Flash insight on voting chicanery

[Kelliezgirl]

Replacing popular voting with judges wouldn't eliminate bias for sure. But it would ensure that people voting know something about writing rather than just rewarding content as most readers seem to do.



I think there is such intent, although it's not necessarily personal favoritism.

First, facts not in evidence. There are more than a few stories I've read based on one of the writers here who allegedly "know something about writing" that turned out to be terrible.

Finding competent judges is a whole new hornets nest...which leads right into the second issue you raised.
You would have all kinds of accusations of favoritism.

 

[MiaBabe23]

Variations on these threads just keep appearing and appearing, don’t they…
Never mind that when hundreds, or I presume in fact thousands of votes are being cast that for one disgruntled person to have an impact, they would have to tap tap tap all day long on your one story to downvote rather than focus on their own story…
If your mortal literary enemy is devoting their day to that - you’re sadly not getting the votes to counter it
Bringing us to squarely face Occam’s shaving implement - your story isn’t on that occasion as popular as the other stories. And some readers genuinely dislike your writing
Be you a top tier writer here in terms of votes, or a complete newbie, stop grumbling about people’s opinions as if you’re entitled to ‘win’, and remember being humble is part of improving

 

[TheLobster]

Never mind that when hundreds, or I presume in fact thousands of votes are being cast that for one disgruntled person to have an impact, they would have to tap tap tap all day long on your one story to downvote rather than focus on their own story…

You may think that, but it's not how the math works out. The scoring system combined with tight competition in contest makes even a single low vote extremely powerful in terms of its impact. When we're talking about the rating interval of 4.8 and higher, it takes dozens of 5* to counteract a small handful of malicious 1* and 2*. Those low votes have vastly disproportionate impact on the story placement, and the fact is that you do not need to spam them in large quantities which makes them all the more difficult to recognize and sweep.

 

[JGittes]

You may think that, but it's not how the math works out. The scoring system combined with tight competition in contest makes even a single low vote extremely powerful in terms of its impact. When we're talking about the rating interval of 4.8 and higher, it takes dozens of 5* to counteract a small handful of malicious 1* and 2*. Those low votes have vastly disproportionate impact on the story placement, and the fact you do not need to, in fact, spam them in large quantities makes them all the more difficult to recognize and sweep.

Further to your comment.

Even with 800 votes, a 4.9 score (the level we're all talking about for contest contenders), two 1* votes will lower the score by 0.01.

In the great scheme of things, scores on our stories don't mean that much. But for most of us amateurs, it's the only 'payment' we get. We'd all be upset if we put in a full day's work and our boss stiffed us on pay.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Further to your comment.

Even with 800 votes, a 4.9 score (the level we're all talking about for contest contenders), two 1* votes will lower the score by 0.01.

In the great scheme of things, scores on our stories don't mean that much. But for most of us amateurs, it's the only 'payment' we get. We'd all be upset if we put in a full day's work and our boss stiffed us on pay.

If you are looking at this like a job in any way, shape, or form, you are doing yourself a terrible disservice.

 

[yowser]

If you are looking at this like a job in any way, shape, or form, you are doing yourself a terrible disservice.

I think this is more just a comment that voting and scores are the only 'currency' here. And that's why there is so much attention and angst about this.

 

[Britva415]

Further to your comment.

Even with 800 votes, a 4.9 score (the level we're all talking about for contest contenders), two 1* votes will lower the score by 0.01.

In the great scheme of things, scores on our stories don't mean that much. But for most of us amateurs, it's the only 'payment' we get. We'd all be upset if we put in a full day's work and our boss stiffed us on pay.

Well... 2 bosses out of 800. In this example.

 

[LargoKitt]

You need to show that your bold new idea gives the site something the owners are likely to want, and I don't think you've tried particularly hard.

Gosh, who knew that I had stepped into the chambers of the Cambridge debating society? I will fall back on my ignorance. I do believe I saw a post touting a $1500 prize. Emily kindly corrected me and pointed out that the small number might be equally problematical. In the current Halloween contest, there are 300 entries and "winners will be revealed on Oct 30." Winners are supposedly tallied by getting the most readers' votes. (I assume 'votes' means the usual 1-5 votes. Again ignorant. I assume this includes the initial 25+ voters the story had to have in order to be in the contest. Logically, that means 26 people could have hated the story and 'one-bombed' it, but it would still enter the contest. With 300 stories I assume that some stories will hardly be read at all. Again logically, the submitters with lots of existing followers, or some way of campaigning, would get enough votes to win something.

 

[LargoKitt]

If that were true people like @lovecraft68 would win every contest he enters. It doesn't seem to work that way.
I've got a small following but it doesn't take 10,000 views for me to get 25 votes.
My entry in the music challenge got 270 votes on 8100 views. So 1 per 30 views, nothing crazy about that. My entry in the current contest is averaging 1 per 60.

That does mean for the current contest you need to get more than 1500 views in the small time window from when you post it to contest close. I have a batch of followers and two decades of posts here, but I have stories that take weeks to get a couple thousand views, much less votes.

 

[LargoKitt]

have 181 followers today. I believe I had less than 100 when I placed third in the 2026 Valentine’s contest. What you claim is just not born out by the facts.

