Just so you know more Americans wanted Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton

[Conager]

Typical of you to assign a position to me so that you can then attack it , all the while ignoring the points made.

The fact remains that Fannie and Freddie had been working just fine (as had the CRA) until Wall Street figured out in the late 90's how to purchase and securitize mortgages without needing Fannie and Freddie as intermediaries, leading to a fundamental shift in the U.S. mortgage market. The repeal of Glass Steagall at the behest of Wall Street bankers started a shift in market away from Fannie and Freddie who backed roughly half of all home-loan originations in 2002 but just 30 percent in 2005 and 2006.

During the housing bubble, loan originators backed by Wall Street capital began operating far beyond the Fannie and Freddie system that had been working for decades passing off large quantities of high-risk subprime mortgages with terms and features that drastically increased the chance of default to investment firms who passed them along to investors, who were often unaware or misinformed of the underlying risks. It was the poor performance of the loans in these “private-label” securities—those not owned or guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie—that led to the financial meltdown.

As the housing bubble grew, fueled by predatory lending practices (such as hybrid adjustable-rate mortgages with balloon payments that required serial refinancing, or negative amortization) by firms such as Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns , Fannie and Freddie lost market share. Their problems started when they started to adopt some of the same practices as the private banks had in an attempt to reclaim that lost market share. They increased their leverage and began investing in certain subprime securities that credit agencies incorrectly deemed low-risk (at the request of wall Street again). The lowering of their underwriting standards was an effect of the Wall Street fueled bubble, not a cause. But all of this happened far too late in the game to have been the cause, just another effect of wall Streeet fucking over the housing market.

And by the way you are absolutely one hundred percent full of shit about Wall Street creating these loans all of these loans go through the Freddie and Fannie Mae system that's how they are packaged, that's how you're able to strip out various components to form derivatives. Without Fannie and Freddie packaging these loans this never would have happened. Only Fannie and Freddie have the trillions in capital to do this. There is no third way that these packages of loans were created.

Towards the end you had what was called desktop underwriting a loan originator would sit at his desktop on his computer put the borrowers particulars into the computer and it would give him a yes or no approval if it met Fannie guidlines. The only part that actual Banks played in this was complying with State banking requirements about being an actual bank the loan was simply shuffled through a bank over to Fannie and Freddie packaged with other loans and sold to investors.

There were no loans created that did not meet Freddie and Fannie's guidelines for various programs because you had to comply with one of those programs for your loan to fit into a package your loan didn't fit into a package couldn't be resold and no Bank was interested in holding loans. The money is made in originating loans not in servicing them.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You still have not addressed the most basic question: Why did the derivatives market fail?

It failed because the underlying loans were bad.

WHY were the loans bad?

They were bad because underwriting standards were lowered. The standards of 1977 were not the standard 2007. The people for whom these various products were invented would never have been able to buy a home under the earlier standards therefore they never would have defaulted. Your little anecdote which by the way pales by comparison the anecdotes I have which number in the thousands is about what is known as a three-to-one by down they start low so that you can qualify at the lower rate Fannie and Freddie said that was okay the theory being that you're going to have an increase in income to cover that in the future. And I'm not even getting into such things slow. And no doc loans because clearly you don't know anything about this but the bottom line is people who could not buy a home previously given approval to buy a home that they could not afford. Those standards are set by Fannie and Freddie those standards were not static; those standards were steadily lowered.

The next question is why were those standards lowered. I've already addressed that but the reason for that is because Banks were having difficulty meeting wihat Regulators required of them under the Community reinvestment Act. To incentivize the leadership of Fannie and Freddie to get on the ball and come up with Innovative products that we're going to somehow make people that couldn't afford homes able to afford homes they offered millions of dollars in bonuses so Fannie and Freddie kept lowering standards until they got their bonuses that's exactly why we have the crash and if you want to ignore the underlying cause of the crash go right ahead and keep repeating the bullshit that the Obama Administration has been peddling.

No.
In 1992 Congress established the “affordable housing goals,” which were numerical targets for the share of Fannie- and Freddie-backed lending that went to low-income and minority borrowers. For years conservative apologists have falsely pointed to these goals as a catalyst for the housing crisis, claiming they pushed Fannie and Freddie to take on unprecedented levels of risk, creating a bubble and a bust in the subprime housing market that sparked the financial catastrophe.
That’s simply not true as I've already outlined.

