Look, Islam is not going away

[BoyNextDoor]

I do think that simultaneously telling them that there are no virgins waiting for them is a part of the strategy.

PS - Kill all their sheep, and their kids

 

[KingOrfeo]

Just drop ordinance until the place is unlivable.

If the place is unlivable, where are its inhabitants going to live?

And we think Europe has a refugee crisis now!

Unless you're proposing . . . the "g" word?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

If the place is unlivable, where are its inhabitants going to live?

And we think Europe has a refugee crisis now!

Unless you're proposing . . . the "g" word?

“Allahu akbar”

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Bernie Sanders: “This country will rid our planet of this barbarous organization called ISIS."

Go Bernie

 

[KingOrfeo]

I do think that simultaneously telling them that there are no virgins waiting for them is a part of the strategy.

Did that ever work before?

PS - Kill all their sheep, and their kids

Won't somebody please think of the sheep?!

I know I do . . . 'round about two in the morning . . .

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Did that ever work before?

It worked on me.

 

[BotanyBoy]

See post #16, and multiply by as many countries as you think need invading.

You seem hung up on the stupid shit and ignored what I wrote.


I didn't say it would be easy and cheap....consider those things and you've already lost. If those are primary concerns go the fuck home and wait for the next attack.

Best part is it could be cheap, we could make them pay for it....but bleeding heart liburhul won't allow that.

All pointless, I think it will take ISIS doing a whole lot more before we are willing to take the collar off M'uricuh. Because right now we are just playing fuck fuck games.....setting money on fire.

 

[Iceprincess12]

The 7th Day Adventists also push toward apocalypse. It's a big part of Dr. Ben Carson's support base.

Not the adventists!! I still believe Sabbath is on Tuesday.

Maybe we will get lucky, France and Russia might see it through until the end and we can just watch, munching on popcorn.

 

[Sunshine]

These crazy killers must be annihilated by whatever means possible. I really don't care what it takes because they want to take us all out in one grand end times blood bath.

I have always been a pacifist. This group is different. Kill them all.

 

[Halen]

you are not even American so shut the fuck up

So IsIs is an American Problem.. Ah ok Must have been some major misleading news to produce all those deaths in Paris when it was really in the united states.

Wow Morons crawl out of everywhere...

The Problem is the Liberal minded people, who think oh these people are so hard done by, lets forgo immigration screening and fast track these terrorists into civilized society, I mean they have known nothing but war, violence and hate for the west their entire lives, but hey lets rush these people in and ban immigration from Europe.

Islam is not a religion, its a terrorist organization, I have yet to see a single member of the religion of "Peace" come forward to denounce a single attack in over 40 years. Not 1. No leaders no followers none!.

For people that don't want the "Extremists" to be how there religion is perceived you would think the "decent" ones would step up and show the world not all are bad, nope instead they bury their head into the sand and hide. Silence is just as Guilty as Action...

Denounce the religion. I mean come on when 1 sect cant walk down the same street as the other with out bloodshed how peaceful are they really?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Best part is it could be cheap, we could make them pay for it....but bleeding heart liburhul won't allow that.

As in Iraq, the "them" doing most of the paying, in blood and trouble and suffering and even further impoverishment, would not be the terrorists or insurgents or any kind of bad guys, but people who just happened to be born there. I suppose it's "bleeding heart" to want to spare them any more grief than they've already been through. If so, may your heart spring a leak.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Islam is not a religion, its a terrorist organization,

Why do you say that as if a religion were something better?

I have yet to see a single member of the religion of "Peace" come forward to denounce a single attack in over 40 years. Not 1. No leaders no followers none!.

See here, here, and here.

 

[oggbashan]

... I have yet to see a single member of the religion of "Peace" come forward to denounce a single attack in over 40 years. Not 1. No leaders no followers none!.

For people that don't want the "Extremists" to be how there religion is perceived you would think the "decent" ones would step up and show the world not all are bad, nope instead they bury their head into the sand and hide. Silence is just as Guilty as Action...

Many Muslim leaders have condemned and continue to condemn terrorism as nothing to do with Islam. They reject the ISIS justification as a perversion of Islamic texts.

Many condemned the attacks on Paris within hours, almost as soon as they got the news. Iran has. Egypt has. Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has.

