Indonesia executions

[ishtat]

Its Australias problem not America's. Besides, we do shit when the Muslims murder our people.

With this batch it was Australia's, Brazil's, France's, Nigeria's Philipines and Ghana's problem. In the next batch there is a Chinese (and they won't give a damn) and an American.

It took about three years for the Indonesians to kill 5 of the Bali bombers, judicially and extra judicially. Osama took a fair bit longer than that and there is still a bunch of guys in Guantanamo who will never be tried.

THe Indonesians are pretty good at getting terrorists to court but unfortunately their judges are fond of a bribe. Their police were pissed off at some of the light sentences given to some of the early Bali bombers to be caught. The last two to be arrested were shot dead "resisting arrest." Their domestic terrorists in Sumatra rarely get in front of a court, the Indonesian police and army don't seem keen on taking prisoners.

In the early 1960's former President Soekarno ordered the wiping out of the Indonesian Communist party. It got a bit out of hand and half a million Chinese Indonesians were killed in a couple of weeks. The logic was 'the communists are the chinese minority therefore all the chinese are communists.' Makes you wonder what might have happened if South Vietnam had a Soekarno.

 

[ChinaBandit]

If we threw in Tsarnaev would it improve diplomatic relations?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

With this batch it was Australia's, Brazil's, France's, Nigeria's Philipines and Ghana's problem. In the next batch there is a Chinese (and they won't give a damn) and an American.

It took about three years for the Indonesians to kill 5 of the Bali bombers, judicially and extra judicially. Osama took a fair bit longer than that and there is still a bunch of guys in Guantanamo who will never be tried.

THe Indonesians are pretty good at getting terrorists to court but unfortunately their judges are fond of a bribe. Their police were pissed off at some of the light sentences given to some of the early Bali bombers to be caught. The last two to be arrested were shot dead "resisting arrest." Their domestic terrorists in Sumatra rarely get in front of a court, the Indonesian police and army don't seem keen on taking prisoners.

In the early 1960's former President Soekarno ordered the wiping out of the Indonesian Communist party. It got a bit out of hand and half a million Chinese Indonesians were killed in a couple of weeks. The logic was 'the communists are the chinese minority therefore all the chinese are communists.' Makes you wonder what might have happened if South Vietnam had a Soekarno.

Germany had a Hitler. Russia had a Stalin.

 

[Balladeer08]

This thread seems to lack an opposing view.

Death penalty is seen as barbaric. Nothing seems to be wrong with smuggling heroin.

It is even alleged that they killed no one, so shouldn't be put to death.

Does anyone here believe that heroin kills no one?

I think a drawn-out death by the degrading downward spiral of heroin addiction is probably more barbaric than a nice, quick, clean execution.

If you caught them selling heroin to your children or loved ones, would you still see it in the same way?

This thread could be interpreted as "they were just selling heroin to wogs, who cares if they die of overdoses or have their lives ruined?"

The people executed were willing to distribute death randomly among a population of strangers. They were willing to kill people they had never met and were not even mad at. To me, that is worse than someone who kills their spouse in a fit of rage.

I find myself unable to mourn their passing.

 

[CNYCarol]

I'm absolutely PRO death penalty. The dead have never been found to be repeat offenders.

Want something "quick and painless"? Let's use the same method used in Russia.

 

[warrior queen]

This thread seems to lack an opposing view.

Death penalty is seen as barbaric. Nothing seems to be wrong with smuggling heroin.

It is even alleged that they killed no one, so shouldn't be put to death.

Does anyone here believe that heroin kills no one?

I think a drawn-out death by the degrading downward spiral of heroin addiction is probably more barbaric than a nice, quick, clean execution.

If you caught them selling heroin to your children or loved ones, would you still see it in the same way?

This thread could be interpreted as "they were just selling heroin to wogs, who cares if they die of overdoses or have their lives ruined?"

