Hidden Meanings in Secretary

[the captians wench]

ummm No...

to rose & I we are the perfect example, but that don't mean it would work for others.

The lifestyle is how we live it... *shrugz*

. .

 

[Bandit58]

Hi,

I saw the film for the first time last night as well. I thought the worm was wierd at first but then later in the film I realised that what she was actually doing was setting the balls rolling again. She was kind of giving him the consent to spank her again. The first time it happened, she made mistakes and her boss highlighted them with his red marker. So this was the trigger. This is a good starting place in which to start a roleplay game like this.

Changing the subject a bit though...I thought some of the scenes were a little too hardcore. I had my flatmate in the next room and he's not into all this fetish stuff. At several times I had to turn the volume right down in fear that he'd hear. I also can't believe they put this film on our TV airwaves since that type of thing is illegal isn't it?

Domination, bondage, submission, slave play (because it's confused with real slavery), and bdsm - they're all likely to put you in trouble if you persue them in most countries. And yet this content is shown in lots of films and in many video games - take the GTA series as an example. San Andreas has some S/M in it and so does Liberty City.

Don't get me wrong, but I happen to find it quite a turn-on myself. But when I'm trying to walk away from these fetishes, the last thing I want is to see them on display in some film or in some computer game. Especially when they're supposed to be dirty, perverse and bordering on what's legal and what's not.

Does anyone else see this? Do you see what I'm getting at?

I'm sorry to change the subject but I'm confused!

So why did you watch it then? If something on tv or in a video game offends you then there's always the option to change the channel or turn it off as incubus' sub said. I don't want to walk away from my "fetishes", I want to embrace and understand them that's why I am here and on other BDSM websites.

I spent way too many years denying and not understanding my submissiveness. I now have a Master/Husband who I love very much. We are not "hardcore" but we live a D/s lifestyle.

I saw the video of Secretary last year.....as others have said it didn't really go into it enough, and the fact that she was portrayed as a cutter disturbed me a little, it implied that submissives have to have something mentally wrong with them to want to be in the lifestyle

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I saw the video of Secretary last year.....as others have said it didn't really go into it enough, and the fact that she was portrayed as a cutter disturbed me a little, it implied that submissives have to have something mentally wrong with them to want to be in the lifestyle

That is the same thing My babyb says about the flick.

And the first time she saw it, she HATED E Edward Grey, but with repeated watching she understands that it was about his journey as well.

 

[FurryFury]

That is the same thing My babyb says about the flick.

And the first time she saw it, she HATED E Edward Grey, but with repeated watching she understands that it was about his journey as well.

I didn't like him either.

Fury

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I didn't like him either.

Fury

I saw it before she did, and I warned her that his character was not a great portrayal of a Dominant. As I said above he was way to indecisive.

 

[naxalite0906]

I saw it before she did, and I warned her that his character was not a great portrayal of a Dominant. As I said above he was way to indecisive.

This is what i meant about finding his behaviour a little weird. It was the indecisiveness that got me too.. He needed more to the character.

I didnt find the cutting thing a good idea too.. As it has already been said, it suggests subs have a psychological problem.. esp to people who arent open minded.

 

[naxalite0906]

The Worm = Phallic symbolism

This was one of the ideas I thought of too... Maybe i understood, saw and realised more than I first thought.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I didn't like him either.

Fury

after watching a couple of times..i realized He was confused about His feelings/needs to be a Dominant and that as Master said, it was about His journey as well as hers. i still never agreed with alot of the things he did..and thought that before He took 'control' of her, he should have been in more control of himself..but i do love the movie and all of it's symbolism....

 

[FurryFury]

after watching a couple of times..i realized He was confused about His feelings/needs to be a Dominant and that as Master said, it was about His journey as well as hers. i still never agreed with alot of the things he did..and thought that before He took 'control' of her, he should have been in more control of himself..but i do love the movie and all of it's symbolism....

I got that right off. I too thought what kind of person does shit like this and doesn't know what he is doing? It just flew in the face of my fantasies about Doms entirely. LOL. Frankly I thought his character was way too uptight in a lot of areas. I'm simply not into that kind of anal.

OTOH, it got my husband going that night in a direction I certainly appreciated.


Fury

 

[Penalt]

after watching a couple of times..i realized He was confused about His feelings/needs to be a Dominant and that as Master said, it was about His journey as well as hers. i still never agreed with alot of the things he did..and thought that before He took 'control' of her, he should have been in more control of himself..but i do love the movie and all of it's symbolism....

Agreed. I thought that the movie showed two deeply flawed people, doing the best that they could do but barely functioning in the world. When they found themselves togeather they 'clicked'. The two flawed halves began to match up.

