Help me buy a new PC

[DVS]

I know a couple of Mac uses here in Auckland that have had them.


Maybe. Look at how much you pay for comparible systems... pretty easy to do the math.


Ahahah. I've had horrific experiences on both, and on various Unix's, Linuxes and a few other odds and sods to match. I've used Macs since before there were PCs (as such, there were personal computers, but nothing based on the orginal IBM PC.) In the end, it's a matter of what works best for you as an individual.

For me, I play PC games, and most PC games aren't available on the Mac. So it's an easy call.

I also do a lot of work with databases (gotta make a buck somewhere) and again that makes running a PC an easy call.

And in NZ, Apple hardware is significantly more expensive than PC hardware, like about double the price. It may be different where you live.

As I said earlier, it really comes down to personal preference. If you like the Mac, then it makes sense to buy one as it's something you will be working with for a fair amount of time. If not, the reasons for buying one over a PC are pretty thin. Personal preference is, I believe, the reason to buy a Mac, and it's a good one.

I also believe that Mac or PC is a matter of preference. I use one of my computers for nothing but creating music and although Mac is mostly geared for music and video production, I prefer my PC. And I've paid much less, over the years. If I need to add something to my PC to get what I need, it's available. If I don't need it, I don't get it.

Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with a Mac. I know people who own Macs and wouldn't change for anything. But, I also know people who feel that way about their PC. It's just where your desires are. I don't play computer games, but I know some aren't available in the Apple format.

Some guys like big tits. Me? I'm an ass man. It's all a matter of preference.

 

[Primalex]

In most cases it is not the computer that needs the AV it is the user. For years I ran without AV on a PC and had no virus issues at all.

Yeah, I was a follower of this philosophy, too - virus free for hmm.. 10 years? - until last week.
Latest Firefox
Latest Win7 updates
MS Windows Defender

Clicked a Google link to a website
Next I see is Win 7 UAC popping up asking me if I would like to switch to root mode now.
WTF? NO!
Popup-Box appears again.
NO!
I close the browser.
UAC comes back as fast as I can click No.
A new icon appears in the task bar.
WTF? I said NO?! How can something install then?
Okay, emergency shut down.

End of the story:
A trojan who deployed some fake anti-virus software. Could have been worse (like a Steam password sniffer ) but I still have no clue which security hole the website managed to exploit and I really don't like this.

I agree though, 99.99999% of the infections are PEBKAC, but there are nevertheless 0-day exploits out there.

 

[BiBunny]

End of the story:
A trojan who deployed some fake anti-virus software. Could have been worse (like a Steam password sniffer ) but I still have no clue which security hole the website managed to exploit and I really don't like this.

A hole in Java, possibly? That's what happened to me fairly recently.

 

[DVS]

Yeah, I was a follower of this philosophy, too - virus free for hmm.. 10 years? - until last week.
Latest Firefox
Latest Win7 updates
MS Windows Defender

Clicked a Google link to a website
Next I see is Win 7 UAC popping up asking me if I would like to switch to root mode now.
WTF? NO!
Popup-Box appears again.
NO!
I close the browser.
UAC comes back as fast as I can click No.
A new icon appears in the task bar.
WTF? I said NO?! How can something install then?
Okay, emergency shut down.

End of the story:
A trojan who deployed some fake anti-virus software. Could have been worse (like a Steam password sniffer ) but I still have no clue which security hole the website managed to exploit and I really don't like this.

I agree though, 99.99999% of the infections are PEBKAC, but there are nevertheless 0-day exploits out there.

I don't know that much about Windows 7, but I have one at work. And from what I've seen, it's very restrictive on what it allows even the user to do. I wasn't even allowed to add a picture to my signature at the bottom of my email. It also won't let me send web site links or any attachments other than txt files. It even asks if I want to allow the information put into the clipboard that I just added it to the clipboard.

On the surface it seems that Microsoft finally got the message that people were making fun of how their Windows OS code is always less than secure and so this time, they went overboard the other way.

