House cats - killers?

[JMohegan]

I agree that a well trained dog is a thing of beauty. But how many people bother with the training? Kids are cool too if trained but how many of them are running wild with no supervision?

I guess if you are emotionally needy a dog is the perfect pet. I just don't need that deep of a connection with an animal all of the time.

My brother in law has this really expensive German hunting dog. He's beautiful but it is just like having a 3 year old. You can't leave him and go upstairs not knowing what he is getting into. I know my cats are sleeping and I know the male will sleep until dusk. He might get up once or twice but his day is pretty much done.

I ran wild with no supervision as a kid. Didn't you?

Back in the day, the whole world was our playground. Well, the parts accessible on foot or by bike. Dad went to work, mom stayed in the house, we raced out to explore when we weren't in school.

Most kids don't do that today, and I find it eerie. Streets, whole neighborhoods, with no children in sight. Where are they? At day care, camp, or some other organized activity? Down in the basement clutching a controller? Hard to say.

 

[WriterDom]

I ran wild with no supervision as a kid. Didn't you?

Back in the day, the whole world was our playground. Well, the parts accessible on foot or by bike. Dad went to work, mom stayed in the house, we raced out to explore when we weren't in school.

Most kids don't do that today, and I find it eerie. Streets, whole neighborhoods, with no children in sight. Where are they? At day care, camp, or some other organized activity? Down in the basement clutching a controller? Hard to say.

Back when no one had computers and TV had 3 channels and you had to get up to change them. Why play army outside when you can blow shit up inside?

 

[JMohegan]

The one who was abused is actually very gentle and easy-going. Let's hope that's just his personality. The effects of the abuse seem to be that loud noises scare the shit out of him. Thunder is terrifying. The other one was just raised by some jerks who abandoned him. His instinct is still to jump at first or run away sometimes when we're walking but he does listen to Mister Man. (ETA - they were young though, just past puppy stage)

Ohh, is that an issue? Lol. WELCOME TO MY WORLD. I've been googling introducing cats and dogs for six months or something. We talked to the vet as well. So far we brought the dogs to my place, on leash, and let my cat come and check them out. My cat was basically like, hey, is that a dog? In my house? Bitch please I am going under the bed. (sauntering, not running) Hmm, is that a dog? In my house? Um, all right. Cool. Hey, dogs. Yeah, I'm going to go back to bed. Yawn.



My cat has always been aware that when adults are there he is safe. Anyway, I have a plan, but I'm feeling cautiously optimistic after this meeting. Basically, for the immediate future, cat has its own space in the house.

How did the dogs react to the cat?

My dogs have always been taught the difference between Friends, Enemies, Babies, and Creatures We Watch. That's not a grouping according to species. Humans may fall in any of the above categories. Babies aren't necessarily human. And so on.

I'm not sure what I'd teach my dog about a cat that lived inside a house. I guess it would depend on the individual cat.

If I introduced the cat as a "Baby," I'd be telling my dog that this is an animal he's not allowed to touch, and should try to protect. That makes sense for a docile, timid cat, I guess. Maybe. I don't know. Just thinking about this is making me realize how deep-seated my distrust is for all things feline.

 

[JMohegan]

Back when no one had computers and TV had 3 channels and you had to get up to change them. Why play army outside when you can blow shit up inside?

I don't get the appeal of video games, but I suppose that's it.

 

[intothewoods]

We've been warned about the kitty litter thing. Ick.

Oh, and JM - I also spent a lot of time outdoors as a kid. My main impression of cats based on the ones I encountered is that they like to sleep in the sun. We had one hunter-cat, and he brought us the occasional mouse. I would guess what's around makes a difference. There were some mice outside, but not all that many, and no bunnies. My cats would mostly do the whole stalking routine but not ever actually get anything.

Maybe the cats are all really mellow on the left coast.

I have two cats, GF has a dog. We are working up to that same thing, bringing her dog to my place to meet the cats.

One problem, her dog is a beagle so earplugs might be required....

The two against one thing might help. A lot depends on the personalities of the animals.

 

[Recidiva]

I ran wild with no supervision as a kid. Didn't you?

