How much do you take away from readers comments or suggestions?

[lovecraft68]

Yeah, I simplified the example. CNC can look anyway a dynamic decides between themselves and does not have to include any physical resistance. ‘Forced’ does not have to be physical. The label its self is only for the people in the dynamic to choose.

Blackmail is a kink. A bottom requests they are threatened with blackmail and the top agrees. The limit they decide is they only play with blackmail on the second Tuesday of the month. During the second Tuesday of each month the top tells the bottom if they don’t make them orgasm three times they will tell the bottom’s colleagues what a pervert they are. They tell the bottom they have photos of them dressed as a sissy crawling on the floor and if the bottom dares to orgasm anytime that day the photo will be published on social media. Whether the top would follow through on the treat will have previously been agreed and consented to and if the bottom wants the actual humiliation but the top doesn’t the top can refuse to actually follow through with the threat. The bottom might decided this is not fulfilling their needs and end the dynamic to find a top which matches their kinks better. If this couple want to call it a CNC dynamic they should and have every right to as it is what they have consented to between themselves and want to call it. CNC is the current term for ‘forced with prior consent and the ability of everyone involved to end the scene or dynamic’.

The majority of people involved in kink communities understand when the word forced is used to describe a rl dynamic or scene it is accompanied by an unspoken acknowledgment that consent has been agreed. This is where language is a problem, as a new person exploring their kinks hears about ‘forced’ activities and assumes or just does not know consent is present even if it was given many years beforehand and the consent has not been withdrawn. They are then approached by a predator who tells them to read about BDSM and proceeds to manipulate them into activities they didn’t consent to while referring to all the BDSM literature they had the new person read.

Having spoken to women who had their safe word ignored and were raped, or were manipulated into sexual acts, because the predator is threatening to tell the woman’s family about her despite never communicating this prior to the dynamic starting, this scenario is sadly exceptionally common. These women then reach out for support as they can’t end the interaction due to the threats of the predator. They need support understanding what the predator is doing is abuse not kink - stories like 50 Shades might have opened up the discussion of BDSM to the wider community, but it also gave predators the perfect roadmap to convince/manipulate a new person into believing abuse is kink and consent is obsolete.

Your dynamic is a great example of consensual authority exchange. You agreed to the dynamic, you know you can end the dynamic when you want and I’ll assume your dominant can also end the dynamic if they choose. Once consent was established how the dynamic looks is only up to the people in it. It’s the nuances that get lost in translation, especially when others look in on a dynamic from the outside.

Its a fine line because 50 shades as much as I think its a pile of shit and does a lot of damage to a lifestyle the author obviously knew nothing about....it is a work of fiction and people do need to realize that you shouldn't do things because you read it in a book, if the book did inspire interest in BDSM then a little more research would help

I don't hold movies/books/Tv etc accountable for people's actions, I don't subscribe to witch hunts like Songs can make people commit suicide etc...

But what is dangerous is people-like a couple in this thread- who state things like consent is not needed, because that's a real person in a real conversation spreading disinformation and in one person's sense doing it to be a total tool because they can't admit they don't know a damn thing about the topic so try to bully people into listening to them.

The BDSM cat here has gone down hill big time the last few years and its as bad if not worse in the paid market. Some of it is people having no clue what they're writing, some are predators hoping their stories will get people to reach out to them(we had one of those here for a while) and others know they're writing non con but don't want the stigma of being in the category or in the paid market some platforms won't take it so they call it BDSM

There's a site called fiction4all..their "BDSM" section makes the non consent section here look like romance.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah, I simplified the example. CNC can look anyway a dynamic decides between themselves and does not have to include any physical resistance. ‘Forced’ does not have to be physical. The label its self is only for the people in the dynamic to choose.

Blackmail is a kink. A bottom requests they are threatened with blackmail and the top agrees. The limit they decide is they only play with blackmail on the second Tuesday of the month. During the second Tuesday of each month the top tells the bottom if they don’t make them orgasm three times they will tell the bottom’s colleagues what a pervert they are. They tell the bottom they have photos of them dressed as a sissy crawling on the floor and if the bottom dares to orgasm anytime that day the photo will be published on social media. Whether the top would follow through on the treat will have previously been agreed and consented to and if the bottom wants the actual humiliation but the top doesn’t the top can refuse to actually follow through with the threat. The bottom might decided this is not fulfilling their needs and end the dynamic to find a top which matches their kinks better. If this couple want to call it a CNC dynamic they should and have every right to as it is what they have consented to between themselves and want to call it. CNC is the current term for ‘forced with prior consent and the ability of everyone involved to end the scene or dynamic’.

