Have/would you get a permanent marking symbolising commitment to your SO?

[ShyVixen]

Speaking from a hopeless romantic point of view, if I was in a long term relationship with someone, I would love to have a permenant mark. I've often thought that to show my commitment to them, I would like to have a celtic knot tattooed on the inner wrist of my left hand. BUT I would never have a name tattooed on me.

 

[twysted73]

Answer? Yes, I would. Currently caught between a manta ray or an octipuss for that reason.
Leaning towards the latter as it would wrap well around my left arm and the tenticles could lazily grip my upper/forearm.
What I feel others continue to miss about tattoos are, in my mind, their purpose.
They're there to tell a story I think.
Of places traveled, sights seen, people encountered, memories made and comemorated.
They all can't be perfect designs that mesh symbiotically into one another creating this ideal chain of tattoos that say everything about you.
It's rather unrealistic.

Like Ouiji boards and Canadian Bacon.

But please.......nomatter how commemorative you may think it is, I have NEVER met ANYONE who's not lived to regret getting a cartoon character.

I know there are usually exceptions to generalized rules but I've yet to meet him/her who've said "Why no, I absolutely love my Tazmanian Devil tattoo."

Slainte`

 

[Breaker_Morant]

And besides, if I got a tattoo I wouldn't be able to be buried in a Jewish Cemetery. Bummer.

The way it has been explained to me, tattoos, brands, decorative, scars, etc are all the same vis a vis burial in a Jewish cemetary. That said, I've heard rumour of new thought on the matter. *shrug* All I know is that it is something MIS cannot do for the same reason Syd expressed.

The law that makes tattoos taboo for Jews is Leviticus 19:28, which states: “You shall not make gashes in your flesh for the dead, or incise any marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.”

Plus there is the stigma attached to the Holocaust - which makes me think if the Nazis were thinking of Leviticus when they started doing that.. or was it just "happy" (on their part) circumstance.

Note: I'm not anti-semitic.

 

[Anomily]

I'd definitely get a tattoo to symbolize my commitment some day. Not yet, as my current relationship is only 6 months and, as optimistic as I am about our future, it seems just a bit soon. He wants to get my name some day, but I'm trying to talk him out of it. This is not out of a worry about our relationship lasting or not, I just really don't like name tattoos. Symbol tattoos, however, are where it's at. I've got one that I absolutely love and am trying to come up with another, possibly a tribute to my flute teacher (I'm a giant music geek and she has been such a huge part of that and I love her for it), but it's still very much undecided. I don't think I'd get a tattoo to symbolize a relationship until after I'd been in it for a few years, but I do hope to some day get one.

 

[gingermango]

I have. A tattoo on my upper left hip/thigh area, two symbols chosen by Her.

 

[intothewoods]

Damn, a whole biblical Jew-ey convo and I missed it!

The same rule against tats is interpreted by man to also prohibit piercings. But I know plenty non-orthodox Jews who have piercings, but not tatoos. I'm one of them. As Homburg mentioned, yes, the argument is that the holes can close, theoretically.

If piercings are okay, and some piercings will not close, why not get tatooed? I don't object to it, rationally, and I love tatoos. But I just can't do it. I don't have a very well-articulated reason. Part of it is just that it goes against the traditions I was raised with, and I would feel weird about violating those. Also, the idea behind the rule seems to be not defacing what God made. Earring holes seem to be minor in that regard. But a tatoo? Eh, not so much. I'll skip it.

 

[nippleslut]

i am getting ready to get my tattoo that He has picked out for me it is the drama faces with a bdsm twist. i have a few tattoos already and as far as name tats go i have one and that one i got after my son passed away it is his name with a halo over the first letter of his name. i do not even have my daughters names i got two butterflys for them. my theory on name tats is that unless you came from me i would not even EVER consider it.

 

[Netzach]

I have a huge-ass Hamsa inked on my back.

A lot of punk rock young Jewy people apparently are doing similar ink. Sort of, yeah, my bad, but I love my culture anyway.

I can't imagine that there's a piercing issue, because traditionally I imagine Mizrahim were piercing noses and all kinds of business, it's definitely a look in Yemen.

But my disposal plans include things like "cremated" and "donated to science, then cremated" and such. Definitely not endorsed.

Also if you do a read, while it's definitely NOT ok to have ink, piercings aren't specified, the Talmud is undecided on it as always, and most contemporary conservative and reform rabbis are on record to say that the "respect for the dead" clause would never allow them to forbid burial to someone inked, it's just not the case. You're supposed to insist that your kids don't do it, it's bad, but no one should treat you shitty for having done it any more than we shun people for having a ham sammich.

We should, theroetically, just not do that.

ETA for relevancy, M has no marks and is pretty ambivalent about them, but it's possible that we may get him a tiny little hamsa somewhere, much more simplified than mine.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

See my av... already done it.

