Lordstown, OH

[SpeareChucker]

Okay.

Is GM in the business of caring?
Is GM in the business of providing jobs to specific communities?
or in the business of making a profit for its investors, many of whom are 401K holders?

Is this one plant that fucking important that we would destroy GM and wipe out investors in order for caring to take place? Someone bet wrong in their 'enthusiasm' to get the plant, go blame them, they are the ones who bet with house money. If they were Republicans, let the chips fall where they may and bring in the Democrats who will give business no breaks, I mean as long as we're assiduously not playing partisan politics with the issue and the lives of citizen taxpayers...

 

[AngusBridie]

Okay.

Is GM in the business of caring?
Is GM in the business of providing jobs to specific communities?
or in the business of making a profit for its investors, many of whom are 401K holders?

Is this one plant that fucking important that we would destroy GM and wipe out investors in order for caring to take place? Someone bet wrong in their 'enthusiasm' to get the plant, go blame them, they are the ones who bet with house money. If they were Republicans, let the chips fall where they may and bring in the Democrats who will give business no breaks, I mean as long as we're assiduously not playing partisan politics with the issue and the lives of citizen taxpayers...

Here's an older article out of Youngstown, Nobody needs to take it verbatim or even believe any of it, or go as far to agree with any of it. but the simple fact is, they were not producing as many of that model cars based on demand. GM chose not to retool it, because that is their choice.. End of Story..

https://www.vindy.com/news/2019/feb/10/theres-a-case-to-be-made-for-gms-lordsto/

 

[SpeareChucker]

Yes.
It was their choice.
I am not the one attaching morality to the decision.
It's been a long time since the 50s when an automotive plant meant long-term stability for the workers of Detroit.


(... let alone Ohio or South Carolina.)


I gave evidence of government picking and choosing winners based on desired outcomes.
I don't remember anyone ranting and raving about how much free money was thrown at 'green' business, communities and jobs when it was done by a government that we approved of being in the caring business; they proved that caring was a poor calculus in making business decisions no matter how many tax credits you throw after your good intentions.
This is clearly just another example of backfiring good intentions where the blame is never put on the shoulders of the government that made the fucking mistake. This one is not on GM as much as it is government which gambled on a stability that stopped existing by the end of the 60s.
If not for the government interventions and intrusions in the market place, you probably never would have even had a plant in the first place.
Is that GMs fault too?

 

[Klinkster]

And....retooling a manufacturing line, ain't free. This would be especially true if you went from building something like a Cruze, to a Silverado.
And.....when you are not just closing this one down, but 4 others.....which one do you retool, if any?

If anyone wants to arbitrarily assume, that they shut it down to fuck the town......bring on some sort of facts.
Or if they were making money....bring on the facts.
Otherwise.....you are assuming.
But the real facts that we can see, with our own two little eyes, say it ain't so.

But....TDS is ever present, so if you don't like GM, and think they did it to screw someone.....buy a Ford.

Here's an older article out of Youngstown, Nobody needs to take it verbatim or even believe any of it, or go as far to agree with any of it. but the simple fact is, they were not producing as many of that model cars based on demand. GM chose not to retool it, because that is their choice.. End of Story..

https://www.vindy.com/news/2019/feb/10/theres-a-case-to-be-made-for-gms-lordsto/

 

[AngusBridie]

Yes.
It was their choice.
I am not the one attaching morality to the decision.
It's been a long time since the 50s when an automotive plant meant long-term stability for the workers of Detroit.


(... let alone Ohio or South Carolina.)


I gave evidence of government picking and choosing winners based on desired outcomes.
I don't remember anyone ranting and raving about how much free money was thrown at 'green' business, communities and jobs when it was done by a government that we approved of being in the caring business; they proved that caring was a poor calculus in making business decisions no matter how many tax credits you throw after your good intentions.
This is clearly just another example of backfiring good intentions where the blame is never put on the shoulders of the government that made the fucking mistake. This one is not on GM as much as it is government which gambled on a stability that stopped existing by the end of the 60s.
If not for the government interventions and intrusions in the market place, you probably never would have even had a plant in the first place.
Is that GMs fault too?

I'm not arguing with you, i'm agreeing with you.

 

[SpeareChucker]

A Ford?


Not one of those obnoxious loud little cars with the spoilers and tribal flames that get from 0-to-40 in 3 seconds and then, not much else...



... the kind that are forever weaving in and out around my Ford only to blow an engine and end up on the side of the road trying to flag me down for assistance?

 

[SpeareChucker]

I'm not arguing with you, i'm agreeing with you.

I'm just belaboring a point for the benefit of BND and his crew.

I mean, you did see me not quoting you. Right?

 

[AngusBridie]

And....retooling a manufacturing line, ain't free. This would be especially true if you went from building something like a Cruze, to a Silverado.
And.....when you are not just closing this one down, but 4 others.....which one do you retool, if any?

If anyone wants to arbitrarily assume, that they shut it down to fuck the town......bring on some sort of facts.
Or if they were making money....bring on the facts.
Otherwise.....you are assuming.
But the real facts that we can see, with our own two little eyes, say it ain't so.

But....TDS is ever present, so if you don't like GM, and think they did it to screw someone.....buy a Ford.

They chose to discontinue this model in North America, They decided to say Fuck this plant because as you say, retooling is not free, they are going to build something they think they can make money on in the future. Maybe they were making money on this model but saw the end of the line and are preparing to compete in future markets. Maybe they are fucking idiots. GM doesn't have to have a rhyme or reason for what it does. Nor does it have anything to do with any political party .