The people executed were willing to distribute death randomly among a population of strangers. They were willing to kill people they had never met and were not even mad at. To me, that is worse than someone who kills their spouse in a fit of rage.

I find myself unable to mourn their passing.

The aituation is a little more complicated than that....
The Australian Federal Police were tracking these guys aa they were planning to bring the drugs into Australia.
The AFP tipped off the Indo police, which led to them being searched in a country that has the death penalty.

There is a lot of blame being thrown at Australian authorities....

 

[Balladeer08]

The aituation is a little more complicated than that....
The Australian Federal Police were tracking these guys aa they were planning to bring the drugs into Australia.
The AFP tipped off the Indo police, which led to them being searched in a country that has the death penalty.

There is a lot of blame being thrown at Australian authorities....

Anyone care to calculate how much money this saved Australian taxpayers?

 

[Lord_Nibiru]

Anyone care to calculate how much money this saved Australian taxpayers?

well that's alright then

 

[lynn-23]

The aituation is a little more complicated than that....
The Australian Federal Police were tracking these guys aa they were planning to bring the drugs into Australia.
The AFP tipped off the Indo police, which led to them being searched in a country that has the death penalty.

There is a lot of blame being thrown at Australian authorities....

Why on Earth would there be any blame on Australian authorities?

 

[warrior queen]

Why on Earth would there be any blame on Australian authorities?

Because they could have either stopped them before they went overseas, or waited till they arrived back on Australian soil to arrest them. Then they would have gone to prison, and not been shot.
Instead, they notified Indonesian police and the gang was arreated in a country with the death penalty.

 

[warrior queen]

Anyone care to calculate how much money this saved Australian taxpayers?

Nothing.
In fact, it cost more.
The Foreign Affairs dept has been supporting/assisting the families for ten years, and a representative must now accompany the bodies all the way back to Oz.

Not to mention the damage that a heavy-handed backlash will have on trade.

It's a complete clusterfuck, start to finish.

 

[doowdniw]

Well if they're ignorant of the laws when going there that would, presumably, be a reasonable defence.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense, reasonable or otherwise. At least it isn't around here.

 

[warrior queen]

Barlow and Chambers were hanged in Malaysia, not Indonesia in 1986. Michael McCauliffe also hanged in Malaysia in 1993. Van Tuong Nguyen (also Australian) was hanged in Singapore in 2005.

More interestingly the Bali bombers who murdered 202 people in 2002 suffered varying fates. There were 16 involved, 3 were executed, two died in police shoot outs, one was handed over to the USA (which saved his life , he is still in Guantanamo) the rest received fairly light prison sentences, mainly from 5 to 20 years. They were all Indonesians.

You are correct....my bad.
I meant to say 'in Asian countries' and my brain/fingers wrote Indo instead.

Might be because that's pretty much been the only news for weeks

 

[TheMalevolence]

I agree with the UK's (my home country's) decision to abolish the death penalty, as other have said here, if you put a man to death and, a week later, realise that it was actually his evil twin (bad example), then whoever didn't check the case thoroughly enough is a manslaughterer. If you gave him life in prison, let him go, apologise and go home

As for the guy who said "People convicted of death are never repeat offenders", the same thing is true with people with life sentences. If you really think about it, how scared would you be if you found yourself at the wrong place at the wrong time, and end up on death row, begging for somebody to believe that you're innocent?

On a lighter note, the "repeat offender" argument reminds me of a joke I once heard:

A man is standing on the gallows with his executioner.
"Do you really think this is an efficient way to deal with criminals?" He asks,
"Well, sir, I've been doing this for forty years and I've never seen anybody up here twice!"

 

[Throbbinsum]

This thread seems to lack an opposing view.

Death penalty is seen as barbaric. Nothing seems to be wrong with smuggling heroin.

Nothing wrong with smuggling heroin? I don't think that anyone said that, neither has anyone said that they should not have been punished.