 

[EmpressFi]

Answer? Yes, I would. Currently caught between a manta ray or an octipuss for that reason.
Leaning towards the latter as it would wrap well around my left arm and the tenticles could lazily grip my upper/forearm.
What I feel others continue to miss about tattoos are, in my mind, their purpose.
They're there to tell a story I think.
Of places traveled, sights seen, people encountered, memories made and comemorated.
They all can't be perfect designs that mesh symbiotically into one another creating this ideal chain of tattoos that say everything about you.
It's rather unrealistic.

Like Ouiji boards and Canadian Bacon.

But please.......nomatter how commemorative you may think it is, I have NEVER met ANYONE who's not lived to regret getting a cartoon character.

I know there are usually exceptions to generalized rules but I've yet to meet him/her who've said "Why no, I absolutely love my Tazmanian Devil tattoo."

Slainte`

Hi.. Nice to meet you.. my name is Fi.. I have a tigger tattoo to my right lower leg... and I love it... I've had it for nearly 13 years.. it was my first..and it was my nickname in AOL where Malin and I met ..and he's my favorite character...

Now, you can say you've met One person who hasnt lived to regret a cartoon character

And yes.. my others have meanings.. the british flag is for my trip to England and the 3W in the middle is for Malin's 3 wives, and the other picture is my next one..to symbolize my choice to be a submissive full time.

 

[SubKekiLee]

For me I would never put anothers Name on my body... Unless it was a "in memory" of someone who was no longer with us.. I wanted to get a tattoo to symbolize I am Submissive and Owned but My Sir was against it.. I would have done it for him cause he means that much to me, but he didnt want that, he said it was my body and I could do what I wanted but he didnt endorse it so since he didnt endorse it I couldnt do it... But He means that much to me Id be willing to do if thats what he wanted... We are going on 8 months of utter bliss in my eyes... He is a wonderful person who has shown me more than I could have ever imagined possible...

 

[extm_pleasure]

jewish law

Really? Why is that?

In Jewish law in order to be burried in a Jewish cematary you must be put into the ground the way you came into the world. Unmarked. I guess with the exception of ear piercings the rules have been bent.

I'm Jewish and I currently have two tattoos and I plan on a third. When my marriage hits two years I'm getting my wedding band tattooed.

 

[Homburg]

I have a huge-ass Hamsa inked on my back.

Hamsa is the prayer in the hand?

But my disposal plans include things like "cremated" and "donated to science, then cremated" and such. Definitely not endorsed.

Same here. Use what you can, burn the rest, scatter the ashes some place I loved in life.

Also if you do a read, while it's definitely NOT ok to have ink, piercings aren't specified, the Talmud is undecided on it as always, and most contemporary conservative and reform rabbis are on record to say that the "respect for the dead" clause would never allow them to forbid burial to someone inked, it's just not the case. You're supposed to insist that your kids don't do it, it's bad, but no one should treat you shitty for having done it any more than we shun people for having a ham sammich.

We should, theroetically, just not do that.

This is interesting.

On other notes, shortly after she visited, we were doing some knifeplay. She asks me to mark her, and we discuss it, and figure that a scratched mark is very unlikely to scar. Y'know, just barely enough to break that first layer of skin. Doubly safe, as she heals up marks quickly anyway. So I scratch a mark into her upper thigh, almost at the hip, figuring we're safe. Yeah, three weeks later it is still very plainly visible. And is very obvious as to what it is. And is unexplainable as anything other than what it is. And shows clearly when she is wearing a bathing suit. And she goes to the beach regularly during the summer. With her family.

*beats head against wall*

 

[Netzach]

Hamsa is the prayer in the hand?



Same here. Use what you can, burn the rest, scatter the ashes some place I loved in life.



This is interesting.

On other notes, shortly after she visited, we were doing some knifeplay. She asks me to mark her, and we discuss it, and figure that a scratched mark is very unlikely to scar. Y'know, just barely enough to break that first layer of skin. Doubly safe, as she heals up marks quickly anyway. So I scratch a mark into her upper thigh, almost at the hip, figuring we're safe. Yeah, three weeks later it is still very plainly visible. And is very obvious as to what it is. And is unexplainable as anything other than what it is. And shows clearly when she is wearing a bathing suit. And she goes to the beach regularly during the summer. With her family.

*beats head against wall*

A Hamsa or hand of Fatima is a pan-semitic symbol to ward off the evil eye. Mine has a small eye, large decorative flower and fish motifs down the fingers and "chai" or life over the eye part. I like that the beauty of this symbol is one thing Arabs and Jews seem to be able to agree on, other than smoothed out winkies.

