Is this offensive?
- Thread starter lilminx
- Start date
A different perspective
This kind of reminds me of an assignment I had to do in school, but it's a whole different situation. I had a class where we had to do some genealogy research and present it to the class. For one thing, I'm adopted, so I didn't want to do my family's genealogy because I didn't feel as if it were "true" for me. But, I tried to do it anyway and my parents didn't have much information to give. I put that presentation off I don't know how many times, going to the nurse's office sick, or missing school on my scheduled day. My teacher was completely insensitive to this and gave me a huge lecture on not participating in class, plus I got a really bad grade. I was so hurt and embarrassed that all the other kids had such a rich history and I had nothing.
But, anyway, I know it's comparing oranges and apples. I think your assignment sounds fair and I'm not sure why any parent should be offended. I wouldn't be offended if my son had to do that and I would do everything I could to help him so he wouldn't have to feel the way I did when I was young. (not to mention I know my biological family anyway, so this information is now available to us). I think as long as you're being sensitive to the individual kids' needs, you shouldn't have a problem -- but try to watch out for those kids who might be embarrassed like I was.
This kind of reminds me of an assignment I had to do in school, but it's a whole different situation. I had a class where we had to do some genealogy research and present it to the class. For one thing, I'm adopted, so I didn't want to do my family's genealogy because I didn't feel as if it were "true" for me. But, I tried to do it anyway and my parents didn't have much information to give. I put that presentation off I don't know how many times, going to the nurse's office sick, or missing school on my scheduled day. My teacher was completely insensitive to this and gave me a huge lecture on not participating in class, plus I got a really bad grade. I was so hurt and embarrassed that all the other kids had such a rich history and I had nothing.
But, anyway, I know it's comparing oranges and apples. I think your assignment sounds fair and I'm not sure why any parent should be offended. I wouldn't be offended if my son had to do that and I would do everything I could to help him so he wouldn't have to feel the way I did when I was young. (not to mention I know my biological family anyway, so this information is now available to us). I think as long as you're being sensitive to the individual kids' needs, you shouldn't have a problem -- but try to watch out for those kids who might be embarrassed like I was.
Willing and Unsure
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i had to do projects like that too.. the geneology one and the one described for our heritage (the country thing)... for the country one, the teacher decided that only one person could do each country, adn i missed that day of class so i didnt get to pick.. i ended up having to research some country i wasnt even from and had to present it to the class (it was so bad.. i'm a truly white girl.. irish-english.. and was presenting stuff bout mexico)... i was really uncomfortable doing that since i had no background from there and no personal experience to share..
but the one sentence, i dont see a problem with.. the parents may just be racist or extremely prejudiced (as mine are and were offended by my project).. and that creates the problem where they may not want them doing the project
but the one sentence, i dont see a problem with.. the parents may just be racist or extremely prejudiced (as mine are and were offended by my project).. and that creates the problem where they may not want them doing the project
april-wine
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Re: Re: Re: Not offensive.
hmmmmm got room in that classroom>>>>>>>>>
Some parents are just not happy unless they are complaining.....I didn't find the assignment offensive at all......See it's right here, lol,,,,,,hmmmmmm now where's that extra credit lol
lilminx said:
hmmmmm got room in that classroom>>>>>>>>>
Some parents are just not happy unless they are complaining.....I didn't find the assignment offensive at all......See it's right here, lol,,,,,,hmmmmmm now where's that extra credit lol
Fly_On_Wall
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LilMinx I would not find this offencive in the least, I actualy did a project like that in grade school and it got me more interested in where i actualy came from.
But i do agree with those parents that said their child had too much to write about. I know in my experiance i ended up doing more work then everryone in the class. some people said they were from Italy, or spain then wrote a little bit on that. Then there was me I had to write about England, France, Germany, Scotland, Ireland, I even have native blood in me so had to write about Canada as well.
So no i see nothing wrong with the project solong as the work is equil with all the classmates.
But i do agree with those parents that said their child had too much to write about. I know in my experiance i ended up doing more work then everryone in the class. some people said they were from Italy, or spain then wrote a little bit on that. Then there was me I had to write about England, France, Germany, Scotland, Ireland, I even have native blood in me so had to write about Canada as well.
So no i see nothing wrong with the project solong as the work is equil with all the classmates.
Gilly Bean
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I only read through half the posts that replied, but I feel pretty much the same. If my daughter came home with that, I would not be offended in the least. The people who are offended are more then likely ashamed of thier roots, if they don't feel thier child should tell anyone what they are.
I would send a letter home to the parents explaining how it wasn't ment to be offensive, but as a way to explore everyone's culture and history. Apoligize to anyone who found it offensive, and leave it at that. If they still wanna bitch about it, ignore them.
Ignorant people often have to bitch about something, and this is just what they choose for this week.
I would send a letter home to the parents explaining how it wasn't ment to be offensive, but as a way to explore everyone's culture and history. Apoligize to anyone who found it offensive, and leave it at that. If they still wanna bitch about it, ignore them.
Ignorant people often have to bitch about something, and this is just what they choose for this week.
