Literotica writing lore which may not be as helpful as people think

[WittyUserName]

Hey ND brother,

I know what you mean. I sometimes have to stop myself from explaining every detail. Like:

I picked up the lube bottle, which had been lying on the bed next to me where I left it, and flipped the top. I pulled one butt cheek to the side and drizzled some gel onto my ring. Then I closed the lid and lay the bottle on my tummy while I rubbed the lubricant around and into my asshole.

As opposed to:

I lubed my ass ready for him.

Sometimes those details are needed, sometimes not. It can be so tough to figure out when to add things in. All we can do is keep trying to improve!

 

[WittyUserName]

I'm on the spectrum too. Borderline case where I am able to enjoy some of the "benefits" but I suffer from the problems as well. I'm the Darren who sent you an email with the subject "Literotica Feedback" on the Slutsisters in BPP if you're interested in talking about other things since we both have the same condition. Trying my hand at writing now. How are you able to write your sex scenes? I've to imitate those in stories I like or replicate what I see in the movies and expand on them to the best of my ability by simulating them in my mind.

It's strange. When I'm doing my creative content or writing for my opera hobby, I've the same fear or rather it's the fear I'll have to answer questions so I make sure my writing is watertight and with enough detail to answer any questions which might arise in advance. However, when I'm writing, I only go into the specifics if I feel it helps the story or myself. I'm writing for myself.


Are you one of us or under another category? If you're one of us, all the better, I appreciate ladies with a witty mouth, especially if they're capable of dirty thoughts or ideas. I noticed you're always armed with some repartee. Hopefully I'll have the chance to fence with you.

I think it's possible to avoid explaining every detail if it doesn't help the story or writing it doesn't turn you on.

There's honestly no harm in writing like what you did though if you want to make yourself able to picture what you're writing or the reader able to picture what you're reading. Such detail does make the writing highly evocative.

Oh, hi again! Feel free to reach out via email again if you'd like. As for the sex scenes, I usually just try and imagine what's happening in my head and describe the details I'd be interested in.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Depends on the reader, too, of course, and we aren't all the same.

Unless it's over-the-top stupid, I don't mind overdescription. Because I don't see it. My brain just skates right over it.

--Annie

 

[Katie_Mae]

Another one:

Lit lore: Don’t describe your protagonists so that readers can project themselves onto one character and their fantasy onto another.

In reality: Characters live in the author’s head, not the reader’s, and it is solely up to the author how much or little to reveal about their appearance. If details of appearance enhance the story, then of course they should be included.

I thought the lit lore was that readers are unable to become aroused unless you describe your characters' physical appearance and the whole "no, less description is better" stance was just a reaction to that by people who don't enjoy reading about someone's physical appearance?

At any rate, it doesn't matter which was first and which was the reaction.

They're both wrong. But, also, they're both kinda right.

I think the not-so-helpful advice can be boiled down as such:

Lit law: Everyone is the same.

Reality: Everyone is quite different, actually.

Now, by "everyone is the same" I don't mean the lore is that people think everyone is exactly the same. I mean readers are here for different reasons, looking for different things, like different things, and writers are here for different reasons too, and this sometimes gets forgotten.

It's true, there are some people who need physical appearance to be described to become aroused. There are others, like me, who don't. I don't know what most of the characters look like in many of the stories I enjoy, or if I do it's often only the important or major details. (Unless the author draws an actual picture, then I can see what they look like. Or if the book gets made into a movie or something.)

Words of character description don't "build a picture in my mind," my eyes skim over them and my mind doesn't retain most of the details of appearance. If a story is very heavy on character description, it might not bother me, or it may encourage me to put it down and try something else. Which is fine, not every story is for every person.

Moving on... when the arousal happens is different. I've read here that some people masturbate while reading stories which to me is rather wild. But hey. Different strokes for different folks.

Moving on... not everyone is here reading to get aroused. I'm often not.

And then, it's not just the readers who are here for different things and reasons, us writers are too. What we're intending to get out of posting stories here will impact both out behaviours and measure of success. What you should do as a writer to achieve your goals, is very different from what I should do.

