General Response

[twelveoone]

I have no problems with fans, I am one of annaswirls and WickedEve. I have a problem with "fan mentality", where whatever the idol writes is the "greatest thing ever" and "I'll get whoever disagrees"
I have a problem with building a fan base when it gets in the way of real comments and real effort. I have gotten a few comments (and 5's) where I am not sure the person read it.

I have no problem with popular, as long as people realize popular is not the same as great.

As you may have noticed I have quit leaving comments, because a "4" has become as odious as a "1", the people I left "4"'s on, I had respect for - they are off their game. In no way was it meant to imply it was less than "5" left on a lighter piece. I am truly sorry it is seen that way.
Nor will I "bell curve" it as some seem to advocate, as really a 1 or 2 is just a waste of my time, and serves no purpose to the writer, nor do I intend to comment and vote on everything I read, that is a waste of my time and the writers.

I suppose I won't be leaving many comments, as either I'm seeing something that is not there, or saying something that I shouldn't.

I was a fan of YDD, and have not been the same since Christmas. Bless you whoever you were.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I have no problems with fans, I am one of annaswirls and WickedEve. I have a problem with "fan mentality", where whatever the idol writes is the "greatest thing ever" and "I'll get whoever disagrees"
I have a problem with building a fan base when it gets in the way of real comments and real effort. I have gotten a few comments (and 5's) where I am not sure the person read it.

I have no problem with popular, as long as people realize popular is not the same as great.

As you may have noticed I have quit leaving comments, because a "4" has become as odious as a "1", the people I left "4"'s on, I had respect for - they are off their game. In no way was it meant to imply it was less than "5" left on a lighter piece. I am truly sorry it is seen that way.
Nor will I "bell curve" it as some seem to advocate, as really a 1 or 2 is just a waste of my time, and serves no purpose to the writer, nor do I intend to comment and vote on everything I read, that is a waste of my time and the writers.

I suppose I won't be leaving many comments, as either I'm seeing something that is not there, or saying something that I shouldn't.

I was a fan of YDD, and have not been the same since Christmas. Bless you whoever you were.

who has a fan base? does she pay for votes or something? I also know we dont see eye to eye on subjects but I respect your input and criticism on threads as well as poems. So for a country boy thats as curious as cats and crickets...what do you suggest?

 

[Du Lac]

1201 ... good for you... speaking your mind and standing your ground. I am not popular here at Lit in fact I am ignored alot and that is fine with me. As you remember I always value honest kind critical responses. How can I learn without them. Many who do leave comments on my poems know what the poem has gone on through to get to that stage....the editing etc. They have seen the changes and helped me with my blocks or horrid word associations. Are my poems great... not on the scale that many judge on.. but... I will say do you like Wallace Stevens... do you have the right to like him and think he is great or do you have the right to say that you think he sucks?..... I think you do have the right to judge anyway you want. I do not always vote a 5.... I may recommend a poem on the Sunday reviews but I gave it a 3.

Why would I recommend a 3 poem you say:

Well... there may be one stanza in the poem that is outstanding, original and just plain old excellent. The rest maybe average but that one stanza is just great.

I also feel NO ONE has the right to tell me how I should vote. That is a dictatorship.... communism .... and not why I came here. A poem may not be perfect in the grammar or structure but what it said made me cry and touched me in such a way that I was overwhelmed with feeling then YES I will give a 5. It is my choice... hell I can fucking vote for MICKEY MOUSE for president if I want so why can I not vote for a poem that spoke to my soul?

I review poems and I do not get anymore attention because of it. I usually post my poems on my review day on purpose so that this will not be the case. As I told Art I write to write. Yes I want to learn to be a better poet, but I do not post to be a Queen here on Lit.

Wicked and Angeline were some of my favorite poets here on the site. I felt both were fair and handled problems with kindness and intelligence. I no longer feel that is the case here at Lit. I see a darkness falling now with steel bars crashing down around how we can express ourselves. I feel in all honesty the in correct MODERATORS left their positions. Regardless of how I came across at least Angeline and Wicked always answered or acknowledged a response when posted. Rudeness and ridicule seems to be the path now.. or totally ignoring something or someone you do not agree with.