The woman discovers a kindred spirit and a way to deal with her damage. The man however, is fearful, scared, and so pulls away. Through the perserverance of the woman the man final realizes that through her, he too can heal, as she has begun to heal through him. Togeather, two broken, hurting people come to find happiness and even joy. Not as two broken individuals, but as one strong whole.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Agreed. I thought that the movie showed two deeply flawed people, doing the best that they could do but barely functioning in the world. When they found themselves togeather they 'clicked'. The two flawed halves began to match up.

The woman discovers a kindred spirit and a way to deal with her damage. The man however, is fearful, scared, and so pulls away. Through the perserverance of the woman the man final realizes that through her, he too can heal, as she has begun to heal through him. Togeather, two broken, hurting people come to find happiness and even joy. Not as two broken individuals, but as one strong whole.

VERY interesting take...and i had not really thought of it like that before..but i have to agree...thank you!! what an awesome way to look at it. i love this thread

 

[neonflux]

Agreed. I thought that the movie showed two deeply flawed people, doing the best that they could do but barely functioning in the world. When they found themselves togeather they 'clicked'. The two flawed halves began to match up.

The woman discovers a kindred spirit and a way to deal with her damage. The man however, is fearful, scared, and so pulls away. Through the perserverance of the woman the man final realizes that through her, he too can heal, as she has begun to heal through him. Togeather, two broken, hurting people come to find happiness and even joy. Not as two broken individuals, but as one strong whole.

This is absolutely my take on the film, which I adore. I also think it's about the strength of submission and the beauty and courage of submissives.

Neon

 

[Mamid]

I also can't believe they put this film on our TV airwaves since that type of thing is illegal isn't it?

You should see what they have on Canadian TV, especially on Fridays. We call it "free porn day!" There's a show called "Kink" and I have met some of the people in it. There was also a show called "Barely Cooking." The blonde was a hottie even for me!

She was kind of giving him the consent to spank her again.

He was freaking out thinking he had gone too far and he needed her permission to restart that part of the relationship. Sounds like a relationship I know all too well too.

But when I'm trying to walk away from these fetishes, the last thing I want is to see them on display in some film or in some computer game.

I don't think you can ever walk away from "the scene." Be a fringer, yes, but bdsm/kink/whatever out of your lifestyle completely? Can't happen.

Cutters cut for many of reasons but it was potrayed that she did so to feel real pain in order to overcome the emotional and mental pain that her family put upon her.

Cutters cut in order to feel something, anything. They are, and I've had many conversations with them, numb to the point of nothingness. Nothing touches them. Psychiatrists are known to take those that have the cutter diagnosis, specifically with one DSMIV diagnosis in particular, and either refuse to treat them or refuse to because they are "impossible" to treat. Too demanding. Too wanting and more. The way I see it, she was looking for a thread to hold onto because her family didn't think she could do it at all and worse yet, they were the ones holding the scissors! She wanted to reweave her sanity and they were there trying to destroy it.

I now have a Master/Husband who I love very much. We are not "hardcore" but we live a D/s lifestyle.

Bandit58, you and I need to talk. PM me, k?

I saw the video of Secretary last year.....as others have said it didn't really go into it enough, and the fact that she was portrayed as a cutter disturbed me a little, it implied that submissives have to have something mentally wrong with them to want to be in the lifestyle.

I saw it as just part of her, but it wasn't all of her. She was in pain from something and wanted to heal, but didn't know where to start on her own. She needed guidance and you know what, family isn't always where to start.

And the first time she saw it, she HATED E Edward Grey, but with repeated watching she understands that it was about his journey as well.

I picked that up the first time I saw it. He wanted someone to guide, but couldn't find the right person. She needed guidance, but couldn't find the right jockey.

I warned her that his character was not a great portrayal of a Dominant. As I said above he was way to indecisive.

He's what could be called a "baby dom." Wanting it, but not sure how to do it. Just like a little baby wants to walk but has to go through all these other steps and phases before those ten little toes take their first steps.

Agreed. I thought that the movie showed two deeply flawed people, doing the best that they could do but barely functioning in the world. When they found themselves togeather they 'clicked'. The two flawed halves began to match up.

Hmm... sounds so similar, I can't think of where you would have gotten that idea, luv... *grin*

I liked the secretary. Then there's Titanic. Yet another woman who is reaching for her last thread to keep her from giving everything up.

 

[Etoile]

Oh great, just what I need - another Secretary thread to get me all hot and bothered.

But then I'm planning to watch In the Realm of the Senses tonight, so I may be starting my own movie thread soon!

 

[naxalite0906]

VERY interesting take...and i had not really thought of it like that before..but i have to agree...thank you!! what an awesome way to look at it. i love this thread

There was me thinking i was being silly for starting it... im glad its got you going too

 

[naxalite0906]

Oh great, just what I need - another Secretary thread to get me all hot and bothered.