Marxist said:
For a bit different perspective, take a look at these articles. What you?re describing in your opening sentence is more a belief and excuse that reality. People who allow themselves to be subdued or depressed by the events of the past deserve the suffering they bring upon themselves by adopting and perpetuating the "victim mentality". And history doesn't bear out their paranoia but it is easier to make excuses than it is to strive and succeed.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell.html
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell081301.asp
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams061301.asp
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/01/blackhistory.html
lilminx, while the assignment you gave I do not find in the least offensive, there are those who are waiting for any excuse to be offended and too many people are too willing to listen to their stupidity.
It is sad that people must look to their ancestry for a sense of self-esteem or self worth. A person?s worth is defined by what they achieve, not by their genetics or ancestral heritage. And I find it sad that too many people are crippled by that irrational belief.
The successes of my life are not the result of my mother?s ancestry, actions or achievements. Her teaching me to work for what I wanted and her encouragement to do so were certainly influences of a positive nature. But the motivation and initiative to follow through on her teaching and to pursue success was mine alone.
How many time have you seen families in which one child grows into an admirable and successful adult and another grows into a ne?er-do-well at best or criminal at worst? What in the ancestry brought about the vastly different results? Or was it merely the exercise of that individual?s freedom of choice?
IMNTBHO, there is far too much emphasis and attention is lent to ancestry, genetics and ethnicity when the true root of success is the individual's motivation, effort and persistence.
Last edited:
Marxist
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Hey Uncle Cracker,
I agree with you on almost everything you say until you forget that the problem isn't one of reality but perception. Black is a color and it doesn't change, like a Jew changing his name from Schwartz to Curtis or a Latino Estevez becomes an Anglo Sheen.
You can't hide from Black (and I never have tried to). Black to me is a color that my skin sometimes resembles. To the rest of the world it's who I am (interesting aside, "why do white guys always address me as 'man'? I don't call my Latin friends 'amigo' or say 'mira' at the beginning of each sentence). I'd love to live in a world where people judged me on the content of my character rather than the color of my skin but it just doesn't work that way. So I have to draw on the strength of my ancestors and family and see no problem in knowing one's origins.
I do believe that everyone should be judged as individuals and I hope the next time I walk down the street in the dead of night and you see me walking in front of your car that you do too.
But somehow, I doubt it. Lock your doors. Be safe. And get that question mark thing fixed.
I agree with you on almost everything you say until you forget that the problem isn't one of reality but perception. Black is a color and it doesn't change, like a Jew changing his name from Schwartz to Curtis or a Latino Estevez becomes an Anglo Sheen.
You can't hide from Black (and I never have tried to). Black to me is a color that my skin sometimes resembles. To the rest of the world it's who I am (interesting aside, "why do white guys always address me as 'man'? I don't call my Latin friends 'amigo' or say 'mira' at the beginning of each sentence). I'd love to live in a world where people judged me on the content of my character rather than the color of my skin but it just doesn't work that way. So I have to draw on the strength of my ancestors and family and see no problem in knowing one's origins.
I do believe that everyone should be judged as individuals and I hope the next time I walk down the street in the dead of night and you see me walking in front of your car that you do too.
But somehow, I doubt it. Lock your doors. Be safe. And get that question mark thing fixed.
lilminx
...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not offensive.
I hope so-lol.)
Just make sure you do well so I don't have to keep you after school!
Oh, and Fly, I understand what you're saying about the assignment being too long for some of the children, but I didn';t want them to write about the country or countries. I simply wanted them to list the countries (well, put it in a sentence. ex: My family is from England, Germany, and Ireland). If they felt that it was too much, they could have simply put "America" or just listed the country that makes up the majority of their ethnicity. (Did I just make sense?
I hope so-lol.)
Sure-we always have room for you, April-Wineapril-wine said:
hmmmmm got room in that classroom>>>>>>>>>
Some parents are just not happy unless they are complaining.....I didn't find the assignment offensive at all......See it's right here, lol,,,,,,hmmmmmm now where's that extra credit lol
Just make sure you do well so I don't have to keep you after school!
Oh, and Fly, I understand what you're saying about the assignment being too long for some of the children, but I didn';t want them to write about the country or countries. I simply wanted them to list the countries (well, put it in a sentence. ex: My family is from England, Germany, and Ireland). If they felt that it was too much, they could have simply put "America" or just listed the country that makes up the majority of their ethnicity. (Did I just make sense?
Fly_On_Wall
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Yep you made sence... well to me hehe
Yah i can understand that assignment then. one sentence and parents got mad LOL.
heheYah i can understand that assignment then. one sentence and parents got mad LOL.
XXplorher
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obvious
First of all: I applaud you!!
(Gee, a teacher trying to open some eyes and make children think……. Is there anything more worthy?)
Second – it’s irresponsible for any parentage to NOT recognize that.
Keep doing what you’re doin’. Period.
First of all: I applaud you!!
(Gee, a teacher trying to open some eyes and make children think……. Is there anything more worthy?)
Second – it’s irresponsible for any parentage to NOT recognize that.
Keep doing what you’re doin’. Period.
XXplorher
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I’m going to expand (see not sober thread)…..
