Is this a dirty story site or lecture/text book on the finer points of English lit

[uksnowy]

I have just had one of my IMHO better short stories rejected. AGAIN! as follows: -

Was there an underage (under 18 years old) sexual relationship in my story?

There many references to
" young mums, their infants, kids, babies, child, toddler and teenage mums" but no in any sexual relationships or is breast feeding a NO NO?

There is also a reference as a passing comment from one of the mums to the other to a news item "Dad fucking little boys"

1. Age of teens?
2. Please fix the punctuation of your dialogue. The convention is that you include periods, commas, exclamation points, or question marks inside the quotes. The essay "How to Make Characters Talk" in our Writer's Resources section has more information on the formatting of dialogue if you have further questions.

It is set as an observation in public of teenage MUMS feeding their babies.

1. Yes, there are teenage mums about, but not many who are under age, but I suppose I could edit and make the two main characters 18, but really really necessary???

In my art life, you paint what you see not what you think is there and let the viewer determine the scene. I would like to think that most people who read in her can manage that.

2. I have stated at the head of the text that my story is "Their chat is set in the local vernacular and street talk. "
That is UK vernacular and street talk, not US.
Hence the preponderance of punctuation marks, periods, commas, exclamation points, or question marks. Convention was thrown out in writing this

This post in the forum is also going to Laurel

 

[sr71plt]

It's going to Laurel in a PM, right, not an e-mail? Because the administrators here don't open e-mails. It's good that it's going to her, though. You do seem to be having a lot of trouble finding the edge of acceptability with her. It might start dawning on you that it's because of what you're writing rather than the policies here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Mate, seriously, GET AN EDITOR to fix your grammar and punctuation before submitting. It's not hard to write to an acceptable standard, regardless of your country of origin, but whatever you're doing, it doesn't cut it.

Also, Laurel's rules apply. In your case, I'd suggest you cut every reference to any character under eighteen, because this is the umpteenth post where you complain about being pulled up on this.

Literotica Rule Number One: no description of sexual activity with persons under 18.

The headline you quote is in direct contravention of that rule - don't you see that?

There's not much point PMing Laurel - she's the site editor, and I'd say you're well and truly on her radar now.

Write in acceptable English and write about adults. It really is that simple.

 

[Hypoxia]

Yes, OP is constantly dinged for underage stories.
No, this site isn't about literary rules, only Laurel's rules.
Explicit underage stories just won't fly here.

1. Yes, there are teenage mums about, but not many who are under age, but I suppose I could edit and make the two main characters 18, but really really necessary???

Yes, it's really necessary. Re-read the site guidelines.

2. I have stated at the head of the text that my story is "Their chat is set in the local vernacular and street talk. "
That is UK vernacular and street talk, not US.
Hence the preponderance of punctuation marks, periods, commas, exclamation points, or question marks.

Laurel will reject a story that doesn't meet her standards of orthography (spelling, grammar, punctuation). Her site; her standards. If you can't meet those standards, post elsewhere.

Do you notice that you don't get much sympathy here? Have you wondered why?

 

[SamScribble]

I don’t know for sure – I wasn’t there – but I suspect, from the name of this site, that the person or people who first thought of the idea for this site were thinking, first and foremost, ‘literate erotica’ or ‘erotic literature’.

If you write something that falls into one of these categories, and has characters who a) are over the age of 18, and b) don’t do anything with their dogs other than pat them and give them the occasional dog biscuit, I’m pretty sure you’ll have no trouble getting your work posted. If your writing does not meet these criteria, I gather there are other sites.

Good luck. I am given to believe that there is a readership for pretty much every stripe of what my mother would have called ‘dirty stories’.

 

[ChloeTzang]

And seriously, you've started yet another thread on the same issue again? Really, you know what the issue is. You know why you're being rejected. There's no point in complaining here. It's been explained countless times to you. Once is ignorance and can be excused. After that....?

Site policies are clear and while people may disagree, they are what they are and Laurel is the sole adjudicator. End of story.

 

[uksnowy]

OK thanks all, but don't you see what I am saying. There is no under age sexual activity.
I am doing my best to eradicate punctuation faults.

Electric Blue I am writing about adults, don't you get it?

Other pieces of mine are getting through OK and I'm using the same criteria

 

[ElectricBlue]

Electric Blue I am writing about adults, don't you get it?

