Good and evil and everything in between

[Netzach]

That reminds me of something I read. Might have been here. But it was about a study that was done where people were brought in and told that even if they didn't finish the study they would still be paid for the study. Then they were told to push a button. A woman in the other room would scream. The person conducting the study would then say 'oh, don't worry. she's fine. do it again.' And the majority of the people in this study WOULD!



That's actually common, and something that confuses me. People who feel guilty for the crimes of the ancestors. Like all the Americans who still feel guilty over enslaving Africans and murdering Native Americans.

Personally, yeah it sucked. I don't feel guilty at all. Anymore than I feel guilty for the way other 'Christians' have treated people. I don't expect apologies from every junkie cause my mom abused me while using, and I wont' apologize because someone said something unkind in the name of Christ.

I might be pissed and/or sympathetic, but I didn't do it and I don't feel guilty.

Guilt is pretty self indulgent anyway. It's a defense emotion rooted in your own ego. Wanting to change things, make them different, ensure it doesn't keep happening is good. Doing something, like speaking up, is actually useful.

I can't do anything about the guys who traded NYC for beads and are no longer with us, but I can do something, in the way of money, advocacy, listening to people about what they need and feel in terms of indigenous people alive now and around my city. I don't really traffic in guilt, but I do admit my ignorance and I do actually care.

 

[graceanne]

Guilt is pretty self indulgent anyway. It's a defense emotion rooted in your own ego. Wanting to change things, make them different, ensure it doesn't keep happening is good. Doing something, like speaking up, is actually useful.

I can't do anything about the guys who traded NYC for beads and are no longer with us, but I can do something, in the way of money, advocacy, listening to people about what they need and feel in terms of indigenous people alive now and around my city. I don't really traffic in guilt, but I do admit my ignorance and I do actually care.

Great post. If we had a thought of the day thread, I'd post this one.

 

[YourCaptor]

Hey comrade, what about the one million south Vietnamese sent to re-education camps where 200,000 or so died. Do you weep for them?

Yes indeed, that is another perfect example of dehumanization.

Concentration camps are incredibly efficient at dehumanizing. By seperating the population you not only prevent and control the spread of ideas, but you also promote indifference by removing the issue from peoples lives.

 

[YourCaptor]

Scale. Intent. Reality. This is what I am talking about. You attempted to equate three scenarios that were not close to equal in any way.

Here's another magical clue about Viet Nam: it was the first war fought were essentially every combatant had fully automatic weapons. Of course there going to be a stupendous amount of rounds fired for every hit. They still didn't know what the hell to do with their weapons aside from spray-and-pray. If you look at the armament we're using now, three-round burst is the most shots put downrange with one trigger-pull, and the training has a VERY strong emphasis on single shots per target. Accuracy rates have sky-rocketed.

Oh, and it also helps that we are still a volunteer force, unlike Viet Nam. Conscripts with fully automatic weapons means lots of waste. The humanity of it is not so much a factor.

I’m not sure why you are interpreting what I wrote as trying to “equate” something, but its obvious at this point that you wont be straying from that line of thinking. So I’ll try a different approach.

Let me ask you this. Was the Vietnam war and attempt by the US to control an area outside of its own borders?

 

[jockdom]

Yes indeed, that is another perfect example of dehumanization.

Concentration camps are incredibly efficient at dehumanizing. By seperating the population you not only prevent and control the spread of ideas, but you also promote indifference by removing the issue from peoples lives.

Invented by the brits, during the boer war.

 

[Homburg]

Invented by the brits, during the boer war.

Invented? Go farther back. Look at what the Romans did to, well, everybody (especially in Britain).

Nothing new under the sun.

 

[jockdom]

Invented? Go farther back. Look at what the Romans did to, well, everybody (especially in Britain).

Nothing new under the sun.

True, but they were the first to call it concentration camps. I agree with you tho it has been going on since man first swung from the trees.(Sorry to offend any creationists out there.)
In the words of the late great Bill Hicks,"Humanity is just a virus with shoes."

 

[WriterDom]

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

ps

Fuck the King!

Patrick Henry

 

[jockdom]

Reservations were not that far removed from concentration camps either, albeit less scinetific but just as effective , not in numbers but in subtugating the native americans.

 

[WriterDom]

What about ghettoes? Once you make people completely dependent on the government isn't that like a reservation of sorts? Yeah you can get out but that gets difficult once you become a part of the legal system.

 

[jockdom]

What about ghettoes? Once you make people completely dependent on the government isn't that like a reservation of sorts? Yeah you can get out but that gets difficult once you become a part of the legal system.

Good point, in britain we call them housing schemes. They are usually built outside towns and cities. Instead of reservation trade stores they have Off lisences(liquor stores), Book makers and a post office where people cash their benefits.

What about gazza city?

 

[WriterDom]

Good point, in britain we call them housing schemes. They are usually built outside towns and cities. Instead of reservation trade stores they have Off lisences(liquor stores), Book makers and a post office where people cash their benefits.

What about gazza city?

Someone didn't think that one through. Creating a Jewish state in the middle of the Arab world? Should have given them New Jersey.

 

[ZRT]

Someone didn't think that one through. Creating a Jewish state in the middle of the Arab world? Should have given them New Jersey.

Modern Israel was already forming prior to World War II.

Besides, Jersey? They're safer where they are now.

 

[Recidiva]

Someone didn't think that one through. Creating a Jewish state in the middle of the Arab world? Should have given them New Jersey.

!!!!!!

!

 

[jockdom]

Modern Israel was already forming prior to World War II.

Besides, Jersey? They're safer where they are now.

Yeah they were in talks with Hitler to throw out the Brittish and waged a Bloody terrorist war.