It's a sad day....

[SnoopDog]

I don't admire us anymore either, dr. M.

In fact, I don't mind being the first American in this forum to admit what most of us are probably saying privately: stupidity played no small role yesterday. Karl Rove was counting on it. Just as Osama bin Laden was counting on Bush to behave stupidly after 9/11.

There were some smart people who voted for Bush/Cheney yesterday: the wealthy who benefit directly from his tax cuts, and major shareholders of companies that benitfit from corporate welfare and a reduced wage structure. For evangelical Christians, the choice was faith-based and no assumptions can be made about its intelligence.

Stupid? What else can you call reelecting a man whose every decision has been disastrous, self-serving or both; a man whose response to failure is to call it a success, or blame someone else. A man who, for God's sake, staged a full-scale invasion of the wrong country. This is smart?

"Congress saw the same evidence I did." Yes, you whining toady, because you didn't present any evidence unless it supported your agenda. That was either stupid, or a calculated manipulation of a post-9/11 Congress fearful of being labeled unpatriotic and given the Max Cleland treatment. Either way, it was criminally negligent.

What difference does it make that Kerry "didn't have a better plan." Without brain reduction surgery, he could not have come up with a worse one than "stay the course" no matter where the course might lead.

Jesus, people, a lab rat forced to learn a maze can change course to save its life.

A rat or a human being who proves that he's either incapable or unwilling to learn from new evidence and adapt his behavior accordingly is considered the opposite of smart.

There was no lack of evidence that Dick Cheney is a scheming powermonger and George W. Bush is his puppet. For the first time in history, more than one of a president's close advisors wrote books during his term in office, to warn us of what was going on inside. For once, there were cabinet meeting transcripts and e-mails and White House memos and multiple sources for anecdotal evidence.

At risk to themselves and their families, more than one lifelong Republican party loyalist published the truth. The Bush voter response has been a knee-jerk assumption that these people were motivated by money. Even that assumption is refuted by the evidence. As Paul O'Neill told his publisher, "I'm old and rich and they can't do a thing to me."

It's one thing to ignore Michael Moore because he represents the opposition. It's another to hide from evidence presented by people within your own party, out of laziness or stubbornness or fear of the truth. "Willful ignorance" is how Richard Clarke described Bush/Cheney's insistence that Saddam Hussein could be linked to 9/11. Yesterday marked another victory for willful igorance. The entire Bush presidency has been like a public relations campaign to promote the benefits of knowing as few facts as possible.

If you voted for these people the first time, it's understandable. Not all of us knew that Dick Cheney wanted a return to imperialism, and that he wanted to start in Iraq.

If you voted for them yesterday, after all the lies and screw-ups and stammered denials and arrogant posturing; and if you didn't do it for God or for personal financial gain, there's only one explanation.

You were stupid.

Live with it, as you've forced the rest of us to live with the consequences.

Thank God I'm not alone on this one. You deserve a for that.

Snoopy

 

[shereads]

Thank God I'm not alone on this one. You deserve a for that.

Snoopy

Thank you, beagle. I may need some more of those when they start throwing these:

 

[mtnman2003]

Majority vs Minority

Not surprised, several threads are replaying the election, some blatantly calling Bush supporters varying degrees of stupid, etc.

I would be interested in a scientific study that would evaluate the level of intelligence of the voters in the democratic party, and compare it to the republican party. I would bet millions that there is a large degree of educational level, income level, professional level, and more held by the republicans in evaluating such differences.

I have not seen much bashing or gloating by the republicans here. Plus, most probably do not visit the site. Too liberal!! And sex, discussed in print.

While voting is a key element of our society, it should be held in high regard the rights we have to decry the administration, its’ policies, and our ability to voice our concerns without fear of reprisal.

Seems that the majority of voters felt like the republican party and candidate would best represent their own personal and political beliefs.

We participated in the best methodology for the election of our governing body.

 

[shereads]

Re: Majority vs Minority

Not surprised, several threads are replaying the election, some blatantly calling Bush supporters varying degrees of stupid, etc.