The majority of people involved in kink communities understand when the word forced is used to describe a rl dynamic or scene it is accompanied by an unspoken acknowledgment that consent has been agreed. This is where language is a problem, as a new person exploring their kinks hears about ‘forced’ activities and assumes or just does not know consent is present even if it was given many years beforehand and the consent has not been withdrawn. They are then approached by a predator who tells them to read about BDSM and proceeds to manipulate them into activities they didn’t consent to while referring to all the BDSM literature they had the new person read.

Having spoken to women who had their safe word ignored and were raped, or were manipulated into sexual acts, because the predator is threatening to tell the woman’s family about her despite never communicating this prior to the dynamic starting, this scenario is sadly exceptionally common. These women then reach out for support as they can’t end the interaction due to the threats of the predator. They need support understanding what the predator is doing is abuse not kink - stories like 50 Shades might have opened up the discussion of BDSM to the wider community, but it also gave predators the perfect roadmap to convince/manipulate a new person into believing abuse is kink and consent is obsolete.

Your dynamic is a great example of consensual authority exchange. You agreed to the dynamic, you know you can end the dynamic when you want and I’ll assume your dominant can also end the dynamic if they choose. Once consent was established how the dynamic looks is only up to the people in it. It’s the nuances that get lost in translation, especially when others look in on a dynamic from the outside.

basically what you're saying is CNC is role playing....its a game within a game that has existing rules, but the rules are not brought up in the new game, and in some cases 'ignored' within reason to enhance the game.

 

[SimonDoom]

But what is dangerous is people-like a couple in this thread- who state things like consent is not needed, because that's a real person in a real conversation spreading disinformation and in one person's sense doing it to be a total tool because they can't admit they don't know a damn thing about the topic so try to bully people into listening to them.

.

But nobody that I can see has said this. Nobody has advocated for the position that in the real world consent is not needed. What some have said is that in a fantasy space -- which, make no doubt about it, is what Literotica is -- the parameters can be whatever you want them to be, subject only to Laurel's restrictions. There's no obvious reason why one's own version of fantasy BDSM -- in a story -- is "dangerous" just because it doesn't adopt the norms of the BDSM community.

It's not dangerous at all, IMO.

What's more dangerous, I think, is the failure of so many at this Site to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. I for one have no difficulty separating them. I suspect most people here have no difficulty in doing so for themselves. But for some reason some people seem to think a high level of babysitting is needed to prevent some unknown and unquantified population of foolish readers out there from taking seriously nonconforming BDSM principles in a Literotica story and hurting somebody in real life. Does this actually happen? I strongly doubt it. But people sure are worried about it. It seems to me people are looking for something to be worried about.

 

[KeithD]

But nobody that I can see has said this. Nobody has advocated for the position that in the real world consent is not needed.

Yep/Nope, no one here is saying consent isn't needed in the real world practice of club BDSM as far as I can tell. Some here seem unable to separate fiction from their claimed real life gaming. What can be/should be published here on Literotica is determined by the site editor, not some claimed practitioners' club.

And rules don't have to be followed--even safety rules--for a story to include whatever elements pass muster with the site editor and still be a good story. In fact, doing things wrong can make for a very good story. It's establishing a dilemma--the first necessary element of a short story.

 

[46n2]

Honestly, while I kinda sympathize with this, I get where the BDSM community is coming from. Having witnessed real-life relationships where there were fundamental misconceptions about what a "dom" and a "sub" is, and seen them deteriorate into real-life abuse, I don't think it's much of a sacrifice to restrict non-con stories to their own category.

There's a conflict about norms going on, basically. There was a time --

Speaking to the bravery of this poster - to actually defend the unpopular view.

I'm not part of this shit. Fuck my wife, throw me baby girl in a hole. Like, whatever, okay. It IS becoming a bit extreme. To the point of stupid. To the point where it might be a concern. Right? Like, can we look at this? It's now at that point.

As rebellious as I am? We need to look at this. So what are you reccomending, mate... I like this guy Cyrano... that's twice now. Okay mate, what then?

 

[46n2]

"Vague criticism"... holy hell, those were the days.

I am absolutely certain I kept a few very important people together. Their are two pairs of ducks who now arrive on my porch regularly. If I don't feed those ducks?

