MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
I wouldn't use the bible to prove anything, except that a great majority of people CAN want to own a book that they never read.
Whee. Bible debate! *considers hopping in, but controlls herself*
Whee. Bible debate! *considers hopping in, but controlls herself*
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,682
Incest is "immoral" because an advanced society cannot exist where several "natural" urges are permitted to flourish.
Let me get all Freudian with you...
In his "The Future of an Illusion" Freud discusses that a civilized society is based upon the cell of the family, and on building invisible lines of conduct.
To keep these cells viable and to keep this conduct beneficial humans must suppress the natural urges of murder and incest (among others).
If you're allowed to murder, of course, someone is then allowed to murder you -- and you can't have a city or a country if everyone is killing each other off, so that has to be done away with.
If you're allowed to fuck your sister then idiot children are born (I have NO idea where the person above got this "incest strengthens the genes" nonsense) and ancestral lines will degrade in quality. Obviously this is bad for the whole "family cell" concept as the heart of all civilized society.
But who's going to MAKE people not murder and committ incest?
As a consequence of supressing these natural urges (Freud goes on to say), trading them for the unnatural institution of civilizaiton, the human race has developed a collective neurosis which manifests itself in the invention of gods, supreme beings who force these codes of conduct and morality on us.
In other words, we created religion because without the threat of hell (or at least the threat of no reincarnative advancement or the threat of no heavenly paradise after death)we wouldn't be strong enough to resist murder and incest, and therefore we wouldn't be strong enough to move beyond tribal life to build a civilization.
So. Is sister fucking "okay"? It depends. According to religious dogma? No. According to accepted standards of civilization building? No. According to you and your sister behind closed door? Sure. Knock yourself out.
Let me get all Freudian with you...
In his "The Future of an Illusion" Freud discusses that a civilized society is based upon the cell of the family, and on building invisible lines of conduct.
To keep these cells viable and to keep this conduct beneficial humans must suppress the natural urges of murder and incest (among others).
If you're allowed to murder, of course, someone is then allowed to murder you -- and you can't have a city or a country if everyone is killing each other off, so that has to be done away with.
If you're allowed to fuck your sister then idiot children are born (I have NO idea where the person above got this "incest strengthens the genes" nonsense) and ancestral lines will degrade in quality. Obviously this is bad for the whole "family cell" concept as the heart of all civilized society.
But who's going to MAKE people not murder and committ incest?
As a consequence of supressing these natural urges (Freud goes on to say), trading them for the unnatural institution of civilizaiton, the human race has developed a collective neurosis which manifests itself in the invention of gods, supreme beings who force these codes of conduct and morality on us.
In other words, we created religion because without the threat of hell (or at least the threat of no reincarnative advancement or the threat of no heavenly paradise after death)we wouldn't be strong enough to resist murder and incest, and therefore we wouldn't be strong enough to move beyond tribal life to build a civilization.
So. Is sister fucking "okay"? It depends. According to religious dogma? No. According to accepted standards of civilization building? No. According to you and your sister behind closed door? Sure. Knock yourself out.
Last edited:
MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
Increasing homozygosity in mates will bring some level of predicability to the outcome of intercourse (the child that is born), and strengthen the influence of desirable genes by increasing their frequency. A man or woman which is homozygous for a particular allele of a gene passes it on to the offspring. If both parents are homozygous for the same Allele the outcome is highly predictable. This goes the same for undesirable genes.
If the parents of a child are both carriers of a trait the child has a
one-fourth chance of inheriting the trait. This is true whether the parents are related or not. The reason that incest leads to these bad traits, it because parents that are homozygous will both more than likely have these negative traits (amongst the positive).
I said earlier that "inbreeding strengthens the genes, whether good or bad". This is very much true.
-V
If the parents of a child are both carriers of a trait the child has a
one-fourth chance of inheriting the trait. This is true whether the parents are related or not. The reason that incest leads to these bad traits, it because parents that are homozygous will both more than likely have these negative traits (amongst the positive).
I said earlier that "inbreeding strengthens the genes, whether good or bad". This is very much true.