My first grade teacher impacted me immensely. I had a HUGE crush on her, she knew that; I was a disturbance (clown), and she found a way to make that WORK to the other children’s advantage. This made me crush all the harder. But, the point is – she took the time to ‘look’ into me! And that made me aware, what I do, or show – matters. At this infancy, she didn’t DISCOURAGE me – she found a way to ENcourage. Get this – I still carry that.
Next:
I had a serious asshole of a teacher in High School (VERY different avenue) that taught history. He had a certain idea of how classrooms should be kept, that most of us didn’t agree with. He was anal. He also explained history in a way that I SWORE HE was there to see it. I never learned more in ANY other class. I walked into his classroom, according to his rules, everyday, and felt glad he was there to teach me.
He didn’t ‘teach’ me according to what *I* wanted. He taught me with a passion, and determinedness, and knowledge, of what HE knew. And *I* learned a SHITLOAD!!!!
Now, I’m STILL looking for tons of attention –so did 1st grade teach encourage that, and ruin me? No – she allowed me to see what drives me.
Minx, ‘you’ are what ‘we’ lack. Stick to your guns. YOU’re making a difference. Every single one of those lil munchkins…… don’t ‘tell’ them. ‘Enable’ them. Sounds like you’re doing that.
I think I have a crush on YOU now……..
My first grade teacher impacted me immensely. I had a HUGE crush on her, she knew that; I was a disturbance (clown), and she found a way to make that WORK to the other children’s advantage. This made me crush all the harder. But, the point is – she took the time to ‘look’ into me! And that made me aware, what I do, or show – matters. At this infancy, she didn’t DISCOURAGE me – she found a way to ENcourage. Get this – I still carry that.
Next:
I had a serious asshole of a teacher in High School (VERY different avenue) that taught history. He had a certain idea of how classrooms should be kept, that most of us didn’t agree with. He was anal. He also explained history in a way that I SWORE HE was there to see it. I never learned more in ANY other class. I walked into his classroom, according to his rules, everyday, and felt glad he was there to teach me.
He didn’t ‘teach’ me according to what *I* wanted. He taught me with a passion, and determinedness, and knowledge, of what HE knew. And *I* learned a SHITLOAD!!!!
Now, I’m STILL looking for tons of attention –so did 1st grade teach encourage that, and ruin me? No – she allowed me to see what drives me.
Minx, ‘you’ are what ‘we’ lack. Stick to your guns. YOU’re making a difference. Every single one of those lil munchkins…… don’t ‘tell’ them. ‘Enable’ them. Sounds like you’re doing that.
I think I have a crush on YOU now……..
Gilly Bean
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Ok, after reading a few more things on this board, namely Marxist, I have a bit more to say.
I think people in general should be open to school work. They were not being asked to tell us in depth how come they are here, and what thier great-grandparents did to earn a passage on a boat that sank 100 years ago. It is a simple assignment that I would look at as asking us about our heritage.
Now, on a completly different, yet preseant, topic, I am sick to death of hearing from people who have been "oppressed" by the so-called "white people" of America.
Was it me personally who looked at you and said, No, you can't sit there, you're the wrong color?
No.
Was it you personally who had to work the back 40 barefoot in the dead of night to make sure work was done?
No.
Have you been compensated for it?
In more ways then I can count.
Does it happen to just the "American Negros"?
No.
I am not a prejudiced person against race. I have some feelings that makes me have thoughts on certain groups of people, yes, but that is not racial, that is lifestyle of some certain idiots.
I was raised in a fairly small town, where race didn't matter. Yes, I was likely sheltered because of it. When I met my husband, I moved to his slightly larger town, which happens to sit on a reservation. Now, I had friends who were of indian decent, as recent as being full blooded themselves. They were no different then any one else I went to school with. Since moving up here, I have gotten a totally different look at the 'opressed' american indians. They hate the white community up here. They pick fights with white kids and black kids alike. They run in 'gangs' that terrorize the non-indian neighboorhoods. They rarely finish school up here. They have a dropout rate of almost 80% in this town at thier own tribal school. Alot of them are alcoholics. They hae a casino which gives them a minimum of 5k a month, per person, over the age of 18. An indian born in the Saginaw-Chippewa tribe any year past 1997 will have a minimum of 1.5 million dollars in a trust fund for them to have the day they turn 18. Hardly any hold a job. The adults are rude and inconsiderate to the rest of the population in this town. They are part of a tribe, and therefor not subject to city, or state laws. They have a tribal council which governs them. Since the entire town technically sits on the reservation, while they are in the area designated as Res property, they have only to deal with tribal laws.
Now, giving an example, a family of 3 adults and 2 kids will receive 15k a month, plus 10k in trust funds. They have a small house they are either renting, or buying cheaply. If at the start of the month, they don't have the money to pay rent, or house payment, the tribal council pays it for them. Same with utility bills, car payment, insuance, and groceries. They are not held to goverment taxes, or state taxes. At least 40% of them all claim to be broke at the beginning of the month. Incidently, they are all given checks on the first of the month. They have to make a claim by the 5th. The tribe never looks into it, just hands them more money. At Christmas, alot sign up for christmas outreach, which includes toys for tots, groceries for christmas dinner, books, towels, and some new and some used clothing for a family. The program in town does not ask for income, they rely on honesty.
