GM Bailout? Feh!

[DesertPirate]

And it always helps to make sure most of the workers don't reach 40 hr/week and qualify for idiotic things like health insurance

Wal-Mart is still 60% part time I understand, just like always and for that very reason, avoiding benefits. It has only gotten worse since Sam died.

 

[lil_elvis]

Wal-Mart is still 60% part time I understand, just like always and for that very reason, avoiding benefits. It has only gotten worse since Sam died.

But their prices are great!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BOOTA

1. Car sales are down 33%. A bailout wont help GM sell cars to people who cant get loans to buy the cars.

2. If GM closes its doors GM buyers will buy Toyotas and Hondas. Toyota and Honda will hire more people to build more cars. The labor pool will adjust to the market.

 

[cloudy]

But their prices are great!

Capitalism at work.

 

[lil_elvis]

Capitalism at work.

Until you get sick.

 

[rgraham666]

One thing rarely mentioned here, because it can't be measured in money, is the psychological and social effects of the Big Three going under.

What effects will a big increase in unemployment have? How will it affect things like crime rates, domestic violence and incidences of mental illness? What will it cost us to ameliorate these things? What will it cost us if we don't?

How will this affect the political landscape? Will people start looking for simple, violent answers to the problem such as Fascism or Communism? How much more strain will that put on society?

Perhaps a bailout is expensive. But it may be less expensive than the alternatives. Which is cheaper? Shoring up a weak structural support of your house? Or letting the house fall down and rebuilding from scratch?

 

[jeninflorida]

but most products come from China....

But their prices are great!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELVIS

WAL-MART is predatory rather than capitalist. Theyre cutting hours AND scheduling workers shifts so they cant get 2nd jobs. That is, you work 9-6 one day, 6-3 the next day, 12-9 the following day, etc. Its a fact.

WAL-MART is targeting full-time people for termination. That is, management looks for infractions so they can terminate the full-time employee; but rather than fire the person point-blank, they offer the employee a part-time position in lieu of firing.

 

[jeninflorida]

yeah, it would be ugly! or will be?

One thing rarely mentioned here, because it can't be measured in money, is the psychological and social effects of the Big Three going under.

What effects will a big increase in unemployment have? How will it affect things like crime rates, domestic violence and incidences of mental illness? What will it cost us to ameliorate these things? What will it cost us if we don't?

How will this affect the political landscape? Will people start looking for simple, violent answers to the problem such as Fascism or Communism? How much more strain will that put on society?

Perhaps a bailout is expensive. But it may be less expensive than the alternatives. Which is cheaper? Shoring up a weak structural support of your house? Or letting the house fall down and rebuilding from scratch?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB

GM will go under but Cadillac and GMC and CHEVY wont go under. The profitable divisions will be sold to other companies.

JEEP began life as a division of WILLYS-OVERLAND Corp. Then AMERICAN MOTORS bought it. Then CHRYSLER bought it. Someone else will buy JEEP if CHRYSLER dies.

 

[lil_elvis]

but most products come from China....

Don't i know it! We used to do some good business supplying sock manufacturers. Now they produce in Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Philippines and China. Before that it was the neckwear fabric makers and upholstery weavers.

 

[cloudy]

ROB

GM will go under but Cadillac and GMC and CHEVY wont go under. The profitable divisions will be sold to other companies.

JEEP began life as a division of WILLYS-OVERLAND Corp. Then AMERICAN MOTORS bought it. Then CHRYSLER bought it. Someone else will buy JEEP if CHRYSLER dies.

I agree with this.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY

Every industry does it. Yugos come and go, and Cadillacs are forever.

 

[lil_elvis]

ELVIS

WAL-MART is predatory rather than capitalist. Theyre cutting hours AND scheduling workers shifts so they cant get 2nd jobs. That is, you work 9-6 one day, 6-3 the next day, 12-9 the following day, etc. Its a fact.