You just aren't following an unbiased news source.

If YOU haven't seen the condemnations, you aren't listening to the millions of Muslim voices rejecting the terrorists.

 

[BotanyBoy]

As in Iraq,

No, Iraq was a perfect example of how to fail horribly trying to wage a PC war that pleases the bleeding hearts who don't really understand the concept of war. It's like someone lied to them and told them it meant cuddling cute puppies and holding hands around a fuckin' camp fire or some shit. Of course the RW supports this bullshitting around military activity because MONEY.

Look if we aren't willing to go in and sweep all these countries and KILL every fucking ISIS member/supporter and everyone around them including their fuckin dog..........we just need to stay the fuck home and not waste our time, money and effort. Accept that bat shit Islamist from one of several mid eastern nations occasionally pop up and kill a bunch of Europeans/Americans etc and accommodate their behavior into our lifestyles. There just isn't a whole bunch of in between.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Look if we aren't willing to go in and sweep all these countries and KILL every fucking ISIS member/supporter and everyone around them including their fuckin dog . . .

For every one we kill, we recruit two more.

 

[BotanyBoy]

For every one we kill, we recruit two more.

No that's what happens when you precision strike and martyr a target.

When there is no one to recruit or be recruited the threat is neutralized.

Nice tidy precision military ops for the sake of warm fuzziez on the CNN might make soccer moms and dads feel good across the heartland but it's a shitty war tactic. I'm not for war but really only because I don't think Europe looking at us like monsters and hearing all their shit about what horrible warmongers we are is really worth waging an effective war.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, the whole "bomb'em back into the Stone Age" don't mean a whole lot in areas with no power grid or running water and a fair few living in mud-hut and tending hears of goats and sheep.


However, I do think Botany Boy is right.
Trying to 'win the hearts and minds' is going to accomplish exactly two things: Jack and Shit.
To paraphrase Machiavelli, "It is better to be feared than to be loved." The ISIS crowd and their supporters will never love the West. But if they come to the conclusion that further attacks will result in a shitload of their people going to collect their 72 virgins tout suite, the eventual survivors will start thinking that defiling goats for a few decades before turning into worm food from natural causes might not be as bad as all that.

Bot is dead wrong on this and America is a damn good example of why hot chocolate and hugs works better than being douches. We just don't like to hear it because we are drilled from day one in the religion of peace through firepower and hugs are for pussies.

And that's a complete misquote of Machiavelli.

If you cannot be both loved and feared, then it is better to be feared than loved. Men are generally fickle, afraid of danger, and greedy. When a prince benefits them, they will do anything for the prince, but when trouble comes, they will desert the prince. People will break ties of love if it is to their advantage, but fear of punishment they will never transgress. A prince must be careful not to make himself hated, even though he is feared; to do this, he must keep his hands off his subjects' property and their women. People will sooner forget the death of a father than the loss of an inheritance. However, when a prince commands an army, he must be cruel in order to control his troops.

Emphasis added.

If we're gonna go on a scorched Earth Crusade let's just call it what it is is. A genocide and convince people that Hitler wasn't wrong. . .he simply failed. And why do we fall down Master Bruce?

Machiavelli was however clearly not advocating being cruel for cruelty sake as many of you are and was very clear on the fact that being hated is a BAD thing.

 

[KingOrfeo]

No that's what happens when you precision strike and martyr a target.

When there is no one to recruit or be recruited . . .

. . . then you have committed genocide.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Bot is dead wrong on this and America is a damn good example of why hot chocolate and hugs works better

It doesn't work at all. It's a got a 100% fail rate.

The only time we ever get results is when we go smoke some mother fuckers.

. . . then you have committed genocide.

I would have done no such thing.

I'm not out to kill Arabs or Muslims off the face of the planet and never suggested such a thing. We don't have any problems in Indonesia or Egypt or a number of other Muslim populations.

But Iraq and Syria are out of control and if we want to we can go regulate those mother fuckers. Gonna have to kill a whole fuck ton of people, but it can be done....we don't have to put up with that shit.

Or we can treat it like another school shooting...do some facebook or #whuteva and go on about our lives normally.

