Help me buy a new PC

[FungiUg]

Could someone help me pick out the right components for a new custom build machine, hopefully staying under about $500?

Yup.

Go to this site:

ExtremeTech

They have a long running series on building performance PCs for specific budgets, and I think $500 (U.S.) is one of the budgets they work to.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

no viruses, bugs get fixed pretty quick, usually before you even notice them, you get pretty much all the same software you do for PCs and even then you can if you want run microsoft on it or a part of it. it's super easy to use, it's aesthetically pleasing and you can big it up if you so choose.

This.

And since, as you say, Macs run Windows now, you can play that PC computer game or obscure piece of software you just can't do without and get your Windows viruses (just in case you miss those too).

 

[FungiUg]

The no viruses for a Mac is a myth, sad to say. There are fewer viruses (virii?) true, but it only takes one.

Also, you pay Apple tax. If you like the Mac way of doing things, all well and good, and that's a good reason to buy a Mac. But you get more bang for your buck buying PC hardware and software.

I should say I find Windows 7 easier to use than Macs, but that's a personal preference thing I think. Just thought I should list my own bias.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

The no viruses for a Mac is a myth, sad to say. There are fewer viruses (virii?) true, but it only takes one.

Also, you pay Apple tax. If you like the Mac way of doing things, all well and good, and that's a good reason to buy a Mac. But you get more bang for your buck buying PC hardware and software.

I should say I find Windows 7 easier to use than Macs, but that's a personal preference thing I think. Just thought I should list my own bias.

I've been using Macs hardcore all day on multiple Macs for a long time. I've never had a virus. Ever.

You're right, it only takes one, but it hasn't shown yet.

And the Apple Tax thing is way overblown.

Windows 7 is supposed to be better, but I've had such horrific experiences in the past with XP and Vista that it would take something amazing and sexual to get me to switch.

 

[FungiUg]

I've been using Macs hardcore all day on multiple Macs for a long time. I've never had a virus. Ever.

I know a couple of Mac uses here in Auckland that have had them.

And the Apple Tax thing is way overblown.

Maybe. Look at how much you pay for comparible systems... pretty easy to do the math.

Windows 7 is supposed to be better, but I've had such horrific experiences in the past with XP and Vista that it would take something amazing and sexual to get me to switch.

Ahahah. I've had horrific experiences on both, and on various Unix's, Linuxes and a few other odds and sods to match. I've used Macs since before there were PCs (as such, there were personal computers, but nothing based on the orginal IBM PC.) In the end, it's a matter of what works best for you as an individual.

For me, I play PC games, and most PC games aren't available on the Mac. So it's an easy call.

I also do a lot of work with databases (gotta make a buck somewhere) and again that makes running a PC an easy call.

And in NZ, Apple hardware is significantly more expensive than PC hardware, like about double the price. It may be different where you live.

As I said earlier, it really comes down to personal preference. If you like the Mac, then it makes sense to buy one as it's something you will be working with for a fair amount of time. If not, the reasons for buying one over a PC are pretty thin. Personal preference is, I believe, the reason to buy a Mac, and it's a good one.

 

[RuReal]

Users always amuse me a great deal. I have managed a mixed environment and paid to purchase the hardware for both.

This topic is debated with IT staff all over the place and really it does not matter for this thread. The person is looking to purchase a PC for under $500.

Few questions I have. What components do you currently have?
Keyboard, Mouse, display?
Do you have a usable case from the old computer or are you going to need to purchase a new case?

You mention video editing how much of that do you really do? Also of do you plan to use your computer as a major media center style machine where you plan on playing DVD's and such on it?

Answer those questions and I am sure people can give you a better answer and direction.

 

[FungiUg]

a) A SSD does not have mechanical parts. It's much more reliable and life expectancy is higher and it won't be replaced by something better in 6 months.

Um... Just out of interest, you are aware that current SSDs have a limited number of writes? It's pretty high, so they should last a couple of years. SSDs are faster and have less mechanical failure issues (duh) true, so they make excellent fast hard drives in something like a netbook. But the $/gb is still higher than a hard drive. If someone is doing a lot of video editing or something similar (er, running databases in my case) then it's too expensive to go the SSD route.

Also, if you buy a disc (of whatever sort) and it meets your needs, then it's not really being "replaced by something better" because you don't need to go buy another. Just buy what you need at the time, and don't worry about obsolesence.