Hence the site editor's questions about teenagers, right? And your own comments about teenage mothers. To solve your problem, just write about adults in their twenties, then there is no question of bad maths....

 

[Green_Knight]

To be honest, if you story's as muddled as your post above, it'll be pretty well unreadable anyway. Get yourself a good editor.

 

[OmnislashXX]

I personally (IMHO) don't view breastfeeding as a sexual activity but if Laurel sees it that way, then the story will be rejected. Again (IMHO) Shame on her if she feels that way about it but if that's her viewpoint then you'll just have to live with it. For the sake of all stories, you really shouldn't involve any character under 18 if you are going to talk about them being naked, exposing body parts or describing them at all in anything remotely sexual. It's just not going to be accepted.

As for the punctuation issue, that's something you'll encounter on most websites you submit to. Literature sights don't want to be seen as places where people can write any old thing and just dump it off, they need to remain professional. So as an author, you need to keep fixing the mistakes. If you need help, find an editor. There are plenty around.

Also: Rejection really isn't the end all be all. Don't take it as a personal insult. If the story gets rejected, then apply edits and resubmit.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Hence the site editor's questions about teenagers, right? And your own comments about teenage mothers. To solve your problem, just write about adults in their twenties, then there is no question of bad maths....

Or at the very least, be very specific that characters are 18. A lot of my stories have protagonists who are 18 year old to early 20's chinese girls. Where its questionable, I always work the age very specifically into the story very close to the start. Anywhere else, I wouldn't bother but when on LIT...... That said, I've never had a problem since my first story, where I got rejected, figured it out, corrected it and never made the same mistake again. It's easy.

 

[Handley_Page]

"Is this a dirty story site or lecture/text book on the finer points of English lit "

I think that the answer is BOTH.
Yes there are some fairly simple "dirty stories" (sometimes called the "strokers").

But vernacular or not, most authors do try to write in good English.
Apart from anything else, it generally makes sure that it's readable in the English world. If you're going to write a story in street gibberish, the number of readers understanding that argot is somewhat limited, I think (street-speak is Very Very area defined). So a more widely-accepted standard of English will get you more readers.

Snowy, you might be the last word in "new writing", but unless or until you manage to put it out in a form understood by a wide potential reader-base, you'll not, I fear, get far. If you're having trouble with your English, simply ask for some help; go seek help from your local library, maybe or read the Lit guidances available and learn it.
Good Luck mate.

 

[uksnowy]

Thanks HP and what a fine aircraft they made.

I have asked for an editor and will see what pops up.

I don't think many of mine are "strokers"

I am trying my best. I have also found a website Stories On-Line and put a couple on the there as a trial.

 

[Green_Knight]

"Is this a dirty story site or lecture/text book on the finer points of English lit "

I think that the answer is BOTH.
Yes there are some fairly simple "dirty stories" (sometimes called the "strokers").

But vernacular or not, most authors do try to write in good English.
Apart from anything else, it generally makes sure that it's readable in the English world. If you're going to write a story in street gibberish, the number of readers understanding that argot is somewhat limited, I think (street-speak is Very Very area defined). So a more widely-accepted standard of English will get you more readers.

Snowy, you might be the last word in "new writing", but unless or until you manage to put it out in a form understood by a wide potential reader-base, you'll not, I fear, get far. If you're having trouble with your English, simply ask for some help; go seek help from your local library, maybe or read the Lit guidances available and learn it.
Good Luck mate.

I shudder when I see the word 'vernacular'. Whatever the word's true meaning, it is generally used to mean 'stuff what comes out of people's mouths'. That's fine, but if you listen carefully to what people actually say, their words are often devoid of any meaningful content or even unintelligible. When people are speaking , we rely enormously on their body language and their facial expressions to add meaning to their words.

There was a senior British politician who was renowned for speaking gibberish. When you listened to him, your brain would - albeit with some difficulty - make sense of what he was saying but if you read his words they were just so much nonsense. Those who had to write the supposedly-verbatim record of proceedings in the UK Parliament had a terrible time. They had to record what he would have said if he'd said it properly, while keeping a flavour of the original, otherwise no-one would have understood it. If you ever get the chance to hear one of his speeches and then read the official record of it, you will see what a remarkable job they did.

