GBLT and childhood trauma

[Johnny Mayberry]

So, yeah...listening to the radio yesterday, and I stumble across a 'recovered homosexual'. It got me to thinking about the claim that anything in the GBLT lifestyle is due to childhood abuse, imappropriate upbringing, etc. How much validity do you folks give that idea? I'm thinking some of it is probably true, but I also think it doesn't matter.

Just wondering, is all...

 

[Cigan]

I don't think jack squat of it is true. There has been a lot of research lately that shows that homosexuals are good at many of the things normally associated with the opposite sex (lesbians being better at spacial sense, gay guys being better at language and emotional processing) which implies very directly that the hormonal processes that happen in the womb when these natural skills are developed are skewed towards the opposite gender. And this is awfully consistent research, there isn't a whole lot of variance as I understand it. I think upbringing might send someone who didn't really have an inclination and was naturally right down the middle one way or the other, but those people are very rare in the first place so I'm not all that inclined to apply that concept to the whole community, but rather to individuals, and not that many of them at that.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I don't think jack squat of it is true. There has been a lot of research lately that shows that homosexuals are good at many of the things normally associated with the opposite sex (lesbians being better at spacial sense, gay guys being better at language and emotional processing) which implies very directly that the hormonal processes that happen in the womb when these natural skills are developed are skewed towards the opposite gender. And this is awfully consistent research, there isn't a whole lot of variance as I understand it. I think upbringing might send someone who didn't really have an inclination and was naturally right down the middle one way or the other, but those people are very rare in the first place so I'm not all that inclined to apply that concept to the whole community, but rather to individuals, and not that many of them at that.

On the other hand, very early trauma can rewire someone's brain...

 

[Queersetti]

I don't believe in a single origin theory of homosexuality. For one thing, most such theories ultimately depend on the idea that something "went wrong" with the individual, either biologically or environmentally.

Over all, I believe that most homosexuals are born if not gay, then with a propensity towards being gay, which is in most cases reinforced in very early childhood.

But I don't completely discount the theory that some gays are unequivocally born gay and that rare others may become gay solely through their upbringing.

Those who claim to be "cured" or "recovered" are, in my opinion, making the error of defining an ontological category by behavior. One is not a homosexual because they have sex with another person of their same gender, they have sex with their own gender because they are homosexual.

Refraining from engaging in same sex activities does not make one an "ex-homo" any more than a heterosexual who becomes celibate would become an ex-heterosexual.

 

[glamorilla]

Also to my understanding homosexual children tend to be targeted by predators. It's something they try to exploit. A traumatic childhood experience can result in some sexual disfunction but it won't result in homosexuality.

Personally I think you just need to admit you love sucking cock and stop looking for excuses.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I don't believe in a single origin theory of homosexuality. For one thing, most such theories ultimately depend on the idea that something "went wrong" with the individual, either biologically or environmentally.

as always, setti, you expressed this more eloquently than I could

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I don't believe in a single origin theory of homosexuality. For one thing, most such theories ultimately depend on the idea that something "went wrong" with the individual, either biologically or environmentally.

Over all, I believe that most homosexuals are born if not gay, then with a propensity towards being gay, which is in most cases reinforced in very early childhood.

But I don't completely discount the theory that some gays are unequivocally born gay and that rare others may become gay solely through their upbringing.

Those who claim to be "cured" or "recovered" are, in my opinion, making the error of defining an ontological category by behavior. One is not a homosexual because they have sex with another person of their same gender, they have sex with their own gender because they are homosexual.

Refraining from engaging in same sex activities does not make one an "ex-homo" any more than a heterosexual who becomes celibate would become an ex-heterosexual.

I personally agree with all of this. I was just curious to hear the views of people who actually are homosexual....(also, the BDSM boards have been boring lately!)

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Also to my understanding homosexual children tend to be targeted by predators. It's something they try to exploit. A traumatic childhood experience can result in some sexual disfunction but it won't result in homosexuality.

Personally I think you just need to admit you love sucking cock and stop looking for excuses.

I'm not gay, darn it!!(If I was, I'd be humping legs around here, I'm not subtle in the least!)

Back on subject...I've heard the same thing said about submissive women, that they are abused because they are submissive, and not the other way around. Good point, I had forgotten about that.