I would be interested in a scientific study that would evaluate the level of intelligence of the voters in the democratic party, and compare it to the republican party. I would bet millions that there is a large degree of educational level, income level, professional level, and more held by the republicans in evaluating such differences.

I have not seen much bashing or gloating by the republicans here.

The smarter ones can't help being too worried to gloat.

I can partially answer your question about intelligence and education, etc., with a quote from your president's chief political advisor:

"When people are educated enough, they become Republicans. When they become too educated, they become Democrats."

Did you read Clarke or O'Niell or Wilson before you voted? No? That's too bad. You'd be the first Bush voter I've met who bothered to find out what was so frightening about this administration that other Republicans risked retaliation to warn us about it.

I guess they just vote on gut instinct, the way Bush plans invasions.

Edited to add: If someone published a "scientific study" there's no reason to believe people would read it.

 

[Guest]

"Hejits" is a word that springs to my mind today. Said with the utmost respect, of course.

Lou

P.S. Present company excluded.

 

[MagicFingers]

Thanks for the rant, SnoopDog!

You were right-on.
Thanks

 

[Somme]

Thank God I'm not alone on this one. You deserve a for that.

Snoopy

doesn't she just?

 

[shereads]

Ooh! More than one source of !

Hello, Somme. Would you please tell cantdog to get some sleep? He's submitting to pointless brain-torture in the "Mourning" thread. He deserves better. I need some sleep too. Thank you for the props and high-fives. You're looking well, btw.

 

[KarenAM]

But I fear the direction your nation is going. The messianic fervor that's always been a part of your culture is coming to the fore. The rest of us wonder about and fear where that's going to lead you.

We're going straight to hell, led by evangelical Christians.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm sure the champagne is out in Hell today.

Their plot to use good intentions to pave the road is working, again.

 

[KarenAM]

I'm still trying to process this catastrophe, but I think the thing that convinces me that it is a catastrophe is the growing consensus that so many people voted for Bush not because they felt he had done a good job, or that they felt he had good ideas, or that things were going well so they didn't want to change them. I could live with that, even if I disagreed with it; differences of opinion about policy are a natural and healthy part of any healthy democracy. I accepted the 1984 election results, even though I didn't like them, because of this.

No, the thing that makes this election a catastrophe for America is that so many people voted for Bush because they approved of his "moral" views and stands. We may call these voters stupid, but the really frightening thing is that they aren't. Rather, they have consciously chosen to make an apocalyptic, intolerant and violent morality the law of the land. They have consciously turned against all that America once stood for, against liberty and against justice, and against equality, and they aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

This is the real tragedy, and to be honest I didn't expect it. 51% of voting Americans voted for a dishonest, incompetent buffoon because they want to live in a country where hate and war are positive values and love is a thing to regulate and control. And it isn't just the presidency. It's the senate and the congress and it's the plethora of homophobic amendments.

The light of the world has gone out. This cannot be healed.

 

[rgraham666]

The light of the world has gone out. This cannot be healed.

The light never goes away completely Karen. Not as long as a single person dares to dream about a better world.

It can be healed. Unfortunately, like all forms of therapy, it's going to be a long and painful process.

 

[shereads]

The light never goes away completely Karen. Not as long as a single person dares to dream about a better world.

It can be healed. Unfortunately, like all forms of therapy, it's going to be a long and painful process.

Who wants to write the Blue States of America constitution? I have an idea for the flag, but it's only a rough draft. Since we'll be geographically shackled to Dubya's America, how about "I'M WITH STUPID" on a field of blue.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'm still trying to process this catastrophe, but I think the thing that convinces me that it is a catastrophe is the growing consensus that so many people voted for Bush not because they felt he had done a good job, or that they felt he had good ideas, or that things were going well so they didn't want to change them. I could live with that, even if I disagreed with it; differences of opinion about policy are a natural and healthy part of any healthy democracy. I accepted the 1984 election results, even though I didn't like them, because of this.

