I'm going to have a small rant here.

[Netzach]

QFT.

Also, I'm sure living in a society that consistently pressures women to regularly pay for unnecessary services and expensive things in order to amount to anything doesn't help.

Compare wages between lesbian and gay households without children on average.

Until that changes, every other discussion point on equality is pretty moot. Single sex households are a pretty good illustration actually.

 

[Primalex]

Then I have no idea what you're whinging about.

The statement that (wo)men would fight for equality in all areas.

Maybe you should refrain from replying if you don't have the time to properly follow the postings. Knee-jerk posting after scanning some buzz words rarely serves any purpose.

 

[Primalex]

Compare wages between lesbian and gay households without children on average.

Until that changes, every other discussion point on equality is pretty moot.

So what? Compare wages between gay households and non-gay households and you find that gay households have a higher average earning than the average non-gay household.

The conclusion must be:
Straight men are discriminated!

Until that changes, every other discussion point on equality is pretty moot.

 

[Wyldfire]

Oh hell, I'm just tipsy enough.

Face it. It's life, deal with it. Bars and nightclubs let women in cheaper to draw they guys in. The guys in turn spend more to get to the women or at least to try to.

SEX clubs usually let women in for less or free because otherwise they'd go to a nightclub and take their pick of the litter from the guys looking to score. Unless the sex club is for the gay community they have to do something to bring us girls in or they'd be out of business. Suck it up guys.

 

[ImOnIt]

Face it. It's life, deal with it. Suck it up.

Women get X/Y/X more often, get 1/2/3 less and are more likely to a/b/c.
Ha ha. Face it. It's life, deal with it. Suck it up.

No! You broke the debating rule! Bad!

So what? Compare wages between gay households and non-gay households and you find that gay households have a higher average earning than the average non-gay household.

The conclusion must be:
Straight men are discriminated!

Until that changes, every other discussion point on equality is pretty moot.

I think what Netz said illustrated her point (comparative income of men vs women) clearly (pointing at the average income of a couple who are both the same gender). You make a false step by referring to straight men when talking about a male/female household, where the woman on average is the lower waged.

 

[Wyldfire]

You're assuming I'm using rules.

 

[satindesire]

You're assuming I'm using rules.

Dude, he was joking. Lighten up.

 

[Netzach]

I think what Netz said illustrated her point (comparative income of men vs women) clearly (pointing at the average income of a couple who are both the same gender). You make a false step by referring to straight men when talking about a male/female household, where the woman on average is the lower waged.

Yeah, and somehow I'm the comprehension challenged one.

 

[Netzach]

The statement that (wo)men would fight for equality in all areas.

Maybe you should refrain from replying if you don't have the time to properly follow the postings. Knee-jerk posting after scanning some buzz words rarely serves any purpose.

Maybe you are being unbelievable thick and literal in search of cheap fight jollies. Christ.

 

[~Haze~]

Uh, this happens all the time. Women routinely pay higher prices for cars, services, etc at dealerships. While men are likely to be as ignorant of technical issues and pricing as women, the perception is that women will be ignorant. Thus many dealerships take advantage of this by tossing out charges and hoping they won't get noticed.

This may have been true 20-30-40 years ago, but not anymore.

Back then, it was widely assumed that men would handle finances and if there was a woman there buying a car, she would be not be fiscally aware/experienced/capable of following the fast paced wheeling and dealing, number crunching, sales tactics that car sales-staff used to employ.

In the 80's and there was a woman there to buy a vehicle, sales staff would skip over technical aspects and focus on things like vanity mirrors to get a sale.

But now - things have changed.

I am not fond of generalizations, but as a whole - women (informed, intelligent, confident) are much better suited to enter into that type of negotiation.

Women (remember, I am generalizing here) are smarter, shrewder, less impulsive, not easily distracted by the prospect of a new shinny toy (unlike men), and more fiscally responsible than men.

But consumers in general are smarter and the entire market has changed. Most car dealers (especially new car dealers) have converted to no-haggle pricing.

As Danny Devito once said in the movie Other People's Money, You can change the rules, but you can't stop the game.

Now, dealers make their money on the 'back end' with financing incentives and warranty packages, and things like that.

It's quite common for consumers to go in and take a hard stance on the purchase price, get ready to walk away from a sale over 30 dollars and then, start talking to the 'finance manager' who rapes them on those 'back end' add-ons.

It's uninformed, unaware consumers that are targeted - women or men -and there are many of them. In this day and age - it has less and less to do with gender and more to do with how aware the consumer is.

 

[~Haze~]

Dude, he was joking. Lighten up.

Ha... I don't think she took him seriously in the first place.


::turn sarcasm detector on in 3.... 2... 1...::

 

[graceanne]

The reason for this is that where women are, men will come. My sister and best friend are bar tenders, and they've learned this. Find a bar with lots of women, and there will be lots of men. Find a bar with just lots of men . . . no women. It's not necessarily discrimination as much as it's business.

 

[BiBunny]

This may have been true 20-30-40 years ago, but not anymore.

Back then, it was widely assumed that men would handle finances and if there was a woman there buying a car, she would be not be fiscally aware/experienced/capable of following the fast paced wheeling and dealing, number crunching, sales tactics that car sales-staff used to employ.

