"Let it collapse"

[Aglaopheme]

How quickly folks forget the ACA was a compromise based of the Heritage Foundation's plan. Can you say HEART?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Repealing that sorry bitch looks like an attractive alternative now........doesn't it?

Ishmael

Unfortunetly we can't repeal a president.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Well, they're not going to make any money by doing that.

Better than loosing their ass in a market rigged to fail.

How quickly folks forget the ACA was a compromise based of the Heritage Foundation's plan. Can you say HEART?

Compromise between who?

 

[Aglaopheme]

Better than loosing their ass in a market rigged to fail.



Compromise between who?

Take your pick. It was the Heritgae Foundation's answer to the Clinton's and Obama's compromise for single payer.

 

[DumOH]

Unfortunetly we can't repeal a president.

I thought you LOVE DarkieKenyan!

 

[Aglaopheme]

Better than loosing their ass in a market rigged to fail.



Compromise between who?

That is where the mandate you loath so much oriniated from.

 

[zipman]

The fact that Trump is saying "let I collapse" just shows how utterly unfit he is to be president.

The idea that Trump and the Republicans don't "own" healthcare now is completely ridiculous. Obama didn't start the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but he clearly realized that for better or worse, he owned them once he was elected.

That Trump would even say that is hard to believe.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The fact that Trump is saying "let I collapse" just shows how utterly unfit he is to be president.

The idea that Trump and the Republicans don't "own" healthcare now is completely ridiculous. Obama didn't start the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but he clearly realized that for better or worse, he owned them once he was elected.

That Trump would even say that is hard to believe.

It's reached the point where even Fox News is rolling their collective eyes at Trump. Shepard Smith and Chris Hume took great pains today to tell their drooling octogenerian audience that by lacking the votes to repeal Obamacare, Republicans now OWN healthcare in Murica.

So Much Winning!

If Trump doesn't get Project Reichstag Fire II rolling soon, he's in for a very short presidency.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

he is not a democrat, why back him?

Well he got 13.2 million votes in the primary which shows that his policies have a lot of appeal among the rank and file (vs about 16M for H). Also the Dems are at a loss to redefine themselves within the current Pelosi-Schumer-Perez leadership which pretty much represent the past" of the party.

Bernie is leading. He has the youth vote and the right focus on bread and butter issues: Jobs, balanced trade, income inequality and the right to healthcare which are more concrete than "Trump/Russia".

So call it a coalition or something but the party needs the voice vision and leadership. Do you like the way he has been going into Red States and converting? rather than hiding in the cities?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I thought you LOVE DarkieKenyan!

He's not the president & you're the only man I'll ever love.

 

[lovetoread]

Well he got 13.2 million votes in the primary which shows that his policies have a lot of appeal among the rank and file (vs about 16M for H). Also the Dems are at a loss to redefine themselves within the current Pelosi-Schumer-Perez leadership which pretty much represent the past" of the party.

Bernie is leading. He has the youth vote and the right focus on bread and butter issues: Jobs, balanced trade, income inequality and the right to healthcare which are more concrete than "Trump/Russia".

So call it a coalition or something but the party needs the voice vision and leadership. Do you like the way he has been going into Red States and converting? rather than hiding in the cities?

theres a bit that i like about him but a lot that i dont

mostly because he is not a democrat - he only pretended to be one to run for president

dont get me wrong, we need change in the party

its just not going to be him

we need younger people in charge - no one should be in office who is over 60

 

[DumOH]

when Sanders will win

the 1st FAT LADY will be in the PEN

 

[zipman]

theres a bit that i like about him but a lot that i dont

mostly because he is not a democrat - he only pretended to be one to run for president

dont get me wrong, we need change in the party

its just not going to be him

we need younger people in charge - no one should be in office who is over 60

Hillary was everything that is wrong with the Democratic party. Bernie was definitely a step in the right direction and he knew the real problems that need to be addressed in the future.

I do agree that he is now too old and that younger candidates would be better. However, the same old big money that bought Clinton was and is the problem. The party needs someone who actually cares about people, and not just says anything when it is convenient.

 

[zipman]

It's reached the point where even Fox News is rolling their collective eyes at Trump. Shepard Smith and Chris Hume took great pains today to tell their drooling octogenerian audience that by lacking the votes to repeal Obamacare, Republicans now OWN healthcare in Murica.