WAL-MART is targeting full-time people for termination. That is, management looks for infractions so they can terminate the full-time employee; but rather than fire the person point-blank, they offer the employee a part-time position in lieu of firing.

JBJ - you're confusing morality with capitalism. not that I disagree with you, but Wal-Mart is being a true capitalist and just minimizing their costs.

And just to qualify my position, I have my own business and although we don't pay as much as others might, we do include health insurance, dental, life insurance and long term disability for all. We sure as hell don't have to, but it's the RIGHT thing to do. I could be a cold-hearted capitalist and greatly improve profits by eliminating benefits, but that is not our style.

 

[rgraham666]

Capitalism is just a tool. It only does what its user direct it to do.

So any credit or blame for its use falls on the users.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELVIS

I'm not confusing anything.

If WM needs to cut hours, it cuts hours; thats how life is. But scattering the hours across the schedule is predatory and manipulative unless its necessary. Theyre not offering employees extra hours to make extra money. Employees work different shifts every day. It creates childcare and transportation problems, and keeps employees from getting 2nd jobs.

If WM needed floaters to augment different shifts, they could hire floaters. But they dont. They make everyone work a mixed bag.

 

[lil_elvis]

ELVIS

I'm not confusing anything.

If WM needs to cut hours, it cuts hours; thats how life is. But scattering the hours across the schedule is predatory and manipulative unless its necessary. Theyre not offering employees extra hours to make extra money. Employees work different shifts every day. It creates childcare and transportation problems, and keeps employees from getting 2nd jobs.

If WM needed floaters to augment different shifts, they could hire floaters. But they dont. They make everyone work a mixed bag.

i.e. they don't give a shit who they screw as long as the bottom line is good. you want GHWB "kinder, gentler" capitalism

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELVIS

I dont like the Bush people. Check my old posts. If a Bush wanted to crown me king I'd oppose it.

Capitalism is pretty simple stuff: I make widgets and trade them to you for your doo-dads. Anything else isnt capitalism.

 

[lil_elvis]

ELVIS

I dont like the Bush people. Check my old posts. If a Bush wanted to crown me king I'd oppose it.

Capitalism is pretty simple stuff: I make widgets and trade them to you for your doo-dads. Anything else isnt capitalism.

Capitalism isn't just barter

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELVIS

Then I conclude you know shit about capitalism.

 

[lil_elvis]

ELVIS

Then I conclude you know shit about capitalism.

You're absolutely right. I have no idea how my business has avoided bankruptcy for 23 years. I've got to be the luckiest dumb shit on the face of the earth.

How many companies have you been running jimbo?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELVIS

Maybe your company is a government lapdog or your daddy owns it (or father in law). Maybe you trade in esteem or gold stars and live on love.

 

[PhilWill]

Anyone who continues to use the argument that we've bailed out a car company before (Chrysler in '79) and it's worked, please spare us. If it worked so well, why are they back asking for more? I guess it didn't work, huh?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

From what I understand, it's not the labor costs of labor that are killing them, but what they pay in pensions, and the biggest part of pensions is what they pay in ex-employee health care.

And they're cutting that, big time. My inlaws survive on a Ford pension and medical benefits. My FIL is in a wheelchair (MS) and is diabetic, and they've cut their health care considerably this year. And the pension, too. They're not supposed to be able to, but some sort of negotiations with the labor unions have made the cuts possible.

Hard for folks who worked their whole life for one company, to be promised things, and have that rug pulled out from under them. They counted on something they shouldn't have, if you ask me, but it is what it is...

 

[lil_elvis]

ELVIS

Maybe your company is a government lapdog or your daddy owns it (or father in law). Maybe you trade in esteem or gold stars and live on love.

Wrong again. The apparel business is about as cut throat as you can get (at least on the supplier side of things). Last time I checked, my suppliers wanted cash, not love, in payment.

Still didn't answer my question, though.