I don't know what to do...

[MyEros333]

Request Withdrawn

I withdraw my request... The advice is only making matters more tense. The reason for that is that my original request was NOT the complete story and I wasn't authorized by her to discuss our situation at all, nevermind going so far as to divulge all of the personal details that would be needed for accurate advice to be given.

I was being confused & emotional when I asked for help and that never gets me anywhere. So please stop. She & I just need to work it out on our own and I'm sorry that I wasted everyone's time & effort and I'm sorry that I ever opened my mouth in the first place. (Sigh)

It ends here.

Rich

 

[SlimReaper]

this won't be a lot of use...but

Look one half of a problem is not recognising it's there, or seeing why these things happen. You know what the primary cause of friction at least, so now you just have to work at eliminating those things in you that you don't deem to be be your strong point's, not by ingnoring them, but by telling your self 'I can be a better person' and what you shouln't try to do is change your friend, if they are unable to apprieciate what your trying to do for you both, with your efforts, well then that's how it is, don't feel bad or angry, especially ar her, and remeber, forgivness, is a virtue that is in short supply in this day and age, so don't leave it behind, when you become hot in the head, and cold in the heart.

btw, I'm not into advertising, but if you want to try and help improve your life, for the better, then try finding a small book, by the Dali Lama, called 'How to practice, the way to a meaningful life' it might open up some idea's to you, that you had never thought of. and help you understand your self, and your friend more

Good luck

Slim


If we only thought of other peoples happiness, we'd never have to worry.

The roots of all things good and bad, are the same thing, Happiness, the only thing that changes is who's happiness

 

[English Lady]

Hello Rich! I can tell you feel terrible about this and I hope the good people here will be able to help you.

It is a difficault situation as you are just being yourself and she is misunderstanding you. It would be nigh on impossible for you to stop being the kind of exhuberent person you are and really I think what needs to be worked upon is the communication in this relationship.



Your girlfriend needs to understand how you are and to try and take a little step back when she starts to feel angry about a comment you've made. Maybe this woll come naturally as your relationship progresses and you get to know each other better. I hope you have told what you have posted here directly to your girlfriend so she knows how bad she makes you feel and how frustrated you are about it. How can she do anything if she isd unaware of how you feel otherwise?


I too find it easy to write, my husband and I argue by email...simply because I can better formulate my thoughts into typed words than into spoken ones..and also because when i get angry i just cry..and you can't argue too well when you're sobbing...anyway thats beside the point(see I'm a waffler!)


You should not try and play the game.....if she is trying to manipulate you that isn't right and you need to asses what to do if she is manipulating you. relationships are alot about comprimise...both of you need to work on a better way of resolving upsets.


She might have some trust issues....maybe she doesn't think that your unconscious bablbing is really unconscious and that she thinks you really mean to shut her up when you talk over her or whatever. It will be hard for her to accept that it is just part of her personality if she has some esteem problems or whatever..

anyway..i hope some of my waffle makes sense...and i am sure someone will give you some good advice even if I haven't!*L*

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by MyEros333
This is about my relationship...

...Rich's post deleted out of respect since he deleted the original...

Well first off I hope she knows you're posting about your relationship since she'll obviously see it.

Just a few comments....

I know you two are in a LDR and you're just trying to stay connected but perhaps there is too much togetherness. Maybe you need to consider quality over quantity...might help your lack of attention.

I read somewhere that relationships don't fall apart because people argue/disagree but because of the WAY people argue. The old adage is true...you can disagree with the act/behaviour but you shouldn't attack the person personally. You can disagree but still show respect for the other person.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I'm gonna give my standard "drop the chick" advice here...she seems guitly of the childish idea that everything that you do that she doesn't like is an attack on her. Maybe you should look for someone more mature?

 

[ethereal~minx]

I must comment on this. I'm a fire sign & he's a cancer. We've come to this point many many times. I wish he'd ask for help in dealing with it. damn. good for you for wanting to work it out.

how bout rather than reacting to her hurt feelings and anger, reassure her of your care for her & apologize & maybe tell her you really want to hear everything she wants to say & try to find a way for you both to interact in the conversation so it's not so one-sided ...hmmm. I'll be back to this one. : )

 

[judge not]

Any pointers on where to start unravelling this mess before it starts poisoning the relationship?

Rich

Yep.