I have one thing to say. The "fluffers" are not leaving. And regardless of how we are treated we will try to comment and vote with kind critical thoughts on another poem. I have never one bombed a poem because it takes at least a 1 to have the guts to post here at Lit... allowing yourself to be open to the destructive ridicule that is tossed upon newbies that walk through the door.

And those are my humble thoughts ....
As usual thank you 1201 for being you!
Du Lac~

I have no problems with fans, I am one of annaswirls and WickedEve. I have a problem with "fan mentality", where whatever the idol writes is the "greatest thing ever" and "I'll get whoever disagrees"
I have a problem with building a fan base when it gets in the way of real comments and real effort. I have gotten a few comments (and 5's) where I am not sure the person read it.

I have no problem with popular, as long as people realize popular is not the same as great.

As you may have noticed I have quit leaving comments, because a "4" has become as odious as a "1", the people I left "4"'s on, I had respect for - they are off their game. In no way was it meant to imply it was less than "5" left on a lighter piece. I am truly sorry it is seen that way.
Nor will I "bell curve" it as some seem to advocate, as really a 1 or 2 is just a waste of my time, and serves no purpose to the writer, nor do I intend to comment and vote on everything I read, that is a waste of my time and the writers.

I suppose I won't be leaving many comments, as either I'm seeing something that is not there, or saying something that I shouldn't.

I was a fan of YDD, and have not been the same since Christmas. Bless you whoever you were.

 

[quietpoet]

I vote for comments!

Does it really matter who is number 1 on the list? If all we did was comment, and the suggestion made was to be real on the comments, not fluff them up, it could be a place of learning and experience. Isn't that why we are here?

who has a fan base? does she pay for votes or something? I also know we dont see eye to eye on subjects but I respect your input and criticism on threads as well as poems. So for a country boy thats as curious as cats and crickets...what do you suggest?

 

[quietpoet]

I would say more, but

DuLac said it all!

John

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Does it really matter who is number 1 on the list? If all we did was comment, and the suggestion made was to be real on the comments, not fluff them up, it could be a place of learning and experience. Isn't that why we are here?

hello john,

I didn't understand why they want to change the way it is, other than the two that want to change it are not on the top list. I will use JenniferC as an example first a new poet comes I like to welcome them with encouraging and inspirational words before the critic hits them with your poem sucks, ther fore they are welcomed and then as they feel comfortable they seek those who can give them proper instruction on poetry writing, which there are a very few qualified, I am not...so I say yeah I like it, or I say nothing at all...

I don't call it fluff, inspiration and encouragement has been my ploy the yang to the yin that tells then to re write it...

 

[quietpoet]

On Fluff

Hi Art,
I refer to fluff only as that comment to a friend, regardless of the quality of the write. I am very much like you in that if I do not like the write, I won't comment or vote. I would rather say nothing than something bad.

Thank you!
John

 

[bluerains]

maybe this event is catalyst

hello john,

I didn't understand why they want to change the way it is, other than the two that want to change it are not on the top list. I will use JenniferC as an example first a new poet comes I like to welcome them with encouraging and inspirational words before the critic hits them with your poem sucks, ther fore they are welcomed and then as they feel comfortable they seek those who can give them proper instruction on poetry writing, which there are a very few qualified, I am not...so I say yeah I like it, or I say nothing at all...

I don't call it fluff, inspiration and encouragement has been my ploy the yang to the yin that tells then to re write it...

to remove the blinders and open the hearts of poets out there to speak out of how they would like to see things be..this site has so much diversity...is why I like it so much..so many unique perspectives...some are fru fru some are wicked ...some are sensual , sexual, torture...whatever floats your boat..so how can one be sitting in judgement of what is a good poem on this site with such diversity...if one wants to be a poet laureate...then they should have only those kinds of ideals to attract those who are the same...I thought this site was about having fun and playing , interacting in pleasing flirtious meetings of like minds and unlike minds souls like rumi, et, dulac,
ange, rf and Jc they all contribute their time and joy to play on this forum to bring a little joy to this world in turmoil...try to grasp the idea of FUN...please...I have often taken myself too serious ...and this was a place I could unwind , laugh and feel free to
role play and laugh at the ways people react...period...when I can't enjoy the beauty of all ideals ...then poetry has truly been hijacked...
and bless you du what a thought provoking essay.....I am sure many will resonate with such ideals...art..1201 you have always made me feel welcome..thank you...and ange..eve...waves shift as the wind blows...be a willow ...in the fray ..luvfromtheblue...

