High-plot or low-plot (or somewhere in between)

[PennyThompson]

When I read "High-Plot/Low-Plot," my brain went to the difference between High Church (emphasis on liturgy, ceremony, structure) and Low Church (emphasis on participation, relationships, feelings)... I didn't see it as a value judgement

I'm not sure if that spectrum resonates for me all that well though... Most of my stories are what I think of as "slice of life," but a few of them are definitely more complex in scope (Sexy Women in your Galaxy, Dandelion Greene). And I can tell that they're a different kind of story when I'm thinking about them and writing them, but I'm not sure how I would label that difference?

 

[TheRedChamber]

I'm not sure that there is an easy 'metric' for how much plot something has. I was going to be flippant and say that my 750-word stories have 750 words of plot, while my 20k stories have 20ks worth, but then I suppose there is a lot of other things you could be spending those words on - such as dialogue or descriptions (or, Lit being Lit, gratuitous sex scenes) I'm not sure what a quantum of plot is - one of the lectures I watched recently about plotting suggests it might be anywhere in your synopsis where you can either say 'yes, but...' or 'no, and...' It may be a character taking a firm action as a result of external stimulous or internal motivation. No idea.

A lot of my stories are heavily plot-driven. So much so that a while back I dedicated myself to writing a series of stories with the premise 'she wants it and has a one-step plan for how she's going to get it'. That was a good exercise but I was soon back to making things unnecessarily intricate.

 

[liliput1]

I'm not sure that there is an easy 'metric' for how much plot something has. I was going to be flippant and say that my 750-word stories have 750 words of plot, while my 20k stories have 20ks worth, but then I suppose there is a lot of other things you could be spending those words on - such as dialogue or descriptions (or, Lit being Lit, gratuitous sex scenes) I'm not sure what a quantum of plot is - one of the lectures I watched recently about plotting suggests it might be anywhere in your synopsis where you can either say 'yes, but...' or 'no, and...' It may be a character taking a firm action as a result of external stimulous or internal motivation. No idea.

A lot of my stories are heavily plot-driven. So much so that a while back I dedicated myself to writing a series of stories with the premise 'she wants it and has a one-step plan for how she's going to get it'. That was a good exercise but I was soon back to making things unnecessarily intricate.

There's also a lot of shorthand for situations that most of us either know first hand, second hand, or by reputation. You can unpack a whole tempest of drama with just, "my ex cheated on me with my best friend."

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Character arcs are a must for me, even if I didn't think about them when I first started writing. I would consider it bad writing if my (main) characters were exactly the same at the beginning and at the end of the story. There has to be some change, some growth.

When it comes to plot, I tend to make things interesting, even in my stories that are oriented more towards sex. I find slice-of-life stories boring. No offense to those who write them.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm not sure what terminology is most apt, but overall in my stories character comes second to plot. Long ago, I realised that I enjoy stories about exciting or dramatic (or funny, or sexy) events, and that stories about "people" bore me.

I don't mind characters responding to the events they experience, and I do enjoy stories with strong characters. But I prefer to read and write about the things they experience rather than what are often essentially drawn-out character sketches.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I don't mind characters responding to the events they experience, and I do enjoy stories with strong characters. But I prefer to read and write about the things they experience rather than what are often essentially drawn-out character sketches.

Ditto.

On this site, sometimes the things they experience boil down to, y'know, fucking. But still.

 

[AG31]

To be pendantic, it’s a continuum, not binary

What's the difference between spectrum and continuum?

 

[AG31]

Consider a spherical character in a vacuum, an infinite distance from any other character. Use the de Broglie equation to derive the plot. Show all your workings.

??????????????????????????????????

 

[AG31]

In any event, it's a false binary. Like just about everything to do with writing, there's a continuum, not a binary.

I think @EmilyMiller was quite clear that she was talking about a continuum (or spectrum...). She's too smart to ever assert a binary about anything, except, maybe 1s and 0s.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

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It's a physics joke. "Consider a spherical cow ..."

Emily is a scientist.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Emily is a scientist.

Was sadly

 

[EmilyMiller]

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As an ex-biologist, I really have no business making physics jokes

 

[TheWritingGroup]

As an ex-biologist, I really have no business making physics jokes

Maybe that's why I got it. I hold a couple of bio degrees.

 

[Bamagan]

I'm not sure that there is an easy 'metric' for how much plot something has. I was going to be flippant and say that my 750-word stories have 750 words of plot, while my 20k stories have 20ks worth, but then I suppose there is a lot of other things you could be spending those words on - such as dialogue or descriptions (or, Lit being Lit, gratuitous sex scenes) I'm not sure what a quantum of plot is - one of the lectures I watched recently about plotting suggests it might be anywhere in your synopsis where you can either say 'yes, but...' or 'no, and...' It may be a character taking a firm action as a result of external stimulous or internal motivation. No idea.

A lot of my stories are heavily plot-driven. So much so that a while back I dedicated myself to writing a series of stories with the premise 'she wants it and has a one-step plan for how she's going to get it'. That was a good exercise but I was soon back to making things unnecessarily intricate.

Since you refrained from flippancy, I'll take up the slack.

You traditionally measure plots with metes and bounds... or put another way, how the characters get together and what you don't want the story to be about. Such stories are therefore called cadastres (or cadasters).

Here in the US we've mostly moved to the lot and block system (AKA recorded plot system), which is useful for ensemble casts (there're a lot of characters) and how you block them from going off on tangents or exploring dubious themes.

Particularly high-conflict plots require Ordnance Grids, of course.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Maybe that's why I got it. I hold a couple of bio degrees.

