How Do We Feel About...? - A PBP Project

[anthrodisiac]

Ever have that indecision indigestion where you come up with something Brilliant™, but as the haze of glory at marveling at your own genius wears off, doubt begins to seep in like a whisper from the Dread Goddess of Darkness Herself? "Is this brilliant... or the total gibberish?"

Well, we at Plot Bunny Pens get it. There's a thin line between genius, and total flop, and often times, we're too close to actually be able to tell which side we've fallen on. Is it Nobel Prize-worthy, or Darwin Awards-worthy writing? Your thing could be as simple as an invented word, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph, or even just an idea, and you just need other people who we have definitely not supplied with plenty of rotten produce (which we verified could not be used as food, because PBP isn't wasteful!) to give you some honest feedback.

"But, PBP," you ask, "surely I could just start a new thread and have it narrowly tailored to that, and, you know, we just talk about that and nothing else? And, really, this is starting to feel like you're trying to push into new ventures because you're hemorrhaging money and are desperate to keep the HyperDimensional BunBun Farm™ in working order because the kreptoids have been howling at the gate more and more, spurred by some incohate evil forming on the fringes of our reality, so this is kinda just another racket to plunder the pockets of venture capitalists with increasingly zany ideas, and this, frankly, is really kinda out there."

That, my friend, fell on the floppiest-imaginable side of the line. Rotten produce for you!

No, PBP decrees that a space should be offered for tiny things that aren't really worth devoting a whole thread over, but an author still wants to get a few pairs of eyes on it to see how people feel. It behooves us to, from time to time, gauge which way the fickle winds of readership doth blow when sense and sanity have taken their leave, and we are left with naught but benthic dread about our Very Genius Idea, for surely, the public will adore it. But lo, what if we have taken leave of our senses, and it is but an illusory genius, and our own eyes doth perceive fervent brilliance from a cold, limp rag of incompetence?!

...or, uh, something...

So, if you have any snippets you want some honest feedback on, why don't you enter it into our newest gameshow...

How Do We Feel About...?™

The gameshow where you, yes YOU, toss in a snippet of something to the gnashing jaws of vicious daemons thoughtful critics of AH who will give you their honest rotten produce feedback. Rotten produce Feedback can be as simple as "Genius!!!!" or "Uhh... no..." or, you know, anything in between, because we at PBP are nothing if not inclusive (and housing a not-at-all-worryingly-large amount of plot bunnies). If one of the vicious daemons thoughtful critics wants to add a bit more than a simple Yea or Nay to their opinion, why, all the better!

All we ask from the vicious daemons thoughtful critics is that we avoid being cruel and mean-spirited. Light teasing is okay if you know the person is all right with it, but PBP asks that everyone be respectful, both the vicious daemons thoughtful critics, and the foolhardy victim brave contestant who is receiving such rotten produce feedback. It is also important to remember that opening yourself up to rotten produce feedback is both a brave and difficult thing to do, and also requires being willing to hear things that maybe you don't want to, and the baseline assumption should be that a person is offering you their rotten fruit feedback with the spirit of trying to help.*

*Which we ask the vicious daemons thoughtful critics to not abuse and hide behind, "Oh, it was just a joke, lighten up, hur hur hur." Cruelty is not a good look, and nobody thinks putting someone else down gives the appearance of someone being anything other than the most asinine of asshats — and not even the cool asshats, the hideous ones from the 1819 Hatters convention where they were giving out shots of mercury right before the Asshat Design Competition. Yeah, those asshats.

So, if you're feeling brave, and want some second, third, fourth, etc. opinions, why don't you step on up and play... How Do We Feel About...?™!

PBP is not responsible for any rotten produce that falls to the ground and results in slapstick-level injuries as the result of slipping, falling, or hilarity.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Ah, our first contestant!

...why do I have to keep going first... shoulda read that damn contract when I dropped off that stupid plot bunny about the gay anthro chipmunks, Alvin and Friends with Benefits...

Hi, uh... I just... oh, yep, hi! Uh, so, I have a quick little turn of phrase I was curious about, and would love to get people's, um, you know, opinions or something?