 

[RuReal]

Um... Just out of interest, you are aware that current SSDs have a limited number of writes? It's pretty high, so they should last a couple of years. SSDs are faster and have less mechanical failure issues (duh) true, so they make excellent fast hard drives in something like a netbook. But the $/gb is still higher than a hard drive. If someone is doing a lot of video editing or something similar (er, running databases in my case) then it's too expensive to go the SSD route.

Also, if you buy a disc (of whatever sort) and it meets your needs, then it's not really being "replaced by something better" because you don't need to go buy another. Just buy what you need at the time, and don't worry about obsolesence.

I would say don't bother because they think they know what they are talking about... Frankly I think not as most users out there really won't be taking advantage of ssd tech. Hell there is a SSD San that I have seen and had others drool over, but we just could not figure a logical argument as to why we needed it or any real reason for it at this point.

 

[Primalex]

Um... Just out of interest, you are aware that current SSDs have a limited number of writes?

Yes.

Humans have a limited number of breaths, too.

But the $/gb is still higher than a hard drive. If someone is doing a lot of video editing or something similar (er, running databases in my case) then it's too expensive to go the SSD route.

Yes, this is why I recommend(ed) two drives.

Also, if you buy a disc (of whatever sort) and it meets your needs, then it's not really being "replaced by something better" because you don't need to go buy another. Just buy what you need at the time, and don't worry about obsolesence.

Unfortunately - how far do you get with a 5 year old PC these days?

Harddisk technology did not improve at all the last 10 years, because they face simple physical boundaries - they need to physically move the head. This is why the access time has been nearly constant. If you take a 10000rpm Velociraptor you manage to bring your access time from 4ms to 3ms. Yay. If you take a SSD you bring the access time to 0.2ms!


Anyway, I'm not here to convert someone, just sharing my opinion.

 

[where]

Not that many.
enough PC viruses and shit to fuck people's equipment up.


What kind of bugs? Hardware? OS? Application?

no idea, I've never encountered any bugs on mac

and then you get the viri problem, too. Maybe much worse, because you are not used to care about it.

no, the made for mac PC software like office for mac doesn't have these issues. the only way you get them is if you have a partition running windows and you go online on that side. even then only the partition with windows on is affected

I would grant you the "aesthetically pleasing" point, if I would care to look at my computer. I rather look at the monitor.
I was thinking about the interface actually. I use wondows at work and it gives me a headache.



Compared to a Mac?

a) Better third-party hardware support.debatable
b) Ten times more software.true, but how much of it do you need?
c) Much bigger user communities for support.that's because fucking PCs keep going wrong and you need a computing degree to fix the fuckers
d) Compatible with equipment at work.I go from windows to mac with no problems at all, though I'm not using specialised programmes, I admit.
e) Much richer UI options - one button and a scroll-wheel is maybe easier, but for sure not as versatile.if you really really want, you can use the same kind of mouse as a PC
f) Cheaper.true, but then they fuck up more. I bought an imac 8 years ago. still working perfectly, never had a bug or a virus and I have no need to change it
g) Computer games.this is true. macs are not so great for gamers apparently. though you can of course partition your HD and run them on windows if you want
h) By the way, do they have Blu-Ray support by now?I know you can burn blu-rays on the mac pro using toast. is that what you mean?

just a few things.

You know, if he would have said:"I want to impress chicks with my cool equipment, do a lot of video editing and painting and got some spare money" I would have said "Mac!", too. But I really have trouble to match his requirements with your recommendation.

he didn't say that he wanted to play video games all day or using a specialised programme either, which would be the main reason for getting a PC. My guess is he spends most of his time wanking on porn sites so a mac is a good bet because it's less likely to get a a nasty bug.

The no viruses for a Mac is a myth, sad to say. There are fewer viruses (virii?) true, but it only takes one.

I've never seen a single report of a mac virus other than the odd trojan you get of porn sites. a citation of such would be interesting.

 

[FungiUg]

Harddisk technology did not improve at all the last 10 years, because they face simple physical boundaries - they need to physically move the head.

Not true, btw. Think about the size of typical discs only 10 years ago and where they are now. I was reading an article about using self-assembly to form patterned bits on the platter to push a single platter even further (into the hundreds of gbs) just yesterday. Hard discs are pushing for the petabyte.

I do think this discussion is pointless though. The OP clearly stated he had a budget of $500. For that, he's unlikely to get an SSD or even a pair of discs. A single drive is more likely, although it may stretch to getting a large external disc he can use for backups, depending on whether he can get the rest of the components he needs and have some money spare. Otherwise it's backing up on DVD... *shudder*

 

[FungiUg]

I've never seen a single report of a mac virus other than the odd trojan you get of porn sites. a citation of such would be interesting.

