For the Aussies on here

[graceanne]

I was reading something, somewhere, recently, similar to this, but not quite so . . .well, ew. It was saying that what worked was for the couple to sit down and decide who has the control, and where. One of the couples they were spotlighting had a working dad, stay at home mom. The dad was in charge of his career and the finances. The mom was in charge of the house and the shopping and all that stuff. It was working because she'd stopped nagging him about his job and he'd stopped nagging her about the house, so they were happier. I think this'd work the other way, though. You know, with the stay at home dad and the working mom. The entire idea was to decide who was in charge, where, to get rid of the power struggles.

 

[Netzach]

I was reading something, somewhere, recently, similar to this, but not quite so . . .well, ew. It was saying that what worked was for the couple to sit down and decide who has the control, and where. One of the couples they were spotlighting had a working dad, stay at home mom. The dad was in charge of his career and the finances. The mom was in charge of the house and the shopping and all that stuff. It was working because she'd stopped nagging him about his job and he'd stopped nagging her about the house, so they were happier. I think this'd work the other way, though. You know, with the stay at home dad and the working mom. The entire idea was to decide who was in charge, where, to get rid of the power struggles.

This makes tons of sense for most people, I think. It's entirely plausible that it's conducive to marital harmony if everyone's more aware of when they're out of their area of expertise.

 

[graceanne]

This makes tons of sense for most people, I think. It's entirely plausible that it's conducive to marital harmony if everyone's more aware of when they're out of their area of expertise.

Yep. Plus it allows for different types of people. It doesn't say that you SHOULD be good at x, y, z. It says know your area's, and make an agreement to stay in your area of expertise.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Sure. I think you protest too much. Perv.

:chuckles: You semi quoted Shakespeare ! You know the stuff you hate !

Classic Miss Grace

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Rebecca, Bandit, this was the English programme redubbed!!! (Or the other way round!!) I couldnt believe the mechanic who refused to let his wife work but then had to take on a 'bouncing' job in the evening to make ends meet!!! She enjoyed her job; it was a good one, where is the sense in that?? Still at least she was available to bring him bacon butties at midnight!!!

Nooooooo they must have edited all that out before broadcast here . It's probably the same couple . He was a BIG guy , shaved head. She had black hair with fire engine red streaks in it, does that sound familiar subtleone ?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I would so rather have to get my own bacon butties whatever the hell those are than take on a second job to keep the little woman at home, but whatever floats your boat.

Raising ones kids in this manner is not only reprehensible, I'm dying to see how those kids then interact with dates 10 years later. What fuels their imaginations. What kinks they have. Because you know, a lot of people are going to invert and pervert and twist whatever their parents leave as an impression.

I'm banking on a pretty femdom generation from all the backlash.

Also, to me there's a whole ocean between "this is what works for me" (your average lit femsub) and "this is how to have a happy marriage girls"

the latter is like, barf.

Netz she only a baby , two years old. It appeared as if the mother was lecturing her. I feel challenged making a general judgement based on a minutes footage as representation of their life especially so as I have had a reasonable amount of experience directly with media/spin doctors over the years. To classify me as cynical would be an understatement.

There was a distinct 'tone' to it however and I strongly suspect you are right.

The mother herself was young and looked rather down trodden generally. She didn't exude the joie de vivre one might more likely expect to see in a young wife with a new baby whom was apparently content with the mindful choices she had made She looked kind of grey.

Who knows .......

 

[graceanne]

:chuckles: You semi quoted Shakespeare ! You know the stuff you hate !

Classic Miss Grace

Um, I said I hated READING Shakespeare. I didn't say I hated watching it. Shakespeare wrote plays, not novels. Oh, and I hate romeo and juliet - doesn't matter if I'm seeing it or reading it.

 

[JMohegan]

My thanks to Bandit for this thread and to Rebecca for posting the transcript. I find this sort of thing fascinating.

I agree with Rebecca's observation that sound bites can be misleading, and that editing can distort. Keeping this in mind, my reaction to the characters in the piece (as presented) are as follows.

I have the strong impression that these women are square pegs trying to force themselves into a round hole. Good god - if you have to be blindfolded in order to refrain from bitching at your husband in the car, how long can this charade really be sustained?

And about the children....

PETER HARVEY: Welcome to the world of the surrendered wife — sisters who have come out of the kitchen but now they're going back in. Here in America's Midwest, women like Crystal and her two-year-old daughter Catherine, who's already in training.