So, How Do We Feel about...

Kinkish apprehension filled Raya’s chest as the dolphin chuckled low. “Thought you’d never ask.”

I'm kinda shooting for a thrilling apprehension about the kink of having her gills licked (prior sentence), like an excitement because a kink is about to be fulfilled. "Kinky apprehension" makes it seem like the apprehension itself is the kink, and "kink apprehension" feels weird because kink is a noun and just sounds wrong, and besides, I kinda like playing and fucking around with language, because what is is but a tool for us to use as we see fit or some such nonsense? It's a fluid thing, and always has been, so why not push things a little and be inventive if it gets a point across?

There, you PBP assholes happy? Am I getting a check for this, or... No? Fine...

 

[StillStunned]

How do we feel about... a story told in the abstract?

This is the opening of a WIP that I haven't officially abandoned yet:

Imagine a Lady. An elegant Lady, from a respectable background, raised in the strictest propriety, with the finest manners and a strong sense of decorum.

Where this Lady lives, or even when she lives, is unimportant. It might be Regency Bath, or the court of Charlemagne, or modern-day Seoul, or Granada at the height of the Caliphate, or Ancient Persia at its peak, or… or anywhere, any time. This is a Lady of all lands, of all ages, of all peoples.

Who is she? How does she view herself? A proud queen, a humble servant, a hard-nosed professional, a practical housewife, a warrior woman, an adventurer, pioneer or explorer? A wife, mother, lover, loner?

She is none of these, perhaps. And yet, this night she is all these women, and all these women are her.

Now imagine this Lady is at a celebration. A ball, or a reception, or a gathering of the rich, the powerful, the beautiful: movers and shakers, dignitaries, nobles, emissaries and gentlefolk.

Imagine a long summer’s evening with the heat of the day drawing down like a blanket. Candles, lamps and the closeness of many bodies add their own warmth. An early breeze exhausts itself long before the celebrants think of retiring. As it fades into nothing the perfume of the night rises, borne up by the song of a bird – a nightingale, perhaps – to fill the air that all these beautiful people breathe.

And as the night draws on, the tone of the gathering become first joyous, then elated, and then– frantic is perhaps too strong a word, but no word suits better. It infects the eyes glancing this way and that, the gestures and touches, the words that spill so fast from tongues that they stumble.

Everybody wants something, and they search for that person who can give it to them. A striking woman demands attention for her complaints. An older man needs an intoxicant to stifle the dreams he knows are waiting for him in bed. Young men and women and beautiful people who are both throw looks at each other until they find their match and melt away in pairs, threes or fours.

None of this is what the Lady wants. Wine, smoke or pills, admirers or brow-beaten listeners, soft words or sweet caresses? This Lady wants none.

The WIP goes on in this style for another 1200 words or so, even when the spanking and sex begin. I've done sex scenes in various styles before - fairy tales and 19th century Gothic - and they've done fairly well, and I'm confident I could do it here too.

The question is more about the overall concept. How will readers react to such an abstract tale? It feels more E&V than anything else, so perhaps it would work there?

 

[StillStunned]

Kinkish apprehension

It works for me, provided that it suits the tone of the story. I think it does what you want it to and evokes the character's state of mind: a mixture of curiosity and reluctance to find out. What will it be like? Will it live up to expectations? What if I don't enjoy it? What if I *do* enjoy it - what does that say about me?

 

[TheLobster]

I'm kinda shooting for a thrilling apprehension about the kink of having her gills licked (prior sentence), like an excitement because a kink is about to be fulfilled.

Spell it out. The adjective you invented is unclear, and being more explicit will make the whole thing hotter.

 

[MK_Whimsy]

Kinkish apprehension

Somehow, "kinkish" makes me think of "peckish." Like, a little hungry for kink.

I'm undecided about this one and would workshop some other approaches first. Maybe along the lines of what @TheLobster suggested, a more thorough description might get the intended meaning across. I'm wondering though, do you want "apprehension" or "anticipation?"