When you enter into a relationship with someone and you know all those little quirks and unique things that make them who they are, you have to be willing to accept those things. Did she know from the beginning that you had this problem?

If she did, then it is now her problem to figure out how to grow up and deal with the way you are.

No, you aren't entirely innocent. But she has to be a little more understanding. If you are trying and if she knew from the beginning you had a problem with focusing for long periods of time, then she has no right to complain. It's just you being you.

 

[DuckLover]

I have two initial responses to your situation--

1) I have to agree with WickedWoman that part of the problem is probably the 24/7 nature of your contact. I can tell you from experience that 24/7 contact (whether IRL or online) is not healthy or sustainable, no matter HOW good your relationship is. I've been there, done that; it's not fun.

As you've told us, you know that part of the problem is your responsibility. You've acknowledged a short attention span, a tendency to not pay attention to her, and difficulty confronting her with your concerns. Explain to her that you know about those first two, apologize for being rude, and tell her that to help prevent it from happening again, you want to arrange specific times to talk. If you know that you'll be talking to her for 15 minutes, you'll be better able to stay focused, responsive, and polite. You two can arrange as many "chunks" of time as you want/need; agree to talk the first 15 minutes of each hour, for example.

2) The other major issue I see is the difficulty the two of you have with conflict resolution in your relationship. Here's the short version of how to improve the situation: Be very, VERY specific.

If you call someone a "jerk" (or an "evil, manipulative piece of shit"), you are guaranteed to make the situation worse. Here's the reason-- they don't know what you're talking about. You've just called them a name (remember elementary school?), which they know is bad. However, they don't know what that name means (other than it's bad). Look at the above two examples; can you write down a definition of each? It's essentially impossible. So now the person is upset that you called them a bad name, BUT they have no idea WHY you insulted them.

The only way out of this quagmire is through identifying very specific details. If you are the one raising the issue, you must tell the other person the specific, observable behaviors (or exact, quoted words) which upset you. If you are the one being criticized, you must ask the critic to identify the specific behaviors which upset them. Obviously, a defensive "What did I do?" isn't going to help. Start by acknowledging their feeling, explain that you want to understand the cause of the feeling so that you can stop upsetting them, and then ask for clarification of your offensive behavior.

Example:

HER: Evil pieces of shit manipulate people by saying things that you just said!

YOU: Whoa. I obviously said something that really pissed you off, and that was not my intention. Which specific comment was it that upset you so much?

Once a person has specific, observable behaviors identified, they can begin to understand why the critic is upset, and thus respond appropriately. In this example, perhaps she misheard your comment, or she misinterpreted your meaning. It's also very possible that you said something that was honestly insulting. Regardless, once you know what upset her, you can respond by apologizing and/or clarifying your statement.

If you have any questions about my suggestion, please feel free to PM me.

 

[woody54]

This is about my relationship...

Tonight, I'm totally lost. I'm not an entirely innocent party...She's very much "strike while the iron is hot" confrontational the moment a slight is perceived (a Fire sign) and I'm a Water sign Cancer to the core where anything confrontational rocks my world (in a bad way) and distresses me. So things spiral out of control

Hey Rich, I feel for you Buddy. I too have been put in my place and I am non confrontational.

Women , cant live with them, cant live without them.

I see L. has been quite public about the black funk she has been in over Xmas and this is not going to help your situation any.
Building relationships is hard work and it is made tougher by doing it by remote control as you do.
My advice is get on a plane, sit together, talk it out. Break that final boundary between you, it could make all the difference and stem the frustration that is created in LDRs.

You guys have a lot going for you, it seems silly to waste it on petty arguments.

The advice to always work to ensure the other person is happy is sound advice... as long as it is a 2 way street.

Good luck.

 

[tendril]

Well first off......

I'm not entirely convinced going public with your problems is ideal.

However, as you have posted your concerns then I will add my 2 cents worth.

I agree with Woody, you need to meet, as then and only then will you both be aware of the little quirks and habits that make us each a unique being. In real life she will be much more aware of your 'persona', the one that has a short attention span and is impulsive! It's then she'll realise it's a personality trait and NOT in anyway you being disrespectful towards her.

And maybe........just maybe, this thread will be all you need, once your friend has read it and realised your concerns and fears for your relationship.

Good luck

 

[Lorelei_11]

This is about my relationship...

