It's all over. She's too smart.

[ruminator]

I don't fear smart women, I revere them, and I think it would be too cool to have THK as first lady.

It's funny, maybe it's just because I haven't been listening to the 'right' channels, but the only places I've heard fear regarding THK is from people on the left contemplating how some people are going to react to her.

I say if anyone thinks of her that way they were never going to vote for Kerry in the first place. THK can only reinforce the opinions of the people who have all ready decided to vote for JFK, the indepenents who have not yet made up their mind I believe are the ones who won't look to the who's going to be first lady but scrutinize the candidates more, that's why their still undecided.

I feel that this election has us on the precipice anyhow, our destruction as a race may be inevitable but maybe we can stall things for a while by changing the current administration or maybe even turn things around a bit. If THK does happen to be a factor in Kerry not being elected and Bush is re-elected, we're doomed no matter what caused it. I don't think Kerry is the best person for the job of President, but I do think that he is the best alternative, I just don't know if enough of us see it that way. It's not that Americans are stupid, it's that we are human. Any people from any country put in the same situation as we are would result in a similar form of politics. If the country decides to vote Bush back in, I won't be giving up on America but humanity as a race.

I think you have some key points that help show the advantage of THK as First Lady.

One major drawback to Kerry is the lack of confidence in certain directions he might take. If a president's wife has an influence then I feel more secure that THK would influence Kerry to follow the paths that will benefit humanity in addition to doing the right things for the country.

I always picture Laura as a ".....yes dear,.........of course dear,...." type of influence.

THK will challenge Kerry to do the right things.

 

[Teenage Venus]

She ain't that smart - she married him.
http://www.justudare.com/haha.gif

 

[minsue]

I think more Americans will take issue with the fact that she wasn't born in the US than with her intelligence.

Either way, she's an outsider.

 

[oggbashan]

Winston Churchill had an American mother.

We forgave him.

Some of our politicians are fluent in other languages.

We let them talk.

Some of our politicians have brains (and/or intelligent partners).

It doesn't make any difference to our respect for them (somewhere below car salesmen and realtors).

Og

 

[ruminator]

I think more Americans will take issue with the fact that she wasn't born in the US than with her intelligence.

Either way, she's an outsider.

So is Arnold but that doesn't seem to be a big drawback.

This is where the core values of America come into play. We are all basically foreigners here. The strength of citizenship is valued higher by people like her.

She will help stir the true feelings of patriotism and not the store brand off the shelf.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Well to be honest, I think GWB would win. He's got the advisors. There are over 160 countries in the world, who would know them all. It's the policy that counts. Frankly, if Edwards was to replace Kerry as prez, he has no experience.

As I recall, we "elected" a president who had no foreign policy experience whatsoever, and who'd never even been outside the USA.

---dr.M.

 

[Teenage Venus]

As I recall, we "elected" a president who had no foreign policy experience whatsoever, and who'd never even been outside the USA.

Damn! I learn something every day. I always thought it was a Florida sheriff and his relatives did that. These threads are a wealth of information for one willing to learn.

 

[shereads]

It's not that I think all Americans are too backward to elect a man whose wife isn't Betty Crocker on the side of the cake box.

It's just that this is such a close election, and the two blocks of decided voters are such polar opposites on so many issues, that I hardly know what to think of the undecided voters who remain.

What are they waiting for?

1) A sign that GWB is intelligent, well-informed, willing to listen to his advisors when they disagree instead of firing them, and is able to enhance our credibility in the world so our allies won't laugh when we swear on the Bible that Grenada has nukes?

2) Kerry's sworn oath that he will never change his mind on any issue, no matter what new information may arise over the space of weeks or decades? An apology for protesting the Vietnam War? If he did decide, thirty years after the fact, that he shouldn't have protested, he'd be accused of "flip-flopping" on the morality of the Vietnam War.

But I digress. I meant to say that almost anything could sway a contest this tight. A sudden drop in the price of Unleaded a couple of weeks before the election is almost a given, and that will tilt things toward GWB. If Chelsea Clinton announces she's a lesbian and is pregnant with Al Gore's child, chalk up more points for GWB. If Cheney is caught in bed with one of the Bush twins, the meter will tip a bit in Kerry's direction. If Condi Rice is caught in bed with both of the Bush twins, GWB could either benefit from a parental sympathy vote or be tarred & feathered when he refuses to have Rice lynched in the White House Rose Garden.