 

[anthrodisiac]

Spell it out. The adjective you invented is unclear, and being more explicit will make the whole thing hotter.

Yeah, it's always a thing for me when I twist a word and in my head it makes perfect sense, and then other people look at me with a high-pitched dog whine like "WTF did you smoke?" (Nothing!... it was a pill...)

Clarity is important in things like this, and I'm not so wedded to the idea as I was when I wrote it as to risk plinkage on it, so this is a good point, I'll give it a think.

Somehow, "kinkish" makes me think of "peckish." Like, a little hungry for kink.

I'm undecided about this one and would workshop some other approaches first. Maybe along the lines of what @TheLobster suggested, a more thorough description might get the intended meaning across. I'm wondering though, do you want "apprehension" or "anticipation?"

Well, hungry for having her gills licked would definitely fit the vibe.

Hmm, good point about anticipation as better than apprehension, since there was some gill play earlier, so this is like hungry for more. Gill play in addition to sex, as opposed to gill play on its own. Damn, you should win a prize of something... *rustles through feathers* ...ah! Anthy Gold Star for you!

 

[MK_Whimsy]

Damn, you should win a prize of something... *rustles through feathers*

Anticipation...

...ah! Anthy Gold Star for you!

Yay! I'll put it on the fridge.

Oh, speaking of food-related things, PBP makes me think of peanut butter. Just saying.

 

[Britva415]

How do we feel about... a story told in the abstract?

This is the opening of a WIP that I haven't officially abandoned yet:


The WIP goes on in this style for another 1200 words or so, even when the spanking and sex begin. I've done sex scenes in various styles before - fairy tales and 19th century Gothic - and they've done fairly well, and I'm confident I could do it here too.

The question is more about the overall concept. How will readers react to such an abstract tale? It feels more E&V than anything else, so perhaps it would work there?

Your example is close to the kind of "second person imperative" concept I've talked about several times.

Separating that concept from what you asked about, the concept of "it's abstract!", I wouldn't know how to react to it in the abstract. In the concrete, I'd react based on whether it had been done for a good, story-serving reason. Could a reader or an author articulate why that story needed that treatment? What would have broken if it had just been told concretely instead of abstractly? Or, narratively instead of imperatively?

As a reader, I also would really want to get from "imagine this (static) scene" to "imagine this stuff happening" sooner rather than later. You instructed to imagine the energy of the gathering changing, and people pairing off, but can you continue talking about what happens abstractly? Like, the actual plot?

I know your work on this is in progress, so, I'm not presuming you can't, these are just the reactions I come up with, as prompted.

 

[Britva415]

How do we feel about... a story told in the abstract?

My other thought about this is:

It strikes me that this engages a reader in a particular kind of way. Even without the imperative format, presenting a story abstractly is asking them to "get involved" and do a little bit of their own storytelling. Or, at least, put them in the storyteller "seat" even if they aren't making up any facts or wordsmithing anything.

So... Why? Why do that? What is it about such a story which becomes compelling when crafted this way and not some other, more conventional way? Again, ideally both a (sufficiently analytical) reader and an author would be able to answer that question.

 

[anthrodisiac]

How do we feel about... a story told in the abstract?

This is the opening of a WIP that I haven't officially abandoned yet:


The WIP goes on in this style for another 1200 words or so, even when the spanking and sex begin. I've done sex scenes in various styles before - fairy tales and 19th century Gothic - and they've done fairly well, and I'm confident I could do it here too.

The question is more about the overall concept. How will readers react to such an abstract tale? It feels more E&V than anything else, so perhaps it would work there?

I feel like there's a limit to this sort of thing where it's kinda that fun, charming, whimsical "come come, sit on my knee while I tell you a story" (like what Britva414 is saying). It's a style that works well for openings, but it begins to lose its charm the longer it's used in my opinion. Even in this section, I kinda started to lose some of the intrigue, which is, to my eye, kinda the main draw of this style. It's a tool that is very visible to the reader, and while those can be really good, it's my general opinion that such obvious tools are best used sparingly. Of course, there are exceptions, and a lot of it depends on the execution, plot, and characters, but I feel like in most instances reading a longer abstracted opening like this would have me going "okay, okay... but can we get to the actual scene already?"

