I miss the fitness threads and the fitness Doms!

[ultramarineblue]

I haven't looked at this thread in a while. I know all the reasons and have enjoyed the good benefits of exercise but I still can't motivate myself.

 

[midwestyankee]

I just want to see you bite your tongue.



I watched a fascinating bit recently about why running causes so many injuries. Basically, thanks to running shoes, we're doing it wrong. Barefoot running necessitates a vastly different stride - which does not injure - and that is what humans were built for.

ETA: Here's an article about it. This guy studied a tribe of long distance runners in Mexico. Really cool stuff here.

Oh, and just a bit for MWY:

"What’s the solution? Slower, easier training over a long period would most likely help; so would brief walk breaks, which mimic the behavior of the persistence hunter. And running on a variety of surfaces and in simpler shoes with less cushioning can restore natural running form.

Mr. McDougall says that while researching his book, he corrected his form and stopped using thickly cushioned shoes. He has run without injury for three years. "

I just finished reading McDougall's book Born to Run this week. Yesterday I dropped by my favorite running gear store and got a look at some Vibram Five-Fingers "shoes" too, which are absolutely fascinating. Many of the running shoe companies are now coming out with "minimal" running shoes that have a nearly flat bottom - much like the old Converse All Stars but with a bit more support and ergonomic shape. Have recently begun walking and jogging a bit in my stocking feet on the indoor track at our gym. All the research behind this move toward something approximating barefoot running points to the bulked up heel-strike based running shoe being the source of many of the injuries associated with running in recent decades.

I ran high school and college track in the 1960s and early 70s. I read every book about track history and great runners I could get my hands on. I had never heard of plantar fascitis until I got a case in 1998. I had never heard of a runner having knee problems unless the knee had been wrenched in a twisting motion by a foot lodged in mud or something similar. Never from just running. And we ran in glorified ballet slippers with nearly no padding at all.

My goal now is to strengthen my feet and calves so that I can begin running soon in minimal shoes. Based on the experiences of many others, I think I can look forward to being able to do a bunch more running without so much fear of injury. And...

Forming in my head: a plan to run the Chicago Marathon in 2013 with my wife. She is already running well enough that she may even be able to qualify for Boston if she can maintain her current level of fitness for a full marathon. For her, the qualifying pace is a full minute slower than her current pace for longish runs. I'm not close to that level, as the qualifying times for men are much faster but finishing Chicago would be a very satisfying thing.

 

[midwestyankee]

I haven't looked at this thread in a while. I know all the reasons and have enjoyed the good benefits of exercise but I still can't motivate myself.

Maybe you need someone jogging behind you with a flogger or cane in hand.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Maybe you need someone jogging behind you with a flogger or cane in hand.

Which would more inspire me to slow down so I can get the fun of the flogger and cane.

After thinking a moment, that would probably work since I would be receiving positive reinforcement the entire way.

 

[subish2009]

I just finished reading McDougall's book Born to Run this week. Yesterday I dropped by my favorite running gear store and got a look at some Vibram Five-Fingers "shoes" too, which are absolutely fascinating. Many of the running shoe companies are now coming out with "minimal" running shoes that have a nearly flat bottom - much like the old Converse All Stars but with a bit more support and ergonomic shape. Have recently begun walking and jogging a bit in my stocking feet on the indoor track at our gym. All the research behind this move toward something approximating barefoot running points to the bulked up heel-strike based running shoe being the source of many of the injuries associated with running in recent decades.

I ran high school and college track in the 1960s and early 70s. I read every book about track history and great runners I could get my hands on. I had never heard of plantar fascitis until I got a case in 1998. I had never heard of a runner having knee problems unless the knee had been wrenched in a twisting motion by a foot lodged in mud or something similar. Never from just running. And we ran in glorified ballet slippers with nearly no padding at all.

My goal now is to strengthen my feet and calves so that I can begin running soon in minimal shoes. Based on the experiences of many others, I think I can look forward to being able to do a bunch more running without so much fear of injury. And...

Forming in my head: a plan to run the Chicago Marathon in 2013 with my wife. She is already running well enough that she may even be able to qualify for Boston if she can maintain her current level of fitness for a full marathon. For her, the qualifying pace is a full minute slower than her current pace for longish runs. I'm not close to that level, as the qualifying times for men are much faster but finishing Chicago would be a very satisfying thing.

