I see my score is 4.18

[yowser]

Think about it, a reader looks at your profile and sees your Romance story with a Red H on it and your LW story with no Red H on it and decides to read the Romance because it's rated HOT! But let's look at the reality. The LW crowd is difficult to please because it is so fractured and the different factions are terribly judgemental. 4.5 in LW is probably the 80th percentile. On the other hand, the Romance crowd is easy to pander to and so long as you tick the boxes correctly you get an easy A. 4.5 in Romance is probably the 40th percentile! (have you seen some of the garbage that scores 4.8 in Romance??) Your LW story scored 4.22 which is around the 70th percentile, say, while your Romance scores a 4.62 which is roughly the 50th percentile, say.

Are you saying (sob) that my only Romance story, the one that I poured my life and soul into (sob) spilling my tear-soaked emotions out into the cold cruel world of misty fens and hostile archivists, you're telling me my Scarlet H is 40th percentile?

I withdraw from the field, crushed and destroyed.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed is by not allowing anonymous readers to vote. Once that is implemented, there is more than one way to significantly improve the accuracy of scores.
But as long as you allow anonymous readers to vote (anonymous commenting is still fine, of course), there is no solution that can prevent serious abuse of the system. All of this stems from the fact that anonymous users can only be tracked through their IPs, and IPs can be abused limitlessly.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed is by not allowing anonymous readers to vote. Once that is implemented, there is more than one way to significantly improve the accuracy of scores.

What do you mean by anonymous voting? I am not aware of a single vote on the entire site with a name publicly attached to it, other than the very rare commenter who tells you what their vote was, and even then that's on the honor system.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Are you saying (sob) that my only Romance story, the one that I poured my life and soul into (sob) spilling my tear-soaked emotions out into the cold cruel world of misty fens and hostile archivists, you're telling me my Scarlet H is 40th percentile?

I withdraw from the field, crushed and destroyed.

Don't feel bad. My Romance story is at 4.3.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

PSG! That’s so mean. Maybe you should earn one before you talk so bad about them.

Now, that's one of the very stupidest comments that I've ever read.

 

[SimonDoom]

The only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed is by not allowing anonymous readers to vote. Once that is implemented, there is more than one way to significantly improve the accuracy of scores.
But as long as you allow anonymous readers to vote (anonymous commenting is still fine, of course), there is no solution that can prevent serious abuse of the system. All of this stems from the fact that anonymous users can only be tracked through their IPs, and IPs can be abused limitlessly.

I suppose they CAN be abused, but are they? How common is this? Is it common enough that it should be regarded as a problem to be fixed? Is the harm of anonymous voting worse than the benefit?

I looked at your stories. You have 14 stories published from 2023 to 2024. Your average score is 4.77, which is excellent (significantly higher than my average), and it shows no sign that you've been unfairly treated by anonymous voters. I checked your comments. You have comments from named and anonymous readers. They range from favorable to unfavorable, but there are many favorable comments, and your level of engagement is high -- over 19 comments per story, a high number relative to the views the stories receive, although that's somewhat magnified by the fact that your responses also count as comments. But even taking that into account, it's a good response. I don't see anything illegitimate about the anonymous commenting on your stories.

You have complained in the past that you were the victim of a campaign of downvoting by anonymous voters, and the site didn't do enough about it. But two points about that.

One, it doesn't seem to be affecting your stories now, so the problem seems to have been taken care of. I see no current evidence that anonymous voting is causing you any ongoing harm, based on your story scores, your views, favorites, and reader responses.

Second, even if it was a big problem at one point, it's an unusual problem, at least to the extent that it was happening to you. Most of us get some nasty anonymous voting, but that's a feature, not a bug. It's not a problem to solve. I cannot recall ever having encountered a campaign of downvoting by anonymous voters. I see no evidence that deliberate anonymous downvoting is such a widespread problem affecting so many authors that it is a problem that must be taken care of.