-V
Marxist
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Posts
- 18,322
DCL, several good points, but much like the Bible I'd also steer clear of Freud to explain a whole lot either.
He's the beginning of psychotherapy, not the end.
Incest is a crime because it victimizes the young, robbing them of choice and destroying their bodies. It would be hard to find a case of child sex abuse when an uncle or father or brother aren't involved.
Anything two people want to do to each other after the age of consent, that's their own damn twisted business.
MARXIST
He's the beginning of psychotherapy, not the end.
Incest is a crime because it victimizes the young, robbing them of choice and destroying their bodies. It would be hard to find a case of child sex abuse when an uncle or father or brother aren't involved.
Anything two people want to do to each other after the age of consent, that's their own damn twisted business.
MARXIST
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,682
MissVictoria said:
Yes it is. I didn't appreciate the subtle distinction you were making on first reading. Sorry.
Freud is absolutely not the end to psychoanalysis. I just happen to agree with his happy monograph on how supression of natural instincts for the benefit of nation building can lead to a neurosis caused need for belief in a higher moral authority.
And knotty...I can't even begin to discuss anything with you until you make an effort to understand Evolution (one of the most widely supported theories in human history), understand the vast amount of misinformation tossed about by the Creationsists, bone up a bit on space-time, singularities and quantum theory (for the whole Earth going around the sun thing), and come to some agreement with the rest of the educated world about what the definition of "science" is. Otherwise it's just a talk about what you believe, and not about what is, and frankly I'd rather talk to a jar of applesauce than have that conversation.
As for my upbringing -- it was Roman Catholic. I know where you're going with this...No, no nun beat me up and no Priest molested me. There was no traumatic event with screwed with my mind and turned me atheist. I got there all by myself, using a perfectly sound brain, and years and years of reflection and experience.
No offense intended here, truly. I've had this conversation with a great many Lit members here already, several times, so I'm a bit talked out, that's all. If you're truly interested I suppose you could do a search for me and the word "evolution" and you'll come up with plenty of posts.
Wyatt
Author
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2000
- Posts
- 459
If you inbreed in animals to produce stronger progeny it is known as line-breeding.It is well known and oft practised.Nearly every racehorse is at least a double grandchild of Northern Dancer.
If your sister was sterilised or your brother sterile where would be the harm if love was in the air?
If your sister was sterilised or your brother sterile where would be the harm if love was in the air?
G
Guest
Guest
There is a difference between sex involving adult/child and consentual sex between children. The trama of being molested by an adult sounds like an experience that would tear the soul apart. Now I do not approve of incest but what consenting adults do is thier own business.
I had an affair with my older sister while we were teens. I lost my sister the first time we had sex. As one is sweep away by desire you do things that you later regret. She was no longer my sister but the girl I loved and made love with. The loss is forever and your relationship is never the same. Many boys have a crush on a sister but normaly that would never lead to sex. All teen relationships end and breaking up with your sister is horrible. I suspect that consentual sibling incest is the least harmful form of incest. When one adds abuse of any form then it is a very harmful occurance.
I had an affair with my older sister while we were teens. I lost my sister the first time we had sex. As one is sweep away by desire you do things that you later regret. She was no longer my sister but the girl I loved and made love with. The loss is forever and your relationship is never the same. Many boys have a crush on a sister but normaly that would never lead to sex. All teen relationships end and breaking up with your sister is horrible. I suspect that consentual sibling incest is the least harmful form of incest. When one adds abuse of any form then it is a very harmful occurance.
knotty_dude
Virgin
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Posts
- 23
Sorry DCL, didn't mean to bring up an old tired subject. All I'll say is that I've studied evolution enough to come to own conclusions and it has NOTHING to do with religion. Actually for some, evolution could a religion, or cult! Anyway I'll drop that as I know people get riled up about it either way.
To the previous unregistered, you admitted that consenting sex between is still incest but the least harmful. Excuse me, um, but does that make it all right? Yeah there's the emotional pain from it as you mention plus it aint frickin' right! Incest is abuse! Sorry but I don't quite follow you, you seem to condemn & condone incest at the same time. Which way do you follow?