Well, you can thank me for general world order is all I'm saying.

Alright then. Go onnnnnn....

 

[46n2]

It's not dangerous at all, IMO.

What's more dangerous, I think, is the failure of so many at this Site to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. I for one have no difficulty separating them. I suspect most people here have no difficulty in doing so for themselves. But for some reason some people seem to think a high level of babysitting... yada yada.

It's "dangerous.". Okay? It is.

All things might be dangerous.

Maybe you wrote, Dipshits Take the Howse, HollAA!!

It's funny. We all had a laugh. But then the oops occurred. Is that YOUR intent? Nope. Maybe not. But then it happens. Do you care about that?

Saying you don't give a shit would not be a beneficial answer. And would that possibly bother you also or no?

 

[46n2]

But nobody that I can see has said this. Nobody has advocated for the position that in the real world consent is not needed. What some have said is that in a fantasy space -- which, make no doubt about it, is what Literotica is --
It's not dangerous at all, IMO.

What's more dangerous, I think, is the failure of so many at this Site to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. I for one have no difficulty separating them.

SOME people... are fucking stupid beyond a fix. And enough of them, just got told they could reframe the Capitol. And did.

Do we not then have a greater DUMB on our hands? One worth worrying about? Even fucking stories matter, bro.

It does not matter what YOU think. It matters what's actually happening. Which is dumb on top of dumb multiplied by dumb.

Objective reason went out the window long ago. We're dealing with fucking DUMB people!!

We can fight about ass owning issues another time, don't you think?

 

[MsNatalie99]

"Vague criticism"... holy hell, those were the days.

I am absolutely certain I kept a few very important people together. Their are two pairs of ducks who now arrive on my porch regularly. If I don't feed those ducks?

Well, you can thank me for general world order is all I'm saying.

Alright then. Go onnnnnn....

You are just precious. Such big words and still home with mommy. Ooochi coooochi coo. One day when you are a big girl, you might say something.

 

[CyranoJ]

Okay mate, what then?

Fair question, really. I don't pretend to have all the answers, all I can say at this point is that IMO in Lit terms, it does make sense for authors who want to do NC/R stuff that involves BDSM to use the story category that explicitly allows noncon+.

In the bigger picture, what I expect to happen is more sites devoted explicitly to noncon as a separate kink (even if it leans on some similar tropes) from BDSM. But that's just pure speculation. Would that even be a good thing? It depends on the communities that come out of it, I guess.

EDIT: I know you're kind of driving at a bigger question about how we put these kinks into a world where people take QAnon seriously. That's something I think about a lot.

Do I have a really good answer for that? No. Basically I try to clearly mark what the kinks or fetishes in a story are, that representation is never endorsement, and to make sure that I never, ever endorse things I consider okay only as fictional kink outside the bounds of fiction and to try to steer communities I'm part of in that direction.

That's just a starting point. Most noncon communities that are serious about indulging the kink as safely as possible are extremely clear about separating fantasy from reality and never endorsing real-life rape, for example, and ban people who cross those lines with a quickness. (TBH Literotica isn't really there yet, I don't think.) But what the best steps look like from there, I'm not sure.

[+ I get what SimonDoom is saying about telling fantasy from reality, and that's important too. But I don't feel the need to post noncon stories in a place where they're growing more controversial just to prove a point. Doesn't really cost me anything much to leave sorting out the norms of the BDSM communities and readers to those who are really invested in that lifestyle.]

 

[SissyBrandi19]

BDSM is not an act broken down by giving examples of what each letter stands for(google is your friend, I see.)

BDSM is a lifestyle and has three rules, two fluid, one solid.

Fluid is Safe and Sane....every person has a different realm of what those mean, which is where boundaries are set between the two parties.

Consent is the solid rule, and good old Keith is always saying that's not true. But of you don't have consent, you have non consent for fictional purposes, and the crime of rape in real life.

The people who, because they can't understand something, try to force their ignorance upon others then try to insult them for not agreeing with them are the exact thing they're calling out.

Saying no one can force their rules on someone, but making sure to inform them that if you don't agree with their rules that's different, because they know.

You don't know Jack or shit about BDSM that's glaringly obvious in your posts and your weak attempts at it, and that's fine, until you try to impose your ignorance on others who may want to know what its really about.

People in the community blame 50 shades for a lot of the misinformation out there, but they're wrong, its existed from long before those books came out, you're proof of it.

Sir, this is an Arby's drive-thru...