I Will Never Understand the Fascination with Fantasy.

[Belegon]

I have to agree on "Ice and Fire". The author has the sheer bravery to allow his characters and story to take him places that are completely unexpected.

Joe, I don't think it is necessarily a "lack of imagination" but I will reference something else that I believe plays a part. There is a necessary ingredient (for enjoying SF and epic fantasy) to your makeup that you either simply do not have or don't care to recognize at this point. NOT meant as a criticism. One of my dearest friends has the same point of view.

I call it "The willing suspension of disbelief". Lacking it simply means that you are focused on your own reality at this point in time and you don't become involved in these alternative worlds because they are not real enough to you at this time.

Does that mean you will never be able to enjoy these genre's? No. It just means they don't appeal to you right now.

Dude , read what you enjoy. I love heroic "epic" fantasy. I also love Shakespeare and baseball. So what. What is important is what you love. If you are deliberately trying to break into these genres, try some of the books mentioned in this thread or try some short story anthologies. Otherwise, maybe someday you will enjoy these stories, maybe not. Doesn't change who you are.

 

[English Lady]

I agree with Belegon 100%-in fact ignore my comment and read that last one twice*L*

 

[Weird Harold]

My reading is pretty dry, though, I think--with a few colorful spots here and there. I read a lot of philosophy. I read newspapers. I like Stephen King, Grisham, and actually did enjoy some things by Roger Stern and Peter David.

If you like Stephen King and John Grisham, then there is no real reason you should not like fantasy and science fiction -- or at least SOME fantasy and science fiction as Stephen King writes Fantasy as well as Horror with little change in his style, and John Grishom's work has a strong "Speculative Fiction" element to the technical aspects of it which makes it "mild" science fiction.

From the description of your reading, it sounds like you're not big on any sort of fiction. That could be described as a "lack of imagination" but it's really more of a problem with "suspension of disbelief" -- a necessary element of enjoying fiction in general but one that becomes more and more important to enjoying fiction that strays away from "reality."

I find reading "philosophy" to be very boring and dry when it's presented as an authoritative essay. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy philosophy -- I get tons of philosphy in the science fiction and fantasy I read.

Science Fiction in particular deals with predicting the effects of a particular philosphy becoming dominant and what sort of society would result from that philosophy.

Classic Science Fiction/Fantasy novels like 1984, Lord of the Flies, [/u]Animal Farm[/u], Watership Down, Asimov's Foundation trilogy (and later sequels,) Stranger In A Strange Land, Fahrenheit 451 and hundreds of other "Golden Age" titles, are all philosophical treatises more than they are "entertainment." You simply have to suspend enough disbelief in the futuristic trappings to see the philosphy they're based on.

If you can find a copy, you might enjoy Dance Of The Tiger by Bjorn Kurten -- it's catagorized as fantasy, but it's actually a novelization of his doctoral thesis in anthropology.

Fantasy and Science Fiction -- Especially modern Fantasy and Science Fiction -- address issues of importance to the real world in a way that doesn't turn people away from the message.

IMHO, Fantasy and Science Fiction fans tend to be more aware of long-term problems than non-fans because they've "seen" the future and/or the extreme bad effects if a particular trend is allowed to continue.

Fantasy can address race relations, the environment, and all sorts of other issues without generating outrage or controversy -- a morality tale that details the injustice of discrimation against elves won't be ignored by a racist because it doesn't trigger any specific prejudices, but it just might plant a seed or two about why prejudice in general is bad.

I'm not really trying to convert you to a fantasy and/or SF fan, just trying to explain why I am one -- In short, I find Fantasy and Science Fiction to be a good way to understand the world's problems without getting depressed about them.

 

[Alex De Kok]

An author I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, although most likely because what she writes is categorised as 'Science-Fiction', is C J Cherryh. Read her 'Foreigner' and 'Chanur' series for two collections of character-driven enjoyment. Both series take us into the minds of alien cultures, to the extent that the humans in the books are the outsiders. One of my favourite characters in fiction is Ilisidi, the atevi dowager in the 'Foreigner' series.