Not too difficult to google it.

A couple of examples (taken from about.com):

Mac OS X Virus: Inqtana.A Worm
OSX/Inqtana.A is a Java-based worm that exploits the directory traversal vulnerability in the Bluetooth file and object exchange services in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger).

Leap.A aka Oompa-Loompa virus
The Leap.A (aka Oompa-Loompa) infects applications in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) running on PowerPC processors.

 

[FungiUg]

$200 Linux PC anyone?

 

[where]

Not too difficult to google it.

A couple of examples (taken from about.com):

Mac OS X Virus: Inqtana.A Worm
OSX/Inqtana.A is a Java-based worm that exploits the directory traversal vulnerability in the Bluetooth file and object exchange services in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger).

Leap.A aka Oompa-Loompa virus
The Leap.A (aka Oompa-Loompa) infects applications in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) running on PowerPC processors.

need a better cite than about.com

and neither is actually a virus.

read about 'em here.

http://macosx.com/forums/apple-news-rumors-discussion/268719-possible-os-x-trojan.html

 

[FungiUg]

need a better cite than about.com

It was what came up in google. *shrug*

and neither is actually a virus.

read about 'em here.

http://macosx.com/forums/apple-news-rumors-discussion/268719-possible-os-x-trojan.html

Why am I researching something that I don't care about? I know a couple of people who have had Mac viruses. (Technically, one was a trojan, but hey.) If you are interested, go looking yourself.

A reasonably sucinct article on Does a Mac need anti-virus protection? from the Guardian.

 

[RuReal]

In most cases it is not the computer that needs the AV it is the user. For years I ran without AV on a PC and had no virus issues at all. Then my now wife moved in and I took steps. If you know what you are doing and are not downloading tons of crap you don't need AV. Hmm I smell a reason here why Mac's don't normally get viruses, but I will leave it alone.

 

[where]

It was what came up in google. *shrug*



Why am I researching something that I don't care about? I know a couple of people who have had Mac viruses. (Technically, one was a trojan, but hey.) If you are interested, go looking yourself.

A reasonably sucinct article on Does a Mac need anti-virus protection? from the Guardian.

In most cases it is not the computer that needs the AV it is the user. For years I ran without AV on a PC and had no virus issues at all. Then my now wife moved in and I took steps. If you know what you are doing and are not downloading tons of crap you don't need AV. Hmm I smell a reason here why Mac's don't normally get viruses, but I will leave it alone.

whole family has macs. I go on lots of dodgy porn sites linked from here and other places and the other half has downloaded tons of music and vids. In 8 years we haven't had a single problem with any of the macs. nothing. zip . nada. and we use macs because we are too technologically challenged to use a PC. I have a friend who is very techie and they get viruses on their PC at least twice a year despite running anti-virus software and being paranoid about links and downloads. Go figure.

 

[FungiUg]

I have a friend who is very techie and they get viruses on their PC at least twice a year despite running anti-virus software and being paranoid about links and downloads. Go figure.

Um, I haven't had a virus for, um, oh... five years? The last virus I had to fix was a trojan on a PC for my ex's son, and I think that was about five years ago.

On the other hand, I got my wow account cracked this year. I discovered this when I got banned for running a mod, when my account hadn't been paid for two months... so I wondered how I was managing to run a mod when I wasn't even playing.

Whatever the platform, you can get nasties.

 

[VelvetSin]

You can get a ton of very reasonably priced PCs (or laptops or monitors or accessories) at Dell's Outlet if you're open to one of those. Go to Dell's main site, and at the bottom of the page in the section of junk where corporate links and nonsense are usually skimmed over, one on the bottom left is Dell Outlet. You may need to click a bit until you get to pricing, but I saw a pretty decent desktop for

You can get Refurbished and Scratch & Dent, but I wouldn't recommend it. My preference is "Previously Ordered New." As it was explained to me, those are machines that were ordered and shipped to a customer, then returned within the seven day window (or whatever their short return policy is), and passed whatever quality control checks upon return to still qualify as going into the "new" bin for clearance resale.

I'm not techie-oriented and have others pick stuff out for me and I just buy when I've needed to upgrade or add, but I glanced through and saw a number of choices that were < $500.