 

[Cigan]

Originally posted by Johnny

Back on subject...I've heard the same thing said about submissive women, that they are abused because they are submissive, and not the other way around. Good point, I had forgotten about that. [/B]

Ok you are pulling some really weird theories about sexual behavior out of the hat. Submissives in general come in a very very wide variety, and many of them had very stable home lives. In some cases being submissive allows people who are exceptionally alpha in social situations let go because for a short time they no longer have to deal with the stresses that go along with being alpha. It's a terribly satisfying rest from normal day to day stresses.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Ok you are pulling some really weird theories about sexual behavior out of the hat. Submissives in general come in a very very wide variety, and many of them had very stable home lives. In some cases being submissive allows people who are exceptionally alpha in social situations let go because for a short time they no longer have to deal with the stresses that go along with being alpha. It's a terribly satisfying rest from normal day to day stresses.

I don't think I am pulling anything out of thin air, and I am not claiming that a single source is responsible for all behavior (you should read Stephen Pinker's new book...*shiver*). I agree with your general assessment of submissives, I am simply asking about a 'far end' of the spectrum that you accept the existance of. Hell, I think that a large portion of sobmissive and dominat behavior comes from the same drives. And, I am certainly not making some sort of moral judgment of people's behavior. I've stated before, and I'll say it again, that I am all for any satisfying, concentual, and non-destructive(long explanation...) behavior between adults.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Johnny....subs are actually the ones in control of the relationship...they are the ones who are done too, rather than the ones who do for the most part. Have you ever seen the look of a dom who has just heard the safe word? Subs are generally alpha personalities who enjoy the illusion of being dominated while retaining control.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Johnny....subs are actually the ones in control of the relationship...they are the ones who are done too, rather than the ones who do for the most part. Have you ever seen the look of a dom who has just heard the safe word? Subs are generally alpha personalities who enjoy the illusion of being dominated while retaining control.

That's a whole other topic, and one I cannot agree with you on...although I am sure it is true in many cases of 'bedroom D/s', I know it doesn't apply in many relationships...we call ourselves 'lazy Dom/mes', because we often sit back and accept service.

 

[Cigan]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to side with the delicious one on this. Subs are the ones in control. In more informal submissive dominant contexts this may not always be true, but when you get into formal structured BDSM it is most definately true. I know many people who are alpha in every day life, and in many cases like being alpha in the bedroom, but sometimes need to be completely dominated, just because it is a release to be in such a situation, and then there are the ones who truly understand that the sub in a BDSM relationship is the one in control, they have to be, because if they aren't it ceases to be harmless fun sensual play and moves dangerously close to becoming rape.

 

[Rhys]

Uh yeah. Subs are the ones in control, Johnny. A Dom's control is illusory at best.

 

[Etoile]

And then there are people who are submissive all the time, in all things. I'm one, ownedsubgal is another. I know she has experienced abuse as a result of being submissive; I suppose I have been lucky that I've never been really truly hurt as such.

But as for origin theories, I think it's all a lot of crap because everybody is different. Some people were born gay, some people experienced trauma with the opposite gender (rape, perhaps) and "went gay" in response...it's a whole variety. I think I was born bisexual (I think we are all born bisexual, but that's a different thread) and came to realize that I prefer women and found my gay identity that way. It varies.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

And then there are people who are submissive all the time, in all things. I'm one, ownedsubgal is another. I know she has experienced abuse as a result of being submissive; I suppose I have been lucky that I've never been really truly hurt as such.

But as for origin theories, I think it's all a lot of crap because everybody is different. Some people were born gay, some people experienced trauma with the opposite gender (rape, perhaps) and "went gay" in response...it's a whole variety. I think I was born bisexual (I think we are all born bisexual, but that's a different thread) and came to realize that I prefer women and found my gay identity that way. It varies.

Submissives hold power? Hah, they have the power to leave, but that's a lose-lose proposition.

Anyhoo, back on topic...I know there is a whole spectrum of reasons. I just wanted a couple af views from people who are actually gay.