Now, looking at what all they get, quite a few have no bills to speak of, because all they have to do is say they can't afford them, and they get paid. They each make 5k a month. That's 60k a year. Tax free. This is thier right by birth, which I don't think is wrong. I think it is a bit overdone, yes, but they earn it just the same.
Now, on top of all that, our US government sends them to college for free. They earn grants for being born indian, up to 33% indian. They get minority rating, so they can get into a slot in college before a white person can because of the skin color.
Do I think that's wrong? Before I would have answered no, but after witnessing first hand time after time when the indians in this town have spat on our cars, cursed at our kids, dropped out of school, thrown glass bottles on cement steps, smoked pot until they couldn't stand, drank until they couldn't see, and never once held a job, I feel very differently.
i have lived in an apartment virtually surrounded by people who were like the above. I used to work in a small corner market store right near the casino, and delt with them on 'payday'. I had one guy tell me off on a sunday morning (he was drunk as a skunk at 10am, and pissed cause I would not sell to him; MI law states no alcohol sales before noon on sunday, though I would not have sold to him as drunk as he was anyway). I have had about 400 of the indians come in and buy a pack of gum, or a bottle of pop, and throw down a $100, simply because they knew I wouldn't be able to break it for a .90 item. The people who lived around us would sit out on the front steps right outside our apartment and party all night long. They were usually a mix of ages 14 to 40. All doing drugs, drinking, playing obscenly loud music, reguardless of time, or the day of week. We called the cops more times then i can recall, but they would always somehow leave before they got there. Our suspiscion is they had a police scanner. My husband used to work off part of the rent by doing lawn maitnence. After each of these parties, he would be out at the crack of dawn sweeping up ciggerette butts, joints, broken bottles, crushed cans, and anything else they might have had a desire to use.
Basically, what I am saying, is that I for one am sick of hearing all the 'minority' groups talk about how the white community oppressed them, and how it's our fault they are as they are, which in some cases includes being uneducated.
I am sorry for what happened to your ANCESTORS. It didn't happen to you. It happened to them. I am sorry for what our ANCESTORS did to you. It was them, not us who did it.
But I am also sick to death of hearing it like it is told. Grow up, get over it. Flame if you wish, but that is my feelings on the matter. I know what I described was with indians, and only a small group. I hate the indians in this town for the most part, not in entirty, but the reason I hate them is because they think they are entitled to more then they already get. Many black people have that same attitude.
My stance? I didn't do jack shit to you, don't scream down my throat how oppressed you are. In this day and age, all it takes is to work to get what you want. If more of the people with that attitude would work for themselves, and work towards what they want, then they would likely be a bit less pissy at the world in general. I didn't force you into a goddamn ship to wallow in filth. My ancestors might have been involved, MIGHT, but I personally was not. Neither were you who claim it.
I think people in general should be open to school work. They were not being asked to tell us in depth how come they are here, and what thier great-grandparents did to earn a passage on a boat that sank 100 years ago. It is a simple assignment that I would look at as asking us about our heritage.
Now, on a completly different, yet preseant, topic, I am sick to death of hearing from people who have been "oppressed" by the so-called "white people" of America.
Was it me personally who looked at you and said, No, you can't sit there, you're the wrong color?
No.
Was it you personally who had to work the back 40 barefoot in the dead of night to make sure work was done?
No.
Have you been compensated for it?
In more ways then I can count.
Does it happen to just the "American Negros"?
No.
I am not a prejudiced person against race. I have some feelings that makes me have thoughts on certain groups of people, yes, but that is not racial, that is lifestyle of some certain idiots.
I was raised in a fairly small town, where race didn't matter. Yes, I was likely sheltered because of it. When I met my husband, I moved to his slightly larger town, which happens to sit on a reservation. Now, I had friends who were of indian decent, as recent as being full blooded themselves. They were no different then any one else I went to school with. Since moving up here, I have gotten a totally different look at the 'opressed' american indians. They hate the white community up here. They pick fights with white kids and black kids alike. They run in 'gangs' that terrorize the non-indian neighboorhoods. They rarely finish school up here. They have a dropout rate of almost 80% in this town at thier own tribal school. Alot of them are alcoholics. They hae a casino which gives them a minimum of 5k a month, per person, over the age of 18. An indian born in the Saginaw-Chippewa tribe any year past 1997 will have a minimum of 1.5 million dollars in a trust fund for them to have the day they turn 18. Hardly any hold a job. The adults are rude and inconsiderate to the rest of the population in this town. They are part of a tribe, and therefor not subject to city, or state laws. They have a tribal council which governs them. Since the entire town technically sits on the reservation, while they are in the area designated as Res property, they have only to deal with tribal laws.
Now, giving an example, a family of 3 adults and 2 kids will receive 15k a month, plus 10k in trust funds. They have a small house they are either renting, or buying cheaply. If at the start of the month, they don't have the money to pay rent, or house payment, the tribal council pays it for them. Same with utility bills, car payment, insuance, and groceries. They are not held to goverment taxes, or state taxes. At least 40% of them all claim to be broke at the beginning of the month. Incidently, they are all given checks on the first of the month. They have to make a claim by the 5th. The tribe never looks into it, just hands them more money. At Christmas, alot sign up for christmas outreach, which includes toys for tots, groceries for christmas dinner, books, towels, and some new and some used clothing for a family. The program in town does not ask for income, they rely on honesty.