So, am I to believe that this situation which doesn't allow the user to do much with out restriction is maybe cosmetic and there's still a hole in the code that a virus can get in?

 

[FungiUg]

So, am I to believe that this situation which doesn't allow the user to do much with out restriction is maybe cosmetic and there's still a hole in the code that a virus can get in?

Um... The simple answer is: yes. Vista and Windows 7 improved matters, but you still need AV software.[*]

I use Microsoft Security Essentials, which is the (free) upgrade from Windows Defender. You might want to upgrade, qp.


[*] The complicated is... complicated. It's still possible to exploit weaknesses in various systems we run and not just the operating system either: Java, Flash, Acrobat Reader, iTunes have all had reasonably well publicised issues recently. But when a virus lands on your system, it only gets to run at the same security level as the user. Under Vista and Windows 7, users don't get to run with administration privileges, so as soon as the virus wants to do anything like get to the system resources (network, hard drive, etc) it has to ask for security elevation.

Vista and Windows 7 don't eliminate viral attacks, but they do reduce the impact and ability for virii to spread. The code for those two OS's is a lot more secure as well. Unfortunately, most of the exploits these days aren't via the OS directly, but rather via the applications we run.

 

[RuReal]

Last real comment always keep your price in mind. If you are looking for portability just get a netbook. $250 to $300 new.

As always it depends on what you need it to do and what you have.

@HomBurg I am trying to be nice and fair. Normally I hate Dell computers for a number of reasons that I don't need to share on this thread. The only real decent stuff that they make is the server hardware. Not too many major issues I have heard of with it. What tends to be funny is most of the hardware is all made by the same people.

 

[FungiUg]

A hole in Java, possibly?

I believe there are attacks out there for Flash and Shockwave and Acrobat Reader as well, so make sure all of these are up-to-date.

 

[VelvetSin]

rofl I am sorry I find it funny you are saying they are not horrible for the money yet you are aware and have experienced the motherboard failures yourself. I guess that makes me wonder what you consider a lot of life?

A lot of life is defined by the four Dell laptops we have owned these past years. My first laptop was purchased through the Outlet as "Previously Ordered New" in 2004 and just failed at the beginning of this year. With six years on it, it was outdated and in sore need of replacement so I wasn't that upset. B just corrected me on the reason for its failure and said it was a fan issue due to six years of kinda spotty maintenance. He was able to recover the stuff on the hard drive and said he could have fixed it but since it was six years old, it was time to let it go.

The three laptops in the house now are all Dell too. They are three years old, three years old, and 1.5 years old with no issues on any of those three yet.

I'm not really interested in diving into a big tech-fest, though. (I say that with fondness - techies fix what I break.) I was just offering a suggested alternative that does meet the original pricetag request, many of the requested things others said to aim for, and has served me well through a few purchases now. Sorry to hear others haven't gotten the same mileage.

 

[Homburg]

I remember when a previous employer switched us to Dells away from our old IBM Thinkpads. I went through five Dells in the course of three months before I just asked if I could have my thinkpad back. Fortunately, the regional office that I gave it to still had it. I used that thinkpad for another coupla months before they finally got me a Dell that would work.

That said, my current Dell is probably three years old. Again, I baby it, but it is still solid. Still, I have it because my current employer handed it to me. I would not buy one. I was amazed when a good friend of mine bought a Dell Mini9 netbook, as he is an IT manager and has a hatred of Dell that is somewhere in the "thousand fiery suns" area. It wasn't until he explained the stunning steal that he got it for that I understood. And, on top of it, as he explained, it's a netbook. If it fails, he's not ass-out.

I think the biggest problem in this case with an off-the-shelf Dell lies more in the twin problems of mystery components (who built the memory? Is the mobo actually what they said it was?), and all too often a lack of ability to upgrade when you have more money to play with.

 

[FungiUg]

The most reliable PC I ever owned was a Gateway. That thing lasted me 7 years! And pretty good bang for the buck too... they forgot to bill me for it.

The most reliable laptop I ever had was a Toshiba, bought by work.

