For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[dmallord]

I don't understand how you can continue with this pretense. The US is willing to give Article 5 level protections directly from the US and not through NATO, and yet you still think Trump is supporting Putin.

And supporting that level of disrespect in your meme isn't helpful to solving the political issues which created the conflict in the first place.

I also think you need to talk to your parents about what happens when war is allowed to continue unchecked.

Arpy, that's so misguided and how you believe that is a good thing is a bit surprising for a fellow of your high intellect.

Trump isn’t offering “Article 5 protections” if it is just the USA offering something akin to it. Article 5 means all NATO nations defend each other. If Russia attacked Poland or the Baltics, they’d face the U.S., Britain, France, Germany—everyone—at once. That’s why Putin has never dared to test NATO.

What Trump floats instead is the U.S. making one-on-one deals. That’s not Article 5; it’s a knockoff. Instead of 30 allies standing together, America is alone, making it easier for Russia to divide and pressure countries. But in reality, weakening NATO and substituting bilateral promises plays directly into Putin’s strategy, because it fractures collective defense and isolates America.

Trump is so... bad at diplomacy. Those who initially supported his bravado and lunacy are now backpedaling away. When Trump can't and hasn't taken a firm presidential stance that he said he would against Russia, can you blame anyone for not supporting him?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Arpy, that's so misguided and how you believe that is a good thing is a bit surprising for a fellow of your high intellect.

Trump isn’t offering “Article 5 protections” if it is just the USA offering something akin to it. Article 5 means all NATO nations defend each other. If Russia attacked Poland or the Baltics, they’d face the U.S., Britain, France, Germany—everyone—at once. That’s why Putin has never dared to test NATO.

Exactly, except Trump has also said no US boots on the ground, and without US boots on the ground other NATO countries will not put anyone there either. That negates the enture "security guarantees" proposal, becaue with Russia, nothing less than boots on the ground as a security guarantee is realistic. Ukraine has had "security guarantees" before, undet the 1994 Budapest Agreement, and every party involved (except Ukraine) has failed to meet their committments. Trump can sign any piece of paper he likes, but as with the Budapest Memo, it's merey a worthless piece of paper without thse boots n the ground.

Putin has signed numerous agreements with Ukraine in the past, and he has broken every simgle one of them. Why would ANY sane person believe that "this time we'll adhere to the agreeement." Nope, it's US boots n the ground, NATO membership or :fuckoffski, you're talking shit" time. As is already evident, Putin was merely stalling Trump with negotiations. He has no intention of turning up for any meeting with Zelensky. He will stall, prevaricate, make excuses and keep attacking - and, sorry to say, Trump will let him and keep making excuses. Because for whatever reason, Trump has sided with Putin.

The best that can be hoped for is that, transactional as he is, he will sell weapons to NATO for Ukraine to use. Because there will be no "peace agreement." Putin doesn't want one. He wants to defeat Ukraine, pure and simple. Thats it. The only solution is the defeat and collapse of Russia. End of Story.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Russian media report massive lines at gas stations due to a fuel shortage — refineries have partially or completely halted operations after drone attacks. Fuel collapse in Russia: Primorsky Krai — huge queues at gas stations; occupied Crimea — fuel disruptions; Zabaykalsky Krai — gasoline sold by coupons.

Apparently 7 regions now affected but there may be more

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958109271712735515

 

[ll74]

NATO will give security assurances. US boots might be on the ground

 

[Baztrachian]

Why would I go to DC?

Do you understand how impeachment works?

Do you? Because your buddies in the DNC already tried that and failed. TWICE.

 

[Baztrachian]

Exactly, except Trump has also said no US boots on the ground, and without US boots on the ground other NATO countries will not put anyone there either.

Poland might. The Poles are not afraid of the Russians. Not at all.

 

[Baztrachian]

Of course they are and that's exactly why Anduril's products are kicking ass. Or Lockheed-Martins AGM-158 ($150,000).

The only reason the Tomahawk is still in the inventory is because they're already bought and paid for.

The Tomahawk is still one of the deadliest and most accurate cruise missiles out there.

Also, with a +1600km range it puts Moscow in the crosshairs.

 

[icanhelp1]

Of course they are and that's exactly why Anduril's products are kicking ass. Or Lockheed-Martins AGM-158 ($150,000).

The only reason the Tomahawk is still in the inventory is because they're already bought and paid for.

Tomahawks are part of our nuclear triad. Tomahawks can be sea launched, air launched and are deadly accurate, can carry a nuclear payload.. We have the B-2 Spirit, B-1 Lancer and B-52s that can lob 2,000 lb JDAM bombs as well as tomahawks.. The F-35 can carry six 2,000 pounders with full stealth capability.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Senile old man tells irrelevant untrue story about how he made DC safer for a guy's son to a country leader who is fighting our former enemy.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1483092839779944/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

 

[ChloeTzang]

Tomahawks are good but expensive and we won't sell them to Ukraine.

Ukraine now has a cheap alternative they can build themselves in large quantities.

The Chinese have a factory that has the capacity to produce the components for 1,000 cruise missiles/day if running 24/7. Quantity has a quality all of irs own.

 

[Rightguide]

Fuck off with your bullshit. Had Obama and Biden done their jobs in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess.

The only thing Biden did is what democrats luv to do...throw money at it and maybe it will go away!

Let us not forget the contributions to the present Ukrainian war by the Democrats. Bill Clinton disarmed the Ukrainians of their nuclear weapons, Obama stood by while Russia seized Crimea and massed troops on the border, and Joe Biden practically gave Putin a green light by suggesting a ‘minor incursion’ would be tolerated.

