Is Flamingoblue sexist? He wants to know.

[Weird Harold]

Flawed Perceptions

If I remember correctly, FlamingoBlue and I are both among the elders of this board (in chronological age), and that is going to affect our perceptions of many things.

I can't know his upbringing, or exactly how his mind works, so I'm going to address some of the flawed perceptions I've had over the years.

First, I should point out that in 21 years in the USAF, I was required to attend various "human relations" seminars. Basically classes on how to get along with other races and sexes. Classes that at their very root held the idea that "you can think whatever you want, but if you act on any improper thoughts, you'll get busted or jailed." A very strong incentive to learn the concepts they were trying to teach.

I thought for many years I was unprejudiced. Then I encountered a situation that just felt "wrong" to me despite by perception of myself as unprejudiced. I had to take a very long look at the way I felt before I understood that this hidden prejudice came from things I picked up in childhood without even realizing it.

I think my problem with prejudice is very close to Flamingoblue's problem with being sexist. He's dealing with a manefestation of childhood indoctrination of "a woman's place" and "a lady would never do such a thing" and other similar views on proper conduct.

It's not easy to recognize this type of conditioning and I applaud him for trying to get other's viewpoints.

FB and I both grew up in a world where the only proper place for a woman was in the kitchen, or maybe as a secretary. Most of the men of my generation exhibit the same unconcious sort of sexism that FB does, and unless they really work at digging out and destroying those attitudes, they don't even know they exist.

The best way to help FB to rid his posts of sexist remarks, is to point them out to him. NOT with anger and personal attacks, but with an explanation of why you feel a particualr comment was sexist. Without an explanation that even a fossilized old male chauvinist pig like me can understand, there's no hope for improvement.

 

[Laurel]

WH makes an interesting point, one that occurred to me while I read FB's post about the women in his family. I really haven't been following this whole LL/FB argument very well. I do dig LL immensely, and have had no trouble with FB. Is FB sexist? That depends on context, doesn't it? On a sex site such as this one, his views on women might seem stodgy (though I'm not sure they're any worse than the "yeah baby, show us your titties!" crowd). However, among his peers he's probably considered progressive, if not leftist - how many men his age or on the Net, much less spending time on sites such as this one? I don't know enough about him to know the true motivation of him having Cheyenne start this thread - at best, he's genuinely trying to figure out where he went wrong with LL and how he can come across better in the future. At worst, he's trying to find a way to "win" the argument.

None of that is as interesting to me as the generation gap aspect of this whole train wreck. In deciding whether or not FB is sexist, whose value system do we use? LL's? FB's? Can you apply contemporary morality to someone who's grown up in a different time, a different culture? Joseph Conrad was banned from many libraries because of his use of the word "nigger" - a ugly term for sure, but during his lifetime the word did not carry the baggage it did now. Can you dismiss "Lord Jim" and "Heart of Darkness", just because the author was a racist by today's standards? Or do you have to take into consideration the time in which he wrote? Or does none of this apply to FB because he's alive and aware in the year 2000 and thus "should know better"?

Fuck if I know.

 

[Bliss]

Hat Trick!

Anywho. No blood, no foul. (<-- Siren thought that one up. Pretty neat, no?)

Uhm, actually it's a well known Hockey term that probably preceded Siren by at least two generations.

*Sorry. I am contractually obligated to do that, as you know*

Perhaps you could retain her to sue your Troll alter ego Never the Never for defamation, though.

__________________________________________
NO HARM, NO FOUL! WHAT... I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

 

[FlamingoBlue]

I am truly blessed....

To have such kind people around like Cheyenne. She is a true soulmate because she put aside her individual feelings for me and tried to help by posting this thread. Do I accept the fact that I am sexist? No, I don't. Have I made sexist comments? Sure, I have and I do not hide from that fact. EVERBODY fucks up, now and then. Am I mean spirited or hurtful in my intent? NO, I am not and there's the real problem that I have learned how to solve. I now try to use smilie faces and the ever helpful salutation, "bless your heart".