CRYSTAL: We talk a lot about Jesse's, 'He's your daddy and you're supposed to obey your daddy and we want to honour him and we want to respect him'. And just talking about why we are cleaning. We want to have a clean house so that we can honour Daddy because Daddy likes the house to be clean. Put it right there. Do you know why we're making the fruit pizza? We're making it for Daddy. We want to please him. We want to do special things for him. Daddy's the king of our home, isn't he? You said that you wanted me to do the ironing.

I was born at the end of the 50's. My mother was a stay-at-home mom who did all of the cooking, cleaning, etc., and deferred to my father in many ways.

But never was I taught to respect him more than her. Nor did I ever have the impression that their respect for one another was anything other than 100% mutual and on par.

In all honesty, if I had grown up in a home like Crystal's I am certain that I would have turned out to be a totally insufferable human being. The pervasive sense of entitlement would have been toxic indeed.

I was reading something, somewhere, recently, similar to this, but not quite so . . .well, ew. It was saying that what worked was for the couple to sit down and decide who has the control, and where. One of the couples they were spotlighting had a working dad, stay at home mom. The dad was in charge of his career and the finances. The mom was in charge of the house and the shopping and all that stuff. It was working because she'd stopped nagging him about his job and he'd stopped nagging her about the house, so they were happier. I think this'd work the other way, though. You know, with the stay at home dad and the working mom. The entire idea was to decide who was in charge, where, to get rid of the power struggles.

This concept makes enormous sense to me. The last sentence in particular is brilliant.

However, at the risk of stating the obvious I'll note that a state of financial dependence is a very risky place to be, and the divorce rate in this country is sobering. No one every thinks it could happen to them.... but half end up being wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect and all individuals take risks. But as a general societal practice, it is my hope that most stay-at-home moms & dads will enter into the arrangement educated and able to support themselves financially, and maintain some measure of protection for their own financial welfare throughout the course of the years in which they are unemployed.

 

[Netzach]

With all due respect, I think most married couples approach finances from a totally egalitarian perspective of WTF, and debt, like we do

 

[MadamaMiniTopic]

My thanks to Bandit for this thread and to Rebecca for posting the transcript. I find this sort of thing fascinating.

My pleasure to have done so . I was thrilled I was able to get the transcripts within minutes of the segment ending , reward in itself.

I have the strong impression that these women are square pegs trying to force themselves into a round hole. Good god - if you have to be blindfolded in order to refrain from bitching at your husband in the car, how long can this charade really be sustained?

Now that was funny from my perspective in as much as she was not compliant at all. She was sitting in the passenger seat trying to get a 'feel' for what direction he was turning the car and bitching at him anyway. PLUS she wanted to pick the color of the blindfold. He shot her a look and I swear I cringed . In a different context omg :chuckles:

@}-}rebecca----

 

[intothewoods]

With all due respect, I think most married couples approach finances from a totally egalitarian perspective of WTF, and debt, like we do

Actually, I was going to agree with JMohegan, Netz. You'd be surprised how many women, and some men, quit their jobs to become stay at home mothers without thinking about all of the consequences.

That's not to say being a stay at home mom is wrong (I did it for a couple of years), but you do have to think about what it means - how easy or difficult will it be for you to return to the workplace, what will happen if, god forbid, you split up.

 

[JMohegan]

With all due respect, I think most married couples approach finances from a totally egalitarian perspective of WTF, and debt, like we do

I hope that's true, and stays true.

Now that was funny from my perspective in as much as she was not compliant at all. She was sitting in the passenger seat trying to get a 'feel' for what direction he was turning the car and bitching at him anyway. PLUS she wanted to pick the color of the blindfold. He shot her a look and I swear I cringed . In a different context omg :chuckles:

@}-}rebecca----

"Madama"? Is this a permanent change, à la andraste?

The point I was trying to make was that the stated strategy itself seems ridiculous and quite revealing as to the personalities and true needs of the participants.

I don't have the benefit of the visual, but from the transcript I agree - it sounds as if the attempt to implement the strategy was no less absurd!

Actually, I was going to agree with JMohegan, Netz. You'd be surprised how many women, and some men, quit their jobs to become stay at home mothers without thinking about all of the consequences.

The long term costs in terms of lost pension, interrupted career track etc., are huge - as I'm sure you know.

Having the mom stay at home was the choice for many marriages, including mine. So I understand that the benefits are enormous as well.

But the economist in me is forced to point out that a truly egalitarian arrangement of this type would involve some sort of actual compensation paid by the employed parent to the unemployed parent - to be deposited into the unemployed parent's individual bank account.

How often does something like that happen? Rarely indeed.

 

[MadamaMiniTopic]

"Madama"? Is this a permanent change.