Most of my fiction reading is borrowed from the library, but both of these series are in my bookcase. Along with LOTR and Harry Potter, but that's another story!

Alex

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

An interesting series of opinions, really.

From my standpoint, I always considered a lack of formal philosophy reading to be indicative of a lack of imagination or lack of suspension of disbelief--as it can get very, very abstract and run contrary to preference.

 

[Guest]

Joe, I so used to be the same as you. I never understood the fascination with fantasy, either!

I am very widely read, but my favourite genre is, and always has been, horror. But as Weird Harold (I think it was him) stated, horror sometimes isn't that far removed from fantasy - especially the mainstream kind of horror that King writes. His Dark Tower series is almost pure fantasy - which is a lot better than much of his horror stuff. I do like King, don't get me wrong, but he is hardly a risk taker. My tastes are more extreme and experimental, you could say.

Anyway, back to fantasy. I also don't want to offend anyone with what I'm about to say (largely because I know it just isn't true), but I used to have the blinkered opinion that fantasy was for geeks and nerds (says a lot about what I think of my hubby!). It was for people who got into going role playing, with their funny little dice, playing Dungeons and Dragons.

That is until I read my first fantasy novel. I decided to take the plunge one day, to broaden my horizons. I found myself engulfed in the novel. It had nothing to do with the world, the monsters, the quest, etc. It was about the good writing and the believable characters.

There's dreck within the fantasy genre, just like any other genre. But, ultimately, reading a fantasy novel is no different from reading a different kind of novel - it all depends on the quality of the author. The current trilogy I'm reading has a very strong military feel - not really my thing at all - but I look beyond that and I see the very real characters and their struggles and motivations, which are, fundamentally, very "normal". There are some amazing sex scenes in this book, which really hold my interest. In fact, for the first one and a half books the author kept building up a possible threesome. Will it happen? Won't it happen? Will the men be able to get past their rivalry and jealousy? Will the woman seduce them both, at the same time? And so on. When it finally happened - WOW!

At the end of the day, it does not matter what genre I'm reading. If the novel is good, it's good. It's as simple as that. I've dropped all prejudice now and any pre-conceived notions I might have had about any particular genre and will give anything a try. Oh, except flowery romance novels, but that's a different discussion entirely.

Lou

 

[oggbashan]

Good or Bad Fantasy

I think there is too much bad fantasy writing and yet much that is good.

Good fantasy writing is like good poetry - it gives the reader a new perspective on the familiar and a commentary on the human condition. If the characters are human or display human characteristics (even if dwarves or aliens) then the interaction between them can be as fascinating as the minutiae of Jane Austen or the wide sweep of a major thriller.

Bad fantasy writing is just like any other bad writing - formulaic and stereotyped.

Great authors of fantasy tip your perceptions sideways and force you to see something through their eyes. You might not like what you see but you do see it.

Og

 

[boxofrocks]

Too true Ogg!

I feel some have been a bit harsh with (umm, what's his name, the guy that started this thread LOL).

He did cover his rant with apologies profusely, yet still copped the crap for voicing his point of view (as I'm sure I will after this...)

Fantasy isn't my fave genre either. I write, I read. I have my fave story ideas. So he voiced his disapproval or lack of tolerance to one particular type. Bravo I say!

Only for having the guts to ask the question, why the fascination.

I can't read BDSM stories, but read them for friends. I enjoy their stories, and leave votes and comments accordingly.

I think some people come in here too hot headed and don't read what someone had actually written before commenting.

Oh, go on, berate me LOL

(Help me)

 

[rgraham666]

Joe, I can't say I find it the least bit surprising that you don't understand or like SF or fantasy.

However, maybe it's just the stuff you've read. As a different point of departure I recommend William Gibson's Sprawl series. This consists of the novels Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive, as well as the collection of short stories Burning Chrome.

I regard these as very well written books, and although the effect has faded with time I found the books quite incendiary.

