It's Your Turn To Ban A Book!

[TheEarl]

Banning books is counterproductive. They just become more desirable.

I used to have a copy of Hitler's Mein Kampf translated into English and published in London in 1941. It was published on the principle of "Know your enemy". It also demonstrated that we were fighting for freedom of expression. Some of the Fascist/Nazi propaganda books were printed by The Left Book Club in the 1930s so that their members could understand what they were against.

The Communist Manifesto of 1848 has been in print in the UK continuously throughout the 20th and 21st century.

I have a video of Leni Reifenstahl's 'Triumph of the Will' - the record of a Nazi Nuremburg Rally. It is frightening how it persuades that the Nazi Party is desirable and worthwhile. That is despite the limitations of the technology available at the time. It makes me appreciate how ordinary German people could be deluded into thinking that Hitler was Germany's saviour. The Western democracies were decades behind Goering's use of mass persuasion.

Og

In the 1930s Hitler was Germany's saviour. If you weren't a Jew or black, then things hadn't been better for years. He's rescued the economy, broken the shameful Treaty of Versailles, brought back the German tradition of army service, made Germany, powerful both militarily and economically and completely modernised industry and transport in a country that had hyper-inflation, weak government, no industry and no economy less than 10 years ago, changing them from a poverty wracked state to a nation that was respected world-wide.

Say what you like about his sanity or his values, but Hitler was a very astute economist and manager and was a bloody good politician. Just a pity he was a right wing genocidal fuckhead really.

The Earl

 

[shereads]

The Western democracies were decades behind Goering's use of mass persuasion.

I'm afraid we've caught up.



Terror, evildoers, homeland...

 

[cantdog]

Laurie Mylroie's works

Judith Miller's works

They lie and they're icky.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Love Steinbeck. For everything except The Red Pony. I pulled that one off the school library shelf when I was going through a childhood phase where I only read books about animals. The "Lad" books by Albert Payson Terhune, Black Beauty, Lassie Come Home...Oh, look, here's one about a pony!

There should be a warning label on The Red Pony: Contains Animal Death Scene As Traumatic As 'Old Yeller' But You Won't See It Coming. You're Too Naive.

Ditto "The Yearling."

Why is it that so many classic novels labeled as "coming-of-age" stories involve the grisly death of a beloved pet?

The Grapes of Wrath is an overrated, sentimental piece of crap but the fucking Red Pony sent me into a spiral of sobbing that lasted days ( I think I was about twelve.)

Any story/book/movie involving animals will make me cry. It's a guarantee.

 

[Bridget69]

I don't think any books should be banned.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Any story/book/movie involving animals will make me cry. It's a guarantee.

Mine just made you say "icky."

 

[carsonshepherd]

Mine just made you say "icky."

The animals didn't die, save someone's life, win a big horserace, or get joyously reunited with their beloved humans.

 

[minsue]

The Grapes of Wrath is an overrated, sentimental piece of crap but the fucking Red Pony sent me into a spiral of sobbing that lasted days ( I think I was about twelve.)

Any story/book/movie involving animals will make me cry. It's a guarantee.

I was about twelve when I read the Red Pony, too. I never knew who to blame for the sobbing. Bastard.

 

[minsue]

The animals didn't die, save someone's life, win a big horserace, or get joyously reunited with their beloved humans.

What's your point?

 

[BlackShanglan]

The animals didn't die, save someone's life, win a big horserace, or get joyously reunited with their beloved humans.

You didn't finish it All of the above, damnit. (At least potentially.)

Shanglan

 

[carsonshepherd]

You didn't finish it All of the above, damnit. (At least potentially.)

Shanglan

I thought you were sending me a new edit? So I didn't finish the other one. Plus, I'm, uh... busy. Doing.... uh.... research. Yeah. Research.

 

[minsue]

You didn't finish it All of the above, damnit. (At least potentially.)

Shanglan

It's the potential that's so cruel. Well done, but cruel.

 

[SeaCat]

Here's an idea.
Censor all censors
Ban all banners
Burn all book burners

Nah, it would never wash. We would be having too much fun, and it would be illegal because we would be violating their rights.