Not at all . Lit has been ornery since Manu made some adjustments in the afternoon . It will not allow me to post as @}-}rebecca----. I do not remain a minority as far as this difficulty is concerned. Madama is an alt usually employed on my main thread to introduce new topics . No deception or nefarious motives . I do so like to be creative, ohhh and before I forget ページの人気度を反映したランキングを行なう

 

[subtleone]

Nooooooo they must have edited all that out before broadcast here . It's probably the same couple . He was a BIG guy , shaved head. She had black hair with fire engine red streaks in it, does that sound familiar subtleone ?

Yes that was the couple Rebecca - the UK plug for the programme is here if you are interested. and there are some after show commentshere that you may also find amusing; enjoy

 

[neonflux]

There are two things that disturb me here about the transcript:

1) The absolute bias - expressed so flippantly - of the filmmakers;

2) The view of the adherants that this is THE solution for ALL marriages (I am going to take a leap here and also assume that many of its practitioners are not particularly LGBT friendly), regardless of the internal wiring of the individuals involved.

It was pretty painful reading of the poor woman who had to be blindfolded so as not to "nag" her husband about his choice of routes while driving.

graceanne I was reading something, somewhere, recently, similar to this, but not quite so . . .well, ew. It was saying that what worked was for the couple to sit down and decide who has the control, and where. One of the couples they were spotlighting had a working dad, stay at home mom. The dad was in charge of his career and the finances. The mom was in charge of the house and the shopping and all that stuff. It was working because she'd stopped nagging him about his job and he'd stopped nagging her about the house, so they were happier. I think this'd work the other way, though. You know, with the stay at home dad and the working mom. The entire idea was to decide who was in charge, where, to get rid of the power struggles.

I ditto what others have said about this being an excellent solution - it's actually very Japanese, btw. Women have complete control over the household traditionally - so much so that even when I was living there (mid-70's), if a man wanted to withdraw money from the family savings, the bank would first call the wife to get her OK, LOL. What women have to contend with is their mothers-in-law! That is, until the older women "hand down the spoon." (There's actually a ceremony signifying the transfer of power...)

Thank you, Miss Rebecca, for the transcript.
Neon

 

[Netzach]

I hope that's true, and stays true.

NOOOOO please - hope that we get our act together, hire a pro, do something, anything. I'm just making a funny about the general cluelessness about money that people have. Which leads them to make bad decisions, a la the ones intothewoods alluded to.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Yes that was the couple Rebecca - the UK plug for the programme is here if you are interested. and there are some after show commentshere that you may also find amusing; enjoy

ooh thank you subtleone and you were 100% correct that is one of the couples portrayed in the program. Great that you went to the effort .

Now as for the comments portion........

"Let him arrange things (and see the consequences when he doesn't)- let him not have any clean clothes until he takes some responsbility too to deal with them. yes it will be tough at first and standards will drop until he realsies the benefit of it being done!"

death wish ....... :chuckles:

"But the more i think about that show the more I weant to be a surended Husband . The thought of having my wife enjoy that sort of power , my main reason in the relationship to make the other person happy , And yes she would be making me happy by letting me."

Natural submissive

"Why one has to be the master for something to work is beyond me. Women have fought hard for their place in this country and I will be teaching my daughters and sons the self-respect they deserve in equal measure."

Prue Gowards deluded love child

"I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I HAVE JUST SEEN!!! THEY ARE EITHER ON TRIPLE DOSE OF PROSAC OR HAVE A SCREW LOOSE. FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WIFE BEING DOMINEERING AND NAGGING ETC., BUT NEITHER DO I AGREE WITH HER BEING A SUBMISSIVE DOORMAT. SECONDLY, NO HUSBAND/WIFE/PARTNER SHOULD TELL SOMEONE WHAT TO EAT!!!! NEVER MIND WHAT TO WEAR."
WHY SHOULD ONE OF THE COUPLE BE THE BOSS?

Types in caps : shudders : need I say more

 

[JMohegan]

NOOOOO please - hope that we get our act together, hire a pro, do something, anything. I'm just making a funny about the general cluelessness about money that people have. Which leads them to make bad decisions, a la the ones intothewoods alluded to.

Doh! Sorry, I misunderstood.

Because of the specific education/career path that I chose, this isn't really one of my own areas of cluelessness. In general, however, I find it appalling that our society doesn't seem to place a high priority on Personal Finance as a critical topic of instruction.

If it were up to me, a course on the basics (i.e., budgeting, saving for retirement, insurance issues, auto buy vs. lease, etc.) would be a required course in every high school in this country.