Tonight, I'm totally lost. I'm not an entirely innocent party...I realize that my attention can wander and I can be impulsive...I'm talking about attention deficit here, not cheating. I lack focus, not morals. (Grin)

But she & I talk with webcam & microphones from dawn til dusk and I leave it all running while we sleep. Try not to laugh... But I have a tendency to not pay attention at times (saturation) or to blurt in the middle of her making a point (impulsive exhuberence).

She perceives these things as being done on purpose somehow and they lead to arguements which escalate. When I feel wounded I can say some insensitive things or bring up things I've kept silent about, or even fire back with "justaminit, you're hardly innocent, you've done things to me, too".

She's very much "strike while the iron is hot" confrontational the moment a slight is perceived (a Fire sign) and I'm a Water sign Cancer to the core where anything confrontational rocks my world (in a bad way) and distresses me. So things spiral out of control because I feel like my world is getting flipped upside down when her voice gets a harsh tone and she accuses me of purposefully doing things or saying the wrong things. I naturally put my foot in my mouth (a lot)...I'm not good at all with social situations. I can write, but conversing is one of my weaknesses.

My shortened attention span angers & insults her, and while she feels hard-done-by she doesn't realize nor hear that her behaviour & accusations insult & hurt me. I'm insulted when she starts with "Evil pieces of shit manipulate people by saying things that you just said"...which also leaves me clueless as to what the hell I just said that got taken wrong because I suck at regular conversation let alone having wits to try to figure out how to "win" an arguement with manipulation. It's like accusing an autistic kid of being machiavellian... (Sigh)

So I have no clue what to do or how to even start finding a solution. Yuck...

Any pointers on where to start unravelling this mess before it starts poisoning the relationship?

Rich

Wow! I'm really learning first hand what I have already known... It is very important to hear both sides of a story. That said, I realize that you tried to be fair, and at the same time tell your story. Unfortunately... without the whole picture, the comments here have no relevance to our particular situation. I absolutely don't blame the ppl here that posted, they said what they thought based on the info they had. One point to note here, my actions and reactions are most often based in logic... yours in emotiion... this is one of our problems that I have been working with and aware of for a long time though.

We have discussed the attention span thing in great detail. I understand the way you are and the situation of spending large amounts of time adds to it. We decided that we would do other things while hanging out like watch movies, and socialize on this board. So, we do alot of things on the comp, including cooking and watching shows and doing crosswords, taking quiz's.. plus more. Still, you often don't hear me. I'm quite easy going, so... I let it go... even laugh it off alot of the time. Saying "Rich.... Rich... are you still there? You didn't hear me did you? *shaking head* giggles and I repeat myself. When it goes on for hours at a time, I say o.k this has been going on for hours and its starting to get to me.... I say this nicely. I'AM ALWAYS STRAIGHT FORWARD I let you know exactly what I'm thinking and feeling. Then, if after this... it just continues. I... get... mad. The angry tone is apparent in my voice. This is extremely upsetting to you and you go into fight mode due to it. No abusive words by me... just an angry tone... like... o.k this is pissing me off, this was important, I just told you I need you to listen. I have even asked you if you were in game and I would wait until your finished.

It especially pisses me off if it is extremely important and I think I have finally gotten your attention. When I'm upset over something bad going on in my life, something intolerable and you don't hear me even when I think I have your attention. I feel like you just don't give a shit about me.. o.k and I have told you this before. I actually yell it in mid speech... eg) I can't fucking believe that your getting into that game, when I'm telling you something has went wrong and my rent cheque bounced and I think my fucked up daughter has something to do with it.

When you don't hear me while talking about things this important.... YESSSSSSSSS I.... AM... INSULTED!!!!!!!

There IS an ANGRY TONE in my voice... and it is RAISED!

I realize your sensitive to angry tones. Your way of handling your upset is not tolerable. That is why I suggested email, or typing.

An angry tone is one thing... but the way your upset can get the ball going into your arguing style is another. You fight dirty.. every dirty way to win... no holds barred.. you feel you have been asaulted with my anger and yours then goes to rage. You didn't see the difference between rage... and anger. You said they are the same to you... I have explained the difference between the 2 extensively, Now maybe you see it differently.. yet I'm not totally sure at this point.

You think that both can have no good come from them. As I have said they are not the same.. night and day.

