Here's How Donald Trump Could Become President

[toubab]

Al Gore just rolled his eyes.

It's done state by state.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

The game, on the Republican side, doesn't favor Trump any more than anyone else concerning pledged delegates. Winner-take-all rules, or winner-take-most, are fair to everyone running, and that's why Trump is ahead. He has gotten more votes in those states. The general election in November will be decided almost entirely by winner-take-all rules.

Is it fair that Rubio can hold on to his delegates even though he's no longer running?

 

[toubab]

Is it fair that Rubio can hold on to his delegates even though he's no longer running?

That's one reason he suspended his campaign, rather than ending it. Another little trick in the game.

 

[pensivepoet]

It's done state by state.

You're sort of making my point.
Should a vote in california count more than a vote in Wyoming?
It does.
And if you are a democrat living in Texas when a Bush is running, will your vote count?
Your vote only counts in swing states with a goodly number of elecorates, for the most part.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I think the point is both major political parties make it extremely difficult for someone like Bernie, or someone like Trump, to be nominated. In Bernie's case he can beat Hillary in pledged delegates but still lose solely because of superdelegates. The deck is stacked against him. In Trump's case he can beat all the other candidates in votes and pledged delegates easily, as he has done, and still lose, because of intricate rules. The two major parties have a stranglehold on the political process in this country, and plan to keep it that way.

Ignoring for a split second that Pilot makes a damn good case for why it is good and proper that the parties make it difficult for someone like Bernie or Trump to succeed which I'll summarize as "Where were you when we was throwin' down." I don't disagree.

What I take great offense to is the bitching. At present Hillary doesn't need the Supers to win. If the Supers didn't exist her margin would narrow sure but she'd still be up.

Trump on the other hand (as well as Cruz to be fair) have benefited from the way Republicans hand out delegates. Trump simply wouldn't be as far ahead if the mechanics were a 1:1 ratio so his bitching SHOULD fall on deaf ears.

I think we should have nationalized this bullshit a century ago. There is no excuse for me needing to understand over 100 (when you factor in non states with votes such as D.C., Guam and Puerto Rico) sets of rules in order to wrap my mind around this accurately. And it does mean that your strategy is important because 51% of a winner take all state is goddamn vital. 49% of a proportionally granted state is a wash.

 

[toubab]

You're sort of making my point.
Should a vote in california count more than a vote in Wyoming?
It does.
And if you are a democrat living in Texas when a Bush is running, will your vote count?
Your vote only counts in swing states with a goodly number of elecorates, for the most part.

Actually, you have it reversed. In the general election a vote in Wyoming counts more than a vote in California. But your overall point is correct. There's nothing really fair about the whole electoral process, start to finish.

 

[pensivepoet]

Actually, you have it reversed. In the general election a vote in Wyoming counts more than a vote in California. But your overall point is correct. There's nothing really fair about the whole electoral process, start to finish.

You know my point.
Cal~55 electorals
Wyo~3
How much does Wyo figure in the results? Very little.
Wait and see how much campaigning is done in Wyoming.
They might wave as they fly over.
And speaking of Cal, there's a fair chance the winner is declared while people are still voting in Cal.
Throw out the electorate college, count every vote, and vote at the same time.
Voting starts early out West, later in the East.
That way voters out West can't be influenced by early results.
Too simple?

 

[toubab]

You know my point.
Cal~55 electorals
Wyo~3
How much does Wyo figure in the results? Very little.
Wait and see how much campaigning is done in Wyoming.
They might wave as they fly over.
And speaking of Cal, there's a fair chance the winner is declared while people are still voting in Cal.
Throw out the electorate college, count every vote, and vote at the same time.
Voting starts early out West, later in the East.
That way voters out West can't be influenced by early results.
Too simple?

It'll never happen. Too much like democracy.

 

[pensivepoet]

It'll never happen. Too much like democracy.

I'd be really pissed if I was standing in line to vote and Fox was declaring the winner.
It happens.
And way out in Hawaii? 4 electorals? Why bother?
It'll be declared way before your vote that doesn't count anyway is counted anyway.
In Ohio?
You damn bet your vote counts!
Guess we'll all have to move to Ohio to matter.
In America, one vote is not equal to another.
Sorry, rant complete.

 

[pensivepoet]

The really hilarious thing, is that I don't think Trump had a clue about any of this til just recently.
Ha!