And that, in essence, is what we have to do when writing down the everyday language of people's speech. And – unfortunately for many young people – correct punctuation matters.

You don't have to write in the language of Jane Austen or Charles Dickens but if you write in 'UK vernacular and street talk' as it comes out of people's mouths, very few people in the UK will understand you, let alone in the US. HP's advice just above is very sensible.

 

[Handley_Page]

I shudder when I see the word 'vernacular'. Whatever the word's true meaning, it is generally used to mean 'stuff what comes out of people's mouths'. That's fine, but if you listen carefully to what people actually say, their words are often devoid of any meaningful content or even unintelligible. When people are speaking , we rely enormously on their body language and their facial expressions to add meaning to their words.

'Vernacular' comes, according to my dictionary, from the Latin meaning 'native'.

But I am puzzled. I don't see a speaking actor on my radio, but the message is good and clear.
Whilst body language might be of help to an Interviewer or a Policeman, I doubt it's contribution in a phone call.

 

[uksnowy]

I am sorry Green Knight, I think you're way off course. I have written that story in the way the two teenage mums speak - a mixture of local and what is known as estuary English. I have also used their habit of missing the H from He, H from Her, TH from them, Yer for You + spellings like tole for told, bofe for both and on it goes.

 

[Green_Knight]

'Vernacular' comes, according to my dictionary, from the Latin meaning 'native'.

But I am puzzled. I don't see a speaking actor on my radio, but the message is good and clear.
Whilst body language might be of help to an Interviewer or a Policeman, I doubt it's contribution in a phone call.

Most professionals on the radio – actors, presenters, and even some politicians – learn to speak very precisely to make sure that what they say is abundantly clear. There are how-to-do-it courses which can teach you these skills if you're likely to have to 'appear' on radio very often. Scripting helps, of course.

Listen to the difference between a weather forecast on the TV, in which the presenter can add meaning by gestures, smiles, grimaces, etc and one on the radio, where the presenter must be both concise and precise. And listen to a TV weather forecast with your eyes shut and realise afterwards how little you've really learned.

And never, ever rely on anything you think someone said in a phone call. If I'm having an important business phone call with someone, I always ask them to confirm it in writing afterwards.

 

[Green_Knight]

I am sorry Green Knight, I think you're way off course. I have written that story in the way the two teenage mums speak - a mixture of local and what is known as estuary English. I have also used their habit of missing the H from He, H from Her, TH from them, Yer for You + spellings like tole for told, bofe for both and on it goes.

I think you've just answered your own original query.

Estuary English is used by perhaps 10 per cent of the UK population, many of whom come from Essex and can't read anything longer than a Twitter message anyway. The other 90 per cent of the UK population and 100 per cent of people in the rest of the world won't have a clue what you're talking about.

I remember another post on here a while back in which an author who used a similar colloquial style bemoaned getting a score of less than 2 and complained about the prejudice of readers.

 

[NicoleZ]

@uksnowy

You're not alone and I guess far from alone in having had a story rejected. Where I think you go wrong is that you regard Literotica and the stories published here as reflecting the real world in this universe. It is not.

Instead, you should think of it this way - Literotica is an alternate reality in an alternate universe where everyone develops exactly the same so that before you're 18 you are indeed a child, completely unaware of anything connected with biological reproduction to the point that even when you're eighty, you have no recollections whatsoever of ever having experienced, seen, heard or thought about anything with sexual connotations at all. Everyone's 18th Birthday is indeed a magical affair as we spring from our cocoon completely formed, somewhat experienced (magic endowment or activation of instinct?), raring to go and ready for incest, sodomy and what-have-you.

Another way to get around the 18+ rule is to make your characters significantly older even if the person you describe really is no more than fifteen or sixteen. If you place him (or her) in one of the final years of university, complete with academic curriculum and sports activities, but describe what in real life goes on with High School freshmen and sophomores, you are alright. I dare not point you to perfect examples or name the author who is the unquestioned master of this approach as it would indubitably cause WWIII. No doubt you will be able to guess who it is from these hints.

Best of luck!

 

[Green_Knight]

I am sorry Green Knight, I think you're way off course. I have written that story in the way the two teenage mums speak - a mixture of local and what is known as estuary English. I have also used their habit of missing the H from He, H from Her, TH from them, Yer for You + spellings like tole for told, bofe for both and on it goes.