So Much Winning!

If Trump doesn't get Project Reichstag Fire II rolling soon, he's in for a very short presidency.

I all boils down to republicans not having an ideology that is conducive to governing.

If the ACA collapses, people will remember who cost them their healthcare.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

theres a bit that i like about him but a lot that i dont

mostly because he is not a democrat - he only pretended to be one to run for president

dont get me wrong, we need change in the party

its just not going to be him

we need younger people in charge - no one should be in office who is over 60

Hillary was everything that is wrong with the Democratic party. Bernie was definitely a step in the right direction and he knew the real problems that need to be addressed in the future.

I do agree that he is now too old and that younger candidates would be better. However, the same old big money that bought Clinton was and is the problem. The party needs someone who actually cares about people, and not just says anything when it is convenient.

I wish that person existed as well. That kid in GA had the whole national spotlight and all he had to do was have some forward looking message, but shat himself. Understandably to some degree I suppose.

I am not sure age in and of itself is a qualifier or a disqualification. I have a wonk-like appreciation for public policy so for me it is the theory and the practice and the message.

 

[zipman]

I wish that person existed as well. That kid in GA had the whole national spotlight and all he had to do was have some forward looking message, but shat himself. Understandably to some degree I suppose.

I am not sure age in and of itself is a qualifier or a disqualification. I have a wonk-like appreciation for public policy so for me it is the theory and the practice and the message.

I think under 70 is a good start. The demands of the office are hard and I think we all should have learned a lesson from Reagan.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Here in WVa, the Trump won by about 40%. The folks are up in arms at the way he's planing on fucking them.

Which is odd, because he's doing to them exactly what he said he was going to do. This, as in most things: you get what you pay for.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Take your pick. It was the Heritgae Foundation's answer to the Clinton's and Obama's compromise for single payer.

So you're saying Clinton and Obama compromised with the Heritage Foundation on the ACA?

That is where the mandate you loath so much oriniated from.

Who? The Heritage Foundation?

 

[DrDelirium]

Take your pick. It was the Heritgae Foundation's answer to the Clinton's and Obama's compromise for single payer.

Not sure where you're going with this. If Republicans are (whatever form of fucked up) because they are against a health plan that originated in a right wing think tank, are Democrats similarly fucked up because they defend it? Let's not forget that Obama came into office with a huge mandate to make big changes, and the votes on party lines to do it, but instead of proposing a single payer solution, he kept saying that congress should offer him a bill. So he pissed away his political capital and we got a Republican health care plan because Democrats in congress would not go against their sponsors from the insurance industry- although many have said that they would have had no choice if Obama had proposed a single payer bill and demanded that they support it. By the time there was a bill at all, Dems had lost the ability to force a bill through congress on their own.
It seems to me that ACA is a horrible scam, but it is a bi-partisan scam. It was at the beginning and it continues to be. Kind of like all our wars and regime-change plots- it doesn't matter who the president is, or who controls congress, we get a very consistent set of policies, and they aren't the ones that most Americans support.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Not sure where you're going with this. If Republicans are (whatever form of fucked up) because they are against a health plan that originated in a right wing think tank, are Democrats similarly fucked up because they defend it? Let's not forget that Obama came into office with a huge mandate to make big changes, and the votes on party lines to do it, but instead of proposing a single payer solution, he kept saying that congress should offer him a bill. So he pissed away his political capital and we got a Republican health care plan because Democrats in congress would not go against their sponsors from the insurance industry- although many have said that they would have had no choice if Obama had proposed a single payer bill and demanded that they support it. By the time there was a bill at all, Dems had lost the ability to force a bill through congress on their own.
It seems to me that ACA is a horrible scam, but it is a bi-partisan scam. It was at the beginning and it continues to be. Kind of like all our wars and regime-change plots- it doesn't matter who the president is, or who controls congress, we get a very consistent set of policies, and they aren't the ones that most Americans support.

That is what most (D)'s REFUSE to even acknowledge.......to them ACA was progressive Democrat perfection bestowed upon mankind by Dear Leader himself.

Until the (R)'s ruined it.

Anyone....EVERYONE other than Obama and the DNC is responsible for ACA being a suck ass scam and anyone who says otherwise is just a racist Nazi.