Now, looking at what all they get, quite a few have no bills to speak of, because all they have to do is say they can't afford them, and they get paid. They each make 5k a month. That's 60k a year. Tax free. This is thier right by birth, which I don't think is wrong. I think it is a bit overdone, yes, but they earn it just the same.
Now, on top of all that, our US government sends them to college for free. They earn grants for being born indian, up to 33% indian. They get minority rating, so they can get into a slot in college before a white person can because of the skin color.
Do I think that's wrong? Before I would have answered no, but after witnessing first hand time after time when the indians in this town have spat on our cars, cursed at our kids, dropped out of school, thrown glass bottles on cement steps, smoked pot until they couldn't stand, drank until they couldn't see, and never once held a job, I feel very differently.
i have lived in an apartment virtually surrounded by people who were like the above. I used to work in a small corner market store right near the casino, and delt with them on 'payday'. I had one guy tell me off on a sunday morning (he was drunk as a skunk at 10am, and pissed cause I would not sell to him; MI law states no alcohol sales before noon on sunday, though I would not have sold to him as drunk as he was anyway). I have had about 400 of the indians come in and buy a pack of gum, or a bottle of pop, and throw down a $100, simply because they knew I wouldn't be able to break it for a .90 item. The people who lived around us would sit out on the front steps right outside our apartment and party all night long. They were usually a mix of ages 14 to 40. All doing drugs, drinking, playing obscenly loud music, reguardless of time, or the day of week. We called the cops more times then i can recall, but they would always somehow leave before they got there. Our suspiscion is they had a police scanner. My husband used to work off part of the rent by doing lawn maitnence. After each of these parties, he would be out at the crack of dawn sweeping up ciggerette butts, joints, broken bottles, crushed cans, and anything else they might have had a desire to use.
Basically, what I am saying, is that I for one am sick of hearing all the 'minority' groups talk about how the white community oppressed them, and how it's our fault they are as they are, which in some cases includes being uneducated.
I am sorry for what happened to your ANCESTORS. It didn't happen to you. It happened to them. I am sorry for what our ANCESTORS did to you. It was them, not us who did it.
But I am also sick to death of hearing it like it is told. Grow up, get over it. Flame if you wish, but that is my feelings on the matter. I know what I described was with indians, and only a small group. I hate the indians in this town for the most part, not in entirty, but the reason I hate them is because they think they are entitled to more then they already get. Many black people have that same attitude.
My stance? I didn't do jack shit to you, don't scream down my throat how oppressed you are. In this day and age, all it takes is to work to get what you want. If more of the people with that attitude would work for themselves, and work towards what they want, then they would likely be a bit less pissy at the world in general. I didn't force you into a goddamn ship to wallow in filth. My ancestors might have been involved, MIGHT, but I personally was not. Neither were you who claim it.
Marxist
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Hey Gilly calm down,
It would help if people actually read every word that I've written in this thread maybe twice.
I didn't ask for reparations or some kind of trust fund or compare myself or my people to the American Indian (although our blood has been comingled, namely the Seminole). What I did say is and what you and others have proven to a frightening degree that White people don't get it.
I, yes I, have benefitted by the subjugation of Indian lands, culture, and labor. Just as you, yes, you have benefitted from my people's treatment as 3/5 of a human. Before heavy industry America had the Negro. You paid him by keeping him alive and giving him shelter.
Sorry if White guilt hurts. All I ask for anyone is to treat me fairly and not judge me in any way negative based on the color of my skin. Not many people are prepared to do this even today.
Do I make good money? Yes. More than most? Probably. Does that mean that I'm treated the same as anyone else in America? Nope. Money doesn't mean fair treatment or justice. Just ask an upper class Jew circa 1935 Germany.
So crack open a book, one with the words "HISTORY, AMERICAN" printed on the front. Maybe you'll come to a better understanding of a group of people suffering a cultural schism that won't be solved by militant opposition, religion, or any "ism".
The only solution is equal treatment under the law (and in society as a whole) and most of all time. Time for America to heal and for minds to change. We're already on our way, so don't worry be happy, but it's just not over yet.
And Gilly, never use that tired "We didn't start the fire," shit on anyone. It's one of the lowest forms of racial dialogue or argument to be found and solves nothing but passes the buck. Unless you magically remove yourself from the human race, we're all culpable. Likewise, that makes us all laudable for all achievements and creation.
Later Tater
It would help if people actually read every word that I've written in this thread maybe twice.
I didn't ask for reparations or some kind of trust fund or compare myself or my people to the American Indian (although our blood has been comingled, namely the Seminole). What I did say is and what you and others have proven to a frightening degree that White people don't get it.
I, yes I, have benefitted by the subjugation of Indian lands, culture, and labor. Just as you, yes, you have benefitted from my people's treatment as 3/5 of a human. Before heavy industry America had the Negro. You paid him by keeping him alive and giving him shelter.
Sorry if White guilt hurts. All I ask for anyone is to treat me fairly and not judge me in any way negative based on the color of my skin. Not many people are prepared to do this even today.