Would you happily read the following if it was submitted to Lit? It's how people do speak in another part of the United Kingdom. I could write a story in broad East Anglian and I can guarantee you wouldn't understand a word I'd written.

The Laddies by the banks o' Nith
Wad trust his Grace^1 wi a', Jamie;
But he'll sair them, as he sair'd the King-
Turn tail and rin awa', Jamie.

Chorus.-Up and waur them a', Jamie,
Up and waur them a';
The Johnstones hae the guidin o't,
Ye turncoat Whigs, awa'!

The day he stude his country's friend,
Or gied her faes a claw, Jamie,
Or frae puir man a blessin wan,
That day the Duke ne'er saw, Jamie.
Up and waur them, &c.

But wha is he, his country's boast?
Like him there is na twa, Jamie;
There's no a callent tents the kye,
But kens o' Westerha', Jamie.
Up and waur them, &c.

To end the wark, here's Whistlebirk,
Lang may his whistle blaw, Jamie;
And Maxwell true, o' sterling blue;
And we'll be Johnstones a', Jamie.
Up and waur them, &c. ​

 

[NicoleZ]

I am sorry Green Knight, I think you're way off course. I have written that story in the way the two teenage mums speak - a mixture of local and what is known as estuary English. I have also used their habit of missing the H from He, H from Her, TH from them, Yer for You + spellings like tole for told, bofe for both and on it goes.

Then you are guilty of trying to be too artistic. You have to remember that most people here won't have a clue as to what your going on about which is why we should always strive to write in an English that is comprehensible to people not from our shores as well as those who live outside our own borough. What you're trying to do now is something that should be left for when you are a published, established and respected author with several (printed) books to your name.

Rædfæst þin willa aræred under rodores hrofe, eac þon on rumre foldan!

 

[sr71plt]

I personally (IMHO) don't view breastfeeding as a sexual activity .

I think it's either sexual activity or not depending on how it's used in context--and we haven't been given any context. If it is written to arouse the reader, as in how a character in the story is viewing it, it is sexual activity. Why is it there at all--to what purpose? If it's there to evoke sexual imaging, it's sexual activity.

 

[OmnislashXX]

I think it's either sexual activity or not depending on how it's used in context--and we haven't been given any context. If it is written to arouse the reader, as in how a character in the story is viewing it, it is sexual activity. Why is it there at all--to what purpose? If it's there to evoke sexual imaging, it's sexual activity.

Yah, I guess I can agree with that. If it's happening in a public place, then that's one thing, but if for instance there's a dude eyeing her tits while they're being sucked on by the baby, well, that's another.

 

[uksnowy]

You educated lot have lost me, I'm just trying to write a story. I haven't included an under age character for ages.

 

[Handley_Page]

I am sorry Green Knight, I think you're way off course. I have written that story in the way the two teenage mums speak - a mixture of local and what is known as estuary English. I have also used their habit of missing the H from He, H from Her, TH from them, Yer for You + spellings like tole for told, bofe for both and on it goes.

Snowy,
1] Teenage Mums are a reference best left unstated.
Two 25 year-olds remembering the early days - maybe, but two teenagers - NO.
We all know it happens (a 13 year-old welsh schoolgirl, for example) but it is NOT the sort of thing to be used on Lit stories. (OK, it's as much politics and advertising as anything else, but the fact remains it IS a rule and none shall break it.

2] Do you really want to pass on that ghastly twang ('dialect') called "Estuary".
Ye gods, it's bad enough listening to what sounds like the complete breakdown of English education, (Tony Blair : "Education, Education, Education. " Ha Ha !).
I'll admit that I probably would fail to write it, mostly because of how I was taught, I suspect; and my folks were keen on 'good English'.
I think your story will carry if you used the odd word or three (you remembered to put an apostrophe where the letter was missing - yes? And you've explained it so the USA reader may not have much of a problem with 'translation', yes?).
Imagine trying to read a story set in the Deep South of the USA, where English is, at best, impenetrable, without some sort of explanation.

I think you may have set yourself a rather daunting task. It might work for the script of an English play, for example, but for an 'International Readership' you'd need to supply a translation and not many 'foreign' readers would have the patience, I reckon.

But good luck anyway.