No, the thing that makes this election a catastrophe for America is that so many people voted for Bush because they approved of his "moral" views and stands. We may call these voters stupid, but the really frightening thing is that they aren't. Rather, they have consciously chosen to make an apocalyptic, intolerant and violent morality the law of the land. They have consciously turned against all that America once stood for, against liberty and against justice, and against equality, and they aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

This is the real tragedy, and to be honest I didn't expect it. 51% of voting Americans voted for a dishonest, incompetent buffoon because they want to live in a country where hate and war are positive values and love is a thing to regulate and control. And it isn't just the presidency. It's the senate and the congress and it's the plethora of homophobic amendments.

The light of the world has gone out. This cannot be healed.

(On Tuesday) People who hold strong, old-fashioned moral values, chose the man who respects those values. They did not, as a group, necessarily want him to legislate those values. Rather, they knew he wouldn't legislate their values out of existence.

The majority of these folks aren't monsters who enjoy the fact we go to war. They are simple, honest people from small-town USA and what liberals consider right and moral is a slap in their faces.

They hold, to greater or lesser degree, the same values their parents did. Hard work, honesty, god and country. They don't care if you are an atheist, but the will fight you tooth and nail when you try to remove religion from their public life. They don't care if you are a homosexual, as long as you are somewhere far away from their homes and children. They feel you should be ashamed of that, not flaunting it and trying to win rights you don't deserve, especially mocking the institution of marriage. They don't care if you don't own a gun, but by God you had better keep you hands off theirs. They think abortion is wrong, that it's nothing less than murder, and their belief is that pro-choice is a lie, since unborn children don't choose to die. They don't care if you are too lazy to get a job, but resent their taxes spiraling ever upward to support you.

Take a look at the Democratic party. Take a look at its platform. Apply that platform in Edwards, Mississippi or Ox Cart, Oklahoma or Deer Run, Louisiana, or Fence Post, Texas or any of a million small towns through the heartland of this country. You are basically telling them, in a nutshell, that they are backward ass country fucks, and all they have learned about right and wrong from their parents and their community is a lie.

I heard this back home, it's crude, but a very common sentiment.

"The only people who will vote for Kerry are niggers and queers"

It's not real eloquent. Not very refined, but like the masses who came out and voted Kerry down, it's direct and to the point. The democratic party offers nothing to your average person who doesn't live in a big city or fit into a definable minority group. Nothing.

Kerry didn't loose on Iraq. He didn't loose on the economy. He didn't loose on the war on terror. He lost, because Carl Rove and GWB's handlers managed to make the Democrat's social agenda the defining issue. Also because Kerry wasn't much of a candidate, lacking charisma, conviction, and a definite plan.

It comes down to this, Karen. To these people, GWB's frailties and ineptitude are very minor, in comparison to the wholesale changes the Democratic party would like to reek upon their world.

Liberals and Democrats can call them stupid, they did that a lot after 2000. They can vilify them as hicks, or socially backwards, or any of a thousand other epitaphs I have heard. To continue to do so is to stroke their egos while the building burns to the ground around them. The simple truth is, it's a minor miracle when the Democrats can carry a state that isn't in the northeast, old northwest or on the west coast. They have completely alienated middle America. And if they don't take an honest look at why, they may well be looking at 12 more years of the GOP in the White House instead of just the apocalyptic four they’re now getting.

-Colly

(In the interest of getting slammed less hard, I do not neccissarily hold the convictions I have enumerated here.)

This post has been edited to remove the 2nd person you, which could easily be read as accusatory. It was not intended to be and I deeply regret using it. thank you rumple and again, I'm very sorry Karen

 

[CrazyyAngel]

Wow ... now there is something I thought I'd never do, but I find myself actually agreeing with Colleen.

From what I've gathered over the last few days I've come to the same conclusion. As much as the rest of us doesnt understand it or doesnt want to understand it, but people didn't decide over Iraq or other issues in this election.

But understanding the outcome of the vote doesn't necessarily mean its a good outcome ...

CA

 

[Guest]

 

[KarenAM]

I disagree.

People who hold stong, old fashioned moral values, chose the man who respects those values. they do not, as a group, neccessarily want him to legislate those values, rather they know he won't legislate their values out of existance.