But the half stepping bullshit...that's just fucking around perpetuating the bullshit.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I point to Europe post WWII and the differences between the treaties at the end of that war vs previous wars and the difference in frequency of terrorists attacks in the US vs France. SOMETHING is clearly working better for us and it ain't being taken seriously since Russia keeps getting hit just not quite as successfully.

100% failure rate it is not.

 

[1sickbastard]

Bot is dead wrong on this and America is a damn good example of why hot chocolate and hugs works better than being douches. We just don't like to hear it because we are drilled from day one in the religion of peace through firepower and hugs are for pussies.

And that's a complete misquote of Machiavelli.


Emphasis added.

If we're gonna go on a scorched Earth Crusade let's just call it what it is is. A genocide and convince people that Hitler wasn't wrong. . .he simply failed. And why do we fall down Master Bruce?

Machiavelli was however clearly not advocating being cruel for cruelty sake as many of you are and was very clear on the fact that being hated is a BAD thing.

Yeah, the love boat for ISIS and the West has left the dock. If you think you can change a suicide bomber's mind by giving him/her a hug, please feel free.

Now to the Hitler/genocide analogy; fail on couple levels.
Genocide is usually in reference the extermination to an ethnic group. In a broad sense it can mean the extermination to an ideology.

If you're referring to extermination of an ideology, I'll assert that there are some ideologies that do merit extermination, such as Nazi ideology, slavery (which was an ideology) or any ideology that espouses deliberate violence to maintain or propagate itself.

WW2 was a genocidal war against a particularly racist violent ideology, and it did involve the wholesale slaughter of civilian populations, not only by the wholesale, industrialized murder of Jews, Romani, Communists, homosexuals and political dissidents by the fascist regimes of Germany, Italy and Japan, but by the Allied bombing of civilian targets, like Hamburg, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki (to name a few). Modern warfare isn't only about defeating an opponents troops, but also the civilians which provide logistical support for those troops.

Yes, it would be a wonderful salve to the conscience to be able to separate the civilian support from the fighting forces, but when it comes to war, there really is only two options; do whatever it takes to win, or lose.
“You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm as against these terrible hardships of war. War is cruelty, there is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”~T. Sherman

ISIS has declared war. ISIS is an ideology of violent, dogmatic xenophobes. If you think you can subdue ISIS by the application of warm fuzzies, please, be my guest and give it your best shot. If you think you can subdue ISIS by anything but total capitulation, again, feel free to give it your best shot.

I'm not one for advocating violence as a reasonable solution to parties which are willing to be reasonable. IF you think that ISIS can be reasoned with, I'd love to hear the particulars.

In the particular case of ISIS, however, I'd be more than open to any reasonable case presented that it (ISIS) is open to reason, negotiation or any non-violent solution so that there is any workable option other than it's complete and total eradication.

Do you have one? If so, by all means, do elucidate.

Oh, BTW, thanks for the full quote from "The Prince" My copy is buried in a mountain of crap so I haven't reread it in some time.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It doesn't work at all. It's a got a 100% fail rate.

The only time we ever get results is when we go smoke some mother fuckers.

Smoking is your solution to every problem, isn't it?

 

[renard_ruse]

Don't get me wrong, I heartily wish it would go away. I have no defenses to offer of Islamic doctrines or traditions, I have no time for any Yahvist faith -- this world would be a better place if Abraham had been the village atheist -- and Islam cannot even claim good religious music as a redeeming feature -- but, we have to face facts: One human being in five is a Muslim. 100 years ago, one human being in five was a Muslim. Almost certainly, 100 years from now, one human being in five will be a Muslim. Islam is not going to overwhelm and convert all the world, nor are hundreds of millions of Muslims going to apostasize en masse to other faiths or to agnosticism or atheism. Jihadist Salafism can perhaps be finally defeated and permanently marginalized, but Islam as such is never going to go the way of Fascism and Nazism and Communism, and the infidel world will just have to reach a workable accommodation with it. All discussions of how to respond to Islamic terrorism must begin from that incontrovertible assumption.

I have no problem with Islam in historically Islamic countries. Its a good bulwark against the social liberalism of the "west" today (though I'm not Muslim or any religion, I'm a non-religious social conservative who is appalled by liberalism, feminism, gayism, and other evil ideas of the past 50 years). I don't support Islam particularly though. I'm about as neutral toward it as you can get. I really don't give a toss about it one way or the other.