Cat
The Marine Feline

(Hey, I could have a bumper sticker made with that on it.)

 

[Boota]

Actually, "The Origin of the Species" wins by quite a large number.

Shanglan

Are there wars fought over that book? I've never heard of one.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

Are there wars fought over that book? I've never heard of one.

uh-huh

 

[BlackShanglan]

It's the potential that's so cruel. Well done, but cruel.

the gosling.

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Are there wars fought over that book? I've never heard of one.

Trace Darwin forward through degeneration hysteria, racial science and eugenics. You'd find Nazi solutions to miscegenation on the other side. There's a very interesting book called "Degeneration," published I'm thinking 1895, that occupies a fascinating middle position. In many ways, Hitler's own insanity is less frightening than how prepared quite rational medical professionals were to endorse his ideas; they'd sold themselves on the idea of genetic inferiority and the potential poisoning of the gene pool. The logical solution was to prevernt the unfit from breeding, and there's evidence that even before Hitler's rise some German doctors were already advocating euthanising disabled babies.

The point, of course, not being that Darwin advocated genocide (although those comments on "abnormal reversions" and "savages" are certainly interesting), but that his work, like any other, is capable of ugly things at the hands of the deranged and power-hungry. Pragmatism has quite as much to answer for as religious fervor.

Shanglan

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Can I ban the Bible? Seems like turn about would be fair play....

Isn't it always?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Trace Darwin forward through degeneration hysteria, racial science and eugenics. You'd find Nazi solutions to miscegenation on the other side. There's a very interesting book called "Degeneration," published I'm thinking 1895, that occupies a fascinating middle position. In many ways, Hitler's own insanity is less frightening than how prepared quite rational medical professionals were to endorse his ideas; they'd sold themselves on the idea of genetic inferiority and the potential poisoning of the gene pool. The logical solution was to prevernt the unfit from breeding, and there's evidence that even before Hitler's rise some German doctors were already advocating euthanising disabled babies.

The point, of course, not being that Darwin advocated genocide (although those comments on "abnormal reversions" and "savages" are certainly interesting), but that his work, like any other, is capable of ugly things at the hands of the deranged and power-hungry. Pragmatism has quite as much to answer for as religious fervor.

Shanglan

Oh, I thought you meant how it spawned Social Darwinism (one of the greatest misreadings of a scientific study in all of history). The philosophy of "fuck empathy, if they can't compete against the big boys they deserve to die" which led to the "greedy" sect of cut-throat Capitalists believing that what they were doing was not just profitable and good business but somehow "right".

Hitler was a Social Darwinist who believed in Social Engineering.

 

[cantdog]

I have a video of Leni Reifenstahl's 'Triumph of the Will' - the record of a Nazi Nuremburg Rally. It is frightening how it persuades that the Nazi Party is desirable and worthwhile. That is despite the limitations of the technology available at the time. It makes me appreciate how ordinary German people could be deluded into thinking that Hitler was Germany's saviour. The Western democracies were decades behind Goering's use of mass persuasion.

Og

Riefenstahl was a genius. Everyone should see that film.

Milton... never mind.

 

[shereads]

Riefenstahl was a genius. Everyone should see that film.

Only if they also see Potemkin.

For balance, you know.

 

[cantdog]

Film festival at the local coffee house:
Potëmkin
Triumph of the Will


Would anyone come?

The people who did, though, might be worth having coffee with.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Battleship Potemkin?

(I think I fell asleep... )

 

[cantdog]

Treasure it, carson, dear. I can't sleep for the pain.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Oh, I thought you meant how it spawned Social Darwinism (one of the greatest misreadings of a scientific study in all of history). The philosophy of "fuck empathy, if they can't compete against the big boys they deserve to die" which led to the "greedy" sect of cut-throat Capitalists believing that what they were doing was not just profitable and good business but somehow "right".

Hitler was a Social Darwinist who believed in Social Engineering.

Yes, that too. Darwin, capitalism, and eugenics do the most horrifying little dance together.

Shanglan