Anger can be positive... it is a natural feeling when a person feels like they are being wronged or treated unfairly. It is the thing that has started Revolutions. It is necessary to the well being of a person. It is there as a warning, a protection. It tells a person something is very wrong with the way they are being treated. It then causes action to be taken, to either right the wrong or protect oneself. It motivates... and this is positive.

As I have told you. If I stuff my anger down and don't express it, then I have no warning bells going off in my head, and don't take action to take care of myself. I will not do this. I will not effectively slowly destroy myself. I had to get in touch with my anger in therapy. I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO BE ANGRY! I learned that it is a positive emotion and its necessary for a person to befunctional for a person to take care of themselves. This is why my abusive family wouldn't allow it. They knew it was my power, to motivate me to change and take care of myself.

Rage.. is another thing. It is destructive, there is no control. Anything and everything happens... like the way you argue.
Abusive men are taught to notice the signs of anger turning to rage so that they can prevent it. Rage is not called for, not acceptable.

I'm NOT SAYING OR SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE ABUSIVE. Just saying that it is something that is not tolerable. The solution does not lay in me stopping the angry tone... which I will not do for anyone and I have explained why.

Now, I know myself and I know that I can be harsh when it comes to it looking like your playing a game on me. I have understanding of psychology and it has been my hobby, almost an obssession for 10yrs. I do not tell you that you are acting like an evil peice of shit, because that is what evil peices of shit do. I tell you in great detail, the game... and that you have done each part of it. I know also because of my knowledge that you are a good person, so I ask youi to explain what is going on because I dont' fully understand the responses of a mostly emotionally based person. I'm sometimes harsh in my not accepting one of your explanations as proof and I explain why it is not proof that you are not playing the game.

Most of the time your explanations make sense coming from the way you are and were seeing and doing it. I know this and tell you so, and say... o.k I understand that was not your intention. Other times you couldn't totally prove your innocence and I have just let that part go because of your other daily good actions, knowing and basing my decisions on them. I let it go....

You... are simply insulted that I could even think you were doing such a thing and compound the problem by arguing with me in a vicious rage... saying things that can't be taken back... and this will eventually destroy any relatiionship. I have asked you to take a time out. You haven't done so yet and another vicious fight was weathered. Go to email and say it so you don't go into a rage. You know the solutions and have been ambivelant about doing them putting your heart into it. You have believed that rage and anger are the same so we are both doing the same thing so why change? I hope today you see it differently. I think you do from our talks.

You have accused me of many things that I wasn't doing and I simply explained or proved that I wasn't. I'm more logical so I realize this is normal for me and your emotions make this extremely upsetting. The rage has to stop. I think we can do this in email as at one point you did say you were committed to it now. I don't remember if that was before you wrote this post or after though... so I'm a bit unsure.

I hope this helps to give a full story and clear up some of the misconceptions here.

 

[Bobmi357]

LOL! Well I was going to respond to this at first, then the other side stepped in. And in the midst of all this I'm still dumbfounded by the reference to astrology. Does anyone really believe that an object billions of miles away care let alone affect any part of our lives today? Astrology has failed time and time again to stand up to the light of scientific scrutiny and yet people still believe in it.

Amazing, we stand on the brink of achieving fusion, we can instantly contact nearly anyone in the world, we've come to not only understand DNA, but have mapped the human genome, and people still cling to age old myths and an unproven belief in magic.

Oh well, I suppose you could always rattle some bones and see what advice they have to offer.

 

[English Lady]

well firstly.now the communication seems to be happening I hope the both of you can sort this out.


Anger can be positive but its a difficault emotion to handle..i have great problems with it..getting angry upsets me..other people getting angry upsets me too..... anyway I think the idea mentioned about email and typing might help as it would take out that voice/face to face confrontation thing that happens.


And bobmi...why mention such a silly off topic thing? Maybe it might not be their star sign that effects them or maybe it is..the bottom line they are different personalities and we're supposed to be putting forth helpful suggestions about how they deal with that.

 

[Bobmi357]

And bobmi...why mention such a silly off topic thing? Maybe it might not be their star sign that effects them or maybe it is..the bottom line they are different personalities and we're supposed to be putting forth helpful suggestions about how they deal with that.