Back in the day, the whole world was our playground. Well, the parts accessible on foot or by bike. Dad went to work, mom stayed in the house, we raced out to explore when we weren't in school.

Most kids don't do that today, and I find it eerie. Streets, whole neighborhoods, with no children in sight. Where are they? At day care, camp, or some other organized activity? Down in the basement clutching a controller? Hard to say.

I have two kids. They're fine, thanks. It's 100 degrees out here a lot of the time and they're not forced outside out of boredom or being harassed out of the house by elder siblings like I was. They also have their own private spaces with lots of things to do, something I also lacked. I spent TONS of time outdoors as a kid, but it was often out of desperation and just needing to get away. Not what I really wanted to do.

They're not stunted or lacking for exercise or friendship. I did have to kick a lot of neighborhood kids out early on in my son's life because they weren't interested in being friends, they just wanted to play with his game systems.

So I am not sure the kids that are running around outside without supervision are all more healthy socially or physically. They seem awfully starved for entertainment to me.

I'm kinda proud they have a house they're comfortable in and they have lots to do there. I certainly didn't have that and I've gone out of my way to provide it.

Boredom and having no place of my own I could defend from my elder siblings was a huge factor of my childhood being unpleasant. Alleviating that for me in my kids is a priority.

We don't have a basement either, since it's Florida. But I can't even count how many controllers we have...

 

[intothewoods]

How did the dogs react to the cat?

My dogs have always been taught the difference between Friends, Enemies, Babies, and Creatures We Watch. That's not a grouping according to species. Humans may fall in any of the above categories. Babies aren't necessarily human. And so on.

I'm not sure what I'd teach my dog about a cat that lived inside a house. I guess it would depend on the individual cat.

If I introduced the cat as a "Baby," I'd be telling my dog that this is an animal he's not allowed to touch, and should try to protect. That makes sense for a docile, timid cat, I guess. Maybe. I don't know. Just thinking about this is making me realize how deep-seated my distrust is for all things feline.

The dogs basically reacted like - huh, cat. Curious, essentially. These dogs basically know friends v. enemies, I guess, and then they have always known to be gentle with kids. I think it was clear to them that this wasn't a thing racing through their yard, but something that belonged in the house.

I sorta gotta sense of that distrust after the stone-pelting post. I understand your point of view at this point, but I was really surprised to read that. For all of my joking that cats can't be trained, they really can be for some things. Or even more according to others who have posted. My cat does understand no and he does listen. He will play roughly with you if you engage in that with him, but he knows to be gentle with people who are not giving him the signs that they're up for some thrashing around. He has never scratched or bit kidlet in any way other than a warning, and kidlet knows that if he pokes or bothers the cat, the cat will scratch. Anyway, all that is to say that my cat will not harm the dogs unless the dogs really went after him. So we want to get the dogs to recognize that the cat belongs here and is not something that should be chased. That said, my cat can play nicely and so can the dogs. My gut tells me they will play together.

Call me crazy, but having observed all of their personalities for some time, that's what I think. I also have a few close friends who are animal lovers, very dedicated to their pets, knowledgable about animals, etc., who have successfully introduced cats and dogs to each other and they all lived happily ever after.

 

[Recidiva]

The dogs basically reacted like - huh, cat. Curious, essentially. These dogs basically know friends v. enemies, I guess, and then they have always known to be gentle with kids. I think it was clear to them that this wasn't a thing racing through their yard, but something that belonged in the house.

I sorta gotta sense of that distrust after the stone-pelting post. I understand your point of view at this point, but I was really surprised to read that. For all of my joking that cats can't be trained, they really can be for some things. Or even more according to others who have posted. My cat does understand no and he does listen. He will play roughly with you if you engage in that with him, but he knows to be gentle with people who are not giving him the signs that they're up for some thrashing around. He has never scratched or bit kidlet in any way other than a warning, and kidlet knows that if he pokes or bothers the cat, the cat will scratch. Anyway, all that is to say that my cat will not harm the dogs unless the dogs really went after him. So we want to get the dogs to recognize that the cat belongs here and is not something that should be chased. That said, my cat can play nicely and so can the dogs. My gut tells me they will play together.