The majority of these folks aren't monsters who enjoy the fact we go to war. They are simple, honest people from smalltown USA and what liberals consider right and moral is a slap in their faces.

They hold, to greater or lesser degree, the same values their parents did. Hard work, honesty, god and country. They don't care if you are an atheist, but the will fight you tooth and nail when you try to remove religion from their pubblic life. They don't care if you are a homosexual, as long as you are somewhere far away from their homes and children. They feel you should be ashamed of that, not flaunting it and trying to win rights you don't deserve, especially mocking the institution of mariage. They don't care if you don't own a gun, but by God you had better keep you hands off theirs. They think abortion is wrong, that it's nothing less than murder, and their belief is that pro choice is a lie, since unborn children don't choose to die. They don't care if you are too lazy to get a job, but resent their taxes spiraling ever upward to support you.

Take a look at the Democratic party. Take a look at its platform. Apply that platform in Edwars, Mississippi or Ox Cart Oklahoma or Deer Run Louisianna, or Fence Post Texas or any of a million small towns through the heartland of this country. You are basically telling them, in a nutshell, that they are backward ass country fucks, and all they have learned about right and wrong from their parents and their community is a lie.

I heard this back home, it's crude, but a very common sentiment.

"The only people who will vote for Kerry are niggers and queers"

It's not real eloquent. Not very refined, but like the masses who came out and voted Kerry down, it's direct and to the point. The democratic party offers nothing to your average person who dosen't live in a big city or fit into a defineable minority group. Nothing.

Kerry didn't loose on Iraq. He didn't loose on the economy. He didn't loose on the war on terror. He lost, because Carl Rove and GWB's handlers managed to make the Democrat's social agenda the defining issue. Also because Kerry wasn't much of a Candidate, lacking Chrisma, conviction and a definte plan.

It comes down to this, Karen. GWB's frailties and ineptitude are very minor, in comparrisson to the whole sale changes the Democratic party would like to reek upon their world.

Liberals and Democrats can call them stupid, you did it a lot after 2000. You can villify them as hicks, or socially backewwards or any of a thousand other epitahs I have heard. To continue to do so is to stroke your egos while the building burns to the ground around you. The simple truth is, it's a minor miracle when you can carry a state that isn't in the northeast, old northwest or on the west coast. You have completely alienated middle america. And if you don't take an honest look at why you have alienated them, you might well be looking at 12 more years of the GOP in the white house instead of just the apocalyptic four you know you are getting.

-Colly

(In the interest of getting slammed less hard, I do not neccissarily hold the convictions I have enumerated here.)

You know I respect you to pieces, Colly, but you are dead wrong here. You are making the exact mistake you claim I am. You are buying into the political world of "them", as though everyone who voted for Kerry shared the same "liberal" agenda, even though you know that liberals are like conservatives, which is to say they are people and are therefore varied.

How did Kerry not respect the "values" you claim are "old fashioned" and "moral"? Has he cheated on his wife? Neglected his kids? Is he an atheist? A homosexual? A pedophile, perhaps? Come, now, I'm curious... just what does Kerry do that Bush does not that is so odious?

Secondly, cut the "they don't care what you do" shit. They do care if you're an atheist. Why do you think that there are so many efforts to ban the teaching of evolution and replace it with the literal biblical account of creation? Why do you think they talk about "bringing God back into American public life"? And why are they taking marriage out of the churches and synagogues and mosques and temples and making it an issue for the secular government to control? If they don't care what gays do so long as it is far away, why do they vote for the candidate who is trying to make it illegal for gays to get married anywhere in America? They have a bigger social legislation agenda than the "liberal" Democrats ever have, and they make no effort to hide it.

Finally, there's this:

Liberals and Democrats can call them stupid, you did it a lot after 2000. You can villify them as hicks, or socially backewwards or any of a thousand other epitahs I have heard. To continue to do so is to stroke your egos while the building burns to the ground around you.