But then I'm planning to watch In the Realm of the Senses tonight, so I may be starting my own movie thread soon!

Sorry etoile... nothing wrong with being hot and bothered...

Maybe you can reccomend me some more films along a similar line..

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I've seen a lot of really good discussion on this thread about the background and development of the characters in Secretary. And even though Spader's character, Grey, is not an easy one to like, I really appreciate that several of you recognized the "baby dom" in him and the struggles he went through to grow out of the conditioning that society slaps on us from the time we are old enough to listen.

When I saw Secretary for the first time I was at the local art-house theater with a bunch of fellow kinksters. At the end most of us were giving the flic a standing ovation. Secretary's Grey told _my_ emotional story. How this was such a huge strong part of me, but I didn't have the vocabulary or the right partner to learn it with. I was isolated, hurting, needing, and I didn't understand WHY until I was introduced to the BDSM scene.

I had to be validated, supported, educated. I need to un-learn the rules I had been conditioned with for 35+ years, and learn a new way to approach relationships. I'm grateful that I had a friend who trusted me enough to bring me into this part of her life and open the door to a whole new community.

God knows the internal struggles I had to go through to get where I am today. Secretary's Grey showed my journey, where I was before I found BDSM, how I struggled with my desires and needs, and finally coming to accept and embrace my inner sadist.

I can't say that Lee's journey touched me the same way, but I recognized the symbolism in her cutting, the growth of her character as she recognized and embraced her inner submissiveness and masochism, how she spent time and energy and effort learning about this lifestyle (next time you watch it, pay close attention to the books Lee is reading. They are the right ones!).

Yes, the characters are deeply flawed. But then again, aren't we all? And they both grow and change and heal over the course of the story. It ain't a perfect BDSM movie, but to my old eyes, it portrays the reality of BDSM relationships better than any other Hollywood movie ever has. It takes liberties and uses creative license to tell the story and make it's points, but there is an underlying emotional truth in the story that reaches out and touches many of us because it is telling OUR stories up there on the big screen.

I love it! I own it on DVD. It's the first (and only) DVD that I ever hunted down and bought on Release Day. No other movie has touched me in that way. *grins and shrugs*

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Cafe' chaos...

 

[naxalite0906]

I've seen a lot of really good discussion on this thread about the background and development of the characters in Secretary. And even though Spader's character, Grey, is not an easy one to like, I really appreciate that several of you recognized the "baby dom" in him and the struggles he went through to grow out of the conditioning that society slaps on us from the time we are old enough to listen.

When I saw Secretary for the first time I was at the local art-house theater with a bunch of fellow kinksters. At the end most of us were giving the flic a standing ovation. Secretary's Grey told _my_ emotional story. How this was such a huge strong part of me, but I didn't have the vocabulary or the right partner to learn it with. I was isolated, hurting, needing, and I didn't understand WHY until I was introduced to the BDSM scene.

I had to be validated, supported, educated. I need to un-learn the rules I had been conditioned with for 35+ years, and learn a new way to approach relationships. I'm grateful that I had a friend who trusted me enough to bring me into this part of her life and open the door to a whole new community.

God knows the internal struggles I had to go through to get where I am today. Secretary's Grey showed my journey, where I was before I found BDSM, how I struggled with my desires and needs, and finally coming to accept and embrace my inner sadist.

I can't say that Lee's journey touched me the same way, but I recognized the symbolism in her cutting, the growth of her character as she recognized and embraced her inner submissiveness and masochism, how she spent time and energy and effort learning about this lifestyle (next time you watch it, pay close attention to the books Lee is reading. They are the right ones!).

Yes, the characters are deeply flawed. But then again, aren't we all? And they both grow and change and heal over the course of the story. It ain't a perfect BDSM movie, but to my old eyes, it portrays the reality of BDSM relationships better than any other Hollywood movie ever has. It takes liberties and uses creative license to tell the story and make it's points, but there is an underlying emotional truth in the story that reaches out and touches many of us because it is telling OUR stories up there on the big screen.

I love it! I own it on DVD. It's the first (and only) DVD that I ever hunted down and bought on Release Day. No other movie has touched me in that way. *grins and shrugs*

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Cafe' chaos...

Thanks for the input..

 

[neonflux]

Oh great, just what I need - another Secretary thread to get me all hot and bothered.

But then I'm planning to watch In the Realm of the Senses tonight, so I may be starting my own movie thread soon!

Ah, "In the Realm of the Senses!" This is one of my great favorites. And such a groundbreaking work when it was produced. Would be interested to know what you think!