There's a good read on one of the mainstream Jewish answer sites -- Maimonedes said no way to intentional self marking, someone else said, it's fine as long as you don't tattoo yourself with Hashem's name - the phrase is basically - "you shall not mutilate the body I gave you: I am the Lord" - this Talmudic rabbi spun it grammatically differently, as you see, from the others - someone else, a contemporary, even admits that there are some passages in which biblical heroes (I'm not sure if it's Daniel or David) in battle "have the name of the Lord on their forearms" which could be poetic or, actually literal in that time.

Contemporary conservative comes down on tattooing, scarring being bad but somehow piercing your ears is fine, people do it.

Everyone's gotta pick her own path with this, but the evidence is really complex and contradictory.

 

[intothewoods]

A Hamsa or hand of Fatima is a pan-semitic symbol to ward off the evil eye. Mine has a small eye, large decorative flower and fish motifs down the fingers and "chai" or life over the eye part. I like that the beauty of this symbol is one thing Arabs and Jews seem to be able to agree on, other than smoothed out winkies.

There's a good read on one of the mainstream Jewish answer sites -- Maimonedes said no way to intentional self marking, someone else said, it's fine as long as you don't tattoo yourself with Hashem's name - the phrase is basically - "you shall not mutilate the body I gave you: I am the Lord" - this Talmudic rabbi spun it grammatically differently, as you see, from the others - someone else, a contemporary, even admits that there are some passages in which biblical heroes (I'm not sure if it's Daniel or David) in battle "have the name of the Lord on their forearms" which could be poetic or, actually literal in that time.

Contemporary conservative comes down on tattooing, scarring being bad but somehow piercing your ears is fine, people do it.

Everyone's gotta pick her own path with this, but the evidence is really complex and contradictory.

So it's not a mutilation if it's not God's name?

By the way, that reminds me of a story on This American Life last weekend (I think). The guy with the name Shalom? He went to yeshiva growing up, and one old rabbi freaked out and decided that Shalom was another name for God. So every time the kid wrote his name, he had to dispose of it in a special box meant typically for old prayer books, and that sort of thing. Like it included his daily lunch bag, labeled with his name by his mom. It was really funny.

 

[Homburg]

A Hamsa or hand of Fatima is a pan-semitic symbol to ward off the evil eye. Mine has a small eye, large decorative flower and fish motifs down the fingers and "chai" or life over the eye part. I like that the beauty of this symbol is one thing Arabs and Jews seem to be able to agree on, other than smoothed out winkies.

The Hamsa is a symbol that I really dig, for some reason. Certain symbols resonate across cultures, get to roots reactions in the human mind as a whole.

This is probably a discussion for a different thread though.

There's a good read on one of the mainstream Jewish answer sites -- Maimonedes said no way to intentional self marking, someone else said, it's fine as long as you don't tattoo yourself with Hashem's name - the phrase is basically - "you shall not mutilate the body I gave you: I am the Lord" - this Talmudic rabbi spun it grammatically differently, as you see, from the others - someone else, a contemporary, even admits that there are some passages in which biblical heroes (I'm not sure if it's Daniel or David) in battle "have the name of the Lord on their forearms" which could be poetic or, actually literal in that time.

*nod* That makes sense, from what I recall of reading those stories.

Contemporary conservative comes down on tattooing, scarring being bad but somehow piercing your ears is fine, people do it.

Everyone's gotta pick her own path with this, but the evidence is really complex and contradictory.

It's religion. Complex and contradictory is just how it rolls.

 

[smotherman]

Yes, I intend to get a permanent marking symbolising my commitment to her. My Miss is relocating to Las Vegas before next January.

 

[myinnerslut]

im about to get all jew-y in here....

after the service was over at temple today i made of a point of finding my rabbi after the recieving line and making a point to ask him if i could talk to him alone to ask him a question. i later asked my mother (who went to seminary and has a masters in jewish education) on the way home. these are my findings.

*disclaimers*

1- i am a reform jew. answers will apply to this sect of judiasm, usually one of the more liberal sects, though not always.

2- i did not specifically ask about marking oneself as a sign of ownership, just what was allowed on a person when being burried and why

3- i was admittindly leading the conversation both times to talk about cemeteries and standards so that may have skewed the answers a bit

4- my mother would full on flip out if she knew why i was asking so i had to approach the conversation vis a vis somebody we know who is jewish and tattooed.

findings:
1- tattoos are widely adknowledged to be a problem. there are however a few cemeteries who are allowing them becuase of holocuast survivors, and this acceptance spread to other tattoos as well. (fyi, nazi's did indeed choose tattoos partly becuase they were forbbiden. its adding insult to injury). this is contriversial, but the fact remains, some select reform cemeteries will accept tattoo-ed persons.

2- scars from accidents, medical procedures, etc, are not a problem. nor are natural skin marks like stretch marks or age spots. even scars left from cosmetic surgeries dont cuase an issue.