In the 80's and there was a woman there to buy a vehicle, sales staff would skip over technical aspects and focus on things like vanity mirrors to get a sale.

But now - things have changed.

I am not fond of generalizations, but as a whole - women (informed, intelligent, confident) are much better suited to enter into that type of negotiation.

Women (remember, I am generalizing here) are smarter, shrewder, less impulsive, not easily distracted by the prospect of a new shinny toy (unlike men), and more fiscally responsible than men.

But consumers in general are smarter and the entire market has changed. Most car dealers (especially new car dealers) have converted to no-haggle pricing.

As Danny Devito once said in the movie Other People's Money, You can change the rules, but you can't stop the game.

Now, dealers make their money on the 'back end' with financing incentives and warranty packages, and things like that.

It's quite common for consumers to go in and take a hard stance on the purchase price, get ready to walk away from a sale over 30 dollars and then, start talking to the 'finance manager' who rapes them on those 'back end' add-ons.

It's uninformed, unaware consumers that are targeted - women or men -and there are many of them. In this day and age - it has less and less to do with gender and more to do with how aware the consumer is.

Even if you didn't have "New England" as your location, I could read this and easily say, "You don't live in the South, do you?"

 

[Essene]

Even if you didn't have "New England" as your location, I could read this and easily say, "You don't live in the South, do you?"

Dude. I DO live in NE, and I'd love to know where I can buy a car and they don't look at my gender first.

One of my gal pals just bought a new car for the first time. She consulted me because I don't do BS. I said "Decide before you go in there what your terms are, and stick to them. They're hurting for money, so if they won't give you a good deal, we'll find someone who will. If I have to, I'll get my brother to go with you."

I learned bargaining from my daddy. Tee hee. *twirls hair around finger*

Actually, I did. When I was 17 he bought me a used car, but brought me along to learn. He went to two different dealerships to look at specific cars and prices, then left. He only intended to really buy from a third place. When the third place wouldn't give him the price he wanted he said "Okay, thanks anyway, I'll just go to x,y, or z up the road who have it for the price I want."

The look on the salesperson's face was priceless. He agreed to the proposed price.

He also hung out with me just two years ago when I was buying a jeep, and the same thing worked, but having a guy with you at least in the background is still key. -Even if you know more about cars than he does.

 

[where]

Dude. I DO live in NE, and I'd love to know where I can buy a car and they don't look at my gender first.
.

or the UK. Every bloody time I take the car in for a service I get a ton of flannel about shit that needs doing. Last couple of times I said that I'd have to think about it, and mr trb took it to another to see if we got a better quote and suddenly the car is fine and just needing the odd tweak.

 

[Homburg]

This may have been true 20-30-40 years ago, but not anymore.

Really? I guess when I was selling cars 10 years ago I saw things that don't exist. And the fact that I work in the automotive industry now and see it happening today is anomalous, right? It has gotten better compared to the time frame you mentioned, but only because SOME people are more shrewd. The BS still occurs though, and on a daily basis.

I'm not picking on my industry because I have an axe to grind. I'm picking on it because I see the sexist graft on a regular basis. I've seen the same thing in the computer repair industry, AC work, etc. The unethical portions of the technical fields tend to take advantage of a lack of knowledge on the part of the customer.

On that front though, age is as likely a factor to be defrauded as sex. Very young customers, and very old as well, often pay more.

 

[intothewoods]

I buy economy type cars, so nobody bothers with me. Seriously, there is just not a lot of haggle room. Also, if you find a dealership with an "internet department" (this means different things at different dealerships), you can often get all of your quotes by email and just go with the best one. Sometimes when you get in, they will try and add on like additional warranties and all that, but just stick to what's on the paper. Oh, and you have to get pre-approved first. If their loan offer beats yours, fine, but don't go in with nothing.

I'm sorry, that was a total hijack. I actually like buying cars though.

 

[Homburg]

I buy economy type cars, so nobody bothers with me. Seriously, there is just not a lot of haggle room. Also, if you find a dealership with an "internet department" (this means different things at different dealerships), you can often get all of your quotes by email and just go with the best one. Sometimes when you get in, they will try and add on like additional warranties and all that, but just stick to what's on the paper. Oh, and you have to get pre-approved first. If their loan offer beats yours, fine, but don't go in with nothing.

I'm sorry, that was a total hijack. I actually like buying cars though.

The advent of the internet has totally changed the car buying ball-game, and is the biggest reason why dealerships aren't as bad about this as they used to be. Unfortunately, it is a LOT harder to do the same thing with service depts, and that is where much less progress has been made. Same with body shops, though insurance companies hold them closer to the straight and narrow when they're involved.

 

[Primalex]

I think what Netz said illustrated her point (comparative income of men vs women) clearly (pointing at the average income of a couple who are both the same gender).

Just in your world of circular reasoning.

The reason for the difference must be discrimination because the woman earns less because of discrimination.

Great.

The really sad part is that you don't even recognize this circular reasoning.

You make a false step by referring to straight men when talking about a male/female household, where the woman on average is the lower waged.

No.

You can compare gay single households and straight single households and you will find that the average payment is still higher in gay single households.

So I can make the claim that the difference must be discrimination, too. After all, we don't care about trying to explain it, right? We just state the reason "discrimination" as a fact for income differences.