I resent the hell out of this, Colly. Don't you dare tell me what I've said or what I believe. In fact I specifically said these people are not stupid. You know damn good and well that I'm a fiscal conservative and that more than once I've spoken favorably about small town values in America, including your very family. But the fact remains that a sizable portion of the votes for Bush came from people who have now said they buy into his "restore family values and faith" claim knowing that it involves social legislation that will spread his intolerance and the intolerance that you yourself mentioned all through the country in the biggest of big government this country has ever seen. That the Democrats have been frequently too stupid to see this does not mean I haven't, or that legislating morality has suddenly become okay in a country that used to pride itself on liberty for all. My post in no way defended the failings of the Democrats or for that matter of liberalism. If you want to critique those things, please feel free; I'll probably agree with you. But by essentially calling me an elite liberal snob, your post went so far beyond rude that I have to wonder what happened to the woman who claimed she wasn't going to rub salt into anyone's wounds, and who has up till now always been the epitome of politeness on these boards.

Well, Colly, here's my $7.4 trillion dollar wound (the current Federal debt) and my despair for my country. Rub away.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I wish Kerry had won. I'm a militant middle-of-the-roader and ahve voted for Republicans in the past. But to me, and this is personal, Bush is a loathsome piece of filth on the surface of this earth. While it's cold comfort, like Colly, I think I've got a good idea why we're stuck with him for four more years.

Back in 1972, the inmates took over the nut house that is the Democratic Party. That year, the McGovern reforms gave him the party's nomination, and turned the party sharply left. The head of the AFL-CIO political action committee was at the convention, watching the procedings, when a TV reporter asked what he thought about the changes. The long-time labor leader and Democratic party activist said, "I'm a Democrat of the party of work, sweat, and tears, not sex, dope, and queers."

Everytime I use that story to try and explain today's political realities to my kids, they cringe. I'm glad they are progressive, open-minded, and caring. But I do wish they had a better understanding of their fellow Americans.

Today, the Democratic party's PUBLIC IMAGE is of an organization more concerned with pushing a politically correct social agenda than it is with working for less trendy things such as: better jobs, a cleaner environment, and affordable health care including better services for the poor, elderly and disabled. As a result, Democratic candidates begin with a built-in disadvantage and the party continues to get pounded at the polls.

Rumple Foreskin

ps: For those who question Colly's assessment of middle America's attitude towards gays, consider this: on Tuesday night, a gay, hispanic woman defeated a white man in the race for sheriff of DALLAS, TEXAS.

 

[BlackSnake]

52% would probably resent being referred to as idiots and do think about their votes.

Personally, I think Bush's pending victory has more to do with a lack of faith in Kerry. He promised to run faster and jump higher than W, but didn't offer up specifics on how he was going to do that, so the public was left to guess what that would be.

...

Not disguarding everything else you said, but this is the idea that I had about Kerry.

To me his campaign needed to be more than he's not Bush. I'm still wondering who the Senator is. Came out against the war, but after facing the fact that some people see the war in Iraq and 9/11 as a collective action, he changed his tune.

Personally, I think he put on a huge snow storm.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm still trying to process this catastrophe, but I think the thing that convinces me that it is a catastrophe is the growing consensus that so many people voted for Bush not because they felt he had done a good job, or that they felt he had good ideas, or that things were going well so they didn't want to change them. I could live with that, even if I disagreed with it; differences of opinion about policy are a natural and healthy part of any healthy democracy. I accepted the 1984 election results, even though I didn't like them, because of this.

No, the thing that makes this election a catastrophe for America is that so many people voted for Bush because they approved of his "moral" views and stands. We may call these voters stupid, but the really frightening thing is that they aren't. Rather, they have consciously chosen to make an apocalyptic, intolerant and violent morality the law of the land. They have consciously turned against all that America once stood for, against liberty and against justice, and against equality, and they aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

This is the real tragedy, and to be honest I didn't expect it. 51% of voting Americans voted for a dishonest, incompetent buffoon because they want to live in a country where hate and war are positive values and love is a thing to regulate and control. And it isn't just the presidency. It's the senate and the congress and it's the plethora of homophobic amendments.