 

[Sean Renaud]

You know my point.
Cal~55 electorals
Wyo~3
How much does Wyo figure in the results? Very little.
Wait and see how much campaigning is done in Wyoming.
They might wave as they fly over.
And speaking of Cal, there's a fair chance the winner is declared while people are still voting in Cal.
Throw out the electorate college, count every vote, and vote at the same time.
Voting starts early out West, later in the East.
That way voters out West can't be influenced by early results.
Too simple?

To simple yes. We are intentionally not a democracy. That stated Wyoming and many states would get LESS campaign time in your system because they'd matter even less than they do now. (Which is more than they should.)

California population. 38.8 million. 55 Electoral votes= 705455 humans= 1 electoral vote.
Wyoming population 584,153. 3 Electoral votes. 194717 humans=1 Electoral vote

Whether or not this is justice or not (it's not) is beside the point I'm making. The reality is that if everybody in Wyoming moved to California you'd lose 2 votes. Tell me again why anybody would give two shits about Wyoming in a system where they got the equivalent of 1 California vote?

If you're from a big state like California the rigging is actually WORSE because originally you got more Representatives based on population and Congress grew and grew (to the point today where it's a big unwieldy mess that should probably be rethought from step one but I digress) in 1911 Congress (and thus electoral votes) were capped at 435. Which means that despite years population growth California's influence did not grow in proportion to it's population.

I'm willing to admit that I might be sour because I think I'm getting shafted. But I fully recognize WHY I'm getting shafted.

As for voting all at once why bother? You do know they aren't done counting at the end of the night and technically speaking the call is not legally binding or anything. It may influence people to not vote or get out early but you could have the exact same effect by making it illegal for media to report on the election until x o'clock the next day and have the exact same effect.

 

[Hypoxia]

5 Ways U.S. Democracy Is More Rigged Than You Think (from 2013)

#5. Your Congressional Representative Has Already Been Chosen for You
#4. The Two Controlling Parties Actively Sabotage Their Competition
#3. The Government Can Kill Any Court Case by Claiming It's a State Secret
#2. Who Decides if the Supreme Court Has a Conflict of Interest? They Do
#1. The Minority Party Can Keep Anything from Getting Done

These are called structural flaws AKA we're fucked.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'd be really pissed if I was standing in line to vote and Fox was declaring the winner.
It happens.
And way out in Hawaii? 4 electorals? Why bother?
It'll be declared way before your vote that doesn't count anyway is counted anyway.
In Ohio?
You damn bet your vote counts!
Guess we'll all have to move to Ohio to matter.
In America, one vote is not equal to another.
Sorry, rant complete.

You're right, but could you imagine doing one person - one vote in a close election?

Under one person - one vote Hawaii and California votes still might not matter because of time zones.

 

[pensivepoet]

To simple yes. We are intentionally not a democracy. That stated Wyoming and many states would get LESS campaign time in your system because they'd matter even less than they do now. (Which is more than they should.)

California population. 38.8 million. 55 Electoral votes= 705455 humans= 1 electoral vote.
Wyoming population 584,153. 3 Electoral votes. 194717 humans=1 Electoral vote

Whether or not this is justice or not (it's not) is beside the point I'm making. The reality is that if everybody in Wyoming moved to California you'd lose 2 votes. Tell me again why anybody would give two shits about Wyoming in a system where they got the equivalent of 1 California vote?

If you're from a big state like California the rigging is actually WORSE because originally you got more Representatives based on population and Congress grew and grew (to the point today where it's a big unwieldy mess that should probably be rethought from step one but I digress) in 1911 Congress (and thus electoral votes) were capped at 435. Which means that despite years population growth California's influence did not grow in proportion to it's population.

I'm willing to admit that I might be sour because I think I'm getting shafted. But I fully recognize WHY I'm getting shafted.

As for voting all at once why bother? You do know they aren't done counting at the end of the night and technically speaking the call is not legally binding or anything. It may influence people to not vote or get out early but you could have the exact same effect by making it illegal for media to report on the election until x o'clock the next day and have the exact same effect.

You didn't address the issue of a dem voting in a state sure to go rep or vice versa.
Their vote will not count.
I appreciate your math but I stick to my simple logic that all votes should count.
My mind just works that way.

 

[pensivepoet]

You're right, but could you imagine doing one person - one vote in a close election?

Under one person - one vote Hawaii and California votes still might not matter because of time zones.

That's why I say open the voting out there at 4am and hold the East back.
It didn't matter in 1900, but it matters now.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

That's why I say open the voting out there at 4am and hold the East back.
It didn't matter in 1900, but it matters now.

It's a great idea, but I doubt it's feasible.