Real quick question: the advantages of the "barefoot running" principle is that it's easier on the knees from a torque point-of-view, right? To do with angles and strike position and lateral stress on the knee/hip joints, right? It wouldn't benefit anyone with impact-related injuries, would it? Like, osteoarthritis and chondromalacia and general lack of cartilage between the leg bones...I can't imagine any way that kind of running could cut down on impact stress (seems like it would greatly increase the impact on the cartilage and that if you're prone to that breaking down, it would just do so faster), but I don't know much about it (i.e., the specific advantages of barefoot running).

 

[FurryFury]

Which would more inspire me to slow down so I can get the fun of the flogger and cane.

After thinking a moment, that would probably work since I would be receiving positive reinforcement the entire way.

I don't run. I can sprint well but running gives me a stitch every time. Running up hills, walking down them, that sort of thing works well for me. That being said, having ANYONE with me would help me a great deal with a flogger and cane would be mega fun!

FF

 

[midwestyankee]

Real quick question: the advantages of the "barefoot running" principle is that it's easier on the knees from a torque point-of-view, right? To do with angles and strike position and lateral stress on the knee/hip joints, right? It wouldn't benefit anyone with impact-related injuries, would it? Like, osteoarthritis and chondromalacia and general lack of cartilage between the leg bones...I can't imagine any way that kind of running could cut down on impact stress (seems like it would greatly increase the impact on the cartilage and that if you're prone to that breaking down, it would just do so faster), but I don't know much about it (i.e., the specific advantages of barefoot running).

I suggest that you wander around the various videos and articles on running form and preventing injuries at newtonrunning.com (example here: http://www.newtonrunning.com/run-be...njury-prevention/177-prevent-running-injuries). What happens with the barefoot or "natural running" form is that you eliminate the heel strike. Two bad things happen with heel-strike running form. First, the impact of the body weight landing on the heel has nowhere to go but back up into the leg and knee. This is one of the causes of cartilage wear from running. Second, your heel is small and rounded and so it's a lousy surface on which to land. Depending on how well balanced your stride is, your foot might roll any which way before settling down onto the flatter and wider mid-foot region and ball of the foot. This leads to injury due to pronation or supination. If, instead, you land on your mid-foot, you will be landing on a relatively wider place so your foot won't roll nearly as much. And, when you land on your mid- or fore-foot region, the foot will be able to act as a spring to absorb the downward energy of your body weight and propel it forward. The foot and knee can then work together as springs to absorb the downward thrust of your body weight and convert it to forward motion with little or no impact.

What I'm learned as I dig more deeply into this is that the big cushy heels of "modern" running shoes make it imperative to run by landing on your heels and this is an impact-based running form rather than a springy running form like you'd use quite naturally if you were running barefoot on comfy grass or a sandy beach.

Experiment: try running in place. Most likely you'll find yourself landing somewhere forward of your heel and your foot and legs will feel kind of springy. Now try to run in place while you land on your heels first. You'll feel the impact of those heel-strikes all the way up your leg. Now ask yourself which way you'd rather feel as you run while moving forward.

Now, to get back to your quick question: I think that if you can adopt a springier running style such as folks use in the barefoot or natural (or chi or POSE or evolution styles) you will find that your other injuries might not impede your running the way they do now. I doubt if they'll be cured by this change, but I suspect they might not be aggravated and made worse either.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I don't run. I can sprint well but running gives me a stitch every time. Running up hills, walking down them, that sort of thing works well for me. That being said, having ANYONE with me would help me a great deal with a flogger and cane would be mega fun!

FF

I was working towards my version of running - jogging when I got sick earlier this past fall. There's no way I could run, jog, or sprint right now. I'm definitely wanting to try the flogger cane exercise combo!!

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I haven't looked at this thread in a while. I know all the reasons and have enjoyed the good benefits of exercise but I still can't motivate myself.

This is going to sound kind of lame, but with me, the action has to come before the motivation for something like this. If I wait to be motivated to go to the gym, I won't.

But then I feel so good afterward, and am not climbing the fucking walls or snapping at people, that it perpetuates the motivation.

 

[Homburg]

Now, to get back to your quick question: I think that if you can adopt a springier running style such as folks use in the barefoot or natural (or chi or POSE or evolution styles) you will find that your other injuries might not impede your running the way they do now. I doubt if they'll be cured by this change, but I suspect they might not be aggravated and made worse either.

I suck at running, always have. Slow, awful gait, no wind. It is an awful way for me to sweat. Out of a moment of sheer perversity, I picked up the chi running book. It was VERY interesting. I eventually gave it a try, and, sure enough, I was able to run without KILLING my knees mostly. It was also the first time in my life that I felt like I was really running. I felt fast, at least for me, and that's worth something.