To the previous unregistered, you admitted that consenting sex between is still incest but the least harmful. Excuse me, um, but does that make it all right? Yeah there's the emotional pain from it as you mention plus it aint frickin' right! Incest is abuse! Sorry but I don't quite follow you, you seem to condemn & condone incest at the same time. Which way do you follow?
G
Guest
Guest
Does sex between first cousins constitute incest?I think it depends upon which State you live in.In the UK it's legal,unless you are Royalty and then it's almost compulsory.Ancient Egyptian royals interbred to keep the blood.Heaven knows how their gene pool looked.Probably explains why they died out.It is only the constraints of whichever society you happen to be living in at the time that determines what constitutes incest.With our methods of birth control it is only the thought of becoming a social pariah that stops more people being more open.Judging by the number of hits on incest stories many people are at least curious about the subject.
Does a polyandrous society weaken the gene pool?Of course.It would ultimately lead to related bloodlines crossing.Whilst not as debilitating as a brother/sister child it would inevitably lead to genetic weaknesses.
If it is from a moral stand point we object it is hard to argue against allowing consensual sex between adult patners in a loving relationship.Of course this would bring problems.Every relationship has problems.
Now I'm going to retire to a corner,put on my hard hat and wait for the wrath of DCL and knotty dude to descend on me.
Does a polyandrous society weaken the gene pool?Of course.It would ultimately lead to related bloodlines crossing.Whilst not as debilitating as a brother/sister child it would inevitably lead to genetic weaknesses.
If it is from a moral stand point we object it is hard to argue against allowing consensual sex between adult patners in a loving relationship.Of course this would bring problems.Every relationship has problems.
Now I'm going to retire to a corner,put on my hard hat and wait for the wrath of DCL and knotty dude to descend on me.
G
Guest
Guest
Knotty dude: To answer your questions. I do not approve of incest. As a boy; I made the error of being in love with the wrong person. I suspect that many boys have a relationship with an older sister. I see the impact of incest the least harmful if no adult is involved! It appears to me that if two children nearly the same age have incest it is the least harmful form and may fall into the sexual experimentation stage of development. An adult has power and is a predator on a children. Now the Law can deal with them. I think that some older brother/younger sister relationships may also fall into that range due to the age difference. Knotty dude are you saying that I was a victim?
I think that incest attacks trust in a family. I betrayed the trust of a brother and took advantage of my sister. I should have been the one to protect her rather than be with her. She felt romantic love for me and expressed it and allowed our relationship to start. Now even though I was the younger; a male in our society has more power in the family than a female. But I feel we were both guilty and equal. To answer the above question about the looks of girls in incest, my sister was stunning, a lovely girl while I am a plainly made man. I think that looks of the females in incest would reflect those of the general society.
I think that incest attacks trust in a family. I betrayed the trust of a brother and took advantage of my sister. I should have been the one to protect her rather than be with her. She felt romantic love for me and expressed it and allowed our relationship to start. Now even though I was the younger; a male in our society has more power in the family than a female. But I feel we were both guilty and equal. To answer the above question about the looks of girls in incest, my sister was stunning, a lovely girl while I am a plainly made man. I think that looks of the females in incest would reflect those of the general society.
Inest & The Bible -- DCL & Miss Victoria
Some thoughts if I may: -
1) Guess if two siblings with perfect genes had offspring it would have p[erfect genes. Animals get away with it but humans don't (maybe because we should know better and are meant to reproduce with someone not of our blood, i.e. a sibling) and the fact is that such offspring are physically deformed or, more often than not, insane.
2) Incest is wrong and there's nothing more to say.
3) Yeah, Bible is part truth (often much embellished) and part fiction.
4) After three near deaths, one very close, I can tell DCL without a shadow of doubt that there is a Superior Being, Power or whatever. In the closest near death, I heard Him, Her or It but that was as far as He, She or It allowed me to go -- close enough to be told I had to go back, my time was up when HE, She or It decided.
And no, DCL or anyone else -- I'm not off my rocker --- just bin there, done that, got the T-shirts (three of the buggers!).
Some thoughts if I may: -
1) Guess if two siblings with perfect genes had offspring it would have p[erfect genes. Animals get away with it but humans don't (maybe because we should know better and are meant to reproduce with someone not of our blood, i.e. a sibling) and the fact is that such offspring are physically deformed or, more often than not, insane.