 

[pensivepoet]

It's a great idea, but I doubt it's feasible.

Yeah, I know.
But politics give me Spock moments.
I just can't make sense of it.
All I want is to know my vote really matters.
Right now, I don't believe it.
Currently, my legal residence is ky.
I promise you that ky will be red.
I can vote, but my vote won't count.
All of ky's electorals will go to the rep candidate.
It's a done deal.
I'll just skip it and watch it all from a bar.
If every individual vote counted, I'd vote.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Yeah, I know.
But politics give me Spock moments.
I just can't make sense of it.
All I want is to know my vote really matters.
Right now, I don't believe it.
Currently, my legal residence is ky.
I promise you that ky will be red.
I can vote, but my vote won't count.
All of ky's electorals will go to the rep candidate.
It's a done deal.
I'll just skip it and watch it all from a bar.
If every individual vote counted, I'd vote.

Change your legal residence to Ohio for October & November.

 

[pensivepoet]

Change your legal residence to Ohio for October & November.

Yep, Ohio always picks the pres.
Oh, to be a swing state with a boatload of electorals.
I'd vote there.

 

[pensivepoet]

A for instance:
The last time New York went red was for Dewey. (NY Governor)
Obama beat Romney by 28%.
Hillary was a Senator there for 8 yrs.
Sanders is from Brooklyn.
If you're a republican in NY, why in the hell would you even bother to vote?
It's already decided, and your vote won't matter.
Just the way it is.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The game, on the Republican side, doesn't favor Trump any more than anyone else concerning pledged delegates. Winner-take-all rules, or winner-take-most, are fair to everyone running, and that's why Trump is ahead. He has gotten more votes in those states. The general election in November will be decided almost entirely by winner-take-all rules.

The issue here isn't really whether or not if favors one man over another. Not really. It's that Trump is bitching about a system being rigged and said system has given him proportionally more than he has earned.

You didn't address the issue of a dem voting in a state sure to go rep or vice versa.
Their vote will not count.
I appreciate your math but I stick to my simple logic that all votes should count.
My mind just works that way.

I don't disagree with the point that every vote should count. But I'm not so vain as to pretend I don't think that way because it would pretty much make my state God and most of the rest oc the country could suck a dick. As it stands as long as the North East and West Coast stand we just have to snag a few random things from fly over land. And God help all Conservatives when Texas turns purpple. It doesn't even need to be solid blue. The moment that becomes an 'if' state it's gonna snowball immediately.

 

[pensivepoet]

The issue here isn't really whether or not if favors one man over another. Not really. It's that Trump is bitching about a system being rigged and said system has given him proportionally more than he has earned.



I don't disagree with the point that every vote should count. But I'm not so vain as to pretend I don't think that way because it would pretty much make my state God and most of the rest oc the country could suck a dick. As it stands as long as the North East and West Coast stand we just have to snag a few random things from fly over land. And God help all Conservatives when Texas turns purpple. It doesn't even need to be solid blue. The moment that becomes an 'if' state it's gonna snowball immediately.

I'll be amazed if tx goes anywhere near blue.
I spend a lot of time all over tx and I don't feel the blue love.
They're all pretty much holed up in Austin, and a small underground pocket in Dallas.
I can find no one else that will admit blue openly.
The TexMexes ain't talkin.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

A for instance:
The last time New York went red was for Dewey. (NY Governor)
Obama beat Romney by 28%.
Hillary was a Senator there for 8 yrs.
Sanders is from Brooklyn.
If you're a republican in NY, why in the hell would you even bother to vote?
It's already decided, and your vote won't matter.
Just the way it is.

To play devil's advocate, there is a rebublican governor across the river in Jersey.

 

[toubab]

The issue here isn't really whether or not if favors one man over another. Not really. It's that Trump is bitching about a system being rigged and said system has given him proportionally more than he has earned.

I don't see how anyone can deny the system is rigged. In both major parties.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'll be amazed if tx goes anywhere near blue.
I spend a lot of time all over tx and I don't feel the blue love.
They're all pretty much holed up in Austin, and a small underground pocket in Dallas.
I can find no one else that will admit blue openly.
The TexMexes ain't talkin.

It's pretty close to inevitable at present. No minority votes Republican and Latino voters are rapidly expanding in population. Assuming nothing changes it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect it in the next 10 years but eventually.

I don't see how anyone can deny the system is rigged. In both major parties.

AGain, that's hardly the point being made. The point being made is that the biggest bitch has nothing to complain about. If the system weren't rigged he wouldn't be where he is.