Call me crazy, but having observed all of their personalities for some time, that's what I think. I also have a few close friends who are animal lovers, very dedicated to their pets, knowledgable about animals, etc., who have successfully introduced cats and dogs to each other and they all lived happily ever after.

When we introduced the nutbar Rottweiler to the house, they were fine. Three cats to deal with and another dog also.

The funniest thing was watching a little tiny newcomer kitten to the house take swipes at the Rottweiler from on top of the glass table and scoot back fast enough to avoid retaliation. It was much more playful and testing than it was homicidal. And he was a homicidal dog. It's just that while he was figuring out that this was going to be his territory, he got to know the other members of the "pack" so to speak. His biggest problem wasn't in accepting that there were weird members of his pack, it was wanting to kill anybody in his house or near his pack after that pack was established.

It might be a problem for a bit, but I found that if my husband established himself as alpha early on (not a problem...he speaks dog), and he made it clear that the other dogs weren't to eat certain house members, it was okay.

Might be harder with a cat or introducing a new animal into a cat's territory, as they're not really all that pack oriented and that mechanic doesn't work so well.

After the dog came to the house the cats took to peeing on everything in protest.

 

[Netzach]

I've seen dogs search through trash for food, and they were clearly hungry. Never seen one eat actual shit, though.

Smell shit? Absolutely. There's a lot of information there!

Netzach - what were the circumstances of the dogs eating from litter boxes? Did they seem poorly fed, as Graceanne mentions? I wonder what attracted them to it.

Quite the opposite. I do know that some do, some don't. Maybe it's the dog equivalent of chattering at birds.

My favorite dog/cat intro involved a husky/lab/somethin' mix of my friend's who was so afraid of a tiny kitten he would not look at it, but kind of sideways inch into the room. All worries about his husky genes were unfounded.

 

[intothewoods]

I have two kids. They're fine, thanks. It's 100 degrees out here a lot of the time and they're not forced outside out of boredom or being harassed out of the house by elder siblings like I was. They also have their own private spaces with lots of things to do, something I also lacked. I spent TONS of time outdoors as a kid, but it was often out of desperation and just needing to get away. Not what I really wanted to do.

They're not stunted or lacking for exercise or friendship. I did have to kick a lot of neighborhood kids out early on in my son's life because they weren't interested in being friends, they just wanted to play with his game systems.

So I am not sure the kids that are running around outside without supervision are all more healthy socially or physically. They seem awfully starved for entertainment to me.

I'm kinda proud they have a house they're comfortable in and they have lots to do there. I certainly didn't have that and I've gone out of my way to provide it.

Boredom and having no place of my own I could defend from my elder siblings was a huge factor of my childhood being unpleasant. Alleviating that for me in my kids is a priority.

We don't have a basement either, since it's Florida. But I can't even count how many controllers we have...

There is an opportunity for self-reliance and experience that is missing these days for kids because most parents are afraid to let their kids leave the house alone. There is also the related so-called "helicopter parenting" problem, but I think that's somewhat less pervasive.

Like JM, I have very fond memories of going for bike rides by myself, running around to all of the neighborhood houses, heck, just hanging out around the neighborhood. Going to buy 10 cent ice cream cones at Thrifty. To me, that sense of freedom is a quintessential part of being a kid.

I will add that I am not anti-video game, as long as it's done in moderation. I used to be vehemently against them, for a number of reasons, but I have since met a ton of people my age who all turned out perfectly well and live balanced lives and played video games as a kid. It's not all or nothing.

 

[JMohegan]

We've been warned about the kitty litter thing. Ick.

Oh, and JM - I also spent a lot of time outdoors as a kid. My main impression of cats based on the ones I encountered is that they like to sleep in the sun. We had one hunter-cat, and he brought us the occasional mouse. I would guess what's around makes a difference. There were some mice outside, but not all that many, and no bunnies. My cats would mostly do the whole stalking routine but not ever actually get anything.

Maybe the cats are all really mellow on the left coast.



The two against one thing might help. A lot depends on the personalities of the animals.

California cats - ha! That must be it.