2) Incest is wrong and there's nothing more to say.
3) Yeah, Bible is part truth (often much embellished) and part fiction.
4) After three near deaths, one very close, I can tell DCL without a shadow of doubt that there is a Superior Being, Power or whatever. In the closest near death, I heard Him, Her or It but that was as far as He, She or It allowed me to go -- close enough to be told I had to go back, my time was up when HE, She or It decided.
And no, DCL or anyone else -- I'm not off my rocker --- just bin there, done that, got the T-shirts (three of the buggers!).
MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
Malgbs
I'm intruiged... Tell me all about your near-death experience.
I'm not sure that we can go so far as to say that incest is "bad". Several dynasties did it for centuries, thriving, giving birth to well known figures of our history. I'd be willing to guess that most of us have an incestuous coupling somewhere in our past.
*drools for a second like an idiot as her IQ drops, then snaps back to normal*
I like to fancy myself a theologist. In reality, it is my hobby. I'd love to hear more about your meeting with a higher power.
-V
I'm intruiged... Tell me all about your near-death experience.
I'm not sure that we can go so far as to say that incest is "bad". Several dynasties did it for centuries, thriving, giving birth to well known figures of our history. I'd be willing to guess that most of us have an incestuous coupling somewhere in our past.
*drools for a second like an idiot as her IQ drops, then snaps back to normal*
I like to fancy myself a theologist. In reality, it is my hobby. I'd love to hear more about your meeting with a higher power.
-V
Inest etc -- Miss Victoria
Miss Victoria
Hi !
First, new to this -- only my second post.
Second -- do this poor bugger and vote for one or more of chapters 1 to 5 (6 is pending, sidetracked as regards 7 et seq) of what i know is my crappy story -- part true, part fiction (which is which is secret! only tell you giving 8 hours of oral to my then USA girlfriend is true, she came and came and kept coming until I was exhausted!). So far, I've hit the keyboard, hit spellcheck and then hit submit -- no real thought, no real effort, 10 or 15 minutes at the keyboard, that's all. Yeah, I know AND IT SHOWS!
Third, Egypt. Yeah, if you read up though, seems quite a lot of them weren't quite the ticket, especially the ruling dynasty who practised incest most fervently. A lot played with much less than a full deck!
Fourth, near death. Not a lot to say. Knowing one had no physical being (ie out of body) and that there was an ethereal ME entirely from the real, physical, ME lying in a hospital bed in another place, time, dimension, whatever. No fear, Him, Her or It assuring me I had no reason to be afraid -- contrariwise, feeling of joy. Knowing Someone, Something, was close but would not permit me sight of Him, Her, It. As I got closer, hearing, well I guess possibly more feeling, telepathic type thing, myself told it was not my time, He, She or It decided that, and that I was being sent back because I had other things I had to do, unfinished and future business. And, insofar as it is possible for medics to do so, because all three resulted from overdoses when my now ex-wife walked out with our kids, before release from hospital I had to have a compulsory pschiatric examination (or face 28 days comittal to a psych unit). Chose exam, three consultants, three hours, certified sane, depressed from loss of wife and kids. So, one of the few people who has a bit of paper actually saying I am sane!
Miss Victoria
Hi !
First, new to this -- only my second post.
Second -- do this poor bugger and vote for one or more of chapters 1 to 5 (6 is pending, sidetracked as regards 7 et seq) of what i know is my crappy story -- part true, part fiction (which is which is secret! only tell you giving 8 hours of oral to my then USA girlfriend is true, she came and came and kept coming until I was exhausted!). So far, I've hit the keyboard, hit spellcheck and then hit submit -- no real thought, no real effort, 10 or 15 minutes at the keyboard, that's all. Yeah, I know AND IT SHOWS!
Third, Egypt. Yeah, if you read up though, seems quite a lot of them weren't quite the ticket, especially the ruling dynasty who practised incest most fervently. A lot played with much less than a full deck!