 

[Marsipanne]

I like fantasy because it's flexible--you can be anything, do anything, invent anything. Have you ever walked down a street and wished you could jump on to a roof or fly into the air? Of course, you can't do that in real life, but in fantasy you can. A good fantasy book can transport you to another world where you are able to do things you can't in the real world.

Lou--what is that fantasy book you're reading? I have to find it!

 

[Guest]

I like fantasy because it's flexible--you can be anything, do anything, invent anything. Have you ever walked down a street and wished you could jump on to a roof or fly into the air? Of course, you can't do that in real life, but in fantasy you can. A good fantasy book can transport you to another world where you are able to do things you can't in the real world.

Lou--what is that fantasy book you're reading? I have to find it!

Marsipanne, it's The Seer King Trilogy, by Chris Bunch. The first book is Seer King, the second, Demon King and the third Warrior King. They are very well written, and all told from first person POV, from a male perspective. My hubby found the books at our library. We'd never heard of the author before, but he liked the look of the blurb. We'll be buying them now, because I expect both of us will want to read them again. It's a quest type fantasy, with great characters, some of them very strong women.

Lou

 

[sweetnpetite]

Sorry I've taken so long to post, I've been moving and working all day. So, from the top, then?


That being said, I'm not sure that "imagination" is the only prerequisite if we are to say that a lack of imagination is the obtsacle to enjoying Fantasy.

I think you are right about that. I think in general it takes imagination to enjoy any kind of reading, but it does take a special kind of imagination to enjoy fantasy. In addition, I think fantasy is enjoyed by people who have a certain amount of dissatisfaction with reality and the real world, weather it be the boundaries of natural laws or their own specific situation. In other words, wishers and dreamers. Some people are just content and don't do a lot of wishing for things they don't have or can't do. I don't think fantasy holds a lot of fascination for folks like that, people who are content to remain within the boundaries of the possible. And then there are the other types 'the worst sort of muggles' who just don't have any tollerance for the breaching those boundaries. These are people who cant stand to read something they see as nonsense. From your words, I don't suspect you are in that intollerant group, just befuddled. As to why so many people on line are fantasy fans, fantasy and the internet hold many of the same qualities- you can go beyond the boundaries of the possible on line, you can do or be anyone or anything. Many people who spend a lot of time in cyber space are unhappy or at the very least disenchanted with 'real life'

I suspect that you are probably just to dang content with reality. Or else you just haven't found the write book/author. Then again, you seem like you might be a science fiction fan. What's your oppinion on that particular genre?

 

[sweetnpetite]

off topic...

At the end of the day, it does not matter what genre I'm reading. If the novel is good, it's good. It's as simple as that. I've dropped all prejudice now and any pre-conceived notions I might have had about any particular genre and will give anything a try. Oh, except flowery romance novels, but that's a different discussion entirely.

Lou

Thread detour...

Every once in a while I go on a romance novel binge and start reading them, just because I want something I can 'gobble up' quickly. I am always suprised by the interesting things I find out, the amount of research the writer has done, or by their understanding of people. They may not be Neitche, but they always turn out to be more skillful and more meaningful than they are given credit for.

>>>end rant, lol.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I don't think he caught a lot of crap. Most people just said if you don't like it, you shouldn't read it.

The comments that I made were because, appologies notwithstanding, his thread did have a condesending (and closeminded) tone which I tried to ignore, but later chose to point out because I wasn't entirely sure that Joe was aware of it, and that it *could* potentially put people off from responding. He was being closedminded when he started off by saying he would *never* understand and then asking others to explain it. Many would say, if you are already certain that you will *never* understand it, then what is the point?

I have found that in general when people say, 'no offense' they are going to say something offensive, and when they say 'with all due respect' they are going to say something disrespectful. IMO, this little phrase doesn't excuse them saying whatever they want, no matter how rude. the same goes for appologies. We will believe the appolgy if the rest of the thread is consistant with the claim made in the appology. In otherwords if the person seems sincere and openminded. Joes initial post left me wondering (and perhaps some others) if he really did mean what he said when he claimed not to want to offend, or if he just tacked it on so that he could feel like a martyre when people were in fact, offended.

the scale has tipped to the side (ever so slightly) where I think he was sincere, but I still think that his questions where poorly worded, if his intent was not to offend. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I let him know how his words could have easily been taken.