You've seen a lot of cats asleep in the sun. Me too. (See my description of the cat that scratched my sister.) I get that they just want to be left alone, which is why I didn't suggest telling the dog to treat the cat like a Friend.

Re "two against one" - I've never owned a hound, so I can't give specific beagle advice. But in general, I'd say that a dog on the defensive in his own home is not going to be a calm and happy pet.

 

[Netzach]

I've seen dogs search through trash for food, and they were clearly hungry.

H is a beagle person. Not just a dog person, a beagle person which is its own psychosis.

His dogs were never hungry a day in their lives. His puppy has expensive thyroid meds. I wish my health care plan was as good as hers.

The dog he has now - with a hundred baby locks, you'll still find a pack of stale bagels stashed in your laundry.

One night she did get into the garbage and they came home to rotting chicken strewn all over the steps and under the bed. Clearly this was worth saving for later.

 

[intothewoods]

When we introduced the nutbar Rottweiler to the house, they were fine. Three cats to deal with and another dog also.

The funniest thing was watching a little tiny newcomer kitten to the house take swipes at the Rottweiler from on top of the glass table and scoot back fast enough to avoid retaliation. It was much more playful and testing than it was homicidal. And he was a homicidal dog. It's just that while he was figuring out that this was going to be his territory, he got to know the other members of the "pack" so to speak. His biggest problem wasn't in accepting that there were weird members of his pack, it was wanting to kill anybody in his house or near his pack after that pack was established.

It might be a problem for a bit, but I found that if my husband established himself as alpha early on (not a problem...he speaks dog), and he made it clear that the other dogs weren't to eat certain house members, it was okay.

Might be harder with a cat or introducing a new animal into a cat's territory, as they're not really all that pack oriented and that mechanic doesn't work so well.

After the dog came to the house the cats took to peeing on everything in protest.

Interesting. I think a similar thing goes on between Mister Man and his dogs, so that's helpful. This cat marks his territory by scratching shit up, not peeing. Oh, that reminds me of another shopping purchase I need to make.

 

[intothewoods]

California cats - ha! That must be it.

You've seen a lot of cats asleep in the sun. Me too. (See my description of the cat that scratched my sister.) I get that they just want to be left alone, which is why I didn't suggest telling the dog to treat the cat like a Friend.

Re "two against one" - I've never owned a hound, so I can't give specific beagle advice. But in general, I'd say that a dog on the defensive in his own home is not going to be a calm and happy pet.

But see, my cat does not want to be left alone, though we have had that type too. He likes to sleep in the sun but he also is a cuddler. Major. Cuddler.

See, I think about the cats and will they feel scared - hence the two against one comment. Not - go for it, cats - beat the shit out of that dog! I mean, is that what you are thinking of in terms of a dog being on the defensive? Obviously I would never encourage my cat to terrorize anyone, dogs or people.

ETA - what does "friend" mean to a dog? Do you think a cat will scratch a dog just for sniffing it? Or playing with it? Or sleeping next to it? I am confident my cat will not do that, as long as everyone is introduced slowly and gets the rules of interaction.

 

[WriterDom]

My neighbor has an outdoor cat who can go inside during the day if he wants. Her two dogs just love him to death.

 

[Netzach]

I've got a friend with a Terrier fetish who always has some kind of cat along with them, and they tend to have a "that's my cat" relationship to the cat.

The success of these interactions depends as much on the cat as the dog.

My less social catty cat had a very sweet, but very high energy pit introduced into the house. There were two cats at the time.

The other cat was a playful cuddler big cat dude who found a new buddy and he and the pit would play together.

She lived under the bed for about a year. Entirely. She'd slink out for litter and food when the coast was clear.

Since moving in with me and especially since the other cat was obtained she's much happier. I'm still the only person she really wants to be petted by and that for about a minute at a time.

 

[Recidiva]

There is an opportunity for self-reliance and experience that is missing these days for kids because most parents are afraid to let their kids leave the house alone. There is also the related so-called "helicopter parenting" problem, but I think that's somewhat less pervasive.