Neon

 

[ewriter]

Glad I found this thread, I taped secretary when it was on TV on thursday, but stupidly left my DVD recorder on SP (2hr) mode so as the film is 2hr and 5mins with adverts I missed the very end. Could someone tell me hpw it ended. I got up to the bit where she was collapsed on the desk after sitting there for days, he comes in and gives her a drink before picking up up. Just as he was walking out carrying her my DVD cut out. Please someone let me know how it ended! I have to say the film was quite a bit tamer than I thought it would be. I did enjoy it, but more on an intellectual level than a sexual one.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I've seen a lot of really good discussion on this thread about the background and development of the characters in Secretary. And even though Spader's character, Grey, is not an easy one to like, I really appreciate that several of you recognized the "baby dom" in him and the struggles he went through to grow out of the conditioning that society slaps on us from the time we are old enough to listen.

When I saw Secretary for the first time I was at the local art-house theater with a bunch of fellow kinksters. At the end most of us were giving the flic a standing ovation. Secretary's Grey told _my_ emotional story. How this was such a huge strong part of me, but I didn't have the vocabulary or the right partner to learn it with. I was isolated, hurting, needing, and I didn't understand WHY until I was introduced to the BDSM scene.

I had to be validated, supported, educated. I need to un-learn the rules I had been conditioned with for 35+ years, and learn a new way to approach relationships. I'm grateful that I had a friend who trusted me enough to bring me into this part of her life and open the door to a whole new community.

God knows the internal struggles I had to go through to get where I am today. Secretary's Grey showed my journey, where I was before I found BDSM, how I struggled with my desires and needs, and finally coming to accept and embrace my inner sadist.

I can't say that Lee's journey touched me the same way, but I recognized the symbolism in her cutting, the growth of her character as she recognized and embraced her inner submissiveness and masochism, how she spent time and energy and effort learning about this lifestyle (next time you watch it, pay close attention to the books Lee is reading. They are the right ones!).

Yes, the characters are deeply flawed. But then again, aren't we all? And they both grow and change and heal over the course of the story. It ain't a perfect BDSM movie, but to my old eyes, it portrays the reality of BDSM relationships better than any other Hollywood movie ever has. It takes liberties and uses creative license to tell the story and make it's points, but there is an underlying emotional truth in the story that reaches out and touches many of us because it is telling OUR stories up there on the big screen.

I love it! I own it on DVD. It's the first (and only) DVD that I ever hunted down and bought on Release Day. No other movie has touched me in that way. *grins and shrugs*

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Cafe' chaos...

NEver thought of it like that....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Glad I found this thread, I taped secretary when it was on TV on thursday, but stupidly left my DVD recorder on SP (2hr) mode so as the film is 2hr and 5mins with adverts I missed the very end. Could someone tell me hpw it ended. I got up to the bit where she was collapsed on the desk after sitting there for days, he comes in and gives her a drink before picking up up. Just as he was walking out carrying her my DVD cut out. Please someone let me know how it ended! I have to say the film was quite a bit tamer than I thought it would be. I did enjoy it, but more on an intellectual level than a sexual one.

i recommend renting the movie..because i'm betting, being that it was on 'TV' ALOT of the good parts were not there. the ending is my favorite part of the whole movie! i cry every single time i watch it, but i can't give it away *grins* go rent it!!

 

[lil_slave_rose]

There was me thinking i was being silly for starting it... im glad its got you going too

not silly at all! i love getting the views from everyone else on this movie..lot's of interesting views thanks again for starting the thread

 

[MasterPhoenix]

i recommend renting the movie..because i'm betting, being that it was on 'TV' ALOT of the good parts were not there. the ending is my favorite part of the whole movie! i cry every single time i watch it, but i can't give it away *grins* go rent it!!

Yep, you do....

That was the part that reminded you of us.

 

[myinnerslut]

Glad I found this thread, I taped secretary when it was on TV on thursday, but stupidly left my DVD recorder on SP (2hr) mode so as the film is 2hr and 5mins with adverts I missed the very end. Could someone tell me hpw it ended. I got up to the bit where she was collapsed on the desk after sitting there for days, he comes in and gives her a drink before picking up up. Just as he was walking out carrying her my DVD cut out. Please someone let me know how it ended! I have to say the film was quite a bit tamer than I thought it would be. I did enjoy it, but more on an intellectual level than a sexual one.

he takes her back to his house, bathes her, cleans her up. he says something like "we cant't do this all the time" and she responds sonething along the lines of "why not?". then they get married, pretty much the end.

personally, i didnt like it. i watched it with my roomate and her bf (both non-kinky). i didnt find that it was a good reflection of the way i practice D/s and i got very upset with Lee for the whole worm bit. screamed topping from the bottom.