Heteroflexible, not full bisexual

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

I'm currently writing a story that opens with a fairly intense male masturbation scene. The aim is to bring it close to what might best be described as a "horror" tone — he is wrestling with an inner darkness. As a result, there's quite a lot of anatomical detail, which I think is absolutely necessary to convey the right feeling. He is becoming self-obsessed, expressing a genuine lust for himself.

Personally, I think this is a sexy scene, but I'm probably a bit more exploratory than most guys. I'm thinking of opening the story with a "warning" that it contains "heteroflexible" content, such as DVP/DAP where the focus is as much on the guys feeling each other as it is on them being inside a woman (and, later, transgender women), though nothing explicitly bisexual (that is to say, no m/m sex). I guess I'm trying to thread a needle here, and the risk is that no one walks away happy — a reader looking for full-on bi content will think it's too tame, and a more 'traditional' reader will be icked out.

Does a 'market' for the middle-ground exist on Lit? What are the appropriate mitigations to ensure I respect readers' boundaries while attracting the right crowd?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm currently writing a story that opens with a fairly intense male masturbation scene. The aim is to bring it close to what might best be described as a "horror" tone — he is wrestling with an inner darkness. As a result, there's quite a lot of anatomical detail, which I think is absolutely necessary to convey the right feeling. He is becoming self-obsessed, expressing a genuine lust for himself.

Personally, I think this is a sexy scene, but I'm probably a bit more exploratory than most guys. I'm thinking of opening the story with a "warning" that it contains "heteroflexible" content, such as DVP/DAP where the focus is as much on the guys feeling each other as it is on them being inside a woman (and, later, transgender women), though nothing explicitly bisexual (that is to say, no m/m sex). I guess I'm trying to thread a needle here, and the risk is that no one walks away happy — a reader looking for full-on bi content will think it's too tame, and a more 'traditional' reader will be icked out.

Does a 'market' for the middle-ground exist on Lit? What are the appropriate mitigations to ensure I respect readers' boundaries while attracting the right crowd?

Choose your category carefully, is all I can say. You've not given us much of an idea of the overall erotic theme of the story, so it's difficult to suggest a category where it might fly and not attract too much homophobia.

There's a real fear of the faintest suggestion of man on man sex here on Lit, unless it's carefully corralled. Which sucks, but there it is.

 

[Dancefactory]

Hmm. First, I think it’s good service for the reader to ”warn” about explicit content like noncon or incest. If for no other reason, just to save you from 1-bombs.

That said, I think heterosexuality is about the beauty of male and female body. Hot masturbation scene is definitely part of it. Men touching each other - it depends. I think it can be really hot for some female readers, and if it’s about the beauty of the male body, it shouldn’t be too disturbing for hetero men either.

Third, there are readers that want to see the same scene or kink over and over again. And then there are readers who value opening up something new. I count myself in the latter group and would be interested to see such scene.

Would it be possible to see some parts of the story?

 

[anthrodisiac]

I'm newer at this site, so Lit-specific questions aren't quite my forte. However, reader psychology has always been a bit of a fascination of mine (psych major, can't be helped), and getting into their heads is a really useful tool for authors. Other people might be able to offer more definitive answers on specifically whether this content has a "market" and whether or not it will "attract the right crowd."

I don't see any reason why you would need to include a warning. You've already hit on why: having the warning is going to immediately put off certain people, and I think you can let the work stand for itself in this regard. Readers can drop out of a story at any point, you're not forcing them to read it.

I think as erotica writers, especially ones who are writing less normative works (like, say, me), part of the goal is to pull in people who normally wouldn't consider the kink/niche/fetish, but to do it in a way that at least makes them more open to it. Having warnings is going to push away readers who might have otherwise finished the content if you'd simply let them explore and discover it on their own.

The deeper someone gets into the story, the more sunk cost they incur by not finishing it. Some people aren't bothered by it, others will reach a certain point, and even if they come across something that's not totally to their liking, you might have already hooked them with some other aspect. Sex isn't the only thing your story has to offer, there are other elements that someone who maybe isn't into that kink would find appealing, whether it's the story, characters, what have you.

The only times I think warnings are really needed are when you have truly triggering content (non-con, trauma, violence, etc.). But if you really are concerned, then maybe add a list of tags in the author note. Not as a warning, more of a heads-up, here's what you can expect sort of deal. By making it a warning, you're implying that the content is more intense than maybe it should be, which could be annoying for someone who sees that, is interested, and then feels let down when it's not actually that strong of an element.