Like JM, I have very fond memories of going for bike rides by myself, running around to all of the neighborhood houses, heck, just hanging out around the neighborhood. Going to buy 10 cent ice cream cones at Thrifty. To me, that sense of freedom is a quintessential part of being a kid.

I will add that I am not anti-video game, as long as it's done in moderation. I used to be vehemently against them, for a number of reasons, but I have since met a ton of people my age who all turned out perfectly well and live balanced lives and played video games as a kid. It's not all or nothing.

I have respect for your viewpoint, I do. I just have less than happy memories about my time spent at home and how being outside wasn't better, just less harassed.

But I'm one of those Myers Briggs personalities that doesn't really get much of a payoff with social interaction and I need a lot of silence and downtime. Time spent outdoors was still spent avoiding people in general. I had friends, but I genuinely preferred just to sit in the forest alone or read in my room alone or whatever I was doing in general - alone. I don't get lonely or crave social interaction the way other people do. I don't think there's anything wrong with either way of functioning. But in general my way of functioning is less socially accepted so I try to make some room for it to be its own version of "normal." I just want my kids to have the option of silence and quiet if they need it. They're both raucously social though, so although they appreciate the option, they're usually much happier doing what made me nuts as a kid. I'm not scared to send my kids outside and they're not scared to go.

My husband and I are both the Myers Briggs "introverted" type which means we spent some of our best times in our youth, indoors or outdoors, alone. It also makes for a really nice marriage where we both get this and are well suited to the life we have. By comparison my sister is highly extroverted and married to a highly introverted person and living the way I do makes her insane. And she's just been given a job where she's booted out of the office and has to stay home alone to work and she hates it. I've been doing it for years and it's ideal for me.

I think it's the reverse of kids who want to be deeply physical and want to go be in the NFL or the Olympics, but they're not allowed unless they finish their chemistry homework. That may not necessarily be fair either, and I feel for them. I get that when you're really good at one thing or really interested in one thing in particular (for me, books, music, solitary arts) it's easy to be a target of those who idealize those activities that I don't enjoy.

I wouldn't tell a jock that they should embrace and enjoy and love every moment of intellectual stimulation that school provides. I prefer not to be told that I should have embraced and enjoyed and loved every moment of the joys of being with little kids outdoors. I kinda think there should be alternate school paths for kids that want to be inherently physical and don't really care much for books or sitting still. Not because books or sitting still aren't good things, but it makes highly physical people insane to do so.

I suppose that's what makes a well rounded person, to be comfortable in all those situations. I did my best to deal with all those situations and embrace them as I could, but some were inherently more rewarding to my brain structure. I can definitely fake being a well rounded person when required, just to avoid the "What, you don't adore every moment of this?" enthusiasm (and judgment) of those who do adore every moment of it.

I don't, however, make them adore every moment of what I love to do, and don't expect them to.

 

[Recidiva]

Interesting. I think a similar thing goes on between Mister Man and his dogs, so that's helpful. This cat marks his territory by scratching shit up, not peeing. Oh, that reminds me of another shopping purchase I need to make.

We did have to declaw cats, but that's okay as they're going to be indoors and we just wanted to keep the insane kitties alive. We left them with the back claws, but if I had to choose between adopting a needy cat and furniture...let's see...live or keep your front claws...

It was an eye opener to see someone speak fluent dog. When the rottweiler first made it to the house, he didn't want to see his previous owners go, and he kept trying to dig a hole in the front door to get out.

My husband would push him away from the door and stand there with his hands over his chest and say "My door."

I thought it was cruel and mean...right up until the dog accepted it right off and started following my husband around like a lovestruck puppy.

I don't speak dog. Dog is inherently backward to the way my brain works. But I gotta admit, every single dog adored him and did anything he said immediately.

Even though I pampered them and loved them and I'm the one that usually noticed them in distress, fed them and played with them and I DON'T ignore them, that just makes me their bitch.

Dogs. :rolleyethingy:

 

[JMohegan]

But see, my cat does not want to be left alone, though we have had that type too. He likes to sleep in the sun but he also is a cuddler. Major. Cuddler.