Do I make good money? Yes. More than most? Probably. Does that mean that I'm treated the same as anyone else in America? Nope. Money doesn't mean fair treatment or justice. Just ask an upper class Jew circa 1935 Germany.
So crack open a book, one with the words "HISTORY, AMERICAN" printed on the front. Maybe you'll come to a better understanding of a group of people suffering a cultural schism that won't be solved by militant opposition, religion, or any "ism".
The only solution is equal treatment under the law (and in society as a whole) and most of all time. Time for America to heal and for minds to change. We're already on our way, so don't worry be happy, but it's just not over yet.
And Gilly, never use that tired "We didn't start the fire," shit on anyone. It's one of the lowest forms of racial dialogue or argument to be found and solves nothing but passes the buck. Unless you magically remove yourself from the human race, we're all culpable. Likewise, that makes us all laudable for all achievements and creation.
Later Tater
Kypartsman
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Being from the appilachian mountains of Ky. I am a Mongrel. Some of my family was here when the pilgrams landed, some came over to work the coal mines from ireland and Scotland. I can account for just about all Europian countries. I can also add Blackfoot and Cherokee indian as well.
What I am saying is where I grew up there was no prejudice because one person was as poor as the next. If you needed help you got help from friends and neighbors. Not the government. We shared all we had with each other in order to survive.
One mule was fed and cared for by 7 families, because he plowed all their gardens. Food animals were owned by all and shared by all, when the time came to butcher them everyone worked and everyone shared.
Your assignment was more than fair and all children need to know their roots in my oppinion. I said all this so you understand their are a lot of roots that make up some lives. Some parents need to understand these are things of value to a child it is nice to know where you really come.
I always figure the more branches on a tree the better the shade.
What I am saying is where I grew up there was no prejudice because one person was as poor as the next. If you needed help you got help from friends and neighbors. Not the government. We shared all we had with each other in order to survive.
One mule was fed and cared for by 7 families, because he plowed all their gardens. Food animals were owned by all and shared by all, when the time came to butcher them everyone worked and everyone shared.
Your assignment was more than fair and all children need to know their roots in my oppinion. I said all this so you understand their are a lot of roots that make up some lives. Some parents need to understand these are things of value to a child it is nice to know where you really come.
I always figure the more branches on a tree the better the shade.
Marxist
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Kentucky,
Although I get your point, how many people of another culture did you encounter and how did you get along with them?
People tend to get along rather well for long periods of time when the there are resources to share and a homogenized "island" of culture. Note the Japanese, Chinese, and republican Rome. They all had civil wars at some point, but compared with the cataclysm of invasion they had long term enduring peace based on the homogeny of culture.
Go to lower Appalachia (Alabama, Tenn,) now and you'll see a major culture clash with the influx of Mexicans seeking jobs.
Although I get your point, how many people of another culture did you encounter and how did you get along with them?
People tend to get along rather well for long periods of time when the there are resources to share and a homogenized "island" of culture. Note the Japanese, Chinese, and republican Rome. They all had civil wars at some point, but compared with the cataclysm of invasion they had long term enduring peace based on the homogeny of culture.
Go to lower Appalachia (Alabama, Tenn,) now and you'll see a major culture clash with the influx of Mexicans seeking jobs.
Kypartsman
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Marxist
Your point is well taken, the time I described in my first responce was a time from the past as I was growing up here. In my heart that is how I still see this place,but in my head I know those days are as gone as the family mules now replaced by individual garden tractors. My point was not to mislead, it was to show that many people of many cultures can and do survive together when the need for survival is upmost.
As a child i was thrown into a mix of adults and children who for the most part belonged to the community as well as all the other properties of the whole. There were no black and white kids there were no hispanic or oriental kids, there were just kids. You ate lunch at whoevers home you were at when lunch was served. You needed to be corrected, you were corrected by the parent you had offended,even capital punishment. <spanking>
I was looking back at what i see as an ideal environment. No drugs on the streets, because there were no streets. No pedophiles because all knew all, and you hurt a kid the wrath was quick and unforgiving. Hate or prejudice were not words anyone knew the meaning of.
Then I grew up and answered the call of my country as so many of us did. From that day to this the place has only remained the same in memory.
I learned Prejudice in the military as well as how to use a weapon. I learned people were not as good as their word. A hand shake was not a bond, it was a way to stab you in the back while your attention was other places. I learned as a <Hillbilly> I was seen as ignorant and of simple mind. That still exists to this day. Check my intro into this forum when reference was made to the movie "deliverence" as how this person seen the new member on these boards. I truely believe if Einstein had spoken with a Mountain accent we would now all be speaking German or Japanese because no one would have taken him serious.
Back to trying to answer your point. I don't have your ability to use the writen word, nor is my vocabulary any match for yours,so I beg your indulgence.