Fourth, near death. Not a lot to say. Knowing one had no physical being (ie out of body) and that there was an ethereal ME entirely from the real, physical, ME lying in a hospital bed in another place, time, dimension, whatever. No fear, Him, Her or It assuring me I had no reason to be afraid -- contrariwise, feeling of joy. Knowing Someone, Something, was close but would not permit me sight of Him, Her, It. As I got closer, hearing, well I guess possibly more feeling, telepathic type thing, myself told it was not my time, He, She or It decided that, and that I was being sent back because I had other things I had to do, unfinished and future business. And, insofar as it is possible for medics to do so, because all three resulted from overdoses when my now ex-wife walked out with our kids, before release from hospital I had to have a compulsory pschiatric examination (or face 28 days comittal to a psych unit). Chose exam, three consultants, three hours, certified sane, depressed from loss of wife and kids. So, one of the few people who has a bit of paper actually saying I am sane!
MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
*chuckle* I wish I had one of those pieces of paper, but if I went for one, I doubt they would pass one to me.
Lets see... what was I going to say? Oh yes! I'll read and vote for your stories if you do the same for mine!
I've had OBE's as well, so I understand what that is like.
-V
Lets see... what was I going to say? Oh yes! I'll read and vote for your stories if you do the same for mine!
I've had OBE's as well, so I understand what that is like.
-V
Incest etc --- Miss Victoria
I'm sure they'd give you the piece of paper!
OK -- deal -- I'll read and vote if you read and vote, x my heart! Then you can tell me what crap I write!
What about your OBE's then (confusing to a Brit -- OBE = Order of the British Empire, an honour bestowed by The Queen as well as shorthand for out of body experience --- former is where the brain automatically goes! For a split second I thought I should be addressing you as Your Highness or Your OBE-ness!!
It's now 01:21 here, bedtime so I'll keep my reading promise tomorrow, OK? Honest! Who knows, may be lucky enough to dream of that 8 hour session...............and maybe not!
PS How do you get smilies to appear? THere you are, just proved I'm the idiot product of incest! Reading my crap will corroborate that likelihood!!
I'm sure they'd give you the piece of paper!
OK -- deal -- I'll read and vote if you read and vote, x my heart! Then you can tell me what crap I write!
What about your OBE's then (confusing to a Brit -- OBE = Order of the British Empire, an honour bestowed by The Queen as well as shorthand for out of body experience --- former is where the brain automatically goes! For a split second I thought I should be addressing you as Your Highness or Your OBE-ness!!
It's now 01:21 here, bedtime so I'll keep my reading promise tomorrow, OK? Honest! Who knows, may be lucky enough to dream of that 8 hour session...............and maybe not!
PS How do you get smilies to appear? THere you are, just proved I'm the idiot product of incest! Reading my crap will corroborate that likelihood!!
MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
*chuckle*
OBE= Out of Body Experience
Smileys... you go over to your left side while you are writing a message. Click on the little smiley guy that you want.
Not to bad for a girl that pass a sanity test... I am certain there is no way I would pass. I went to a psychiatrist when I was sixteen and he wanted to put me on all sorts of meds. I doubt I've changed much.
I'm a night shift nurse. Do I go to bed now and be refreshed for work, or read stories and vote? *ponder* Read stories and vote. You better read mine too
You can get to them by clicking on the link here in my signature. *yawn* Off to read, dear.
-V
OBE= Out of Body Experience
Smileys... you go over to your left side while you are writing a message. Click on the little smiley guy that you want.
Not to bad for a girl that pass a sanity test... I am certain there is no way I would pass. I went to a psychiatrist when I was sixteen and he wanted to put me on all sorts of meds. I doubt I've changed much.
I'm a night shift nurse. Do I go to bed now and be refreshed for work, or read stories and vote? *ponder* Read stories and vote. You better read mine too
You can get to them by clicking on the link here in my signature. *yawn* Off to read, dear.
-V
MissVictoria
Falling Farther In
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,044
Read yours, voted Send you a private message.
Have a wonderful sleep, I think I'll do it too. Even though its only 7-something pm here. *yawn* Bedtime was noon. I've been naughty.
Send you a private message.Have a wonderful sleep, I think I'll do it too. Even though its only 7-something pm here. *yawn* Bedtime was noon. I've been naughty.