The question remains: why is this a problem for the site to solve? Your unusual experience, even if you are completely accurate in your surmise about what happened, is not a sufficient ground for changing everything for everyone. I want anonymous votes; you don't. We're even. There's no right or wrong about it. I suspect most authors don't care. There are plenty of other authors in this forum who agree with me, and some don't. I see no evidence that on average anonymous votes and comments are less "worthy" than anyone else's.

I don't see the evidence that anonymous voting is, on balance, unfair. The fact that it's unfair for some people some of the time doesn't make it unfair as a whole, and it doesn't create a problem that the site should feel compelled to solve when the disadvantages of depriving huge numbers of readers of the right to vote are so obvious.

 

[alohadave]

I can't be arsed to go through everyone's maths, but if the Red H was linked to percentiles, we can all guess what will happen. People will start loading their own stories with 5s, bombing other stories that come close, and generally becoming even pettier than they are now.

Other authors don't vote on their own stories?

The only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed is by not allowing anonymous readers to vote. Once that is implemented, there is more than one way to significantly improve the accuracy of scores.
But as long as you allow anonymous readers to vote (anonymous commenting is still fine, of course), there is no solution that can prevent serious abuse of the system. All of this stems from the fact that anonymous users can only be tracked through their IPs, and IPs can be abused limitlessly.

SOL requires a logged in account to vote and they complain about the exact same things as we do here.

The admin took away the individual vote counts and only shows the aggregate score because authors were such a PITA about it.

 

[BlazonG]

Now, that's one of the very stupidest comments that I've ever read.

Dropped 5s on your two highest rated stories just to be nice. You wrote a 67k word novella about racing? That’s pretty cool actually.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Why so much consternation about votes and scores? You write what you want, put it out there, and they like it, or they don't. What difference does it make? Trying to find a better voting system, eliminating bad votes, one-bombs, whatever, doesn't change the quality of your writing. All this chasing after the red H, it isn't what writing is about. Express yourself and don't fucking worrywart about this bullshit.

Okay, I've said what I believe, and I'm sure to many of you all, I'm the one full of bullshit. But that's what I think, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What do you mean by anonymous voting? I am not aware of a single vote on the entire site with a name publicly attached to it, other than the very rare commenter who tells you what their vote was, and even then that's on the honor system.

I agree with this. No-one but the site knows which votes come from anon or from an account holder, so everyone is equal here. If people think the score ranks one person against another (I don't think that, but I suspect some people do), then no-one is advantaged or disadvantaged, we're all in the same depths of the swamp.

If you took anon votes out of the equation, then the vote/view ratio is going to drop, to the point where the 1% response rate, which is what it is now in most categories, is going to become noise, absolutely worthless. You might just as well give stories coloured hearts on a completely random, spin the wheel basis.

What so many people always seem to forget, is that the score is the result of all those readers voting using whatever vote criteria they choose, and none of us know what that criteria is. Too many people assume it's always malicious, that readers are out to fuck you with their score, which is a pretty bleak view of human behaviour. That's a glass is half empty world view. Be a glass is half full type of person, you'll feel much better about stuff like this.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Too many people assume it's always malicious, that readers are out to fuck you with their score, which is a pretty bleak view of human behaviour. That's a glass is half empty world view. Be a glass is half full type of person, you'll feel much better about stuff like this.

Not if they get a 5. 5s are always legit. ; )

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Dropped 5s on your two highest rated stories just to be nice. You wrote a 67k word novella about racing? That’s pretty cool actually.

Thanks, appreciate the sentiment, but if you didn't read them you just 5-bombed me. : /

 

[Voboy]

The only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed is by not allowing anonymous readers to vote. Once that is implemented, there is more than one way to significantly improve the accuracy of scores.
But as long as you allow anonymous readers to vote (anonymous commenting is still fine, of course), there is no solution that can prevent serious abuse of the system. All of this stems from the fact that anonymous users can only be tracked through their IPs, and IPs can be abused limitlessly.

Lol, no, that's FAR from "the only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed." There are several ways to skin that particular cat. There is also no guarantee your system can't be gamed the same way this one is.

And, as I've pointed out to you before, you downplay the very real negatives of eliminating non-logged-in votes. Those negatives have been pointed out to you many times. You tend to gloss over them routinely.