The problem for me is, well, stopping. I can't figure out how to maintain that springy mid-foot strike when slowing down, so I still get achy knees due to the stops associated with me slowing to a walk for rest. Cause, well, I'm fat and outta shape and can't just keep going. It's irritating.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Saturday is race day and I'm getting mixed signals from the body...we'll see.

J

I have it on good intelligence that you did well, only made one tactical mistake and even with a broken toe finished in a decent place. I'm proud of you for pushing past your mixed signals and other pains.

 

[ImOnIt]

I suck at running, always have. Slow, awful gait, no wind. It is an awful way for me to sweat. Out of a moment of sheer perversity, I picked up the chi running book. It was VERY interesting. I eventually gave it a try, and, sure enough, I was able to run without KILLING my knees mostly. It was also the first time in my life that I felt like I was really running. I felt fast, at least for me, and that's worth something.

The problem for me is, well, stopping. I can't figure out how to maintain that springy mid-foot strike when slowing down, so I still get achy knees due to the stops associated with me slowing to a walk for rest. Cause, well, I'm fat and outta shape and can't just keep going. It's irritating.

You could gently slow over a quarter mile or so, just like cyclists in the velodrome. They don't have brakes on race bikes so they have to roll to a halt

 

[Keroin]

For the record...

I am dumb.

"Don't lift any of the heavy stuff alone."

He should have branded the words on my forehead. Now, no gym. Poo.



Dumb.

 

[ultramarineblue]

This is going to sound kind of lame, but with me, the action has to come before the motivation for something like this. If I wait to be motivated to go to the gym, I won't.

But then I feel so good afterward, and am not climbing the fucking walls or snapping at people, that it perpetuates the motivation.

I know this but still haven't managed to get myself to do it yet.

 

[Homburg]

You could gently slow over a quarter mile or so, just like cyclists in the velodrome. They don't have brakes on race bikes so they have to roll to a halt

The problem is that stopping basically requires heel strikes. It's how you put the brakes on. I've not figured out how to slow.

--

For the record...

I am dumb.

"Don't lift any of the heavy stuff alone."

He should have branded the words on my forehead. Now, no gym. Poo.



Dumb.

Um, what happened?

And, also for the record, I've gone pretty darned heavy by myself many times. Proper safety precautions can help make up for a lot. That said, I have certainly gotten myself into trouble going solo. It's dangerous.

 

[subish2009]

I suggest that you wander around the various videos and articles on running form and preventing injuries at newtonrunning.com (example here: http://www.newtonrunning.com/run-be...njury-prevention/177-prevent-running-injuries). What happens with the barefoot or "natural running" form is that you eliminate the heel strike. Two bad things happen with heel-strike running form. First, the impact of the body weight landing on the heel has nowhere to go but back up into the leg and knee. This is one of the causes of cartilage wear from running. Second, your heel is small and rounded and so it's a lousy surface on which to land. Depending on how well balanced your stride is, your foot might roll any which way before settling down onto the flatter and wider mid-foot region and ball of the foot. This leads to injury due to pronation or supination. If, instead, you land on your mid-foot, you will be landing on a relatively wider place so your foot won't roll nearly as much. And, when you land on your mid- or fore-foot region, the foot will be able to act as a spring to absorb the downward energy of your body weight and propel it forward. The foot and knee can then work together as springs to absorb the downward thrust of your body weight and convert it to forward motion with little or no impact.

What I'm learned as I dig more deeply into this is that the big cushy heels of "modern" running shoes make it imperative to run by landing on your heels and this is an impact-based running form rather than a springy running form like you'd use quite naturally if you were running barefoot on comfy grass or a sandy beach.

Experiment: try running in place. Most likely you'll find yourself landing somewhere forward of your heel and your foot and legs will feel kind of springy. Now try to run in place while you land on your heels first. You'll feel the impact of those heel-strikes all the way up your leg. Now ask yourself which way you'd rather feel as you run while moving forward.

Now, to get back to your quick question: I think that if you can adopt a springier running style such as folks use in the barefoot or natural (or chi or POSE or evolution styles) you will find that your other injuries might not impede your running the way they do now. I doubt if they'll be cured by this change, but I suspect they might not be aggravated and made worse either.

Thank you! I've been forbidden to run for the past 10 years because of the damage I did to my knee cartilage in high school and college. Nothing traumatic happened, just genetically unlucky, and my knees are both nearly bone-on-bone. Since I was 23. (I may have told this story before, but I was one of those people whose MRIs they drag all the med students in to see...so they can do a double-take after looking at the film, looking at me, looking back at the film and exclaiming, "Wait...these are HER knees?!?" I had the knees of someone more than twice my age by the time I could legally drink. Gene pool fail.)