That's what they call 'anecdotal' rather than statistical. But I could be very wrong if there are lots of 'one hit wonders' winning contests. And it would be interesting to know why your story was very popular with voters that time.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

That does mean for the current contest you need to get more than 1500 views in the small time window from when you post it to contest close. I have a batch of followers and two decades of posts here, but I have stories that take weeks to get a couple thousand views, much less votes.

That has more to do with categories and story descriptions than followers. I've only got 100 more followers than you, a drop in the bucket all things considered. It has never taken me weeks to get 25 votes or a few thousand views. (For original works, later installments in a series is a different matter, and not relevant to contests anyway, since you can't enter them).

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Gosh, who knew that I had stepped into the chambers of the Cambridge debating society? I will fall back on my ignorance. I do believe I saw a post touting a $1500 prize. Emily kindly corrected me and pointed out that the small number might be equally problematical. In the current Halloween contest, there are 300 entries and "winners will be revealed on Oct 30." Winners are supposedly tallied by getting the most readers' votes. (I assume 'votes' means the usual 1-5 votes. Again ignorant. I assume this includes the initial 25+ voters the story had to have in order to be in the contest. Logically, that means 26 people could have hated the story and 'one-bombed' it, but it would still enter the contest. With 300 stories I assume that some stories will hardly be read at all. Again logically, the submitters with lots of existing followers, or some way of campaigning, would get enough votes to win something.

It isn't total number of votes, it's your average score.

 

[EmilyMiller]

That's what they call 'anecdotal' rather than statistical. But I could be very wrong if there are lots of 'one hit wonders' winning contests. And it would be interesting to know why your story was very popular with voters that time.

You’ve had way more than anecdotal provided to you. And - at the risk of being impolite - maybe it’s you who is being anecdotal based on your own experiences.

Lots of people placing in recent comps have had very few followers. It’s a fact.

Winners are supposedly tallied by getting the most readers' votes.

No. The highest rating. A story with 25 votes and a rating of 4.95 beats one with 2,500 votes and a rating of 4.94. This was pointed out right at the start of the thread.

 

[anthrodisiac]

That's what they call 'anecdotal' rather than statistical. But I could be very wrong if there are lots of 'one hit wonders' winning contests. And it would be interesting to know why your story was very popular with voters that time.

Probably because it was really damn good.

 

[BeechLeaf]

Yeah, probably because it was by FrancesScott.

 

[LargoKitt]

1st Place Anthrodisiac 165 followers
2nd Place. DaveIsaacs1031 327 followers
3rd Place. WittyUserName. 2029 followers

Only one of the winners has a significant number of followers

I did say 'following' not 'followers'. I assume that sometimes people formally become our followers because we are less visible, but they happen on a story they like and might want to see another some day. Might favorite the story for a similr reason. Other writers are prolific and popular. That probably means they are pretty good at turning a tale too.

 

[LargoKitt]

No. The highest rating. A story with 25 votes and a rating of 4.95 beats one with 2,500 votes and a rating of 4.94. This was pointed out right at the start of the thread.

Am I wrong that the FAQ says the winner is the one that gets the most votes not the 'highest score'?

 

[LargoKitt]

Probably because it was really damn good.

I'd like to believe that.

 

[Voboy]

Gosh, who knew that I had stepped into the chambers of the Cambridge debating society?

It's an internet forum.

The way it works is that you post your opinion publicly, which then opens it up to other peoples' opinions.

If you're bitter about what I've written in response to your posts, there are several possible reasons for that. Most of them don't reflect well on your opinions, but honestly there are MANY respondents here who are taking your ideas to task. Maybe it'd be best, at this point, for you to sit back, relax, and reflect on what you're trying to say. Because it is demonstrably not having your desired effect.

I will fall back on my ignorance.

It's usually best to fix that before you post, not after.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'd like to believe that.

So go read it... decide for yourself.
Find a single contest winning story that you can honestly say "this is shit" about.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There is one thing I find very ironic in all of this. The O.P. posted a hypothesis that popularity and followers determine winners, and it was shot down by almost everyone, quite rightfully so.
But aside from his obviously flawed hypothesis and my own hypothesis that's being effectively ignored, I am yet to see anyone dare to post any alternative?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Am I wrong that the FAQ says the winner is the one that gets the most votes not the 'highest score'?

Yeah - you’re wrong. Totally wrong. It’s highest rating not most votes. /

 

[Voboy]

But aside from his obviously flawed hypothesis and my own hypothesis that's being effectively ignored, I am yet to see anyone dare to post any alternative?

Many of us have already hypothesized about all this before, and aren't interested in doing so yet again, perhaps?

I can only speak for myself. I am not interested in hypothesizing about scoring. It's allllllll been said before.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

There is one thing I find very ironic in all of this. The O.P. posted a hypothesis that popularity and followers determine winners, and it was shot down by almost everyone, quite rightfully so.
But aside from his obviously flawed hypothesis and my own hypothesis that's being effectively ignored, I am yet to see anyone dare to post any alternative?

I'd say that if you are accusing Laurel of fixing the contests, the burden is on you to show proof.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I did say 'following' not 'followers'. I assume that sometimes people formally become our followers because we are less visible, but they happen on a story they like and might want to see another some day. Might favorite the story for a similr reason. Other writers are prolific and popular. That probably means they are pretty good at turning a tale too.

So, how does one measure this "following" or "popularity"?
Keeping in mind that the AH is a tiny fraction of this site.
Being "popular" (whatever that means) on the AH doesn't mean a thing on the story side. Most readers probably don't even know the AH exists.