 

[ChloeTzang]

ENTIRE Russian Fuel Train ELIMINATED by Drones​

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine GUTS Russia’s Energy Backbone in 3 Weeks...13.5% Capacity GONE​

Ukraine just delivered a devastating blow to Russia’s energy backbone. In only 3 weeks, Ukrainian drone strikes wiped out 13.5% of Russia’s oil refining capacity—crippling supply lines, sparking massive fires, and sending fuel prices soaring. From fuel trains in Zaporizhzhia to the Volgograd refinery, Russia’s logistics are burning. With sanctions delaying repairs, every strike pushes Putin’s war machine closer to collapse. Watch how Ukraine’s campaign is reshaping the battlefield.

And Ukraine is only getting started....

 

[ll74]

Do you? Because your buddies in the DNC already tried that and failed. TWICE.

So you understand impeachment doesn't need me to travel to DC?

 

[Baztrachian]

So you understand impeachment doesn't need me to travel to DC?

Since impeachment ain't happening any time soon what do you propose to do to 'remove' DJT as President?

 

[Baztrachian]

Ukraine GUTS Russia’s Energy Backbone in 3 Weeks...13.5% Capacity GONE​

Ukraine just delivered a devastating blow to Russia’s energy backbone. In only 3 weeks, Ukrainian drone strikes wiped out 13.5% of Russia’s oil refining capacity—crippling supply lines, sparking massive fires, and sending fuel prices soaring. From fuel trains in Zaporizhzhia to the Volgograd refinery, Russia’s logistics are burning. With sanctions delaying repairs, every strike pushes Putin’s war machine closer to collapse. Watch how Ukraine’s campaign is reshaping the battlefield.

And Ukraine is only getting started....

It should be pointed out that Russia's refineries were already hurting due to breakdowns and their inability to secure parts from the West.

 

[ll74]

Since impeachment ain't happening any time soon what do you propose to do to 'remove' DJT as President?

Ok, and yet you understand that I don't need to travel there for impeachment?

Or do you need me to hold your hand as we.discuss the Constitution? I propose removing the President via impeachment.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Arpy, that's so misguided and how you believe that is a good thing is a bit surprising for a fellow of your high intellect.

Trump isn’t offering “Article 5 protections” if it is just the USA offering something akin to it. Article 5 means all NATO nations defend each other. If Russia attacked Poland or the Baltics, they’d face the U.S., Britain, France, Germany—everyone—at once. That’s why Putin has never dared to test NATO.

What Trump floats instead is the U.S. making one-on-one deals. That’s not Article 5; it’s a knockoff. Instead of 30 allies standing together, America is alone, making it easier for Russia to divide and pressure countries. But in reality, weakening NATO and substituting bilateral promises plays directly into Putin’s strategy, because it fractures collective defense and isolates America.

Trump is so... bad at diplomacy. Those who initially supported his bravado and lunacy are now backpedaling away. When Trump can't and hasn't taken a firm presidential stance that he said he would against Russia, can you blame anyone for not supporting him?

I haven’t seen any specific security offer from Trump at this point in time. I’ve heard the term “Article 5 like” guarantees, presumably meaning similar to the Article 5 provisions under NATO, but not the same thing. Other than pledging some form of US support as a “backstop” (the term European leaders are using), Trump is has been vague about exactly what the US is willing to provide. He’s ruled out boots on the ground in past statements, and reiterated that yesterday. I suppose some American personnel in Ukraine is possible, but if so it would be non-combat rolls. Most observers are assuming US would provide air support, air defense systems, logistics and intelligence support. But right now Trump is playing his cards close to the vest.

 

[ll74]

I haven’t seen any specific security offer from Trump at this point in time. I’ve heard the term “Article 5 like” guarantees, presumably meaning similar to the Article 5 provisions under NATO, but not the same thing. Other than pledging some form of US support as a “backstop” (the term European leaders are using), Trump is has been vague about exactly what the US is willing to provide. He’s ruled out boots on the ground in past statements, and reiterated that yesterday. I suppose some American personnel in Ukraine is possible, but if so it would be non-combat rolls. Most observers are assuming US would provide air support, air defense systems, logistics and intelligence support. But right now Trump is playing his cards close to the vest.

If NATO is offering security, then the US is involved.

Interesting sidenote - we are part of NATO

 

[ChloeTzang]

If NATO is offering security, then the US is involved.

Interesting sidenote - we are part of NATO

And without US boots on the ground, any security guarantees are worthless.

Ukraine had security guarantees in 1994. They have not been lived up too.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

If NATO is offering security, then the US is involved.

Interesting sidenote - we are part of NATO

Is NATO offering security? My understanding is that while NATO members such as Germany, France, the UK, Italy, Finland and perhaps some other countries will be providing security, it is not a NATO initiative. I could be wrong though.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

And without US boots on the ground, any security guarantees are worthless.

Ukraine had security guarantees in 1994. They have not been lived up too.

The US is not going to put combat troops in Ukraine.

 

[ll74]

Is NATO offering security?

Yes

My understanding is that while NATO members such as Germany, France, the UK, Italy, Finland and perhaps some other countries will be providing security, it is not a NATO initiative. I could be wrong though.

Yes

 

[ChloeTzang]

The US is not going to put combat troops in Ukraine.

Then there won't be any peace agreement with Russia and Ukraine will provide its own guarantees and build nukes.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Lavrov at least has been very clear. He also wants Russia to be one of Ukraine’s security guarantors. He thinks then the guarantees will be "truly reliable."