Other than that though, you make excellent points. The best solution is armed neutrality and isolationism as George Washington advised us in his Farewell Address to the nation many years ago.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, the love boat for ISIS and the West has left the dock. If you think you can change a suicide bomber's mind by giving him/her a hug, please feel free.

Will do. France has proven that ghettoizing them clearly doesn't make them less likely to kill you and America seems to be displaying that by and large hugging them is working. It's certainly no worse than any other plan and appears better than most.

But carry on.

Now to the Hitler/genocide analogy; fail on couple levels.
Genocide is usually in reference the extermination to an ethnic group. In a broad sense it can mean the extermination to an ideology.

If you're referring to extermination of an ideology, I'll assert that there are some ideologies that do merit extermination, such as Nazi ideology, slavery (which was an ideology) or any ideology that espouses deliberate violence to maintain or propagate itself.

WW2 was a genocidal war against a particularly racist violent ideology, and it did involve the wholesale slaughter of civilian populations, not only by the wholesale, industrialized murder of Jews, Romani, Communists, homosexuals and political dissidents by the fascist regimes of Germany, Italy and Japan, but by the Allied bombing of civilian targets, like Hamburg, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki (to name a few). Modern warfare isn't only about defeating an opponents troops, but also the civilians which provide logistical support for those troops.

Yes, it would be a wonderful salve to the conscience to be able to separate the civilian support from the fighting forces, but when it comes to war, there really is only two options; do whatever it takes to win, or lose.
“You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm as against these terrible hardships of war. War is cruelty, there is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”~T. Sherman

ISIS has declared war. ISIS is an ideology of violent, dogmatic xenophobes. If you think you can subdue ISIS by the application of warm fuzzies, please, be my guest and give it your best shot. If you think you can subdue ISIS by anything but total capitulation, again, feel free to give it your best shot.

I'm not one for advocating violence as a reasonable solution to parties which are willing to be reasonable. IF you think that ISIS can be reasoned with, I'd love to hear the particulars.

In the particular case of ISIS, however, I'd be more than open to any reasonable case presented that it (ISIS) is open to reason, negotiation or any non-violent solution so that there is any workable option other than it's complete and total eradication.

Do you have one? If so, by all means, do elucidate.

Oh, BTW, thanks for the full quote from "The Prince" My copy is buried in a mountain of crap so I haven't reread it in some time.

Slavery is less an ideology and more an economic model but details details. The only way you REALLY exterminate an ideology is through hearts and minds. You can ban practices (slavery for example was a legal practice. Eliminating it didn't eliminate racist ideologies but it did eliminate slavery.) You can attempt to slaughter everybody who thinks that way but really at absolute best you limit their numbers. Even Nazi ideology survives, they simply don't control one of the largest industrial powers of the world anymore.

War has ALWAYS been about logistics. That's nothing new, nor is bringing in the civilians for various reasons and it has varying levels of effectiveness.

You clearly are not willing to listen so carry on with Operation Genocide. It's not like you actually want to try anything else. This is the course we have set ourselves upon and aside from bitching about it I have to support my team.

However the smart thing to do would be to treat ISIS the same way we treat every criminal organization. Kill leaders when leaders become available. Make their operations as difficult to pursue as possible while doing minimal harm to the civilians. Get them down to a reasonable level and simply ignore them.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I point to Europe post WWII and the differences between the treaties at the end of that war vs previous wars and the difference in frequency of terrorists attacks in the US vs France. SOMETHING is clearly working better for us and it ain't being taken seriously since Russia keeps getting hit just not quite as successfully.

100% failure rate it is not.

I don't think it has anything to do with us giving them cash and prizes instead of killing them.

And since WWII we've pretty much had our ass handed to us at every turn. Sorry, bleeding heart liburhul bullshit doesn't work when it comes to conducting warfare, it fucking sucks and fails horribly.

Will do. France has proven that ghettoizing them clearly doesn't make them less likely to kill you and America seems to be displaying that by and large hugging them is working. It's certainly no worse than any other plan and appears better than most.

Do you have a single shred of evidence that ISIS is going away because hugz n hot chocolate?

Because I'm pretty sure they are going to keep on doing their thing until someone puts a bullet in their ass.