 

[CharleyH]

I have no problems with fans, I am one of annaswirls and WickedEve. I have a problem with "fan mentality", where whatever the idol writes is the "greatest thing ever" and "I'll get whoever disagrees"
I have a problem with building a fan base when it gets in the way of real comments and real effort. I have gotten a few comments (and 5's) where I am not sure the person read it.

I have no problem with popular, as long as people realize popular is not the same as great.

As you may have noticed I have quit leaving comments, because a "4" has become as odious as a "1", the people I left "4"'s on, I had respect for - they are off their game. In no way was it meant to imply it was less than "5" left on a lighter piece. I am truly sorry it is seen that way.
Nor will I "bell curve" it as some seem to advocate, as really a 1 or 2 is just a waste of my time, and serves no purpose to the writer, nor do I intend to comment and vote on everything I read, that is a waste of my time and the writers.

I suppose I won't be leaving many comments, as either I'm seeing something that is not there, or saying something that I shouldn't.

I was a fan of YDD, and have not been the same since Christmas. Bless you whoever you were.

You and I disagree on "Fans" and you should never have a problem with them.

I believe if you leave a 1 or 2 to someone you are familiar with, then certainly, you should give a private feedback, others may be to egoistic and offended, especially newbies. I personally, don't think anything deserves a one.

If you read a poem, then why should it not be worth your time to comment? Since you wasted time reading it? If I dont like? Move on.

What is a 1 - 5 vote to you? How do you scale poems? Do you seem to believe everything you like is what others should? I don't find YDD to be god? Why are you a "fan"?

Well - is that not a fan?

 

[annaswirls]

hello john,

I didn't understand why they want to change the way it is, other than the two that want to change it are not on the top list.

wrong

again

 

[CharleyH]

wrong

again

Homer - me = doh?!! What do you want to get out, Art? Do you think it is fair? CAN'T you let it go? Most imprtantly: what do you suggest?

 

[Liar]

hello john,

I didn't understand why they want to change the way it is, other than the two that want to change it are not on the top list. I will use JenniferC as an example first a new poet comes I like to welcome them with encouraging and inspirational words before the critic hits them with your poem sucks, ther fore they are welcomed and then as they feel comfortable they seek those who can give them proper instruction on poetry writing, which there are a very few qualified, I am not...so I say yeah I like it, or I say nothing at all...

I don't call it fluff, inspiration and encouragement has been my ploy the yang to the yin that tells then to re write it...

They do? Haven't noticed. Please provide me with some examples of this, because the only ones I've seen with that kind of attitude here are bona fide trolls. A bunch of anonymous shitheads and a guy called Trolly. I find all other comments I see to be polite, welcoming and helpful. I'm perpetually stunned to see that some think that comments need to be sugar coated and wrapped in cotton wool to counter that some of us are supposedly mean. Who? When? Where?

 

[bogusbrig]

I have to admit to being a fan of critical comments, though I understand not everyone feels capable of critical analysis but it is possible to say something isn't working for you without fully being able to articulate why and that is also a good pointer to a writer.

One just needs the right attitude to critical comment and instead of being hurt by them just have the attitude you will prove you can do the deal in your next poem. I'm guilty of enjoying having my ego stroked but I have to admit to putting more value in critical comments. I've had a few from 1201 and it just gives me the attitude 'I'll show the bastard what I can do next time!'. There is nothing like a little creative competitiveness with a poet whose work you admire to improve your own.

If this site gets harder edged, I'll certainly be around more, because there will be a reason to be around.

 

[Jennifer C]

When did writing stop being fun? At the end of the day if what you want is a serious place to write, critique and learn then Literotica really isn't that place. It's an adult erotic website. People come here to read and wank simple as that.

Lit is not poetry based and never really has been. This forum has serious threads for people who want to read, write and learn and some lighter threads for poeple who want to write just for the pleasure of it.

The Toplist is crap I will agree, I have been on it many times and I freely admit that I shouldn't of been, but I didn't put myself on it!