 

[Hypoxia]

If Republicans are (whatever form of fucked up) because they are against a health plan that originated in a right wing think tank, are Democrats similarly fucked up because they defend it?

Dems defend it because it was all they could get passed then. It sucked then and it sucks now - but not as bad as the pre-ACA system.

Medicare's overhead is ~4%. Pre-ACA, private health insurance overhead was ~24%. Yup, one-fifth of all healthcare dollars went straight into the pockets of executives and shareholders, not providers. A close relative of mine who used to run a major insurer ruefully verified those numbers for me. She got rich on the old system. We'll inherit when she croaks. Let's chant the GOP mantra: So die already!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Dems defend it because it was all they could get passed then.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO progressive those Democrats.....

 

[DrDelirium]

Dems defend it because it was all they could get passed then. It sucked then and it sucks now - but not as bad as the pre-ACA system.

Medicare's overhead is ~4%. Pre-ACA, private health insurance overhead was ~24%. Yup, one-fifth of all healthcare dollars went straight into the pockets of executives and shareholders, not providers. A close relative of mine who used to run a major insurer ruefully verified those numbers for me. She got rich on the old system. We'll inherit when she croaks. Let's chant the GOP mantra: So die already!

Sorry, but the reason Dems couldn't pass anything else is because DEMS wouldn't vote for it. They had complete control of both houses and the White House. They delayed taking any action at all until they lost control of the Senate.

ACA is better for some people, it is exactly the same for others, who remain uninsured, and it is worse for many who now pay more for less coverage that is more expensive to use. There is really no justification for forcing people to participate in a system that does not cover everyone and continues to make huge profits for private entities who contribute nothing to actual health care outcomes. This is a corporate boondoggle, and Dems just look stupid and corrupt when they support it.

If the official position of the Democratic Party was that they would repeal ACA and replace it with single payer, they would at least look like they were paying attention. Given how much they have opposed single payer in practice, and where so much of their money comes from, they would also look like they were lying, but I'm not sure that's a problem that can be solved without dissolving the party and starting over.

 

[DrDelirium]

Also, I will repeat the suggestion that if not for the ACA, private medical insurance in the US might have collapsed under its own weight already, as it was obviously unable to deliver affordable health care to the majority of Americans. ACA propped up the insurance industry, and the for-profit hospital industry, but neither are ultimately viable. Simply letting them die would have been chaotic, but the current situation is chaotic, and what is about to follow is almost certainly going to be worse, so it's hard to see how anybody but investors really benefit from the delay.

 

[Ishmael]

So what's the premise here?

The OP is correct in the percentage of the economy. Depending on who you cite health care is 15-17%. But that's what it was before "Shuck'N'JiveCare" became the law of the land.

Are hospitals going to lock their doors? Going to see your PriCare at an intersection with a "will work for food" cardboard sign? Not likely.

"Shuck'N'JiveCare" was designed to fail from the very beginning. Hell folks, we're not even through the 4th year yet and it's going to shit. So much for the "best and brightest" in DC.

The entire law is grounded in the notion that health care is a 'right.' No it isn't. No more than food, housing, or private transportation. The selling of the notion that you're 'going to live forever.' You aren't. You are going to die just like everyone else. The 'if and why' are off the table, only the 'how, when, and where' are subject to question.

And if it's repealed in its entirety? You'd see a mad scramble by the insurance companies to offer a myriad of plans tailored to the individual/family needs. I can assure you that they're gaming that possibility now.

"Shuck'N'JiveCare" is destroying the middle-middle class. The 3rd quintile. They are soon going to be forced to decide whether to buy federally mandated health insurance or put food on the table. What do you think they're going to do? The first and second quintile don't care, they're getting a free ride. And neither do the fourth and fifth, they can afford "Shuck'N'JiveCare." As a matter of fact most of the fifth quintile are quite capable of 'self-insuring.'

Me? I'd rather see it repealed immediately with a two year grace period for those on the subsidies. Giving them the chance to shop the new plans that will be offered.

I would caution you to beware. When the government becomes the source or all your wants and needs you are on the path to serfdom. A feudalistic state in which the government is the 'Lord and Master' and you receive your portion as long as you 'tow the line.'

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." B. Franklin

Ishmael