3- piercings, not a problem. the holes close up. plus piercing was a way of marking slaves that was refered to in the bible. you can find it in *checks my bible* exodus chapter 21 verse 6 "his master shall take him before God. he shall be brought to the door or the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall then remain his slave for life." my belly button piercing and the scar left from it are not an issue jewishly, only morally for my parents.

4- scars that are not accidents. the answer here was less clear. my rabbi didnt want to give an answer on this one since i think the topic of purposfully scarring oneself made him uncomfortable. i gave the example of self mutilation. would a cutter be banned from a jewish burial? the rabbis answer was a tentative no. i believe he thought i was cutting myself and didnt want to delve any further into the topic. my mother thought about the example i gave, and after some thought said that scars of any sort will not ban you from being burried.

5- decrotive scarring/ branding - we didnt discuss these, so i have no input for you

p.s. Master: a chamsa (hamsa) is the hand itself. hand of god. the prayer you saw on the one on my keychain was the travellers prayer

 

[Homburg]

*snip*

findings:
1- tattoos are widely adknowledged to be a problem. there are however a few cemeteries who are allowing them becuase of holocuast survivors, and this acceptance spread to other tattoos as well. (fyi, nazi's did indeed choose tattoos partly becuase they were forbbiden. its adding insult to injury). this is contriversial, but the fact remains, some select reform cemeteries will accept tattoo-ed persons.

Figured as much on the nazis.

Good to hear about some reform cemetaries accepting tattooed bodies.

2- scars from accidents, medical procedures, etc, are not a problem. nor are natural skin marks like stretch marks or age spots. even scars left from cosmetic surgeries dont cuase an issue.

3- piercings, not a problem. the holes close up. plus piercing was a way of marking slaves that was refered to in the bible. you can find it in *checks my bible* exodus chapter 21 verse 6 "his master shall take him before God. he shall be brought to the door or the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall then remain his slave for life." my belly button piercing and the scar left from it are not an issue jewishly, only morally for my parents.

4- scars that are not accidents. the answer here was less clear. my rabbi didnt want to give an answer on this one since i think the topic of purposfully scarring oneself made him uncomfortable. i gave the example of self mutilation. would a cutter be banned from a jewish burial? the rabbis answer was a tentative no. i believe he thought i was cutting myself and didnt want to delve any further into the topic. my mother thought about the example i gave, and after some thought said that scars of any sort will not ban you from being burried.

Good stuff, kitten. Thank you. You made me smile with all of this. I needed that today.

5- decrotive scarring/ branding - we didnt discuss these, so i have no input for you

Something tells me this would be an interesting conversation.

p.s. Master: a chamsa (hamsa) is the hand itself. hand of god. the prayer you saw on the one on my keychain was the travellers prayer

Thanks again, doll. I'm working on learning these terms.

 

[00Syd]

Whoa, thanks for all the info MIS! Before this discussion my thoughts on the topic never went much past tattooing, so it's interesting to hear theories on scarring, etc.

 

[myinnerslut]

Whoa, thanks for all the info MIS! Before this discussion my thoughts on the topic never went much past tattooing, so it's interesting to hear theories on scarring, etc.

no problem...

my friends rotate from calling me "the jewy-ist jew" to "super jew". its good to know it can be applied to something usefull. like being marked by my Master...... on second thought, thats probably not what they had in mind.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

1- tattoos are widely adknowledged to be a problem. there are however a few cemeteries who are allowing them becuase of holocuast survivors, and this acceptance spread to other tattoos as well. (fyi, nazi's did indeed choose tattoos partly becuase they were forbbiden. its adding insult to injury). this is contriversial, but the fact remains, some select reform cemeteries will accept tattoo-ed persons.

I thought it made sense when I read Leviticus.

 

[gingermango]

No offense intended to anyone of any faith or particular leanings, but this kind of stuff makes my head hurt and makes me glad I'm agnostic. I freely admit I don't know the answers to any of these things, and that personally I believe there probably are no answers.

 

[baristagirl]

I like tattoos and have had several piercings over the last few years. I'm working on another tattoo right now . Depending on the circumstances, sure I would consider it! Although it would have to be something I want, or something that I agree on. I don't think I could alter my body just for the hell of it if I don't approve. All in time though, yeah?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Thankyou for all the responses here. I also found the conversation about markings and Judaism interesting, although I'm Christian myself.

Can't remember if I actually spoke about my own choices but many here know (because of a previous thread) that Master is planning to mark me with a tattoo. I have no problem with this and it will not be his name or anything. He did consider working his initials into some kind of abstract design but I think that idea has passed now.

I was surprised when he announced that when I get tattooed, he will have a tattoo of some kind in the same place on his body, to symbolise his commitment to me and his status as my owner. That initially sparked the 'does anybody else do this?' question and I've really enjoyed reading through the thread.