People will vote how they want to and that is their right. Personally I say scrap the voting and scrap the Toplist, then people can just get on with what they came here to do, read, write and enjoy doing it.

If you want something more serious find another site, or start more serious threads, turn voting off on your poems etc..

The constant bitching and moaning is what's turning this site into a joke and making it hard to enjoy being a part off.

Live and let live, write and let write.

Also a vast amount of votes don't even come from fellow writers they come from the people that just visit the site to read and don't have a clue about how the voting works.

There i've said my piece.

 

[Liar]

Lit is not poetry based and never really has been.

THat's why I write poetry here. If I get too high brow about it and feel that I might be walking around with my head up my ass, I can say to myself "Dude, cut it out, this is a porn site."

 

[Jennifer C]

THat's why I write poetry here. If I get too high brow about it and feel that I might be walking around with my head up my ass, I can say to myself "Dude, cut it out, this is a porn site."

LMAO

I couldn't agree more, the vast majority of readers come here to read something sexy and have a wank!

 

[twelveoone]

You and I disagree on "Fans" and you should never have a problem with them.

I believe if you leave a 1 or 2 to someone you are familiar with, then certainly, you should give a private feedback, others may be to egoistic and offended, especially newbies. I personally, don't think anything deserves a one.

If you read a poem, then why should it not be worth your time to comment? Since you wasted time reading it? If I dont like? Move on.

What is a 1 - 5 vote to you? How do you scale poems? Do you seem to believe everything you like is what others should? I don't find YDD to be god? Why are you a "fan"?

Well - is that not a fan?

Do you seem to believe everything you like is what others should?

No, I do not fall into the trap, unlike alot. I am not a "poetry avenger", or a crusader. That is the "fan mentality" - let's go vote down the top list, let's show the non-believers the error of their ways, as was done to me, more than once. If I make an error, you can show me, either way, on mine or as a comment on yours.
And I am an easy sell - but not for bullshit

YDD left the comments that had insight, the core. As for you, you seem to not be able to read well, but able top say alot. I find little of it of value, or funny; mostly noise of the worst sort.

I do move on.
Gresham's Law

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I am not a "poetry avenger", or a crusader. That is the "fan mentality" - let's go vote down the top list, let's show the non-believers the error of their ways

For the record, 1201, I said that on "the new number one" thread to you personally, and I challenged you to vote the way you truly feel - not how I feel - and see what happens. There is a very big difference.

 

[duckiesmut]

To Jennifer C's comments on this thread:


Not to be too incredibly blunt, but who are you to say whether or not this forum can be a place for serious critique and discussion? Yes, there has been rampant sexual teasing (which has usually been pretty damned funny, thanks in large part to Eve ), but I know I'm not the only one who uses this forum and this site as more than a place to "read and wank simple as that".

And yes, this is a porn site that is not poetry-based. Despite that, there are a number of poets here who I read *because* their poetry isn't for the sole purpose of ''wanking''. I keep using quotation marks because I hate that word. That, however, is of no importance.

Don't attempt to limit or shortchange what is much more than just a place to get off and have a few giggles. Doing so would be a violation of your much-adored freedom of speech. I don't begrudge you or anyone their giggles and fun, but neither do I think it's your place to judge those who take writing more seriously.

 

[sandspike]

I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C
Lit is not poetry based and never really has been.

THat's why I write poetry here. If I get too high brow about it and feel that I might be walking around with my head up my ass, I can say to myself "Dude, cut it out, this is a porn site."
__________________
Liar's lair guarded by <--- Blip, the Yellow Ball of Fury.

I had visited this site several times before I knew it had poetry on it.
What I like is the various forms I've read over the years. Watching
good and bad poets come and go. Throwing my 2 cents in w/o
expecting much. After all, we write on the back page of a porn site.
For the most part we write for each other. Some people need a click
to make them clack, some of us just need to see it in print. Never
forget this is a porn site and not the Times or something.

 

[Jennifer C]

To Jennifer C's comments on this thread:


Not to be too incredibly blunt, but who are you to say whether or not this forum can be a place for serious critique and discussion? Yes, there has been rampant sexual teasing (which has usually been pretty damned funny, thanks in large part to Eve ), but I know I'm not the only one who uses this forum and this site as more than a place to "read and wank simple as that".