Ther is a pretty good discussion here and it turned out to be much as I expected it would. The people that needed to be "right" about me are still right, if only in their minds, bless their hearts. The other opinions are just as right, even though they are different. And, Harold---right on, pal.

I have gotten the message. Thanks a lot.

Fondly,

blue

[Edited by FlamingoBlue on 09-24-2000 at 10:26 AM]

 

[Guest]

Re: I am truly blessed....

I now try to use smilie faces and the ever helpful salutation, "bless your heart"....I have gotten the message.

OK Blue, that's the sexist bit done. What about the trollist bit? ;-) You've been mean to us!

Bliss, what was that post about? Who have I defamed?

 

[FlamingoBlue]

Actually, I gotten to like trolls....

I have been talkin' to the bunch that fell into my trap and found out that they're pretty much like me and the other folks around here, just a lot shorter, bad spellers and much more mischeveous. So, I have disbanded my hunt and let the captive trolls loose.

One thing, though. Please, do not fuck with me or call me names. I am kind but I am not weak or powerless. Get it? I do have my limits.

blue

 

[Guest]

Never the Never: "Bliss, what was that post about? Who have I defamed?"

Why Never of course, the genderless soul demon of Lothos whose form is that of a midnight black three-eyed cat. Don't you people know anything? Haven't you read the stories on my hard drive?

I wouldn't worry though about being sued because Never can not read or write and, due to the fact that Cyrena's husband finally found out, has gone insane and is now terrorizing some poor villagers in the Balkans.

Damn, I better fix that. I forgot all about poor Never.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again.

 

[Guest]

You know, Pumpkin, I really do worry 'boutcha sometimes.

This is not one of them.

 

[Cheri]

Perhaps I have a bit different view of this board than others. I honestly don't give a fuck if Blue is sexist or not. If he is, it's his problem not mine and he will be the one that seems ignorant in real life which is much more important than here. Honestly people does it matter if Lasher's outspoken or Shila's annoying? Does it matter to us really? I want to be like and respected on this board as much as everyone else, but the question remains why should the opinions of posters here matter to us? I realize that Blue has asked for input, but after reading his post, I honestly doubt if anything said here really matters to him. And if that's the case, why say it?

 

[Guest]

Rocky had come, equiped with a gun.
To blow off the legs of his rival.

 

[Guest]

Nodanunca, Imanaunt.

 

[Guest]

Re: Actually, I gotten to like trolls....

One thing, though. Please, do not fuck with me or call me names. I am kind but I am not weak or powerless. Get it? I do have my limits.

blue

Well, this has been an interesting thread to read. And I've learned quite a few things.

It seems, Dear Blue, that you have riled up several folks on this BB. Why is that? Do you enjoy the attention?

The jury is still out trying to decide if you are really sincere in your seeming endeavers to to search out whether you are sexist. I have not seen any posts that indicate that, but I have seen some posts that indicate that you are perhaps a bit presumptious. A flaw of your trade, in my humble opinion. I have known and dated several attorneys, and sometimes I have found that to be a problem.

I do feel you were manipulative in getting Cheyenne to begin this thread. Of course that is what you do. Manipulating people is a part of your job. But I don't approve of your abusive behavior I have witnessed, then your excuses as if you did nothing wrong. How about a simple *I'm sorry, I didn't mean what I said to be presumtious, or I didn't mean what I said to sound such and such*?

We can be forgiving, but we don't appreciate indignation. We are all real flesh and blood people, just like Laurel said. You can't see us, but we are.

- Moon

 

[Guest]

Nodanunca, Imanaunt.

Sure, other people can converse in a foreign language but if I want to?..
Damn.
Well, poke my with a martyr shtick.

Beuno Imanaunt. Je suis un poisson rouge. (<-I'm a goldfish)

 

[Siren]

To answer your question...,