Everyone has a point of view, obviously, but it's important to be intellectually honest about both the pros AND the cons of any prospective system.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've given the stories I read of yours five stars as well. I've only read three, but Untouchable, Fucking in Pastel, and Dark Brush were all worthy of five stars, in my opinion. And to be honest, when I vote, my opinion is the only one that matters!

Thanks, appreciate the sentiment, but if you didn't read them you just 5-bombed me. : /

 

[MillieDynamite]

And one more thing, @pink_silk_glove, since Untouchable is second person, a five from me is extremely high praise. I fucking hate second person, but you did it well.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Lol, no, that's FAR from "the only way a reasonably fair and accurate rating system can be developed." There are several ways to skin that particular cat. There is also no guarantee your system can't be gamed the same way this one is.

And, as I've pointed out to you before, you downplay the very real negatives of eliminating non-logged-in votes. Those negatives have been pointed out to you many times. You tend to gloss over them routinely.

Everyone has a point of view, obviously, but it's important to be intellectually honest about both the pros AND the cons of any prospective system.

As I said, the problem is that you can never track anonymous voters. They can vote as many times as they like. And by anonymous voters @pink_silk_glove, I mean unregistered voters. Only by being able to track the voters can you develop a reasonably fair system.

@alohadave
You are right, SOL's system doesn't work that well either, but for different reasons. A system using 1-10 stars gives way too much power to the 1 star, even if the votes are weighted. There are simple but much more accurate and fair methods that could be implemented if Literotica disallowed unregistered voting.

If someone really wants to go into the math and mechanics of it, I can present and easily prove a much more accurate method of voting, assuming only registered users could vote, of course.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I suppose they CAN be abused, but are they? How common is this? Is it common enough that it should be regarded as a problem to be fixed? Is the harm of anonymous voting worse than the benefit?

I looked at your stories. You have 14 stories published from 2023 to 2024. Your average score is 4.77, which is excellent (significantly higher than my average), and it shows no sign that you've been unfairly treated by anonymous voters. I checked your comments. You have comments from named and anonymous readers. They range from favorable to unfavorable, but there are many favorable comments, and your level of engagement is high -- over 19 comments per story, a high number relative to the views the stories receive, although that's somewhat magnified by the fact that your responses also count as comments. But even taking that into account, it's a good response. I don't see anything illegitimate about the anonymous commenting on your stories.

You have complained in the past that you were the victim of a campaign of downvoting by anonymous voters, and the site didn't do enough about it. But two points about that.

One, it doesn't seem to be affecting your stories now, so the problem seems to have been taken care of. I see no current evidence that anonymous voting is causing you any ongoing harm, based on your story scores, your views, favorites, and reader responses.

Second, even if it was a big problem at one point, it's an unusual problem, at least to the extent that it was happening to you. Most of us get some nasty anonymous voting, but that's a feature, not a bug. It's not a problem to solve. I cannot recall ever having encountered a campaign of downvoting by anonymous voters. I see no evidence that deliberate anonymous downvoting is such a widespread problem affecting so many authors that it is a problem that must be taken care of.

The question remains: why is this a problem for the site to solve? Your unusual experience, even if you are completely accurate in your surmise about what happened, is not a sufficient ground for changing everything for everyone. I want anonymous votes; you don't. We're even. There's no right or wrong about it. I suspect most authors don't care. There are plenty of other authors in this forum who agree with me, and some don't. I see no evidence that on average anonymous votes and comments are less "worthy" than anyone else's.

I don't see the evidence that anonymous voting is, on balance, unfair. The fact that it's unfair for some people some of the time doesn't make it unfair as a whole, and it doesn't create a problem that the site should feel compelled to solve when the disadvantages of depriving huge numbers of readers of the right to vote are so obvious.

I am not talking about my own case here, Simon. No one should be bothered whether my scores are accurate or not. I honestly don't care much about anything related to Literotica anymore. I just want to point out from a nerdy point of view that there are better ways to implement voting, if you cared about score accuracy and fairness, which Literotica clearly doesn't.

This is all fun math and logic brainstorming, nothing else.