I've worked with a lot of Dells, and had issues. HP, same deal. Compaq (before they were subsumed), same deal. IBM (before they chicked out of the PC market), same deal. Apple too for that matter (although the Apple IIe was an awesomely rugged machine). Server hardware, much the same story.

 

[brioche]

With my Dad and the job he had (he just "retired" - he's working two days a week), we have had all kinds of laptops come and go through this house. I had a Toshiba myself and this is a ThinkPad with bells and whistles like a DVD drive. The Toshiba took a hell of a lot of abuse in the classroom before it kicked, five years after I'd bought it. This one is much more delicate.
When I expressed my opinion that Toshiba is fairly hardy to my dad, he agreed. His Toshiba laptop fell off a moving truck and he fixed the corner it landed on with duct tape and it worked fine for years after that. He could have got a new computer (they were free for him because he travelled so much that it was a necessity), but he didn't need or want one.

If you want something light, go for a ThinkPad. If you want something durable, go for Toshiba.

I'm going to get a Toshiba mini to go to and from school with me for planning.

I know this has nothing to do with the OP but the thread had a few sidelines going on it.

 

[RuReal]

You know I will make one comment about Laptops. You really have to watch the model of laptop you purchase even when it comes to the manufacturer. Consumer grade laptops are ususally not too good while business class laptops are a different story.

The light thinkpad story made me remember that. Also the fact that a consumer Toshiba is very different than the business grade units. Unfortunatly Dell does not seem to improve in that manner.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I have an 8 year old Dell laptop that still works great. The hard drive crapped out a couple years in but Dell sent a replacement one for free and its been working fine since.

My parents just got a new Dell desktop to replace their 12 year old Dell desktop.

I had a 10 year old Dell desktop before I got a new one.

Both 12 and 10 year olds worked great and still work. If you don't mind them being slow as shit.

 

[DVS]

Last real comment always keep your price in mind. If you are looking for portability just get a netbook. $250 to $300 new.

As always it depends on what you need it to do and what you have.

@HomBurg I am trying to be nice and fair. Normally I hate Dell computers for a number of reasons that I don't need to share on this thread. The only real decent stuff that they make is the server hardware. Not too many major issues I have heard of with it. What tends to be funny is most of the hardware is all made by the same people.

Not trying to fuel any squabbles, or even start one, but being an old tech from way back, when I was more in the know, I felt the same way about Compaq machines and Seagate drives.

Early in 1990, I worked for a place that made clone computers. We had a series of Seagate drives that worked fine sitting on a table, but when mounted in the machine, one of the mounting screws would cause one complete track to be bad. Take it back out of the case, and that track would be fine, again. This was back in the MFM days, but the company was the same. Everybody involved thought it was a strange situation, but Seagate took the drives back.

About 8 years later, I was IT for one company and we purchased several hundred Compaq computers, within a period of months, they all ended up having bad drives. Yes, the drives were Seagate but this time they were IDE. And the issue wasn't the defective drives, but the tech support of Compaq was lousy. They fought us all the way. What's worse, these machines had been sitting in a warehouse and were all from the same batch. A batch that Compaq had to know was defective, and they still tried to say we were doing something to the drives. I've always liked HP, mainly for their printers. I was sorry to hear that they purchased Compaq. I'd purchase a Seagate drive today, but I don't think I'll ever purchase another Compaq computer.

On Dell, I have two of their computers here at home, and I don't really see an issue with either of them. And the last three companies I've worked for (or in) purchase Dell exclusively and these aren't small companies. There has got to be something good about Dell, if a company with nearly 1000 users purchases that brand exclusively.

 

[Homburg]

On Dell, I have two of their computers here at home, and I don't really see an issue with either of them. And the last three companies I've worked for (or in) purchase Dell exclusively and these aren't small companies. There has got to be something good about Dell, if a company with nearly 1000 users purchases that brand exclusively.

Price/cost of ownership and a whoooole lot of people saying the same thing you did

--

Toshiba laptops? Those I'm happy with. I've had a few, both for work and personal use, and they've always been hardy, reliable machines.