See, I think about the cats and will they feel scared - hence the two against one comment. Not - go for it, cats - beat the shit out of that dog! I mean, is that what you are thinking of in terms of a dog being on the defensive? Obviously I would never encourage my cat to terrorize anyone, dogs or people.

ETA - what does "friend" mean to a dog? Do you think a cat will scratch a dog just for sniffing it? Or playing with it? Or sleeping next to it? I am confident my cat will not do that, as long as everyone is introduced slowly and gets the rules of interaction.

To my dog, "Friend" is a signal that means the dog may interact playfully with that person or creature.

Yes, of course a cat will scratch a dog for sniffing or trying to play with it. I've seen that happen hundreds of times, to dogs that were just behaving in a happy, drooling, gee I wanna say hi, who are you, typical dog friendly way. That is THE primary dog/cat interaction that I've witnessed, over and over and over again.

Never - not one single time - have I seen a cat respond to a dog walking up with behavior that looks like: "Yay! Let's cuddle!"

I don't blame the cat - after all, the dog is bigger, and the cat may have multiple unpleasant experiences with barking, chasing dogs. The vicious terrier attack fiends that Netzach and Keroin described do exist, and the cat is probably smart not to take any chances.

I don't blame the dog - after all, he's just being friendly.

I blame the owners.

Of course, I'm describing what happens in the world at large. I'm sure it's different within a household.

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>

I'm a huge proponent of letting your kid be the person they are. Mine is very social and very physical, more physical than I ever was. On the other hand he happily plays by himself, draws, and plays pretend in all sorts of different ways. Anyway, he's extremely social, but used to really need a little space to warm up around a lot of people. I always gave it to him. In retrospect, I think this was probably not a shy v. social thing as a baby but probably a reaction to loud noises and people. At any rate, the challenge usually arises when parents have a very different personality than their kids.

There's a difference between introvert/extrovert personality and persons who are physical versus those who are more intellectual. Of course you can be an introvert and spend lots of time outside. I am a big proponent of physical activity, but you can do that without being forced to join little league. I come from a long line of nerds who did sports. I was never best friends with those girls, but we got along well enough for me to play with them on a team. Yes, I'm an extrovert and also highly competitive.

I have to add also that I'm an extrovert marrying an introvert and, while it is something we address, it's not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination. He needs alone time to decompress, but it's not like I need to talk to him constantly. I need to go out from time to time. He sometimes comes with and sometimes doesn't.

 

[Netzach]

To my dog, "Friend" is a signal that means the dog may interact playfully with that person or creature.

Yes, of course a cat will scratch a dog for sniffing or trying to play with it. I've seen that happen hundreds of times, to dogs that were just behaving in a happy, drooling, gee I wanna say hi, who are you, typical dog friendly way. That is THE primary dog/cat interaction that I've witnessed, over and over and over again.

Never - not one single time - have I seen a cat respond to a dog walking up with behavior that looks like: "Yay! Let's cuddle!"

I don't blame the cat - after all, the dog is bigger, and the cat may have multiple unpleasant experiences with barking, chasing dogs. The vicious terrier attack fiends that Netzach and Keroin described do exist, and the cat is probably smart not to take any chances.

I don't blame the dog - after all, he's just being friendly.

I blame the owners.

Of course, I'm describing what happens in the world at large. I'm sure it's different within a household.

How many times do new dogs totally new to one another react with "hey, let's cuddle?"

I realize there are some dogs who love everyone the second they meet them at the dog park, but come on.

More often there's some antagonism and checking out and it takes more than .5 seconds to figure out the relationship. A dog being introduced to another dog out of the blue acts with some trepidation and some defensiveness. An isolated swipe isn't the same as ears back, and now I'm velcroed onto you trying to kill you. It's not the same as running away in terror. It's "hey, not so fast, large weird thing."

I think there's probably about 25 flickr groups of dogs and their cats cuddling together. There's probably one that's exclusive to greyhounds and cats sleeping.

 

[intothewoods]

To my dog, "Friend" is a signal that means the dog may interact playfully with that person or creature.

Yes, of course a cat will scratch a dog for sniffing or trying to play with it. I've seen that happen hundreds of times, to dogs that were just behaving in a happy, drooling, gee I wanna say hi, who are you, typical dog friendly way. That is THE primary dog/cat interaction that I've witnessed, over and over and over again.