I understand that some people have a different view of the death penalty, but they do not present themselves or their argument well with such wild and inaccurate statements.

 

[ChinaBandit]

Ignorance of the law is not a defense, reasonable or otherwise. At least it isn't around here.

Agreed.

It's hard (for a non-Indonesian) to be ignorant of this particular law too. Most airlines mention it before landing. It's definitely stated on arrival immigration documentation.

Oh, you packed the heroin in the suitcase before departing your own country? Too fucking bad!

 

[duranman]

I'm absolutely PRO death penalty. The dead have never been found to be repeat offenders.

Want something "quick and painless"? Let's use the same method used in Russia.

That's right. And who cares if they're subsequently innocent?.....

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I can't preach to Americans about mass murder - you guys have that game tapped.

But what I can suggest is that there is a difference between Caesar's wife being above suspicion and a dirty little asshole playing fast and loose with sovereign power because he has an ambition to take over from that other murderer Harry Lee as the 'strong man of Asia.'

I clearly recall being told by my chartered accountants and auditers back in the Eighties, 'hey it's okay if you do a deal in Indonesia because we have a clever and accepted accounting entry for the bribes that you will have to pay because it is at the top five of the world's most corrupt places list.'

It's good of them to have told me seeing as I grew up in Asia and wasn't aware of that...(barf).

Harry Lee?

You assholes who want to talk about government-sanctioned execution need to be told this: (and this is a fact that can be established)

I went to junior school with a young girl who never spoke. She had no fingernails. They had been removed by torturers whilst she was in the same room where her father was being 'questioned.' He, subsequently had two chopsticks stuck in his ears and clapped together and he died in a horrible way.

But you fucking gutless bloody arseholes have never had the guts to question Mr bloody dead Harry Lee what they fuck he meant when he manages to say in the Wikipedia entry about what he did in the war years - that he was an interpeter for the Japanese.

Doing what, precisely?

There is NO SUCH THING AS A CHINESE PERSON WHO IS NOT A TRAITOR AND A LIAR AND A SWINE 'interpreting for the Japanese' after the Chunking Massacre. His entire Chinese ethnic community except for the criminals he paid off through the years knew what a swine he was. But he was lauded everywhere in the West which generally otherwise decries dictators. Why the difference here? Was he less brutal? What a laugh. Did he pay better bribes maybe.

The reason there ever was a Magna Carta was because strong and courageous English people pulled the Crown to the point where it had to admit that the overwhelming availability of unrestrained State force over people - or, THE people - was a means by which intimidation and political corruption occurred, and the LAW was then made to sort that out. But no - you dickheads who think that you know what moral right is for everyone else, and what other people should and shouldn't do, have, by your own stupidity allowed con-artists in government everywhere to step all over these primary rights.

No one is going to protect you when this whole thing caves in which it is doing in front of your eyes every day even as we write and read here.

You people who think it is okay for modern governments anywhere at anytime to execute people for any reason short of open declared (nation) State-State war, are a bunch of stupid assholes and you should be told it straight for what you are. There are undiagnosed psychotics and psychopaths in government, and if you think they are not above using threats of and actual lethal force to get their own self-interested ways, you are more idiotic and naiive than imaginable for a normal human being.

Criminal dictators like to use the phrase 'Rule of Law' when what they really mean is 'rule of Laws' that they make up as soon as they get the least chance in order to intimidate and suppress and make room for the multi-hundred billion dollar per year, for example, vaccination industry (oh no, this is PROVEN science but, honest; just trust us).

Besides which, heroin dealers and couriers ought to be stoned to death just like those who want to have gay marriages, because by god, these people are so so SO much more evil than honest, open, transparent, truthful, unquestionable governments everywhere, and THE LAW, THE LAW, THE LAW that they institute for you all, for your peace (we have none of that anywhere) for your prosperity (I'd like to see YOU in the 1%'rs), and above all, so that you can get a place at the table of heaven because you are so GOOD, never mind doing some water-wine miracles right here and now to prove a point. But you can't do that. you can just talk.