Also consider that, if this is a short story, the proportion of narrative told in this style compared to the rest is extremely high. Usually when I see these things, it's in a longer story, at least a novella, but usually a novel, so that the setup is long gone from my mind as I immerse myself in the story. Here, I feel like you risk the impression being that you spent a lot of time on the setup for not much payoff. Potentially, of course, not knowing much about the rest of the story.

Now, you do bring up an interesting case where this could actually be an interesting style for a voyeuristic story. "See how she strips" instead of "You see her strip" or "I saw her strip," but even in that case, I am, like Britva, wondering why the story is being told like this, if there's some underlying reason for selecting the style beyond simply "I wanted to try it." I'm all for experimentation, but the experimentation has to be done in a way that is compelling in and of itself (and I'm not sure this is), written so well that it succeeds despite the experimentation (low chance, probably would've just been a better story overall if you'd done it more normally), or the experimentation and story compliment each other (ideal). In other words, the story succeeds because of the experimentation, and not despite it.

Your average reader, even outside Lit, tends to not enjoy experimental stories as much as regular ones. The people who do are a smaller subset, but they really appreciate it when it's done well. That audience is even more skewed toward regular stories here, so the vast majority of the readers will probably feel more like they're having to crawl through the brambles of the style in order to get the berry that is the story, and would much prefer to pluck a berry from a less thorny bush, because they don't have to do extra work parsing the story, they can just single-handedly enjoy the story.

 

[StillStunned]

Thanks for your thoughts!

So... Why? Why do that? What is it about such a story which becomes compelling when crafted this way and not some other, more conventional way? Again, ideally both a (sufficiently analytical) reader and an author would be able to answer that question.

but even in that case, I am, like Britva, wondering why the story is being told like this, if there's some underlying reason for selecting the style beyond simply "I wanted to try it." I'm all for experimentation, but the experimentation has to be done in a way that is compelling in and of itself (and I'm not sure this is), written so well that it succeeds despite the experimentation (low chance, probably would've just been a better story overall if you'd done it more normally), or the experimentation and story compliment each other (ideal). In other words, the story succeeds because of the experimentation, and not despite it.

The "why" is mostly "because this is Lit, and we have free rein to experiment because we know there are readers." And, of course, "I want to give it a try." It's more "here's a format, and this is the story written to fit it," not "here's a story and this is the best format for telling it."

The abstract style mostly ends after the snippet I posted, but the tone remains the same. The same distance from the actors. The idea is for this "posh lady" to rebel against her constraints and have hardcore sex outside while the party is going on.

But I agree - I think - that it's very much style over substance, and I'm not sure the substance can support the style. If I ever finish it, I doubt it will be one of my best scorers, or even a story that I'll be particularly proud of. That's probably why it's languished so long. And also why I asked for thoughts on it. You've basically confirmed my concerns: unless I get a surge of inspiration, it's probably left unfinished.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Thanks for your thoughts!




The "why" is mostly "because this is Lit, and we have free rein to experiment because we know there are readers." And, of course, "I want to give it a try." It's more "here's a format, and this is the story written to fit it," not "here's a story and this is the best format for telling it."

The abstract style mostly ends after the snippet I posted, but the tone remains the same. The same distance from the actors. The idea is for this "posh lady" to rebel against her constraints and have hardcore sex outside while the party is going on.

But I agree - I think - that it's very much style over substance, and I'm not sure the substance can support the style. If I ever finish it, I doubt it will be one of my best scorers, or even a story that I'll be particularly proud of. That's probably why it's languished so long. And also why I asked for thoughts on it. You've basically confirmed my concerns: unless I get a surge of inspiration, it's probably left unfinished.

Nothing wrong with wanting to try things out. In fact...