I'm not dumb enough to go, "Yay! I can start running again! My problems are over!" But this gives me a starting place to go talk to some PTs and/or sports medicine docs and get some additional opinions. I don't want to run a marathon, but a few miles a week would make me a happy girl. On the other hand, not having a total knee replacement before I'm 40 would make me even happier.

I remember in high school learning about why the Kenyans did so well with barefoot running in the Olympics. That was before the trend spread, obviously. I never thought about how it could apply to me. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[Keroin]

Um, what happened?

And, also for the record, I've gone pretty darned heavy by myself many times. Proper safety precautions can help make up for a lot. That said, I have certainly gotten myself into trouble going solo. It's dangerous.

No, the heavy lifting was moving stuff - awkward and heavy and definitely shouldn't have done it myself.

Did I mention I was dumb?

So, back is beyond fuckley. Tomorrow I'm going to the doc for some pain killers. Tried to cowboy up but now it hurts when I breathe soooooo...that's probably bad.

 

[ImOnIt]

Poor poor giraffe.

 

[Keroin]

Poor poor giraffe.

*snort*

 

[JamieJ424]

I did, thank you. Had a great time, and it bodes well for meeting my goal of getting on the podium before this race series is over. Next time I need to keep my head in it till the very end and remember a sprint in a bicycle race is not a drag race!

I have it on good intelligence that you did well, only made one tactical mistake and even with a broken toe finished in a decent place. I'm proud of you for pushing past your mixed signals and other pains.

 

[FloggingMolly]

well, I went back to slimming world to restart. In the last year, I lost 1 lb. Onwards and downwards, eh?

 

[ImOnIt]

well, I went back to slimming world to restart. In the last year, I lost 1 lb. Onwards and downwards, eh?

A- you have no more weight to lose

B- you are not maintaining a deficit of energy in vs energy out.

 

[Cattypuss]

well, I went back to slimming world to restart. In the last year, I lost 1 lb. Onwards and downwards, eh?

Good luck Molly. For what it's worth and notwithstanding what I'm about to say, I think that SW is the best diet-based weight-loss plan going. I lost over 3 stone on it last year, and felt very healthy on it and rarely hungry.

I am in a different place now.

After 30 years of yoyo dieting I finally got to the point just recently where I looked at WHY I overeat instead of just trying not to overeat. This has been a major turning point in my life. I now know that dieting will never work for me long-term - and I know why I always regained the weight. For me, fixing the reason I overeat is going to be the key to fixing my weight, permanently. It's been a shockingly difficult, painful journey, these last few months (the reasons I overeat are rooted in some very deep and painful, old stuff that was not easy to look at), but I am so glad I took it.

An interesting statistic - 98% of those who lose weight through dieting put every pound back on, with 9 out of 10 weighing more 5 years later than they did to begin with. Which now makes perfect sense to me - dieting doesn't fix the emotional issues underlying the overeating.

 

[FloggingMolly]

Good luck Molly. For what it's worth and notwithstanding what I'm about to say, I think that SW is the best diet-based weight-loss plan going. I lost over 3 stone on it last year, and felt very healthy on it and rarely hungry.

I am in a different place now.

After 30 years of yoyo dieting I finally got to the point just recently where I looked at WHY I overeat instead of just trying not to overeat. This has been a major turning point in my life. I now know that dieting will never work for me long-term - and I know why I always regained the weight. For me, fixing the reason I overeat is going to be the key to fixing my weight, permanently. It's been a shockingly difficult, painful journey, these last few months (the reasons I overeat are rooted in some very deep and painful, old stuff that was not easy to look at), but I am so glad I took it.

An interesting statistic - 98% of those who lose weight through dieting put every pound back on, with 9 out of 10 weighing more 5 years later than they did to begin with. Which now makes perfect sense to me - dieting doesn't fix the emotional issues underlying the overeating.

Makes sense to me hon I know that I overeat due to my general resentment and feelings of failure/being inferior, and to pick up my mood. Fixing that shit is all tied in to getting NHS treatment that requires bmi below 30, so its all one big circle here.

 

[Cattypuss]

Makes sense to me hon I know that I overeat due to my general resentment and feelings of failure/being inferior, and to pick up my mood. Fixing that shit is all tied in to getting NHS treatment that requires bmi below 30, so its all one big circle here.

If you're interested in exploring this stuff (alongside SW, even), then PM me and I'll recommend a book or two.