 

[DVS]

Personally, I don't care for laptops...of any brand. They are too fragile. If I do ever get one, it will be a netbook of some sort, but I'm on the fence with the decision.

 

[BiBunny]

Price/cost of ownership and a whoooole lot of people saying the same thing you did

--

Toshiba laptops? Those I'm happy with. I've had a few, both for work and personal use, and they've always been hardy, reliable machines.

Toshiba FTW. Cheap, reliable, and last forever.

 

[FungiUg]

One of the things I like about doing your own assembly from parts is that you can choose which parts you put in there. Helps avoid things like the Seagate fiasco.

The downside is that you don't get Dell sending you free replacement drives. Or at least, I haven't tried contacting Dell for a replacement drive for a home-assembled PC. Maybe I should?

 

[DVS]

One of the things I like about doing your own assembly from parts is that you can choose which parts you put in there. Helps avoid things like the Seagate fiasco.

The downside is that you don't get Dell sending you free replacement drives. Or at least, I haven't tried contacting Dell for a replacement drive for a home-assembled PC. Maybe I should?

Let me know if that works. We can go into the hard drive business.

 

[RuReal]

@DVS - Actually just because a company purchases thousands of computers Dell or otherwise means nothing. They do it all the time and change it every few years depending on who is giving them the best price. I was involved a few years ago in a deal for a Major bank that decided that Dell had to go. What was even funnier is that they did not bother doing there own support for the devices they had IBM do it. Leason I learned from thousands of machines is that the laptops were crap. Desktops were fine and the server were well servers...

HP has it's good things and bad things. The desktops are fin and HP servers once again my message about servers. LOL The laptops are fine for the most part, but what bothers me is who ever they have picked to make some decisions on them needs to get smacked a few times. If you have a black keys on your keyboard why would you have black writing for the letters? one of my techs pointed it out to me and I just looked and laughed. In addition they need to look at the stability of thier drivers again.

On a hardware level though they are pretty decent. At this point in the game the laptop prices have gone down a lot, but if you want quality you will pay for it. For most people I would suggest a Netbook. Most people really don't need as much processor power as they think and those little Atom cpu's are good enough. I know I am going to look into one to play with as another web box.... Hmmm might already have way too many computers in the house, but a little Atom box would be easy to hide.

 

[BiBunny]

HP laptops blow. I had the motherboard melt down in my old one twice in less than two years. The first time was exactly three weeks after the goddamn warranty ran out. It took 3 months to get the stupid thing replaced, and it only lasted another 8 or 9 months before the replacement motherboard melted down, too. That's when I just trashed the thing and got this fantastical Toshiba for half the price. Nearly 2 years later, she's still going strong.

 

[Homburg]

I've been dorking about with linux on the netbook. Running it off the thumbdrive and it's still faster by a damnedsight than windows 7 starter. Way faster. It's creepy. If I can get the wireless working (fucking broadcom), then I may just wipe this baby and go linux on it completely.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I have an 8 year old Dell laptop that still works great. The hard drive crapped out a couple years in but Dell sent a replacement one for free and its been working fine since.

My parents just got a new Dell desktop to replace their 12 year old Dell desktop.

I had a 10 year old Dell desktop before I got a new one.

Both 12 and 10 year olds worked great and still work. If you don't mind them being slow as shit.

I'm on my second, and I only replaced that one because it was getting out of date.

I haven't had any issues, other than I thought the battery on this one had died quicker than it should have, but then when I realised how many partial charges I was doing a day, it made sense.

I like my Dell.

 

[Homburg]

This is really what irritates me about Dell. Their products are inconsistent. The suck ones suck viciously, but the ones that are made right do just fine. And they have juuust enough of the ones made right that their rep isn't trashed completely.

If they were consistent with the good machines, I'd be fine. They're not.

 

[Marquis]

Thanks for all the great advice guys, I decided not to upgrade my pc, mostly because I'd rather spend the money on things I need more.

That said, I did upgrade to windows 7 and office 2010 and liking them both a lot so far.