The difference between me and you talking though is if I talk I can bite.

As far as the Australian government is concerned, anytime, anywhere, if that mob of halfwits would like to discuss why ex-MI6 spy Alex Allen had his eyes bleed blood until he almost died, here in Australia I'd be happy to assist. But then, I'd also insist we discussed it openly in the media too so the cards could all fall just where they may.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Here are the rules.

You want to kill someone?

Or you want to let it happen?

Cop the consequences when the people who know start talking in public.

Meanwhile... Lets's all hear it for that Sri Lankan refugee, poor old Myron Suka-something. Of course, there never has been any arms sales from Israel to the criminal gangsters in the government of Sri Lanka while they butchered a hundred thousand Tamils, and the money was never paid through Singapore and Indonesia into Australian banks.

But if you want to know WHICH banks, their names and account-holders, please by all means keep going and see what comes from me next and see who has his/her head chopped off at the next elections!

 

[Balladeer08]

Here are the rules.

You want to kill someone?

Or you want to let it happen?

Cop the consequences when the people who know start talking in public.

Meanwhile... Lets's all hear it for that Sri Lankan refugee, poor old Myron Suka-something. Of course, there never has been any arms sales from Israel to the criminal gangsters in the government of Sri Lanka while they butchered a hundred thousand Tamils, and the money was never paid through Singapore and Indonesia into Australian banks.

But if you want to know WHICH banks, their names and account-holders, please by all means keep going and see what comes from me next and see who has his/her head chopped off at the next elections!

There's a country that chops heads off at elections?

That would probably get good tv ratings.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

There is - The United Kingdom. If anyone can explain why King James had his head cut off other than because of the political will of a criminal gang of thieves (now known as the Tories) who ended up stealing from the King's Mint because that's the only way they know how to 'make' money, let me know. Not to mention their innate tendency to so-called pedophilia and losing police records so as not to be brought to justice.

Shameless, money-grubbing liars and thieves with not a shred of credibility left anymore in spite of having stolen several publishing companies off of Elleston Trevor and Ian Hendry and half a dozen old publishing families and laying hold of the broad media for their own rapacious ends and Big Brother-style propaganda.

Anyone who doesn't realise now, in hindsight, that Princess Diana was most certainly murdered because of what she was about to blurt out about kiddie rape by high government officials is simply a clot. Kindergarten Teacher indeed! Had her eyes opened I'm sure.

And let me also say this very straight - I know personally and without question or doubt at all, that no one in the present Windsor Family has any truck with the kind of nonsense that has been going on and it is about time the CABAL was reformed to quietly knock off, on behalf of Her Majesty, several top spies and police and judges and members of the House of Lords - like their cousins the Stewarts should have done when James got his head struck off with an axe.

 

[ishtat]

There is - The United Kingdom. If anyone can explain why King James had his head cut off other than because of the political will of a criminal gang of thieves (now known as the Tories)

.

You posts have no credibility at all. They contain many crass errors of fact, but this one is a doozie: King James died in his bed of dysentry in 1625.

Charles 1st was executed in January 1649 by Cromwell's Puritans - most definitely not Tories. The Puritans in fact executed many Tories who supported the King, including at least one Anglican Archbishop - William Laud in 1645.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That's right. And who cares if they're subsequently innocent?.....

Innocence is a separate issue. You confuse car ownership with speeding. Something like 80% of all murders aren't WHODUNNITS. Yet 99% of all murderers wait decades for execution or for some idgit to release them for inane reasons.

 

[foxinsox]

Setting aside my views on the death penalty, I believe the way in the prisoners were executed -- including the lead-up -- was barbaric and emblematic of third world peasantry at its worst.

If it were me, I'd far rather be drugged and beheaded with a sharp sword, than have a target pinned on my chest, be cable-tied to a cross, and be shot.