Small world

 

[Nynah]

Labeling things "high-plot" vs. "low-plot" is needlessly pedantic and only complicates discussion by going in circles trying to agree on a definition for the purposes of this entirely arbitrary distinction.

You don't need to put things in a different bucket when the quite serviceable buckets of "plot-driven" and "character-driven" already exist. If you find yourself focusing more on plot even though you set out to write a character-driven story, guess what? You've written a plot-driven story. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

 

[PennyThompson]

Labeling things "high-plot" vs. "low-plot" is needlessly pedantic and only complicates discussion by going in circles trying to agree on a definition for the purposes of this entirely arbitrary distinction.

You don't need to put things in a different bucket when the quite serviceable buckets of "plot-driven" and "character-driven" already exist. If you find yourself focusing more on plot even though you set out to write a character-driven story, guess what? You've written a plot-driven story. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

We do love our frameworks though, Nynah... Show me a three-by-three grid with a loosely defined concept in each cell and I will subscribe to your substack

 

[NasoNocturne]

The high-plot/low-plot framework makes sense to me (accepting and ignoring the usual objections that could be made against all taxonomies). That said, it’s not quite how I ultimately categorize stories - it seems like more of a useful lens for discussing different stories.

I start from the belief that all authors intend to convey something, at least a feeling if not something more complex.

A story that is exceptionally high-plot asks me to take the backdrop that the author has provided and find feeling/meaning in my own interpretation of the events - sometimes the feeling/meaning is clear and sometimes more abstract and open to interpretation. A story that is low-plot offers me more insight into the author's point of view as projected through the characters and invites me to find feeling/meaning with either accepting or rejecting the character development.

Either works and honestly the only real success criteria for me in stories is that they made me feel something memorable. You could easily write a high-plot story that reads like a series of events with which I feel no emotional resonance and you could write a low-plot story where the character development is uninteresting BUT you could also right a high-plot story that causes me to constantly react to the events or a low-plot story where the character development/insights are intriguing.

Having said all of that, penis/pussy forward is the way to go.

 

[EmilyMiller]

penis/pussy forward is the way to go.

At the same time, right? In synchronicity.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What's the difference between spectrum and continuum?

Not much. Two different words for the same concept. Spectrum might have more distinct bands, like a rainbow, whereas with a continuum, it's harder to spot any internal transitions. There are probably more arcane differences, but I couldn't be bothered looking in a dictionary.

 

[dmallord]

Back to the penis-driven thing...

I’ve gotten a headache from the rest of this. Too old to digest it.

So, I think a penis-driven plot works. I liken the penis to a hammer and nail scenario. You can ‘hammer’ a penis so that the plot works.

I’m not sure you can hammer a vagina, though. That image doesn’t work in my frail mental state. More like ‘stir a vagina’ does come to mind.

Now… not to say that I’m remiss in leaving out the other openings as a slight. Maybe they have space and ownership in the discussion as well. Family peacekeeping here.

I harken back to a faint memory of a several-years-ago discussion with a member of this thread when I first started writing. The author encouraged me to broaden my learning/writing experiences. I recall one note from that dialogue that still resonates with me today. “The difference in our writings,” the author said, “is that if you take sex out of your stories, you still have a story."

That chord stuck with me forever and a day. It wasn’t about putting sex into a story. It was just something that got added to the story because it was lit and expected.

So high or low? Who knows? Best to just write a story and see how it resonates with the readership. My take.

 

[THBGato]

I think the ‘high-plot (e.g. me) vs low-plot (e.g. them)’ framework works better. Does this distinction resonate? And what type of stories do you typically write?

Ha! Funny: I thought you were going to go the other way around - e.g. "High" was all character driven, as it's about the inner-journey, the emotional growth. "High" as in high-brow: a lot of Kazuo Ishiguro's novels are like that (Never let me go; the remains of the day; Klara and the sun). I was thinking "low" as in low-brow, pulp fiction style stories with hoods, and broads, and gumshoes, etc.

Of course, high and low are quite loaded terms, as they imply value judgements. Character/plot driven is more neutral.

Interestingly, my most popular stories by far are those that are character driven. The more plot I introduce, the less readers seem to be interested. This may be about category. Check the Lesbian top list: it's all about women getting to know each other and grow into relationships. Very little that is out of the ordinary.

 

[ADirtyPerv]

As an ex-biologist, I really have no business making physics jokes

Ex-physicist here - the joke was funny. Nonsensical, but funny.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ha! Funny: I thought you were going to go the other way around - e.g. "High" was all character driven, as it's about the inner-journey, the emotional growth. "High" as in high-brow: a lot of Kazuo Ishiguro's novels are like that (Never let me go; the remains of the day; Klara and the sun). I was thinking "low" as in low-brow, pulp fiction style stories with hoods, and broads, and gumshoes, etc.

Of course, high and low are quite loaded terms, as they imply value judgements. Character/plot driven is more neutral.

Yes, that's what I baulked at, with my first reaction to Em's post.

Interestingly, my most popular stories by far are those that are character driven. The more plot I introduce, the less readers seem to be interested. This may be about category. Check the Lesbian top list: it's all about women getting to know each other and grow into relationships. Very little that is out of the ordinary.

Same, with Mature being my best stomping ground. Older man meets younger woman, mutual seduction commences. Location: city street or café vibe, then suburbia.

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

High plot, low plot, event driven, character driven; I am just trying to write good sexy time stories.
If it takes 1000 words of character development to get to some screaming orgasms, that wasn't really my intent.

But this is a hobby, not an income for me.