 

[SmokingFap]

I can count to eleven, if I have my hands in my pockets.

You don't have any toes, either?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And by anonymous voters @pink_silk_glove, I mean unregistered voters. Only by being able to track the voters can you develop a reasonably fair system.

Then say unregistered. There is a big difference.

Even so, it is very questionable just how much fraudulent voting would be reduced by forcing voters to log in. No one can put any accurate number on it, but with my experiences, logging in hasn't seemed to stop anyone from trolling me, so I highly doubt that disallowing unregistered voting will curb fraudulent votes nearly as effectively as you claim.

On the other hand, we so know that there are thousands of readers out there who vote and comment on our stories who do not even have an account. These are legit votes and valuable feedback that we will eliminate if we implement what you want. We get votes at roughly 1 per 100 views, and comments at roughly 1 per 1000 views, which is scant little as it is. I am absolutely dead set against slaughtering the feedback rate here just so that your 4.77s can inch up to 4.81s.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've given the stories I read of yours five stars as well. I've only read three, but Untouchable, Fucking in Pastel, and Dark Brush were all worthy of five stars, in my opinion. And to be honest, when I vote, my opinion is the only one that matters!

And one more thing, @pink_silk_glove, since Untouchable is second person, a five from me is extremely high praise. I fucking hate second person, but you did it well.

Thank you. : )

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I am not talking about my own case here, Simon. No one should be bothered whether my scores are accurate or not.

Based on your previous rants over the past few months, I don't believe that for a second. Your crusade has been quite selfish actually. Just sayin'.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've given the stories I read of yours five stars as well. I've only read three, but Untouchable, Fucking in Pastel, and Dark Brush were all worthy of five stars, in my opinion. And to be honest, when I vote, my opinion is the only one that matters!

Exactly, which is why the whole 'better grading system' obsession isn't one I buy into. Readers have different tastes and requirements for what they view as a good/bad story. Subjective is always going to mean something, all the chatter is about finding a new way for every reader to still view a story by taste, not the infamous "merit" we hear about.

 

[BlazonG]

Thanks, appreciate the sentiment, but if you didn't read them you just 5-bombed me. : /

I read quite a bit

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Then say unregistered. There is a big difference.

Even so, it is very questionable just how much fraudulent voting would be reduced by forcing voters to log in. No one can put any accurate number on it, but with my experiences, logging in hasn't seemed to stop anyone from trolling me, so I highly doubt that disallowing unregistered voting will curb fraudulent votes nearly as effectively as you claim.

On the other hand, we so know that there are thousands of readers out there who vote and comment on our stories who do not even have an account. These are legit votes and valuable feedback that we will eliminate if we implement what you want. We get votes at roughly 1 per 100 views, and comments at roughly 1 per 1000 views, which is scant little as it is. I am absolutely dead set against slaughtering the feedback rate here just so that your 4.77s can inch up to 4.81s.

There is no reason to disallow unregistered comments. I am only talking about votes. Also, there is no point in talking about whether this idea would help or not unless a concrete solution that synergizes with registered voting is presented. And I have one such solution.

Based on your previous rants over the past few months, I don't believe that for a second. Your crusade has been quite selfish actually. Just sayin'.

Unless you are standing in for Tilan, why don't you show me where exactly have I said anything that was about fixing my own scores, especially in the last couple of months, as you say?

 

[old_prof]

I want to second PSG and LC on this.

I think there are three real reasons to care about the rating (and the H's)

1) For the sake of all of our egos. I guess most of us, at least. Maybe some authors don't actually care, but I am dubious that anyone is that pure of intent. I know I like to see an H; it was a good inventive to keep writing after my first submission.

2) To give guidance to readers trying to find stories. As a reader, I know I scanned the scores, ignoring anything below a 4. I also was more likely to read a series if it had a bunch of H's -- just as a short hand for reading all the scores.

3) To give authors feedback on their stories; what works, what doesn't.

Fairness is important for the first two, not so much for the third.

When proposing a "solution", people need to be clear about which problem they are solving, because, while overlapping, they are different issues with different solutions (assuming there are valid solutions at all).