 

[EmilyMiller]

What you should do as a writer to achieve your goals, is very different from what I should do.

And hence ‘lore’ is less than helpful.

I’ve had people tell me that they masturbated to one of my stories. I’ve had people say that they cried to one of my stories. Both are words eliciting an emotional response, which is one of the main objectives of writing (not the only one of course).

 

[alohadave]

I don't know what most of the characters look like in many of the stories I enjoy, or if I do it's often only the important or major details. (Unless the author draws an actual picture, then I can see what they look like. Or if the book gets made into a movie or something.)

I also do not imagine faces other than in a generic way that they have all the normal facial features. This is both in reading and writing.

I don't think I've ever described a character's eye color. Hair color yes.

 

[alohadave]

I’ve had people tell me that they masturbated to one of my stories.

I find it really weird and uncomfortable to masturbate to stories of people I'm familiar with here in the forums. I've read some, and really enjoyed them, but I have to read them as stories, not as fap material.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I find it really weird and uncomfortable to masturbate to stories of people I'm familiar with here in the forums. I've read some, and really enjoyed them, but I have to read them as stories, not as fap material.

Yeah - these were not AH regulars (the masturbating bit), just regular readers in PMs or feedback emails. I write (in part) to turn people on, so it’s cool. As along as they don’t want to describe in detail what they did, or expect to turn ‘talking’ to me into a sext session, I take it as a compliment to my writing. I’ve had similar messages from people who seemed very much like women to me as well.

For me, there is a difference between someone masturbating thinking about my story and doing the same thinking about me. If it gets parasocial, I quit the convo.

Without getting into too many details, I’ve had guys with physical or emotional problems say my stories helped them to get excited. So long as what they say sticks to just that, then that feels like a public service.

 

[ADirtyPerv]

I find it really weird and uncomfortable to masturbate to stories of people I'm familiar with here in the forums. I've read some, and really enjoyed them, but I have to read them as stories, not as fap material.

LMAO I tried to follow your advice with Mom's Poophole Loophole. Pretty difficult.

Some good stuff there, though.

 

[FeldGasden]

It’s a story. And - just to be 100% clear - happy to chat, but not sexy times chat. I’m very, very not single. Sorry to be in your face, but better to be clear IMO.

Very fine with that. Just curious how someone who's also on the spectrum, especially a lady, can come into this. There's bound to be some sexy talk since this is an erotic literature forum. Is that within your boundaries?

Don't worry. I'm an Aspie. I prefer things to my face rather than have something blow up on me without warning on that feeble justification I should have figured out earlier though I honestly couldn't perceive anything.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I don't think I've ever described a character's eye color. Hair color yes.

I don't always, but in a WIP I have a character in the back seat of a car seeing a new person's face only in the rearview mirror, so only his eyes. She describes his eyes and eyebrows because that's all she can see except the back of his head.

--Annie

 

[Publius68]

Another one:

Lit lore: Don’t describe your protagonists so that readers can project themselves onto one character and their fantasy onto another.

In reality: Characters live in the author’s head, not the reader’s, and it is solely up to the author how much or little to reveal about their appearance. If details of appearance enhance the story, then of course they should be included.

I support both the lore and the reality here. I think keeping physical details about a 1st person narrator to a minimum is quite valuable, and not just to give the reader an opportunity for projection, but also because I don't think most descriptions of a narrator’s personal appearance are realistic. People simply do not think of themselves as a collection of details. It is totally realistic, especially in erotica, for the narrator to be interested in and focused on the physical details of others, but not themselves.
Certainly, they will have impressions of themselves and convey that, but those words should be broad-brush vocabulary, such as Handsome, Scrawny, Hapless Geek. They are often aspirational: I try to keep in shape.
When the narrator provides information about themselves is also important to maintain the realism of the character. (See avoiding info dumps). Any information about a 1PN should come in response to a human interaction (her eyes lingered on my gym-honed muscles in a way I appreciated), or possibly an action (I banged my head on the lintel. You’d think I’d learn by now, but a lifetime of tiny concussions from being too tall for doors seems to have made me stupid in a very specific way).
To cut a long, rambling post short, beyond a sudden discussion of cup sizes, nothing on Page One of a story is more likely to make me close the tab faster than, “Let me tell you about myself…"