If your concern is having a whiff of GM content will put a lot of people off, as @ElectricBlue mentioned about half a second before I hit post (), then that's certainly something to consider as well. Still not sure you really need a warning label on that, but EB knows this site a hell of a lot better than I do

Also might want to consider who "the right crowd" even is in this context? I'm assuming you mean people who will enjoy the story most, but I don't think you need to limit your thinking just to those to whom the kink is most appealing. I write non-human, but I try to do so in a way that's still appealing more broadly on a story level to those who aren't really into anthros. As I mentioned, it's a good way to introduce people to a new kink/fetish, and if your characters and story are compelling, then a lot of readers will be able to look past the fact that the sexual content "isn't their thing" and evaluate your story on the merits. And who knows, maybe you'll nudge a few people onto a fetish they didn't realize they enjoyed.
Those have been some of my favorite comments, when someone says they didn't realize they were into anthros or furries until they read something of mine.

Just some things to consider. Probably some reptition but I can't sleep and it's nearly 3:30 AM, so take all of that with a grain of salt

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

Choose your category carefully, is all I can say. You've not given us much of an idea of the overall erotic theme of the story, so it's difficult to suggest a category where it might fly and not attract too much homophobia.

There's a real fear of the faintest suggestion of man on man sex here on Lit, unless it's carefully corralled. Which sucks, but there it is.

So, there is an aspect of a father reconnecting with his son, but in probably the most toxic way possible (he tries to lure him back home with someone who is effectively a prostitute). In that sense, there's a case to be made for T/I as the ultimate trump category should apply, which actually simplifies the category question for me, but also drives me into a corner in terms of available audience (alternatively, group makes sense as there are two scenes with 3+ participants).

Would it be possible to see some parts of the story?

Here's a very broad taste (excerpts from a rough draft, written a few hours ago):

I looked like a fucking medieval king, and I felt like one too.

My cock stirred to life, firming into a rock-hard erection. I started stroking, my mind utterly fixated on the thought of her blue eyes and platinum hair. I was consumed by her smile. Her body.

My movements were slow, indulgent. It's like I was teasing out a darkness inside me — something I never knew existed. This darkness had driven me over the last few hours, bestowing an unnatural energy that made me insatiable.

...

My balls were full and heavy. My lips opened slightly, spit cascading down my chin as I wrangled that immense lust. I started thrusting my hips. I closed my eyes and tried to catch my breath, but I simply couldn't stop. Slapping my own ass, I gripped the soft flesh, roaring like a bear.

Still, my mind was on Kylie.

I was now tugging my cock with both hands as I hurtled towards a climax, moving so fast it hurt. I roared again, throwing my head back as wads of cum shot against the window.

As you can see, his mind is very much on a woman, but his body is also very much the focus.

 

[Ianus4]

The deeper someone gets into the story, the more sunk cost they incur by not finishing it. Some people aren't bothered by it, others will reach a certain point, and even if they come across something that's not totally to their liking, you might have already hooked them with some other aspect. Sex isn't the only thing your story has to offer, there are other elements that someone who maybe isn't into that kink would find appealing, whether it's the story, characters, what have you.

On the other hand, the deeper someone delves into the story, the more time and emotion they invest in it, the angrier they become when they encounter something that repels them. This could be violence, incest, cuckolding, polyamory, ENM, but yes, even GM. Precisely in order to avoid bombings, it is advisable to mention these at the beginning of the story (and in the case of multiple chapters, at the beginning of the first chapter).

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

On the other hand, the deeper someone delves into the story, the more time and emotion they invest in it, the angrier they become when they encounter something that repels them. This could be violence, incest, cuckolding, polyamory, ENM, but yes, even GM. Precisely in order to avoid bombings, it is advisable to mention these at the beginning of the story (and in the case of multiple chapters, at the beginning of the first chapter).

That would be my leaning. There is also the nuclear option: use an alt account if the content departs significantly from my usual stuff.

I wonder if that's not the right approach... It would give me more freedom and less worry.

 

[Ianus4]

That would be my leaning. There is also the nuclear option: use an alt account if the content departs significantly from my usual stuff.

I wonder if that's not the right approach... It would give me more freedom and less worry.

I don't think an alternative account is necessarily the right way to go. For example, @NoTalentHack made a name for himself on LW, yet he has now published a wonderful story about the love between a cis man and a trans man: Transitional. It seems that with the appropriate warnings at the beginning of the story, it works.