It's a toss-up. Whatever it is that undecided voters are waiting for, it isn't necessarily going to be some dramatic revelation. It could come down to which First Couple they find most likeable. Which for most of us, means people we can identify with. Whether someone loves or loathes a candidate's wife shouldn't be the deciding factor in how that person votes, but let's face it: if people voted on The Issues the Republican and Democratic party web servers wouldn't be able to support the number of hits each day as we all studied the party platforms, and e-mailed the parties asking for clarification, or expressing our concerns.

That's too much trouble for most people. And people do judge a candidate on how much his family mirrors our ideal. When Hillary Clinton was booed when she tried to speak at the World Trade Center ceremony honoring firemen, was it because she wasn't a "real New Yorker," was anti-fireman, or anti-law-enforcement, or pro-terrorist? I don't think so. I think she was booed because because she's That Liberal Intellectual Bitch who broke with tradition by failing to hide her influence when her husband was in the White House.

People who've grown comfortable with the Silent-Gaze-of-Admiration model of First Lady are likely to think of Theresa Kerry as the antichrist of Presidential Wives: a foreign Hillary. Personally, I think Laura Bush acts like a whipped puppy and has turned back the clock to the 1950s. I find T. Kerry's candor refreshing. Above all, I like the fact that she hasn't perfected the pasted-on political smile.

 

[amicus]

Sat here staring at the screen until the screen saver came on, considering whether or not to join the fray....

American politics seems always to have been a circus staged for the lowest common denominator.

Trying not to be overtly partisan, although I am, without a doubt, I offer some curious observations...

I felt a twinge of pity for the Democrats as Ms. Kerry burst upon the scene. 'Shove it..." Is not real classy in the Jacqueline Bouviet style. I have trusted memory for the spelling of her maiden name, I am sure you will correct me if in error.

The opposition party has a penchant for painting Republican Presidents as playing with less than a full deck of cards. From the time of General Eisenhower. Dwight David was not the smartest kid on the block.

Richard Nixon, well, poor middle class guy with a smart wife and little else going for him. Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, Ronald Reagan and both Bush senior and jr, all described by the left as being intellectually challenged.

The poor Democrats, who seem to reflect the intelligensia of the left and the 'situational ethics' and loose morality, have been saddled with Adlai Stevenson, philandering Kennedy and Clinton. Poor old Hubert Humphrey, Dukakis, McGovern, Teddy Kennedy and Chappaquidick, good ole Lyndon Johnson who would be King.

I am sure I have left some out...all from memory...but here we have the young anti-war protester, Mr. Kerry who has a wealthy, cynical and mean spirited wife on display, who just happens to have a net worth of somewhere around a billion dollars.

One has to give grudging respect for the faithful who bounce from issue to issue cleaning up the droppings of those leaders of the Democrat Party who are surely not housebroken,

Poor baby faced John Edwards who has yet to stop smiling, is no doubt quivering in anticipation of being eviscerated by Vice President Cheney, who is definitely more than a 'pretty face'.

Them there is Hilary and Ralph Nader the rutubaga's in the stew, and Ronnie Reagan the son from hell.

Sighs...still a hundred days or so left to go...

amicus

 

[shereads]

Dare I read it? Can I resist?

What's the downside?













It's awfully tempting. But so were licorice ropes before I learned not to bite.

 

[ruminator]

Sat here staring at the screen until the screen saver came on, considering whether or not to join the fray....

American politics seems always to have been a circus staged for the lowest common denominator.

Trying not to be overtly partisan, although I am, without a doubt, I offer some curious observations...

I felt a twinge of pity for the Democrats as Ms. Kerry burst upon the scene. 'Shove it..." Is not real classy in the Jacqueline Bouviet style. I have trusted memory for the spelling of her maiden name, I am sure you will correct me if in error.

The opposition party has a penchant for painting Republican Presidents as playing with less than a full deck of cards. From the time of General Eisenhower. Dwight David was not the smartest kid on the block.

Richard Nixon, well, poor middle class guy with a smart wife and little else going for him. Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, Ronald Reagan and both Bush senior and jr, all described by the left as being intellectually challenged.

The poor Democrats, who seem to reflect the intelligensia of the left and the 'situational ethics' and loose morality, have been saddled with Adlai Stevenson, philandering Kennedy and Clinton. Poor old Hubert Humphrey, Dukakis, McGovern, Teddy Kennedy and Chappaquidick, good ole Lyndon Johnson who would be King.

I am sure I have left some out...all from memory...but here we have the young anti-war protester, Mr. Kerry who has a wealthy, cynical and mean spirited wife on display, who just happens to have a net worth of somewhere around a billion dollars.

One has to give grudging respect for the faithful who bounce from issue to issue cleaning up the droppings of those leaders of the Democrat Party who are surely not housebroken,

Poor baby faced John Edwards who has yet to stop smiling, is no doubt quivering in anticipation of being eviscerated by Vice President Cheney, who is definitely more than a 'pretty face'.