Young Knave
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2000
- Posts
- 823
Quite true. That's why genetic engineers will cross-fertilize individuals from the same "family" when they are trying to bring out a certain trait. I'm not sure if any of that's too relevant when talking about the incest question, since offspring need not be involved.
If incest were to somehow become accepted, it certainly would take away some of the forbidden thrill of it, which is a big part of its attraction for its many practitioners (as well as convenience, I believe). Perhaps keeping it in the "closet", where it is allowed to flourish without destabilizing our society too much, is for the best for all involved.
If incest were to somehow become accepted, it certainly would take away some of the forbidden thrill of it, which is a big part of its attraction for its many practitioners (as well as convenience, I believe). Perhaps keeping it in the "closet", where it is allowed to flourish without destabilizing our society too much, is for the best for all involved.
MissVictoria said:
Wyatt
Author
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2000
- Posts
- 459
I believe it will also compound any weaknesses.Not every trait will get stronger.look at the British royal family.Madness is compounded by their inbreeding.Three pairs of first cousins on the British throne in the last two centuries.Mind you,I have a first cousin who is HOT.She would tempt me. I wish.
knotty_dude
Virgin
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Posts
- 23
You know, I'm glad some people still acknowledge there's a Supreme Being out there. Funny, on Sept 11, what happened to all the supposed atheists? I'm not taking any shots at you DCL, but all of a sudden people turn to religion when disaster strikes!
Got a joke too:
God is having a talk with a scientist discussing various things:
Scientist: I believe no longer we have any need of you God, with our modern research and cloning technology, there's nothing we can't do that you have claimed to do.
God: Oh really? Let's have a contest. We'll each create a man, the old fashioned way. All right?
Scientist: You're on! (he reaches down to grab a handful of dirt)
God: Oh no you don't! You go make your own dirt!
Got a joke too:
God is having a talk with a scientist discussing various things:
Scientist: I believe no longer we have any need of you God, with our modern research and cloning technology, there's nothing we can't do that you have claimed to do.
God: Oh really? Let's have a contest. We'll each create a man, the old fashioned way. All right?
Scientist: You're on! (he reaches down to grab a handful of dirt)
God: Oh no you don't! You go make your own dirt!
Last edited:
G
Guest
Guest
incest caused by molested children
My sister Lisa was molested by a homeless man as a child. She molested me Jack, her younger brother and brought my older cousin Jane into it. Lisa hid her secret about being molested until she was an adult, I suspect that Jane was also molested. I recall between age five to age eight that I became sexually active with the girls and the girls were two/three years older than I. Now sex with my sister continued through our teens and until after Lisa's first marriage. We then were a couple and considered marriage. Her psychiatrist was aware of our relationship but did not oppose it. But we seperated. There appears to be a link between child abuse and incest in our case. I think anyone that molests a child should be sentenced to jail or death. Lisa and Jane never adjusted well and suffered a series of failed relationships and emotional problems.
My sister Lisa was molested by a homeless man as a child. She molested me Jack, her younger brother and brought my older cousin Jane into it. Lisa hid her secret about being molested until she was an adult, I suspect that Jane was also molested. I recall between age five to age eight that I became sexually active with the girls and the girls were two/three years older than I. Now sex with my sister continued through our teens and until after Lisa's first marriage. We then were a couple and considered marriage. Her psychiatrist was aware of our relationship but did not oppose it. But we seperated. There appears to be a link between child abuse and incest in our case. I think anyone that molests a child should be sentenced to jail or death. Lisa and Jane never adjusted well and suffered a series of failed relationships and emotional problems.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,682
The "supposed atheists" are still here. There was no change after Sept 11, though I'd bet a great many agnostics went to church for the first time in years.
Those with faith like to think that in times of peril atheists start calling out the name of "God". Doesn't happen. You'd might as well wait for us to start calling out the name of the Easter Bunny.
Elmo, I think it is.
Those with faith like to think that in times of peril atheists start calling out the name of "God". Doesn't happen. You'd might as well wait for us to start calling out the name of the Easter Bunny.
Elmo, I think it is.