 

[yowser]

I personally loathe the prelude warnings in a story - please I'm an adult reader, don't speak to me that way, let ME decide whether the story is worth a look. And you've lost that precious 'first impressions' chance to lure your reader in to your tale.

Do your tag due diligence and if you're still really worried, make sure your title/description combo gives a hint of what to expect.

And, as others have said, category choice...

 

[Rob_Royale]

Why come up with a new label? Bi-sexuality is a sliding scale. If you describe the character well and how they feel about contact with another man, there's no need to relabel it.

 

[Carnevil9]

You mention a "horror" tone for your story, or at least that one scene. I think if you aim the entire story for the horror category, nobody will be too squicked out. After all, that's what we read horror for in the first place, right? To deliberately make ourselves feel a little bit uneasy. And to explore the underlying reasons for the unease.

 

[lovecraft68]

You mention a "horror" tone for your story, or at least that one scene. I think if you aim the entire story for the horror category, nobody will be too squicked out. After all, that's what we read horror for in the first place, right? To deliberately make ourselves feel a little bit uneasy. And to explore the underlying reasons for the unease.

I got this image of a 50's style movie poster with a giant lotion drenched hand and the title "The Load that should never be blown!"

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

You mention a "horror" tone for your story, or at least that one scene. I think if you aim the entire story for the horror category, nobody will be too squicked out. After all, that's what we read horror for in the first place, right? To deliberately make ourselves feel a little bit uneasy. And to explore the underlying reasons for the unease.

That's the idea that probably appeals to me most — leaning into the "grotesque" aspect of self-obsession. I think I'm at a stage where I've got the luxury of not having committed to category yet, but I still have a general storyline and tone in mind.

It'll be interesting to lean into horror with this story while I work on my next draft for the romance category.

 

[BellaBestia]

That's the idea that probably appeals to me most — leaning into the "grotesque" aspect of self-obsession. I think I'm at a stage where I've got the luxury of not having committed to category yet, but I still have a general storyline and tone in mind.

It'll be interesting to lean into horror with this story while I work on my next draft for the romance category.

If your intent is to explore the grotesque, like David Cronenberg’s body horror, you can put your story under horror. Sexual acts that deviate from the “norm” but serve the theme of a self-obsessed character experiencing body horror and grotesquery would fit if not be expected in that category. Difficult to execute and may not get the numbers of views you like, but I think the regular readers of that category would be more open to your story than elsewhere.

 

[Britva415]

I'm currently writing a story that opens with a fairly intense male masturbation scene. The aim is to bring it close to what might best be described as a "horror" tone — he is wrestling with an inner darkness. As a result, there's quite a lot of anatomical detail, which I think is absolutely necessary to convey the right feeling. He is becoming self-obsessed, expressing a genuine lust for himself.

Personally, I think this is a sexy scene, but I'm probably a bit more exploratory than most guys. I'm thinking of opening the story with a "warning" that it contains "heteroflexible" content, such as DVP/DAP where the focus is as much on the guys feeling each other as it is on them being inside a woman (and, later, transgender women), though nothing explicitly bisexual (that is to say, no m/m sex). I guess I'm trying to thread a needle here, and the risk is that no one walks away happy — a reader looking for full-on bi content will think it's too tame, and a more 'traditional' reader will be icked out.

Does a 'market' for the middle-ground exist on Lit? What are the appropriate mitigations to ensure I respect readers' boundaries while attracting the right crowd?

Just put it in the masturbation category. Don't put it into either a "hetero" category or a "homo" category. Tag it with "bi" and "heteroflexible" and with whatever specific sex acts are in the fantasy: DVP, DAP, frottage, whatever

 

[redgarters]

Honestly, I would leave out the warning. Guys watch DA/VP porn without getting spooked about the dicks touching. You'd think they could then read it too. If masturbation and dicks touching while penetrating a woman are the totality of m/m contact/attraction in the story, just tag it DVP/DAP and let nature take it's course. It there's actual m/m sexual touching/attraction then tag it bisexual. It's a sliding scale. Heteroflexible is just another way of not calling bisexuality what it is.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Heteroflexible is just another way of not calling bisexuality what it is.

I could see using it when someone is heterosexual and bi-romantic. But that's probably even rarer than just being a tiny bit bi.

 

[redgarters]

I could see using it when someone is heterosexual and bi-romantic. But that's probably even rarer than just being a tiny bit bi.

Good point.

 

[Imstillfun]

I used to describe myself as bi-playful. In the right fun circumstances I’m down.