 

[Cigan]

You are looking at this from the point of view of the dominant somehow being dominant for themselves, you have to remember that in a BDSM relationship the dominant person isn't being a domineering sexual partner just to fufill their fantasies, they are doing it for the love their partner. In a younger more lust driven relationship it's perhaps out of a need to get someone off in just that way. But the dom is the one doing the whipping, the tying up and everything else. The submissive has the power to say NO. Not to leave, not to say fuck you, but to simply say here's the line. You do not get to cross it. There are no ifs, and buts whatifs about the line that the submissive lays down. The line can move over time only if the submissive becomes more comfortable with certain activites. If the dom doesn't sacrifice all actual power to the sub in order to recieve his roleplay power then it is abuse and not a BDSM dom sub relationship.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

You are looking at this from the point of view of the dominant somehow being dominant for themselves, you have to remember that in a BDSM relationship the dominant person isn't being a domineering sexual partner just to fufill their fantasies, they are doing it for the love their partner. In a younger more lust driven relationship it's perhaps out of a need to get someone off in just that way. But the dom is the one doing the whipping, the tying up and everything else. The submissive has the power to say NO. Not to leave, not to say fuck you, but to simply say here's the line. You do not get to cross it. There are no ifs, and buts whatifs about the line that the submissive lays down. The line can move over time only if the submissive becomes more comfortable with certain activites. If the dom doesn't sacrifice all actual power to the sub in order to recieve his roleplay power then it is abuse and not a BDSM dom sub relationship.

You are talking about roleplaying, not the TPE I engage in with my submissive. You are specifically talking about whips and chains, as though they define the relationship. I guess understanding about lifestyles is lacking even from the fellow 'deviants' in the GLBT community

 

[LarzMachine]

So, yeah...listening to the radio yesterday, and I stumble across a 'recovered homosexual'. It got me to thinking about the claim that anything in the GBLT lifestyle is due to childhood abuse, imappropriate upbringing, etc. How much validity do you folks give that idea? I'm thinking some of it is probably true, but I also think it doesn't matter.

Just wondering, is all...

I know some of my sexual "issues" are definitely the result of a fucked up childhood. Dunno about anyone else though.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: GBLT and childhood trauma

I know some of my sexual "issues" are definitely the result of a fucked up childhood. Dunno about anyone else though.

Well, that's all of us, isn't it?

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: Re: Re: GBLT and childhood trauma

Well, that's all of us, isn't it?

Dunno. How many voices you got crawling around in your head?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: Re: Re: GBLT and childhood trauma

Dunno. How many voices you got crawling around in your head?

Just the one..but he seems to have Tourette Syndrome...

 

[Cigan]

You are talking about roleplaying, not the TPE I engage in with my submissive. You are specifically talking about whips and chains, as though they define the relationship. I guess understanding about lifestyles is lacking even from the fellow 'deviants' in the GLBT community

I am not specifically talking about the whips and chains defining the relationship. I am refering to perception as opposed to where the actual power lies in a relationship. I have personally never been comfortable with BDSM that came outside the bedroom. I think this comes from the fact that I am alpha in real life, but very submissive in the bedroom, and when my sig other tries to go dom in normal social situations I smack him upside the head, but you know maybe that's just me. Personally I think that on a social level relationships should go both ways. I personally think if you have enough self respect to be in a healthy relationship you will at least keep some of your power, even if you maintain the illusion of the BDSM roles outside the bedroom, and if the sub can't say "fuck off" at and time and have the dom immediately do that without question, then it's abuse and I have yet to come across anyone who can convince me otherwise. The sub role comes from the fact that they don't use the code word, not that they can't.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I am not specifically talking about the whips and chains defining the relationship. I am refering to perception as opposed to where the actual power lies in a relationship. I have personally never been comfortable with BDSM that came outside the bedroom. I think this comes from the fact that I am alpha in real life, but very submissive in the bedroom, and when my sig other tries to go dom in normal social situations I smack him upside the head, but you know maybe that's just me. Personally I think that on a social level relationships should go both ways. I personally think if you have enough self respect to be in a healthy relationship you will at least keep some of your power, even if you maintain the illusion of the BDSM roles outside the bedroom, and if the sub can't say "fuck off" at and time and have the dom immediately do that without question, then it's abuse and I have yet to come across anyone who can convince me otherwise. The sub role comes from the fact that they don't use the code word, not that they can't.

I'm thinking we'll just have to agree to disagree, or at least do this in a more appropriate thread...you do what works for you, I'll do what works for me, and I'm sure we'll both be happy with the results!