 

[EmilyMiller]

I support both the lore and the reality here. I think keeping physical details about a 1st person narrator to a minimum is quite valuable, and not just to give the reader an opportunity for projection, but also because I don't think most descriptions of a narrator’s personal appearance are realistic. People simply do not think of themselves as a collection of details. It is totally realistic, especially in erotica, for the narrator to be interested in and focused on the physical details of others, but not themselves.
Certainly, they will have impressions of themselves and convey that, but those words should be broad-brush vocabulary, such as Handsome, Scrawny, Hapless Geek. They are often aspirational: I try to keep in shape.
When the narrator provides information about themselves is also important to maintain the realism of the character. (See avoiding info dumps). Any information about a 1PN should come in response to a human interaction (her eyes lingered on my gym-honed muscles in a way I appreciated), or possibly an action (I banged my head on the lintel. You’d think I’d learn by now, but a lifetime of tiny concussions from being too tall for doors seems to have made me stupid in a very specific way).
To cut a long, rambling post short, beyond a sudden discussion of cup sizes, nothing on Page One of a story is more likely to make me close the tab faster than, “Let me tell you about myself…"

I’d be happier with your ramble if it was caveated by, “What works for me.” As pointed out above different writers have different techniques and objectives.

The whole point of this thread is my claim that the quality of writing trumps all other concerns.

 

[Publius68]

I’d be happier with your ramble if it was caveated by, “What works for me.” As pointed out above different writers have different techniques and objectives.

The whole point of this thread is my claim that the quality of writing trumps all other concerns.

That caveat is more of a core principle for me, so I kinda forgot to mention it! Sorry!
FWIW, my words would have been caveated as “what works for me as a reader."
I am fully aware that for many of us, writing can be an exercise in self-exploration, even therapy, and if that is your primary goal, then much of what I wrote goes out the window, and some other suggestions come into play. But for me, I write what I do for the reader because I have a burning need to entertain. They are trusting me with their time, and I want them to find themselves as immersed as they can be.
Break whatever rules you want as an author, but never forget them. When you do break them, I think you should always do so for a conscious reason. When you do that well, you get the best stuff.
Of course, this is free erotica here, so if you have a naughty desire to break the rules for self-indulgent reasons, go for it.

 

[redgarters]

We had a lengthy discussion in the German authors hangout about whether or not to describe your protagonist and when it's relevant.

My take was that if a tell a first person story, as if recounting what happened (to me -- the protagonist), describing myself down to the toe kills the mood, but I was more or less alone with my view...

So you're saying German doesn't have a hyperspecific word, like maybe Goldhaarvollkurvenleibwundererscheinung, for every possible bodytype - infodumping in a word?

(Bad) jokes aside, I just now realised I have written 26k words of a new story over the last two weeks where I've described nothing about the physical attributes of the MC. A few thousand words in I've put in that she has blue eyes. Thats it.

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

... (Bad) jokes aside, I just now realised I have written 26k words of a new story over the last two weeks where I've described nothing about the physical attributes of the MC. A few thousand words in I've put in that she has blue eyes. Thats it.

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

I just got a story published (appearing January 2) in which I say almost nothing about the appearance of the two characters. We'll see how it does.

--Annie

 

[Dodola]

So you're saying German doesn't have a hyperspecific word, like maybe Goldhaarvollkurvenleibwundererscheinung, for every possible bodytype - infodumping in a word?

(Bad) jokes aside, I just now realised I have written 26k words of a new story over the last two weeks where I've described nothing about the physical attributes of the MC. A few thousand words in I've put in that she has blue eyes. Thats it.