The light of the world has gone out. This cannot be healed.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Snoop: "Bush is also a religious fundamentalist".


Joe Wordsworth: "Which is not an inherantly bad thing."


NOW I remember what it was I had forgotten - to put Joe Schmoe on Ignore!


Seriously.

A very clever American that I know once said:

"The trouble with us Americans is that we think that we're the best there is. We say God bless America instead of God bless the entire world. There are so many of us that stay in one place our entire life, and never open our eyes. We just see our own back yard, and we grow narrow-minded. But we can never admit this, because we can't believe that we could ever be wrong. We brainwash our kids in school with fanatic patriotism, until they believe that America can never do anything wrong, because it's America."

The rest of the world is looking upon USA as an uncle with an alcohol-problem. We love you, but we're losing respect for you every day that we see you pass out in your own shit. And we're getting a little scared of what you might do, coz we know that you're capable of violence against anyone you don't like.

Some of you voted for someone else than Bush. Good for you. The rest of you, I fear, have been seduced by his speech-writers' pretty words of "saving the family", "protecting moral values", and "defend the American way of life".

Instead of sucking on the words save, protect, defend; how about analysing what the politicians behind them actually DO?

"Saving the family" - yet politicians are not doing one crap about helping women's centres; helping young, poor mothers with healthcare; forcing run-away dads to pay child support; or invest money in schools - I heard the latest was that the Bush regime wanted to "punish" schools where children didn't meet a certain standard by WITHDRAWING funds from these schools - yeah, let's take away their money, boss! That should get those lazy kids to learn!

"Protecting moral values" - like owning guns and prohibiting youngsters to learn about safe sex- hey, just tell those horny, hormone-ridden teenagers to JUST DON'T DO IT, that should be enough! And then make sure that anay teenage girl who gets knocked up can't have an abortion; then she'll have to drop out of school to become a housewife, EXCELLENT, that means there will be less competition for the boys in the work market!
And let's face it - it's much more important to protect the right to have a gun that kills people, than to care about the right to stick your penis into another guy's orifices, 'cause that's... what? Not as much splatter?

"Defend the American way of life" - WHICH PART of American life? The apple pie baking part? The rodeo riding part? The rollerskating, burger-eating, milkshake-slurping, chewinggum-chewing part? The hostile takeover part? The checking-for-guns-before-you-enter-school part? The sleeping-inside-a-cardboard-box-in-a-dirty-alley-because-you're-homeless part? The selling-dope-in-the-streets part? The let's-bomb-the-shit-outta-them part?

Americans. We KNOW some of you are intelligent, honest, goodhearted people. We feel sorry for you. Your bible-belt, redneck, fellow countrymen and -women are giving the rest of you a bad reputation. If I tell you that when saying "American", we immediately think of "Rikki Lake" and "Jerry Springer" - THEN do you understand what a bad reputation you're getting? We feel sorry for you, we really do.

We feel sorry for anyone who'll be the victim of another 4 years of Shrubbery Dictatorship.


SF - who loves some parts of USA, and cries in despair over the other parts.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You know I respect you to pieces, Colly, but you are dead wrong here. You are making the exact mistake you claim I am. You are buying into the political world of "them", as though everyone who voted for Kerry shared the same "liberal" agenda, even though you know that liberals are like conservatives, which is to say they are people and are therefore varied.

How did Kerry not respect the "values" you claim are "old fashioned" and "moral"? Has he cheated on his wife? Neglected his kids? Is he an atheist? A homosexual? A pedophile, perhaps? Come, now, I'm curious... just what does Kerry do that Bush does not that is so odious?

Secondly, cut the "they don't care what you do" shit. They do care if you're an atheist. Why do you think that there are so many efforts to ban the teaching of evolution and replace it with the literal biblical account of creation? Why do you think they talk about "bringing God back into American public life"? And why are they taking marriage out of the churches and synagogues and mosques and temples and making it an issue for the secular government to control? If they don't care what gays do so long as it is far away, why do they vote for the candidate who is trying to make it illegal for gays to get married anywhere in America? They have a bigger social legislation agenda than the "liberal" Democrats ever have, and they make no effort to hide it.