I'm all for experimentation, but the experimentation has to be done in a way that is compelling in and of itself (and I'm not sure this is), written so well that it succeeds despite the experimentation (low chance, probably would've just been a better story overall if you'd done it more normally), or the experimentation and story compliment each other (ideal). In other words, the story succeeds because of the experimentation, and not despite it.

I should clarify that when I was speaking here, I was talking from the perspective of a reader, not as a writer. Sometimes we experiment, and we know it'll have a very narrow audience, possibly of 1 or less, but experimentation is what keeps us on our toes, and you never know when you'll stumble upon something that works really fucking well. Almost all of my more experimental/unorthadox pieces are total duds, couldn't even bring myself to finish them. But I have one that turned into a 150k-word novel that is both one of the best things I've ever written, and one of my favorite pieces to have worked on. Even from the duds, I found found aspects of them from time to time that I could add to my toolkit to use sparingly, or at least give me a different perspective on writing, make me a little more willing to be flexible and understand the rules, so I could break them on purpose for effect. Experimentation and poking around the edges can give us a better perspective on the craft, especially if we work to understand why the experiment failed. We learn from "failures" as much as successes, and understanding why something does not work can be just as helpful as understanding why something does work.

So, maybe this story doesn't really work well, and the subject matter isn't enough to drive the experiment and compliment each other, but at least now you know (or, who the hell knows, maybe you give it another quick go and suddenly it all clicks and you deliver something that you love, damn what anybody else thinks, or maybe, just maybe, other people will appreciate it too?!) and you now have a little bit of experience with something like this, so maybe you'll find a home for something similar one day

 

[StillStunned]

Actually, most of my experimental works have done quite well here. They don't all have a red H, but only one is rated below 4 stars.

 

[TheLobster]

like what Britva414 is saying

You short-charged him by one.

 

[sirhugs]

Dang you Anthy... another thread I feel compelled to support!!!

good thing I have no snippets, either good or bad.

 

[anthrodisiac]

You short-charged him by one.

Sorry, I apologize to Britva416.

There, now it's evened out.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Okay, here's my snippet I'm wondering about, mostly whether or not it's too 'gimmickey'. (I've already gotten one opinion on it but curious what others think) It's a T/I story, and this is the opening:

"Come on, Jason! It'll be fun! Pleeeeease?" my little sister begged effervescently, her loose blonde waves swaying as she tilted her head in mock-pleading.

Alexis hadn't let up on me since I had arrived home, an hour earlier. Well, that's not entirely true. I'd made a comment about how she could at least let me put my bags in my room first, and she did give me thirty seconds to get up the stairs. The moment the drawstring of my duffel scraped across the threshold though, she'd been back at it, chattering the entire time it had taken me to unpack. She was nothing if not maliciously compliant.

Now I was back downstairs in the living room; she'd followed me, pestering me as I got the cables untangled, sorted out, and plugged in. I'd heard all about what it would involve and how long she'd been wanting it and how perfect it was that I'd be home for the whole summer now that she'd turned eighteen and what she'd need to do to prepare for entry.

"I've never done it with someone else before, and I can't think of anyone I'd rather have as my first partner than my <em>talented</em> and <em>capable</em> and <em>handsome</em> brother," she said in a flattering tone.

"What about your friends? Can you do it with one of them?" I asked as I worked the controller to slay yet another goblin encampment.

"They're all busy. Well, all but Christi, but she's still not eighteen, and isn't really into this stuff anyway."

"I still don't understand why it's so important to have a partner anyway," I said, my attention still mostly on the TV. "Can't you just do it by yourself like you usually do?"

"This year's theme is 'Loyalty', and I can't think of a way to portray it with just one person."

"Isn't that optional?"

"Well, yeah, but I've made sure to include the con's theme in every costume I've entered since I was thirteen. I don't want to skip it on my first time eligible for eighteen-plus. Besides, having a partner will open up the 'best group costume' category too. Please please please please please?" she bobbed up and down between me and the screen.