You're not arguing with the Obama administration or even with me, but with the results of several independent studies of the housing and market collapses and it's causes.

Those fingers point squarely at Wall Street bankers, mortgage and investment banks. Directly at the Republicans who championed (and still do) deregulation of the banking industry which allowed mortgage banking companies to merge with investment banks.

It's no coincidence that it took Wall Streeet less than a year after the repeal of key portions of Glass Steagall to drive the economy to the brink of disaster, again. Which was the entire reason that Glass Steagall was instituted after the 1929 crash.

 

[Disgustipated]

And by the way you are absolutely one hundred percent full of shit about Wall Street creating these loans all of these loans go through the Freddie and Fannie Mae system that's how their package that's how you're able to strip out various components to form derivatives. Without Fannie and Freddie packaging these loans this never would have happened. Only Fannie and Freddie have the share Capital to do this. There is no Third Way that these packages of loans were created

Are you sure about that?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Are you sure about that?

As usual, Query is as completely full of shit as he accuses me of being.

I'm trying to figure out if he's claiming to be a property appraiser, an investment banker, or underwriter this week.

 

[Conager]

No.
In 1992 Congress established the “affordable housing goals,” which were numerical targets for the share of Fannie- and Freddie-backed lending that went to low-income and minority borrowers. For years conservative apologists have falsely pointed to these goals as a catalyst for the housing crisis, claiming they pushed Fannie and Freddie to take on unprecedented levels of risk, creating a bubble and a bust in the subprime housing market that sparked the financial catastrophe.
That’s simply not true as I've already outlined.

You're not arguing with the Obama administration or even with me, but with the results of several independent studies of the housing and market collapses and it's causes.

Those fingers point squarely at Wall Street bankers, mortgage and investment banks. Directly at the Republicans who championed (and still do) deregulation of the banking industry which allowed mortgage banking companies to merge with investment banks.

It's no coincidence that it took Wall Streeet less than a year after the repeal of key portions of Glass Steagall to drive the economy to the brink of disaster, again. Which was the entire reason that Glass Steagall was instituted after the 1929 crash.

Just because events coincide, doesn't mean that one event causes the other.

You're trying to argue the nonsense above and completely ignoring that what also coincided was the lowering of underwriting standards. You still haven't addressed that why were they lowered and who lowered them?

If you want to argue that greedy investment bankers saw this opportunity and colluded with their various senators and representatives you know Chris Dodd and Barney Frank to get them to not stop these programs. Fine, I'll agree with that. But the environment that these things flourished happened only because of the massive amounts of money that Fannie and Freddie had.

 

[Conager]

"That's simply not true as I've already outlined" is sort of like an actual argument except it isn't.

Your entire argument is that Fannie and Freddie existed for a number of years while nothing went wrong so therefore they can't possibly be the nexis of the problem. As if Fannie and Freddie remained in stasis and nothing changed from 1977 to 1992 to 2007.

The one thing you are right about is that Banks and investment bankers love all these programs. Which is why nothing's been done about the underlying problem which was Fannie and Freddie underwriting retarded loans. To this day there still underwriting retarded loans the only reason why we don't have the same problem is they are underwriting retarded loans on homes that are post-crash priced.

The banking lobby, the Wall Street lobby, loan originators, Realors, home builders and investors and "community" activists all love that these programs exist.

They all squawked when standards were tightened up and they have since been relaxed again from what I understand. They are not quite as relaxed as when Franklin Raines was getting millions of dollars in years and bonuses but I am pretty sure they are once again retarded.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Not to mention the fact the only reason the Grade B paper loans even exists is because the Community Reinvestment Act without that there would have been no impetus to loan money to people that couldn't afford it nor would there been any government backstop for making what are obviously going to be bad loans. That's all Democrat and it's all about bumping up the percentage of minority home ownership whether or not they have made the choices necessary to be able to have appropriate debt to income ratios. Along with unqualified minorities which was the entire point of the program, obviously anyone unqualified, black white or brown took advantage of the program, as did loan officers, Realtors and Home Builders.