Finally, there's this:



I resent the hell out of this, Colly. Don't you dare tell me what I've said or what I believe. In fact I specifically said these people are not stupid. You know damn good and well that I'm a fiscal conservative and that more than once I've spoken favorably about small town values in America, including your very family. But the fact remains that a sizable portion of the votes for Bush came from people who have now said they buy into his "restore family values and faith" claim knowing that it involves social legislation that will spread his intolerance and the intolerance that you yourself mentioned all through the country in the biggest of big government this country has ever seen. That the Democrats have been frequently too stupid to see this does not mean I haven't, or that legislating morality has suddenly become okay in a country that used to pride itself on liberty for all. My post in no way defended the failings of the Democrats or for that matter of liberalism. If you want to critique those things, please feel free; I'll probably agree with you. But by essentially calling me an elite liberal snob, your post went so far beyond rude that I have to wonder what happened to the woman who claimed she wasn't going to rub salt into anyone's wounds, and who has up till now always been the epitome of politeness on these boards.

Well, Colly, here's my $7.4 trillion dollar wound (the current Federal debt) and my despair for my country. Rub away.

Why are you taking this personally? I didn't single out anyone to aim the comments at. I use you and your in reference to the Democratic party and to a lesser extent liberals, who by and large call that their party.

I'm not grinding an ax. And as for views I am speaking in generalities.

Take a look at the threads here on the after election effects. Count up how many times you see remarks that disparage the intellect of those who voted for Bush. I think I am well within bounds to asert that Democrats are already well into the blame game, painting their opponents in unflattering terms, rather than doing the introspection I feel is critical to them if they want to continue as a party and keep this country from being run by one party and one alone.

Look at the elctoral map from 2000, look at the map of 2004. Your party isn't carrying any state in the middle of the country. In that same period look at how many senate and house seats the GOP has gained in these states and governorships. These states aren't ecnonomic powerhouses. They are sending their sons and daughters to war. They are loosing their civil liberties. You still can't carry them.

My post simply addresses this reality.

I tend to read a good bit, sometimes perhaps more than is good for me. The denial has already started in the upper echelons of the DNC. Those who haven't stuck their heads in the sand are already donning the rose colored glasses and the prevading message is one of accusing the 51% who voted for Bush of being Dumb, backwards etc.

The outcome of this election did not surprise me. I could have painted you an electoral map that would have been just about exactly right months before the first vote was cast.

This election was more catastropic for the Democratic party than 2000. You lost the white house, with up to three Supreme court justices rumored to be retiring. You lost ground in the senate, giving the GOP a majority. You lost ground in the house, giving the Gop a larger majority.

If the observation that your party needs to reevaluate itself is painful, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone on a personal level with my post. I thought I was providing a view that many of you don't see. I will endeavour in the future to keep my views to myself.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

Who wants to write the Blue States of America constitution? I have an idea for the flag, but it's only a rough draft. Since we'll be geographically shackled to Dubya's America, how about "I'M WITH STUPID" on a field of blue.

Brilliant! PMSL!

 

[BlackSnake]

My true feelings:

My beloved country was attacked by terrorist. The land of the free and place of refuge for those trying to escape terronany was assaulted. Long standing landmarks were turned to ash along with so many of my fellow Americans.

Can you not see how high the stakes has become?

I want my leaders to sweep the world of all those who oppose my home and my people, without mercy.

- Falluja should be made into a golf course.
- All motor vehicle traffic that is not qualified should be haulted or destroyed in Iraq.


I think we should continue into other countries and iraticate any who show hate for my beloved country.

My government is for its people and by its people. The election results show the will of the people.

God bless America and send its foes to hell

 

[Guest]

...


I think we should continue into other countries and iraticate any who show hate for my beloved country.

...

And therein lies the problem.

Reverse your statement, Blacksnake. Does that not now give all those who America "hate" a ticket for them to bomb the hell out of it?

Think on for a while.

Lou