Yes I do understand the influx of new cultures into my old one, I see it daily. I only pray that as time goes by the children of today will overcome the teachings of their parents and learn to live together and not hate because of outward apperance or language. Myself I have began to learn enough spanish to deal with the hispanic population I have to deal with. I do this for two reasons. First: is with fellow merchants we found as a group they would come into our places of business and be able to communicate without our understanding and they were taking advantage of our trust. In my instance I no longer alow them on the yard alone or more than 2 at a time. They were stealing me blind because of my trust in humanity. Second: I find it no problem to make a fool of myself, I don't need help. So by understanding some of what they say I can hopefully keep that to a minimum.
Vietnamese are my personal prejudice. I spent 11 months of my youth killing them and them trying to kill me. Forgiveness comes hard when you have seen your friends die at the hands of those who talk and look like the people I am now forced to deal with. My answer to that is to over charge them for parts. I don't want their business nor do I want them in my world. So I charge them 15 to 20% more than anyone else. Am I proud of this? Yes I think I probably am, otherwise I wouldn't still be doing it after all these years. I will accept the wrath from that confession and will remain myself unchanged. I have no desire to change on that matter.
So the bottom line after all this is, the place I described earlier only exists now in an old mans memory,and I doubt seriously it will ever come back. What a Pity
Your point is well taken, the time I described in my first responce was a time from the past as I was growing up here. In my heart that is how I still see this place,but in my head I know those days are as gone as the family mules now replaced by individual garden tractors. My point was not to mislead, it was to show that many people of many cultures can and do survive together when the need for survival is upmost.
As a child i was thrown into a mix of adults and children who for the most part belonged to the community as well as all the other properties of the whole. There were no black and white kids there were no hispanic or oriental kids, there were just kids. You ate lunch at whoevers home you were at when lunch was served. You needed to be corrected, you were corrected by the parent you had offended,even capital punishment. <spanking>
I was looking back at what i see as an ideal environment. No drugs on the streets, because there were no streets. No pedophiles because all knew all, and you hurt a kid the wrath was quick and unforgiving. Hate or prejudice were not words anyone knew the meaning of.
Then I grew up and answered the call of my country as so many of us did. From that day to this the place has only remained the same in memory.
I learned Prejudice in the military as well as how to use a weapon. I learned people were not as good as their word. A hand shake was not a bond, it was a way to stab you in the back while your attention was other places. I learned as a <Hillbilly> I was seen as ignorant and of simple mind. That still exists to this day. Check my intro into this forum when reference was made to the movie "deliverence" as how this person seen the new member on these boards. I truely believe if Einstein had spoken with a Mountain accent we would now all be speaking German or Japanese because no one would have taken him serious.
Back to trying to answer your point. I don't have your ability to use the writen word, nor is my vocabulary any match for yours,so I beg your indulgence.
Yes I do understand the influx of new cultures into my old one, I see it daily. I only pray that as time goes by the children of today will overcome the teachings of their parents and learn to live together and not hate because of outward apperance or language. Myself I have began to learn enough spanish to deal with the hispanic population I have to deal with. I do this for two reasons. First: is with fellow merchants we found as a group they would come into our places of business and be able to communicate without our understanding and they were taking advantage of our trust. In my instance I no longer alow them on the yard alone or more than 2 at a time. They were stealing me blind because of my trust in humanity. Second: I find it no problem to make a fool of myself, I don't need help. So by understanding some of what they say I can hopefully keep that to a minimum.
Vietnamese are my personal prejudice. I spent 11 months of my youth killing them and them trying to kill me. Forgiveness comes hard when you have seen your friends die at the hands of those who talk and look like the people I am now forced to deal with. My answer to that is to over charge them for parts. I don't want their business nor do I want them in my world. So I charge them 15 to 20% more than anyone else. Am I proud of this? Yes I think I probably am, otherwise I wouldn't still be doing it after all these years. I will accept the wrath from that confession and will remain myself unchanged. I have no desire to change on that matter.
So the bottom line after all this is, the place I described earlier only exists now in an old mans memory,and I doubt seriously it will ever come back. What a Pity
M
miles
Guest
Unless you magically remove yourself from the human race, we're all culpable. Likewise, that makes us all laudable for all achievements and creation.
Wow.
Wow.
I see no problem in knowing one's origins. I also see nothing problematic in taking pride in the achievements of one's ancestors. For example, were I a descendant of Edison, Einstein or Shockley or someone like that, I would be proud of them and their achievements.
But their achievements are not the source of my worth as a man. That is derived totally from the results of my efforts and achievements. That an ancestor of mine was deemed great in some historical perspective does not by any stretch mean that I am deserving of the same aura of greatness.
I must make the effort to earn any mantle of greatness that I desire. This is the distinction I make. Not that knowing one?s ancestry is useless or bad, merely that it is no more than knowing history and that too much credence is lent to its attributing some intrinsic value by virtue of that knowledge. Such knowledge does not confer upon one any special gift or honor.
Likewise, had my ancestors been criminals, that does not mean that I am to be a criminal. That is the result of my choices and actions for which I am solely responsible.
We absolutely agree on this perception. Martin L. King, Jr. said that ever so eloquently in his efforts to end institutional racism in the south.
Unfortunately, there are and likely always will be the ignorant, the fearful, the insecure who in an effort to make themselves feel more efficacious must find someone to scapegoat in order to provide themselves some substitute for that sense of one?s worth most often termed self-esteem. Education is the solution to this problem but I fear there will always be that minority immune even to that.