I didn't intend to give him crap, and I don't think anyone else did either. Nor am I giving you crap, simply explaining myself. I hope you understand.

Sweet/

Too true Ogg!

I feel some have been a bit harsh with (umm, what's his name, the guy that started this thread LOL).

He did cover his rant with apologies profusely, yet still copped the crap for voicing his point of view (as I'm sure I will after this...)

Fantasy isn't my fave genre either. I write, I read. I have my fave story ideas. So he voiced his disapproval or lack of tolerance to one particular type. Bravo I say!

Only for having the guts to ask the question, why the fascination.

I can't read BDSM stories, but read them for friends. I enjoy their stories, and leave votes and comments accordingly.

I think some people come in here too hot headed and don't read what someone had actually written before commenting.

Oh, go on, berate me LOL

(Help me)

 

[gauchecritic]

Gotta go with Joe on the fantasy thing. I can't stand the genre but I do read sci-fi almost exclusively. (apart from Pratchett which is humourous and well crafted so it doesn't count)

As a side note, anyone who tells you to read "Do Androids..." because it is what Blade Runner is based on is doing you a real disservice. Read "Do Androids.." by all means but don't expect it to explain Blade Runner. They have as much in common as Total Recall has with "We can remember it for you- wholesale"

Actually "Do Androids..." is a pretty good introspective detective novel in its own right, despite it being sci-fi.

Come to think of it all 'good' sci-fi (space opera notwithstanding) are simply any genre you care to name (detective, western, etc) set in alternative space.

You might enjoy such as the Stainless Steel Rat series as adventure rather than sci-fi.

One pair of books that I will recommend (and have recommended several times on several threads) are "The Science of Discworld" books. You can ignore the Discworld story parts altogether and read the 'essays' between chapters by Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen which cover topics such as anthropology, philosophy, chaos theory, quantum physics and so on.

Maybe a little bit man-in-the-street simplicity but very understandable for those of us not university educated.

If you do, let me know what you think.

Gauche

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I’d take exception to the idea that you need a good imagination to appreciate fantasy. If anything, it seems like it’s the other way around. When you read fantasy, you’re usiing someone else’s imagination. That’s part of the fun.

I cut my teeth on Sci Fi and fantasy, but at some point I lost interest in it. Maybe ‘lost interest’ isn’t the right term, but after awhile it just didn’t give me what I wanted any more. I can appreciate the tremendous enterntainment value, and I still pick up a book of Nebula Award stories or Hugo winners every so often in the library, but I think I slowly became more interested in what people think and feel and make of their lives than in the things they do, and most fantasy I’ve read is basically adventure fiction. No matter how exotic the world portrayed in fantasy is, adventure fiction is limited and ultimately pretty superficial. It doesn’t help you much in making sense of your life.

As far as entertainment goes, good fantasy is pretty hard to beat. But if you want more than that, it’s quite lacking, in my opinion.

---dr.M.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Never could quite get behind Science Fiction, either. Though I did like "Quantum Leap", I recall

 

[crbrianb]

I've scimmed through the postings on this thread, and it seems the original question was why do fans of sci-fi/fantasy enjoy it. Most people seemes to post suggestion to what they like, and not why.

The reason that I enjoy sci-fi/fantasy is that I get enough reality out of life that I don't need more of it. I'll admit that I like to escape the humdrums and stress of everyday life, and I find one of the best ways is to open a book, or watch a movie that has nothing to do with life as I know it today. For me this genre require imagination and thought, and helps me to forget for a short time the misery of the world around me.

Stories based on modern era genres just don't require the imagination level of sci-fi/fantasy and remind me to much of what I read in the news paper.