Them there is Hilary and Ralph Nader the rutubaga's in the stew, and Ronnie Reagan the son from hell.

Sighs...still a hundred days or so left to go...

amicus

Yeesh,......talk about cynical.
THK was anything but cynical when she burst on the scene, as you partisanly described it.

She portrayed hope and optimism for a future based on peaceful global participation. Calling on us to rely on the principles that make us pioneers.

I'm not sure exactly what you're after in a leader. I see inevitable failure the way you set the stage for comparison and description.

If one "lacks class" the other is unrefined.
If one is "displaying intelligence" the other is uninformed.

The reason leaders are imperfect is because they are chosen from the people they represent.

 

[shereads]

Hmm. I don't think I should read Amicus again until he stops ignoring proof that he's wrong and/or admits that fewer laws and more lawsuits are not the most logical solution to property disputes.

Am I being unreasonable? That's what happens when a woman tries to reason. It's hard for us! I for one woud forgive Amicus' unfair advantage, if only he stopped running away from proof that he's wrong. That's not fair, is it?



WARNING: Departure from thread topic, intended to prod Amicus to acknowledge his most recent lost argument before he embarks on a new one.



For those who haven't been following the Philosophy thread, where at one point Amicus almost slipped up and displayed some humanity and a sense of humor, here's what else happened: Cantdog mentioned the Robber Barons of the industrial age. Prompting Amicus to once again hurl down the gauntlet ("The Robber Barons were an invention of yellow journalism.") And once again, the gauntlet had a string attached to it so he could take it back if someone called his bluff.

I replied as I typically do to Amicus' assertion that the Robber Barons were just misunderstood philanthropists: with two of the kazilliondy-leven examples of the abuses of power that are the inevitable result when human greed finds itself with no laws in its way and a bounty of desperate poor people and an unsuspecting middle class to feed upon: the Johnstown, PA flood, and the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. In both cases, horrific tragedies occurred after years of ignored pleas and warnings and attempts to appeal to the better nature of men when there were no laws to protect the powerless.

Amicus, stung by repeated claims that he backs away from arguments when the evidence is stacked against him, parried with a whole string of unsubstantiated claims:

> The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire might have been started by labor unionizers! The hundreds of pages of trail records, police and fire department records and news articles notwithstanding.

> The women who died were being bullied by labor organizers to demand higher wages! (Actually, Amicus, the first demands of organized labor in the garment district were for bathroom breaks, a six-day work week and safer factory conditions. Women! What do they want?!)

>The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire was an isolated incident. Tens of thousands of immigrant laborers didn't die in that fire! Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. In fact, why throw out the bathwater? What's wrong it?

~ ~ ~

What about the Johnstown Flood, Amicus? Hundreds of babies were thrown out in tons of bathwater. Not a good analogy?





Returning thread to its topic, I leave for a late meeting at the office.

 

[Couture]

Oh fuck....

Why couldn't she have just gone up there and said, "I love my husband. I don't know a lot about politics, but I know my man...."

How fucking hard is that?

You think that Bush bitch is as dumb as she acts? No one can be that dumb. And see, she gets a free ride because of it.

Bush does a good job at it too.

"Look, I don't have much sense, but I do have ...um...spidey sense. And my spidey sense tells me there was weapons of mass destruction. There were links too. Saddam Hussane...Al Qehda. Seven degrees of separation...I will stay the course...World is safer....Now watch this drive...."


Now why do I get the feeling it's his putting that needs work....

 

[shereads]

Why couldn't she have just gone up there and said, "I love my husband. I don't know a lot about politics, but I know my man...."

Are you as thrilled as I am to realize that you want the candidate's wife to act dumb so she won't mess things up for us women by hurting his chances?

It makes my head hurt.

I didn't know whether to cheer for her refreshing candor and clarity of purpose, or mail her my voter registration card with an angry note.

Is this a great country, or what?

 

[ruminator]

Are you as thrilled as I am to realize that you want the candidate's wife to act dumb so she won't mess things up for us women by hurting his chances?

It makes my head hurt.

I didn't know whether to cheer for her refreshing candor and clarity of purpose, or mail her my voter registration card with an angry note.

Is this a great country, or what?

This has the potential to be a crossroads to look back on. It might differentiate the voting population into groups who think and groups who don't appreciate critical thinking.