You don't read for context very well do you? Of course the banks loved it. The banks loved it if, and only if, the government was not only allowing them to do it but back stopping them. Which is what I said. If the banks had to do it on their own dime there's no way in hell they would have money on Grade B paper. It was a government program. What finally was the last straw was when you could buy a house with a conventional loan we're not even talking an FHA loan but an actual conventional loan that taditionally never was less than 5% down with no money down. In fact, the Selller could actually get back to you the amount of the down payment which used to be illegal. Ameridream and NEIMIAH loans burst the bubble.

This was not a banking industry program this was a government program.

It was the carrot and the stick. Ether you get with the program and develop loan programs, according to the ever decreasing standards set by Fannie and Freddie Mae for packaging those loans that they take off your hands, or answer to banking Regulators as to why it is you can't seem to find any minorities too loan to.

And here is the final icing on your cake.

When the two chambers could not agree on a joint version of the bill, the House voted on July 30 by a vote of 241–132 (R 58–131; D 182–1; Ind. 1–0) to instruct its negotiators to work for a law which ensured that consumers enjoyed medical and financial privacy as well as "robust competition and equal and non-discriminatory access to financial services and economic opportunities in their communities" (i.e., protection against exclusionary redlining).

The bill then moved to a joint conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. Democrats agreed to support the bill after Republicans agreed to strengthen provisions of the anti-redlining Community Reinvestment Act and address certain privacy concerns; the conference committee then finished its work by the beginning of November.[16][17] On November 4, the final bill resolving the differences was passed by the Senate 90–8, and by the House 362–57. The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

Note the vote margins of the House and Senate Democrats that FORCED liberalizing loan standards for obvious low-income borrowers. Because, you know, NOT lending to unqualified borrowers is, well, racist. Political correctness says it just HAS to be.

But in Unleaven Demi's world the mere names of the three Republican co-sponsors of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act means that President Clinton was hamstrung and helpless to sign a bill against his (presumably) better judgement, thus, absolving him and all Congressional Democrats of any responsibility for what happened later.

Of course, giving UD's reading of history even the most charitable slant leaves us with the inescapable fact that the alleged questionable deregulation policies of Republicans were LIBERALIZED AND BROADENED TO AN EVEN GREATER LEVEL OF RISK AT THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS' INSISTENCE in 1999.

It is this fact, among many others, that forces any objective observer to conclude the UD was, is and will likely continue to be a "disingenuous fuck."

 

[Conager]

It would be a lot easier to deconstruct your fatally flawed arguments (and lack thereof) if I was on an actual computer instead of sitting in a parking lot on a smartphone.

Talk about cart before the horse. You have this theory that there was this big Wall Street bubble and that caused underwriting guidelines to be lowered.

How do you have a bubble before you actually have all of the loans that went into the bubble? To give more loans you had to lower the standards otherwise you didn't have enough buyers that qualified to originate the volume of loans that caused a bubble.

The bubble was housing. Everyone, myself included wanted the housing bubble. It's only in hindsight that it's called a bubble. At the time it was simply called growth. More houses for more people means more work for everybody from carpenters to roofers to loan originators.

To fuel that housing bubble you had to make more buyers qualified. The only way to do that was lowering standards because people weren't going to suddenly stop buying big screen TVs and spending too much on clothing. This artificially created an instant glut of buyers. People that historically could never have owned a home, and as events have shown, should not have been convinced that they were in fact ready for home ownership.

If this whole thing had been about creating responsible homeowners then all that money we sunk into these programs could have gone into educating people on how to take care of their finances how to do a budget and what the expenses and benefits of homeownership might be for them. This wasn't around about any of that.

 

[Adre]

Sitting in a car in a parking lot arguing revisionist history with strangers on a porn forum. Time to reevaluate perhaps?

 

[Conager]

Sitting in a car in a parking lot arguing revisionist history with strangers on a porn forum. Time to reevaluate perhaps?

Revisionist history? Back that up with any critique that one word of what I just wrote is wrong or shut the fuck up.

 

[Adre]

Revisionist history? Back that up with any critique that one word of what I just wrote is wrong or shut the fuck up.

Talk about missing the point. Let me rephrase: you should consider getting a life.

 

[Conager]

Talk about missing the point. Let me rephrase: you should consider getting a life.

If I bump into a life that I think would be more fulfilling then the one I currently have, I will certainly pick it up.

I shed lives, like I shed IDs, so a change wouldn't bother me one way or the other.

Your advice is probably sound. I tend to live each particular life a little longer than I probably should.