Even if the whole "is she referring to sex? But wait, the matter-of-fact style is too unnatural to feel real" thing is not too gimmickey, I don't know if the effect is impaired or enhanced by the fact that the story is entitled "Consanguineous Cosplay", so people probably already know what she is and isn't talking about. I don't know, I, at least, try to read stories as if I don't have any external knowledge about them and see where the reveals are internally, so even if I know something isn't what it seems, I appreciate seeing HOW what it seems is presented.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Okay, here's my snippet I'm wondering about, mostly whether or not it's too 'gimmickey'. (I've already gotten one opinion on it but curious what others think) It's a T/I story, and this is the opening:


Even if the whole "is she referring to sex? But wait, the matter-of-fact style is too unnatural to feel real" thing is not too gimmickey, I don't know if the effect is impaired or enhanced by the fact that the story is entitled "Consanguineous Cosplay", so people probably already know what she is and isn't talking about. I don't know, I, at least, try to read stories as if I don't have any external knowledge about them and see where the reveals are internally, so even if I know something isn't what it seems, I appreciate seeing HOW what it seems is presented.

To me, I'm very, very, very certain it's a misdirect but insinuating sex for a punchline that, haha, jk, it isn't sex, but *waggle waggle* it could've been, eh, eh?

It's gimmicky, but the question isn't that, it's if it's too gimmicky, and that will frankly depend on the tone of the story. In some stories, this would be massive overkill, in others, probably underplayed, and in some, it's just right. So, I think you need to reframe your question to account for the whole scope of the tone and voice of the story, and evaluate gimmickiness on that, rather than some objective "too gimmicky" measure that just really doesn't exist.

That is How I Feel About...!

 

[TheExperimentalist]

To me, I'm very, very, very certain it's a misdirect but insinuating sex for a punchline that, haha, jk, it isn't sex, but *waggle waggle* it could've been, eh, eh?

It's gimmicky, but the question isn't that, it's if it's too gimmicky, and that will frankly depend on the tone of the story. In some stories, this would be massive overkill, in others, probably underplayed, and in some, it's just right. So, I think you need to reframe your question to account for the whole scope of the tone and voice of the story, and evaluate gimmickiness on that, rather than some objective "too gimmicky" measure that just really doesn't exist.

That is How I Feel About...!

Great. I'll send you the other 25,000 words of the WIP (so far) so you can tell me. Thanks for volunteering!

The story is meant to be realistic, but mostly feel-good. While there are a few more somber, serious, or uncomfortable moments, the mood is generally relatively cheerful. Contains a fair amount of humor, but realistic humor, at the many points in the story where the mood calls for the characters to joke with each other. I tried to give this entry point into their lives a similar feeling, that they could realistically be saying these things and not even realizing how they might sound out of context, nor are they worrying about it, because there's no out-of-context observer to the conversation anyway. (None who don't require a fourth wall break anyway, and this isn't that kind of story.)

Guess I'll just have to finish the damn thing and then see how it works on a beta read.

 

[StillStunned]

Okay, here's my snippet I'm wondering about, mostly whether or not it's too 'gimmickey'. (I've already gotten one opinion on it but curious what others think) It's a T/I story, and this is the opening:

To me it reads as a fairly typical erotic story. Intriguing enough to make me curious at first, then obvious enough to make me feel smug about seeing where it's going.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

To me it reads as a fairly typical erotic story. Intriguing enough to make me curious at first, then obvious enough to make me feel smug about seeing where it's going.

I can't tell if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[deathlynx]

How do we feel about... a story told in the abstract?

Been there, done that. I personally like it but it gets pretty universally panned by people who read it. The story is more of a philosophical play on cosmogony so I felt it worked best as vague/abstract.
You know, I was looking at it's stats and just realized that the 750 word minimum must be new(er), since this one comes in under 700!

 

[sirhugs]

Been there, done that. I personally like it but it gets pretty universally panned by people who read it. The story is more of a philosophical play on cosmogony so I felt it worked best as vague/abstract.
You know, I was looking at it's stats and just realized that the 750 word minimum must be new(er), since this one comes in under 700!

I have been here since 2002, and the 750 word rule has been around since at least then. Not sure how you snuck past.

 

[StillStunned]

I can't tell if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Definitely a good thing.