And yes, this is a porn site that is not poetry-based. Despite that, there are a number of poets here who I read *because* their poetry isn't for the sole purpose of ''wanking''. I keep using quotation marks because I hate that word. That, however, is of no importance.

Don't attempt to limit or shortchange what is much more than just a place to get off and have a few giggles. Doing so would be a violation of your much-adored freedom of speech. I don't begrudge you or anyone their giggles and fun, but neither do I think it's your place to judge those who take writing more seriously.

First of all I am not judging anyone! Second of all the 'read and wank' comment was about the majority of people who just visit this site to read, I personally find that the people who read eroitca want to get off on it, which of course is the intention.

Second of all if you read my post again I DO NOT say that serious discussion can't be had simply that this sites intention isn't for serious writers, it's for erotic literature for pleasure.

I also say that there are serious threads for people who want to learn and grow! There is no need to be defensive, my opinion is my opinion, thats why it's called opinion and not fact!

I suggest you read my post again, the soul purpose was to ask the question can writing not be serious and fun at the same time?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I had visited this site several times before I knew it had poetry on it.
What I like is the various forms I've read over the years. Watching
good and bad poets come and go. Throwing my 2 cents in w/o
expecting much. After all, we write on the back page of a porn site.
For the most part we write for each other. Some people need a click
to make them clack, some of us just need to see it in print. Never
forget this is a porn site and not the Times or something.

The Times is not a poetry journal either, though.

Yes, Lit is a porn site, and that's why it is so much fun. I've been a member of invitation-only poetry workshops, of specialised poetry sites, and none was nearly as fun as what we have here, because of the people. But there is one rule for which I stand under any circumstance: whatever you decide to do, do it the best possible way. Lit may be a porn site, but if you're going to write poetry, being in a porn site is no excuse to do it with any less excellence than you would at a different place.

 

[duckiesmut]

smiling...

This morning, I have tripped over a flat iron, neglected to rinse the conditioner from my hair before stepping out of the shower, and spilled coffee down my (white) shirt.

It's not a good morning to imply that I don't have a decent understanding of the English language.

When did writing stop being fun? At the end of the day if what you want is a serious place to write, critique and learn then Literotica really isn't that place. It's an adult erotic website. People come here to read and wank simple as that.

I suggest you also reread your post and consider its implications.

Now Lauren's, Lauren's I agree with:

But there is one rule for which I stand under any circumstance: whatever you decide to do, do it the best possible way. Lit may be a porn site, but if you're going to write poetry, being in a porn site is no excuse to do it with any less excellence than you would at a different place.

 

[Jennifer C]

The Times is not a poetry journal either, though.

Yes, Lit is a porn site, and that's why it is so much fun. I've been a member of invitation-only poetry workshops, of specialised poetry sites, and none was nearly as fun as what we have here, because of the people. But there is one rule for which I stand under any circumstance: whatever you decide to do, do it the best possible way. Lit may be a porn site, but if you're going to write poetry, being in a porn site is no excuse to do it with any less excellence than you would at a different place.

Yes I would agree with you on that!

This forum is a great place to learn and grow, to write and to critique and it should be fun! I think it's important to remember Lit is a porn site but yes poetry still should be taken seriously but that doesn't have to stop the fun.

Lit is a fun site, I think it's important to remember that!

I also think that Literotica as a website and the Lit forums are different. People visit the site just to read and have no idea how the voting works and don't even know the forums exist.

Then you have the writers that take their work seriously and post in the forums for critique and to share work with friends and have fun.

Many votes come from the people who just know lit as a porn site as opposed to the writers who vote and know what it all means.

Write, write and write, do your best, seek critique if you want it but have fun too.

 

[Liar]

The Times is not a poetry journal either, though.

Yes, Lit is a porn site, and that's why it is so much fun. I've been a member of invitation-only poetry workshops, of specialised poetry sites, and none was nearly as fun as what we have here, because of the people. But there is one rule for which I stand under any circumstance: whatever you decide to do, do it the best possible way. Lit may be a porn site, but if you're going to write poetry, being in a porn site is no excuse to do it with any less excellence than you would at a different place.

Fuckin' A. it's not an excuse to not doing my best, it's a safe guard against hubris.