 

[RuReal]

You can get a ton of very reasonably priced PCs (or laptops or monitors or accessories) at Dell's Outlet if you're open to one of those. Go to Dell's main site, and at the bottom of the page in the section of junk where corporate links and nonsense are usually skimmed over, one on the bottom left is Dell Outlet. You may need to click a bit until you get to pricing, but I saw a pretty decent desktop for

You can get Refurbished and Scratch & Dent, but I wouldn't recommend it. My preference is "Previously Ordered New." As it was explained to me, those are machines that were ordered and shipped to a customer, then returned within the seven day window (or whatever their short return policy is), and passed whatever quality control checks upon return to still qualify as going into the "new" bin for clearance resale.

I'm not techie-oriented and have others pick stuff out for me and I just buy when I've needed to upgrade or add, but I glanced through and saw a number of choices that were < $500.

Great suggestion only one thing I would not touch a dell laptop unless it was free. To this day they still tend to have large scale motherboard issues. Everything else they make isn't bad. Just the laptops are the issue.


I have not had a virus in 8 years now. The only virus had was from the wife when we first met. Chances of you getting a virus from video, music or image is next to non. Your more techie friend is more likly to get a virus than you are even if you ran a PC.

 

[VelvetSin]

Great suggestion only one thing I would not touch a dell laptop unless it was free. To this day they still tend to have large scale motherboard issues. Everything else they make isn't bad. Just the laptops are the issue.


I have not had a virus in 8 years now. The only virus had was from the wife when we first met. Chances of you getting a virus from video, music or image is next to non. Your more techie friend is more likly to get a virus than you are even if you ran a PC.

Dell laptops aren't horrible for the money, but yes, the ones I've owned have eventually failed due to motherboard issues, though I got a lot of life out of most of them before that happened. I've beat the crud out of my current one, it's been thrown around in airport security and overhead bins, and it's still chugging but its motherboard will eventually fry like the rest.

I peeked through the PC desktops when suggesting that, and although I don't really know what I'm looking at other than pricetags, there were a lot that fell in the requested price range in the Refurb and Scratch & Dent. I didn't search hard enough to see about Previous Ordered New (those do tend to be a little bit pricier because they are still considered "new" and undamaged - someone just may not have liked the case color, or changed their mind, whatever). You can get some good deals on Scratch & Dent but I'd talk to a rep on the phone about those rather than ordering online and getting all the detailed info you can and make sure it's purely cosmetic.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Okay, How about Plan B then? Move to a shack in the mountains, get off the grid and put the $500 toward a solar water heater. Write your manifesto in caterpillar innards on tree bark.

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, How about Plan B then? Move to a shack in the mountains, get off the grid and put the $500 toward a solar water heater. Write your manifesto in caterpillar innards on tree bark.

Let us know when you're done and we'll look forward to reading it.

 

[RuReal]

Dell laptops aren't horrible for the money, but yes, the ones I've owned have eventually failed due to motherboard issues, though I got a lot of life out of most of them before that happened. I've beat the crud out of my current one, it's been thrown around in airport security and overhead bins, and it's still chugging but its motherboard will eventually fry like the rest.

I peeked through the PC desktops when suggesting that, and although I don't really know what I'm looking at other than pricetags, there were a lot that fell in the requested price range in the Refurb and Scratch & Dent. I didn't search hard enough to see about Previous Ordered New (those do tend to be a little bit pricier because they are still considered "new" and undamaged - someone just may not have liked the case color, or changed their mind, whatever). You can get some good deals on Scratch & Dent but I'd talk to a rep on the phone about those rather than ordering online and getting all the detailed info you can and make sure it's purely cosmetic.

rofl I am sorry I find it funny you are saying they are not horrible for the money yet you are aware and have experienced the motherboard failures yourself. I guess that makes me wonder what you consider a lot of life?

 

[Homburg]

Some observations:

I am typing this response on a mac mini. It's an excellent little box for what it is good for, yet I would never suggest it for the parameters indicated in the OP. Macs rock for a lot of reasons, but "inexpensive" is never among them.

Dells aren't worth it, period. The mobos on the laptops suck, the power input sockets are horrible, the performance is blah, and, wow, do you need more reasons to not buy? They are ubiquitous because they have really strong bulk buy programs, and thus a lot of enterprise-level orgs buy them. I know, my current work laptop is a Dell. It's survived quite a while, but that's because I baby it. It might as well be a desktop for all that it moves off of my desk.

The $200 linux box is slick. Really slick. And I think the article shows the methodology that would work well in this situation. Performance is secondary to "value".