 

[CutieMouse]

If it were up to me, a course on the basics (i.e., budgeting, saving for retirement, insurance issues, auto buy vs. lease, etc.) would be a required course in every high school in this country.

I may go one step further, and give each of the children appointments with a financial planner as presents upon graduating from high school, each college degree, and a wedding present. LOL

 

[intothewoods]

I may go one step further, and give each of the children appointments with a financial planner as presents upon graduating from high school, each college degree, and a wedding present. LOL

That's such a good idea - especially a high school graduation gift! I didn't have my own credit card when I went to college, but these days it's so easy to get one!

 

[subtleone]

Doh! Sorry, I misunderstood.

Because of the specific education/career path that I chose, this isn't really one of my own areas of cluelessness. In general, however, I find it appalling that our society doesn't seem to place a high priority on Personal Finance as a critical topic of instruction.

If it were up to me, a course on the basics (i.e., budgeting, saving for retirement, insurance issues, auto buy vs. lease, etc.) would be a required course in every high school in this country.

When I was at school, eons ago (in the UK). It was part of the senior years curriculum along with how to book a holiday and why it is not good etiquette to write cheques in red ink!

 

[JMohegan]

I may go one step further, and give each of the children appointments with a financial planner as presents upon graduating from high school, each college degree, and a wedding present. LOL

That's a great idea, you know. No lol'ing about it!

Random tip for anyone who needs it: Pick a financial planner who is not associated with an investment house or other company offering financial products. An independent person who makes a living solely by offering professional advice will be more expensive by the hour, but s/he will be free from the bias that comes with an incentive to sell.

When I was at school, eons ago (in the UK). It was part of the senior years curriculum along with how to book a holiday and why it is not good etiquette to write cheques in red ink!

Ack! The inferiority of American education rears its ugly head once again!

 

[subtleone]

That's a great idea, you know. No lol'ing about it!

Random tip for anyone who needs it: Pick a financial planner who is not associated with an investment house or other company offering financial products. An independent person who makes a living solely by offering professional advice will be more expensive by the hour, but s/he will be free from the bias that comes with an incentive to sell.



Ack! The inferiority of American education rears its ugly head once again!

...but we stink at sports! *laughs*

 

[JMohegan]

...but we stink at sports! *laughs*

Ha, ha! Don't tempt me this way, woman!

 

[Bandit58]

ooh thank you subtleone and you were 100% correct that is one of the couples portrayed in the program. Great that you went to the effort .

Now as for the comments portion........

"Let him arrange things (and see the consequences when he doesn't)- let him not have any clean clothes until he takes some responsbility too to deal with them. yes it will be tough at first and standards will drop until he realsies the benefit of it being done!"

death wish ....... :chuckles:

"But the more i think about that show the more I weant to be a surended Husband . The thought of having my wife enjoy that sort of power , my main reason in the relationship to make the other person happy , And yes she would be making me happy by letting me."

Natural submissive

"Why one has to be the master for something to work is beyond me. Women have fought hard for their place in this country and I will be teaching my daughters and sons the self-respect they deserve in equal measure."

Prue Gowards deluded love child

"I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I HAVE JUST SEEN!!! THEY ARE EITHER ON TRIPLE DOSE OF PROSAC OR HAVE A SCREW LOOSE. FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WIFE BEING DOMINEERING AND NAGGING ETC., BUT NEITHER DO I AGREE WITH HER BEING A SUBMISSIVE DOORMAT. SECONDLY, NO HUSBAND/WIFE/PARTNER SHOULD TELL SOMEONE WHAT TO EAT!!!! NEVER MIND WHAT TO WEAR."
WHY SHOULD ONE OF THE COUPLE BE THE BOSS?

Types in caps : shudders : need I say more

If you're interested here are 100 posts (at time of writing) in reply to a discussion on The Catch-Up, a silly women's discussion show which I don't usually watch but wanted to see if they would say anything about the 60 Minutes show.

http://thecatchup.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=271102

If you only read a few of the posts, you'll see so many misconceptions. Most of them seem to think submissive = doormat, low self esteem, no brain or any opinions of their own. One seemed to think being submissive means we can't handle money

It is about time to stand up and be accounted for. Submissive women don't know how to handle bank accounts, superannuation and other important elements if life. They are blank idiots whose time has long passed. Young women today have to be involved in life as much as are young men. Without it, they will be lost and unable to lead a life. Healthy relationships between partners, in communities and work are established by being assertive, not dependent, whinee little mice, by working together. Submission leads to abuse, power plays by men over women. Abuse can be sexual, physical, emotional, economic, social and spiritual. Too much abuse of women by men already causes problems. Its about time we end this kind of social illness.