Your absolutely correct. However one's tendency to place blame in a bogus astrological sign rather than accepting people for what they are does nothing to help the situation, and probably contributes to its worsening.

People are who they are, not because of some mythical symbol perceived among a collection of unrelated stars, they are who they are because of their values and rearing. The problem EL is a simple one. If you start attributing your problems to perceived myths, you basically relinquish control over them. You can sit back and say, its not really my problem, its because of my astrological sign, and there isn't anything you can do to change that.

The simple fact is, this has everything to do with who both Lorelei and MyEros are and nothing to do with any signs/portents or prophecies. And if they want to fix the problem, they need to work through it, not leave it up to the zodiac.

 

[English Lady]

Fair enough Bobmi

 

[voracious]

Lorelei - First off, ever heard the old saying 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'?

Trust me, making a hobby of studing psychology DOES NOT make you in anyway an expert. Using what you have learnt in the study of your hobby and attempting to apply it to a real life situation is risky to say the least.

I think you and MyEros need to attend some form of counselling TOGETHER.

 

[Lorelei_11]

Lorelei - First off, ever heard the old saying 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'?

Trust me, making a hobby of studing psychology DOES NOT make you in anyway an expert. Using what you have learnt in the study of your hobby and attempting to apply it to a real life situation is risky to say the least.

I think you and MyEros need to attend some form of counselling TOGETHER.

I said I learned to express my anger IN THERAPY. They are professionals. In the case of my relationship, I have asked him to use typing or email if the angry tone in my voice upsets him. I also said that I would do the same.

 

[woody54]

I said I learned to express my anger IN THERAPY. They are professionals. In the case of my relationship, I have asked him to use typing or email if the angry tone in my voice upsets him. I also said that I would do the same.

Lorelei
In your original reply, it is notable that you used the word "I" about 72 times and "you" about 40 times and a smattering of capitalisation to stress your point. This infers your position or views are more important and right than anything he could add to the debate. And then you get angry when he cant "prove his innocence" to your satisfaction

Now the above is a bunch of bullshit loosely based on your theory that romantic relationships can be directed by logic..... well they cannot. It is an emotional union with a whole raft of factors that come into play where many of those do not seem logical but it is the whole package that you get, warts and all, like it or not.

You two make good music together, dont end up lonely because you set unrealistic expectations in a mate. You can grow together to overcome these problems.

..... and maybe half the 'tune out' problem is part of overexposure
online. Change your schedule and make a personal meeting a serious priority.

 

[MyEros333]

Lorelei
In your original reply, it is notable that you used the word "I" about 72 times and "you" about 40 times and a smattering of capitalisation to stress your point. This infers your position or views are more important and right than anything he could add to the debate. And then you get angry when he cant "prove his innocence" to your satisfaction

Ummmm...actually, I feel that way about most people. I lack conviction (in general), so a person with more conviction and ire/fire than what I posses can overwhelm me. It doesn't make them more right, but I do feel "less right", less important, or just lesser. So it's nothing that she's doing.

But in each instance I have been able eventually to prove myself innocent, even though usually not totally innocent but at least less guilty. But it takes time because I get flustered and can only truly be focussed in writing. On an average day, I stumble on my words out loud, which in an arguement is fatal because it can make a bad situation even worse.

I say the wrong things, I can having lousy timing, I can be emotional, I can always be wrong, I can lack perception or perceive too much.

Please do not try to correct/contradict/antagonize her...I was mistaken in airing relationship stresses publicly and have withdrawn my request for advice. We're working through this on our own, and very successfully.

Rich

 

[woody54]

Ummmm...actually, I feel that way about most people. I lack conviction (in general), so a person with more conviction and ire/fire than what I posses can overwhelm me. It doesn't make them more right, but I do feel "less right", less important, or just lesser. So it's nothing that she's doing.

But in each instance I have been able eventually to prove myself innocent, even though usually not totally innocent but at least less guilty. But it takes time because I get flustered and can only truly be focussed in writing. On an average day, I stumble on my words out loud, which in an arguement is fatal because it can make a bad situation even worse.

I say the wrong things, I can having lousy timing, I can be emotional, I can always be wrong, I can lack perception or perceive too much.

Please do not try to correct/contradict/antagonize her...I was mistaken in airing relationship stresses publicly and have withdrawn my request for advice. We're working through this on our own, and very successfully.

Rich

Wish you luck you guys.