 

[screwulibz]

Talk about missing the point. Let me rephrase: you should consider getting a life.

you should stfu about teh IN DEPENDS bull shit!

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Hey, were you on a Delta flight from Atlanta to Allentown recently?

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/310893/trump-supporter-delta-airplane-hillary-bitches/

"Traveling during*the holidays is always terrible, but it’s important to remember that it could always be worse. You could, for instance, be trapped on a plane with a tremendous asshole who loudly supports Donald Trump and calls women “Hillary bitches.”

That’s what happened to yoga instructor Emma Baum on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving on a Delta flight from Atlanta to*Allentown, Pennslyvania. In a video posted to Facebook, Baum recorded a deeply unpleasant-looking man standing in the aisle of the plane and screaming*about the president-elect.

“Donald Trump, baby!” he yells, looking for fellow supporters (read: assholes) to join him in singing Trump’s praises. “We got some Hillary bitches on here,” he continues.

“He’s your president. Every goddamn one of youse,” he says. “If you don’t like it, too bad.”"

So sad.

All these dumb fucks voted for Dump, and all they're going to get is the one time joy of fucking Hillary

you should stfu about teh IN DEPENDS bull shit!

 

[screwulibz]

CuntClinton voters shouldnt be ALLOWED on a plane

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Hey, were you on a Delta flight from Atlanta to Allentown recently?

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/310893/trump-supporter-delta-airplane-hillary-bitches/

"Traveling during*the holidays is always terrible, but it’s important to remember that it could always be worse. You could, for instance, be trapped on a plane with a tremendous asshole who loudly supports Donald Trump and calls women “Hillary bitches.”

That’s what happened to yoga instructor Emma Baum on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving on a Delta flight from Atlanta to*Allentown, Pennslyvania. In a video posted to Facebook, Baum recorded a deeply unpleasant-looking man standing in the aisle of the plane and screaming*about the president-elect.

“Donald Trump, baby!” he yells, looking for fellow supporters (read: assholes) to join him in singing Trump’s praises. “We got some Hillary bitches on here,” he continues.

“He’s your president. Every goddamn one of youse,” he says. “If you don’t like it, too bad.”"

So sad.

All these dumb fucks voted for Dump, and all they're going to get is the one time joy of fucking Hillary

ALL? Because there could not have been anyone on the plane who voted for Trump and wished the asshole would have shut the fuck up and sat down as much as anyone on the plane who didn't vote for Trump, huh?

I mean, it's just not possible where you 'fly.'

 

[Disgustipated]

I tend to live each particular life a little longer than I probably should.

I tend to believe everyone else feels that way, too.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

ALL? Because there could not have been anyone on the plane who voted for Trump and wished the asshole would have shut the fuck up and sat down as much as anyone on the plane who didn't vote for Trump, huh?

I mean, it's just not possible where you 'fly.'

Still hoping for a miracle from God. Newsflash God hates Hillary and the Democrats. Enjoy the next several years.

 

[Conager]

..., and all they're going to get is the one time joy of fucking Hillary

Seeing Hillary Clinton and her deplorable supporters get their long-overdue comeuppance is enough joy to last a lifetime, thanks.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Kind of like they wished the "White Nationalists" saying "Hail Trump" would just sit down and shut up, too.

Gosh, it really sucks being herded into a single group and called all sorts of names, doesn't it?

I love how you guys are all tolerant and PC now.

--A LIBERAL

ALL? Because there could not have been anyone on the plane who voted for Trump and wished the asshole would have shut the fuck up and sat down as much as anyone on the plane who didn't vote for Trump, huh?

I mean, it's just not possible where you 'fly.'

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Sigh.

Here is the justification of the mass shooter.

I don't care how many people I have to kill to make my point.

Seeing Hillary Clinton and her deplorable supporters get their long-overdue comeuppance is enough joy to last a lifetime, thanks.

 

[phrodeau]

Trump supporters have put another moronic puppet into the high chair, and now they want to be thanked.

 

[KindofHere]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[phrodeau]

They are both terrible people.

Trump won because he is honest about himself.

People are tired of liars.

Honest about himself? Have you noticed his hair?

 

[QueenLevitra]

Trump supporters have put another moronic puppet into the high chair, and now they want to be thanked.

Trump might make a couple bucks BUT he will lose it all, par, in the long run.

I'm actually thinking short run.