Never - not one single time - have I seen a cat respond to a dog walking up with behavior that looks like: "Yay! Let's cuddle!"

I don't blame the cat - after all, the dog is bigger, and the cat may have multiple unpleasant experiences with barking, chasing dogs. The vicious terrier attack fiends that Netzach and Keroin described do exist, and the cat is probably smart not to take any chances.

I don't blame the dog - after all, he's just being friendly.

I blame the owners.

Of course, I'm describing what happens in the world at large. I'm sure it's different within a household.

I think the dogs will be able to interact playfully with my cat. I'm counting on it! I think what will happen the first time is that the dogs will sniff, and the cat will give a warning scratch with the claws not out. I will say, no, no scratching, and then say back to the dogs so they know not to overwhelm the cat with affection. My cat thinks yay, cuddle! about everything.

This has all been helpful. My instinct about this is really based on all of the personalities involved. My cat is pretty social, though he does do a lot of sleeping alone. These dogs are pretty easy-going and friendly. I haven't seen my cat interact with dogs millions of times or anything, but based on what I have seen, he is fine and behaves when dogs aren't chasing him at high speed. I've also seen that dynamic stop immediately when I stepped outside and firmly said NO to the dog (a neighbor's who came into my yard). My feeling at the time was that if my cat went into the dog's territory, he got whatever was coming to him. However, the dog needed to respect that my yard was my cat's territory. Once my cat knew I had laid down the law, he sprawled out next to me, completely relaxed. I don't know. My cat's kind of a little bitch at times, but he knows the rules and he would rather play or snuggle than torture, hurt, kill, etc.

 

[00Syd]

Going back a few pages... I love aquariums. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7de...video-goes-viral.html&feature=player_embedded

Fucking amazing

 

[Recidiva]

I'm a huge proponent of letting your kid be the person they are. Mine is very social and very physical, more physical than I ever was. On the other hand he happily plays by himself, draws, and plays pretend in all sorts of different ways. Anyway, he's extremely social, but used to really need a little space to warm up around a lot of people. I always gave it to him. In retrospect, I think this was probably not a shy v. social thing as a baby but probably a reaction to loud noises and people. At any rate, the challenge usually arises when parents have a very different personality than their kids.

There's a difference between introvert/extrovert personality and persons who are physical versus those who are more intellectual. Of course you can be an introvert and spend lots of time outside. I am a big proponent of physical activity, but you can do that without being forced to join little league. I come from a long line of nerds who did sports. I was never best friends with those girls, but we got along well enough for me to play with them on a team. Yes, I'm an extrovert and also highly competitive.

I have to add also that I'm an extrovert marrying an introvert and, while it is something we address, it's not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination. He needs alone time to decompress, but it's not like I need to talk to him constantly. I need to go out from time to time. He sometimes comes with and sometimes doesn't.

Not at all surmountable and conducive to compassion and understanding and all that good stuff

 

[graceanne]

Netzach - what were the circumstances of the dogs eating from litter boxes? Did they seem poorly fed, as Graceanne mentions? I wonder what attracted them to it.

I didn't mean poorly fed, but more like given cheap food or having a nutritional deficiency.

Animals are like humans, they sometimes need a little help. Garlic pills give the dog vitamin B, and it helps with fleas. Too many fleas can cause anemia. Humans with severe anemia eat weird things, too.

Most kids don't do that today, and I find it eerie. Streets, whole neighborhoods, with no children in sight. Where are they? At day care, camp, or some other organized activity? Down in the basement clutching a controller? Hard to say.

That's cause parents are terrified that 'something will happen'. If you let your kids roam the neighborhood you will get child services called on you by some overly nervous parent. I guarantee it.

After the dog came to the house the cats took to peeing on everything in protest.

My cat, the one I had since I was little, hated K. She'd shit on his clean clothes if they were left out for more than a few hours. It's why I had to give her back to my mom. (Who is awesome with cats.) I think she was pissed cause I was sleeping with him instead of her. But she was a torty - they're known for being territorial.