Her compassion and expression will at least force the media to address some of the issues she raises.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I don't think her intelligence will turn anyone off. I watched her speech last night. While I was left with no doubts of her intelligence, I thought she was kind of boring to listen to. Very monotone. Kind of like Carl Sagan. You knew he was one of the smartest people around, but hearing him speak was the equivalent of two valium.

Sher: You asked what the undecideds are waiting for. A candidate that's worth a damn. I know and respect that you're very anti Bush, but even you've admitted that the Dems could've done better than Kerry. Kerry doesn't come across well to the average Joe. IMO the only reason Kerry and Bush are deadlocked is because Kerry is getting a lot of anti Bush votes. If Bush were simply doing an average job as president (which he isn't) it would be a landslide in Bush's favor.

Both candidates suck. There's a good number of people still waiting to see which candidate they think sucks just a little more than the other.

That's my humble opinion.

 

[ruminator]

Regardless of her level of intelligence, I was interested in her views of the US position and responsibility as a global leader. We've lost a tremendous amount of respect in the last 4 years in the world view and I think her influence could help regain some of that respect.

She seems attuned to the needs of humanity and I think that comes across. She may have been boring to some, but she was instructed to keep it low key to avoid controversy. That's about the extent of control her handlers have of her.

I think we're also missing the concept of "team" in the leadership sense. The President is less powerful and important than those he surrounds himself with. I wouldn't mind GWB as much if not for some of his cabinet choices. Maybe this is what the undecideds are waiting for.

 

[shereads]

Both candidates suck. There's a good number of people still waiting to see which candidate they think sucks just a little more than the other.

A couple of mushroom clouds over South Korea ought to do it.

"What do you mean, not that Korea?! Damn that CIA!"

 

[ruminator]

A couple of mushroom clouds over South Korea ought to do it.

"What do you mean, not that Korea?! Damn that CIA!"

They would claim it was intentional.


....a warning shot of sorts.

 

[shereads]

Applause line of the night:

"If George Bush had selected the court in 1954, Clarence Thomas would never have been admitted to law school."

~ Kendrick Meek

 

[ruminator]

Applause line of the night:

"If George Bush had selected the court in 1954, Clarence Thomas would never have been admitted to law school."

~ Kendrick Meek

The Reverand Al sure is fun to listen to.

 

[doormouse]

As the President is getting off the helicopter in front of the White House, he has a baby pig under each arm.

The Marine guard snaps to attention, salutes, and says: "Nice pigs, Sir."

The President replies: "These are not just pigs, son. These
are authentic Texas Razorback Hogs. I got one for Vice President Cheney, and I got one for Defense Secretary Rumsfeld."

The Marine again snaps to attention, salutes, and replies,
"Nice trade, Sir."

 

[Couture]

Sher: You asked what the undecideds are waiting for. A candidate that's worth a damn. I know and respect that you're very anti Bush, but even you've admitted that the Dems could've done better than Kerry. Kerry doesn't come across well to the average Joe. IMO the only reason Kerry and Bush are deadlocked is because Kerry is getting a lot of anti Bush votes. If Bush were simply doing an average job as president (which he isn't) it would be a landslide in Bush's favor.

Both candidates suck. There's a good number of people still waiting to see which candidate they think sucks just a little more than the other.

That's my humble opinion.

And between Bush and McCain, the republicans came up with Bush? WTF was that all about?

I was hoping for Dean myself. I had faith that he was intelligent enough and open-minded enough to look at the Iraq situation and make the right call on how to clean up that mess. It's rare that you find someone who would do what is best for the country and not their political career. It's a shame we passed that up.

And.....I was so looking forward to the debates, so I could watch Dean throw Bush to the mat and give him the People's Elbow! Roar!!!

 

[shereads]

The Reverand Al sure is fun to listen to.

I know. I apologize for getting him confused with Kendrick Meek, a Floridian whose name was on my monitor when I heard that sound bite from the other room.

Sharpton is slightly credibility-challenged ( ) but it is fun to watch someone who has nothing to lose.

He's going to have a reality show on TV, did you know that? Or maybe it's already on. It's called "I hate my job." He hosts it the way Trump hosted his, but the idea is not to get somebody into the executive suite but to rescue somebody from a hideous existence.

Cool.

 

[shereads]

Saved! Maybe!

Edwards' wife just called her husband "My rock and my love."

She scores Supportive Wife points without the smarmy Awestruck Gaze.

Better still, she announced that in two days, she and her husband will celebrate their anniversary "where we always do, at Wendys'."

GOOOOOOAAAAAL!!!!

Brilliant. It won't make McDonalds happy, but as Og recently pointed out, McDonalds is a symbol of globalization at its ugliest. Wendy's is the boomer fast-food joint. What more could America ask for?