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

As a fan, I can't imagine anything you write being off-putting, trusting that you've included whatever necessary, or not, to keep me immersed.
I enterered the most recent summer lovin contest with a story that I never described the MCs appearance in, and it hasn't been mentioned in any of the comments and has a decent score.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

My point is not that you have to include descriptions, it’s rather that the prohibition against including them is silly. Including descriptions doesn’t make for good or bad literature, excluding them doesn’t make for good or bad literature. A rule saying do one thing or the other is not helpful - IMO - from a writing perspective.

 

[redgarters]

My point is not that you have to include descriptions, it’s rather that the prohibition against including them is silly. Including descriptions doesn’t make for good or bad literature, excluding them doesn’t make for good or bad literature. A rule saying do one thing or the other is not helpful - IMO - from a writing perspective.

Oh, absolutely agree. There's no one right way to do it. The only question is if it's "well written", and even that is not an absolute yardstick.

As a fan, I can't imagine anything you write being off-putting, trusting that you've included whatever necessary, or not, to keep me immersed.
I enterered the most recent summer lovin contest with a story that I never described the MCs appearance in, and it hasn't been mentioned in any of the comments and has a decent score.

Oh, thank you, made me blush a bit there
I'll have to look up that Summer Lovin story now, very interested to see how you pulled it off.

 

[Britva415]

Would that put you guys off a story

No

does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better

No - you have to do that yourself. Simply not-describing is no sort of cheat code for characterization

you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

More or less, though I’d prefer to not be brought out of immersion by realizing I have been given no info at all about her identity. Appearance isn’t everything but size and age and taste or style are elements of characterization. So if you can imply any of those, it goes a long way toward getting away with not stating them outright. Getting away with it means there is enough compelling events that I don’t find myself scratching at the paint halfway through.

 

[redgarters]

No

No - you have to do that yourself. Simply not-describing is no sort of cheat code for characterization

More or less, though I’d prefer to not be brought out of immersion by realizing I have been given no info at all about her identity. Appearance isn’t everything but size and age and taste or style are elements of characterization. So if you can imply any of those, it goes a long way toward getting away with not stating them outright. Getting away with it means there is enough compelling events that I don’t find myself scratching at the paint halfway through.

True, it all matters. I do a lot of characterization with things like that, just not descriptions of physical appearance.

 

[Statius]

The thread I needed a year ago. Forget the rules, burn it to the ground. Open the mind, be inventive, use your voice, tell your story way, fuck everything and what everyone else says. Spell correctly, proper Grammer (unless... Awe forget the details, who cares). Oh well, after the failure of '25 maybe '26 will be better; doubtful, but maybe.

 

[THBGato]

(Bad) jokes aside, I just now realised I have written 26k words of a new story over the last two weeks where I've described nothing about the physical attributes of the MC. A few thousand words in I've put in that she has blue eyes. Thats it.

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

Not in the slightest.

I couldn't tell you what Pip from Great Expectations looks like, or Hardy's Tess, or Sherlock Holmes, or Tom Joad, or Holly Golightly, or Mara of the Acoma. Probably those writers do describe their appearance, but it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. But I remember them. Not because of their appearance though. (And, yes, I remember that Anne of Greengables is a redhead, Tyrion is a dwarf and Bobby Draper is hawt... but those aren't the reasons why I remember those characters.)

So include descriptions of appearances if it is pertinent and/or if it pleases you. But, in my view, it really doesn't matter if you don't.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Would that put you guys off a story, or does it (as I'm kind of hoping) make the focus on the internal/emotional makeup of the MC drive the story better, and you just imagine her physical looks in your head anyway you like?

I think not knowing anything about what the MCs look like would distract me a little bit; I don't think it'd make the story stronger. In erotic fiction I want to know why the characters find each other attractive, and unless it's a story about people who are purely sapiosexual or have an obsessive paraphilia like Joji's need for humiliation in Naomi, that attraction is going to involve some physical traits.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I just got a story published (appearing January 2) in which I say almost nothing about the appearance of the two characters. We'll see how it does.

--Annie

It's out: https://literotica.com/s/heels-over-head

Doing pretty well so far.

--Annie