As to walking in front of my car on a dark night, just wear light colored or reflective clothing and don't step out too close. The night vision and reflexes aren't what they were when I was young. I sure won't run anyone down and will avoid hitting someone if I can. Of course there are a few select people to whom that doesn't apply but they are a very small, select group!
And I still maintain that the greatest problem facing the American Negro community today is their choice of role models. Far too many look up to the Jesse Jackson's, Al Sharpton's and the like who are more than willing to tell them that the only hope of success they have is to blindly follow these thugs who are so condescending and in their own right oppressors of the human spirit of those who follow them.
Did Clarence Thomas follow these peoples' leadership? Or Thomas Sowell, or Walter Williams? Would George Washington Carver have admired and followed them? Had he done so, he would never have made the history books you can bet, at least not for the achievements he garnered.
But as long as they kowtow to these exploiters, their lot in life will not improve. For it's precisely their lack of success that perpetuates these self-anointed leaders position and accumulation of wealth. And have you noticed that Jesse's not sharing HIS wealth; it's the wealth of others he seeks to confiscate and share (after taking a suitable commission, of course)! Like all politicians and liberals, he's willing to do all these wonderful things with OPM!
But how likely is that to happen so long as the adults around them don't act any differently? Because it's from the adults who raise them that children learn what is right and normal for adult behavior.
This admission is particularly sad. That you consciously recognize the prejudice and its attendant behavior makes it all the more so that you continue the practice and claim pride in it.
What you are doing is punishing innocent people for the crimes/sins of others. That is primarily the forte of politicians rather than honest and honorable men.
Is this the lesson you wish to teach your children? Is this the type of honorable men you wish them to become?
I agree wholeheartedly.
XXplorher
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Gilly Bean said:
Boy howdy, did you ever! = :O
It’s hard to concentrate on the reading with all that stripping going on….
-the bottom line on the ‘racial’ issue, to me, is: Is there a point to carrying hatred, envy, or past injustice? From either side?
Makes little sense to me, eh.
GillyBean, I’d have to agree with your bottom line ‘stance’. There’s plenty of people with money, power, whatever floats your boat, from all races – as long as they’re willing to work for it. Put the hatred in your back pocket, eh. It doesn’t serve a purpose.
XXplorher
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Unclebill said:
UncleBill, once again I found myself nodding my head consistently through your ENTIRE post -
(Except for the children/adult thing. It’s ALSO the child’s responsibility to distinguish for themselves. THAT falls in line with the rest of your point, no? (Is it more difficult to do that when your adult example fails at it? Possibly. Or possibly far easier. Depends on the child, eh? A parents job is to enable education and ‘thinking’. However, a child can’t be soley dependant on that. There are plenty of other sources for them to find the mix that suits them.)
Amazing clarity, mister. It's recognized.
XXplorher's naughty scribbles, TheWetPen:
http://www.savorychicken.com/thewetpen/index.htm
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CelestialBody
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Marxist
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Celestial, you make good points.
I really don't know how many women voted or didn't vote during the early years after women gained the right to vote. But I doubt that if they reached the polling place that they were refused in large numbers after gaining the right.
In America, that's how it worked by and large for Blacks in the South. Unique "taxes" and "intelligence" tests stopped many, including my grandparents, from voting for many years during the early part of the century.
You can't compare the rights of women to those of color. Apples and oranges. Although I guess many have compard Dr. Ambedkar (sp?) with Martin Luther King in his work with the untouchables of India. That would be the better comparison. The untouchables still get the shaft socially, politically, and culturally even though they're suppossed to have been given equal rights.
Guy JD and the rest make their point ever more clear. They HATE Black leaders but want to believe the point of an African American teacher that they don't know or have never met. Here's a clue guys, ask a Black person, if you know one, if J. Jackson, Al Sharpton, Farrakhan etc. speak for them. You will get a universal no from 80%. So ask yourself, does that teacher's aide speak for me as well? I'll answer it for you: HELL FUCKING NO.
Black people don't all know each other, we don't have meeting to pick our "leaders", and we're not all the same.
CelestialBody said:
I really don't know how many women voted or didn't vote during the early years after women gained the right to vote. But I doubt that if they reached the polling place that they were refused in large numbers after gaining the right.
In America, that's how it worked by and large for Blacks in the South. Unique "taxes" and "intelligence" tests stopped many, including my grandparents, from voting for many years during the early part of the century.
You can't compare the rights of women to those of color. Apples and oranges. Although I guess many have compard Dr. Ambedkar (sp?) with Martin Luther King in his work with the untouchables of India. That would be the better comparison. The untouchables still get the shaft socially, politically, and culturally even though they're suppossed to have been given equal rights.
Guy JD and the rest make their point ever more clear. They HATE Black leaders but want to believe the point of an African American teacher that they don't know or have never met. Here's a clue guys, ask a Black person, if you know one, if J. Jackson, Al Sharpton, Farrakhan etc. speak for them. You will get a universal no from 80%. So ask yourself, does that teacher's aide speak for me as well? I'll answer it for you: HELL FUCKING NO.
Black people don't all know each other, we don't have meeting to pick our "leaders", and we're not all the same.