 

[Klinkster]

Dunno.....I don't own any cars.
Own some pickups....and a few pickups....and....a Rubicon......

A Ford?


Not one of those obnoxious loud little cars with the spoilers and tribal flames that get from 0-to-40 in 3 seconds and then, not much else...



... the kind that are forever weaving in and out around my Ford only to blow an engine and end up on the side of the road trying to flag me down for assistance?

 

[AngusBridie]

I'm just belaboring a point for the benefit of BND and his crew.

I mean, you did see me not quoting you. Right?

No I did not, You're from GM aren't you? ( I'm on my phone and its hard to see sometimes )

 

[SpeareChucker]

I'm retired.
Grew up in a Chevy family, BelAire wagon, Corvair, Chevy II, Nova...,



But my daily driver is an F150.

 

[SpeareChucker]

No I did not, You're from GM aren't you? ( I'm on my phone and its hard to see sometimes )

Oh, and just so you know, this, to me, has nothing to do with GM but the relationship between business, government and the idiots who vote for government/business interests and then rail when things go sour.

This is why I now quote you (and should have for the last post), but I'm a Libertarian of the Austrian School of Economics and the von Humbolt Liimits of State Action.

 

[AngusBridie]

My father worked at ford, I get the discount, i too own a F150... I've seen plants shut down and open up later, the one he worked at is shut down and now back on the market.

Its probably worth mentioning that alot of these workers were offered jobs in different states, some may not like to move but to keep seniority at a UAW job is worth moving.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Most of my maternal uncles worked at the Ford or GM plants down in the Bottoms after they retired from the Navy.
They made out quite well, but as I pointed out, that was back before OPEC and real competition in the market and there was an inherent and enduring stability to these companies. On the other hand, the big three decided what you wanted to buy and there was little other choice.
Now, we have lots of choices and lots of competition, so they must be more nimble and quick and if that means closing a plant, well, that's just economic reality.

 

[Klinkster]

It's theirs....GM's that is.
I'd like to hope that they build something there. Or....someone else comes in and does.
I won't condemn them for shutting it down. It is their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to make money. Simple as that, and yes....it has NOTHING to do with politics. It's a matter of business.

Don't like 'em, and the way they run their business, (I don't particularly like em) then shop elsewhere. That's what I do. It's what everybody should do, instead of making some political or other hoo-rah about it, that does not apply....even if they think it does.

They chose to discontinue this model in North America, They decided to say Fuck this plant because as you say, retooling is not free, they are going to build something they think they can make money on in the future. Maybe they were making money on this model but saw the end of the line and are preparing to compete in future markets. Maybe they are fucking idiots. GM doesn't have to have a rhyme or reason for what it does. Nor does it have anything to do with any political party .

 

[Klinkster]

I read somewhere, that about a third moved to different places.
Eating....is worth moving.

My father worked at ford, I get the discount, i too own a F150... I've seen plants shut down and open up later, the one he worked at is shut down and now back on the market.

Its probably worth mentioning that alot of these workers were offered jobs in different states, some may not like to move but to keep seniority at a UAW job is worth moving.

 

[AngusBridie]

I read somewhere, that about a third moved to different places.
Eating....is worth moving.

I dont really know the numbers but quite a few. Unfortunately, one of the places is Flint, Mi... At least they have a good salary, because they'll need it to buy water to drink.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Okay.

Is GM in the business of caring?
Is GM in the business of providing jobs to specific communities?
or in the business of making a profit for its investors, many of whom are 401K holders?

Is this one plant that fucking important that we would destroy GM and wipe out investors in order for caring to take place? Someone bet wrong in their 'enthusiasm' to get the plant, go blame them, they are the ones who bet with house money. If they were Republicans, let the chips fall where they may and bring in the Democrats who will give business no breaks, I mean as long as we're assiduously not playing partisan politics with the issue and the lives of citizen taxpayers...

Fuck the families
Shareholder Value Uber Alles!

It's Teh Glibertarian Way!

 

[doowdniw]

Actually if you want to get political about it, Obama got great press touting the Chevy Cruze as the car of the future, yet it was so far off of market demand they can't hardly give the car away.

Are you saying that Trump alone cannot fix this?

 

[Klinkster]

FUCK THE SHAREHOLDERS!
LOSE MONEY to give jobs to families.

WTF is wrong with you Screamin' Eagle?

It's a fucking business, not a charity.
Do you know, that it's against the law, for them to knowingly lose money for their shareholders, and not do nothing about it?

Life ain't easy.
Sometimes it's ugly.
Get the fuck over it.

Buy the place Screamin' Eagle. Hire them back.

Fuck the families
Shareholder Value Uber Alles!

It's Teh Glibertarian Way!

 

[SpeareChucker]

Have you ever noticed how much time this peak earning years worker bee spends here during the day?

I'll bet his employer, or the woman he lives off of, is impressed...


What do you say Bob? Ready to confess to your lies?

 

[Klinkster]

The difference....between it and me.....and many.....

I'm retired.

He's retarded.

Simple as that.

Have you ever noticed how much time this peak earning years worker bee spends here during the day?

I'll bet his employer, or the woman he lives off of, is impressed...


What do you say Bob? Ready to confess to your lies?

 

[SpeareChucker]

Democrats Can Kiss Ohio Goodbye

Why?

Before we get to that, something similar happened in my old home state, Missouri. Like Ohio, Missouri was once a solid swing state. The Sho-Nuff State's record at picking presidential winners isn't quite as good as Ohio's, but it is still impressive. Missouri voted for the winner in all but three elections since 1904, the year of the famous World's Fair at Forest Park. What's interesting is that of the three elections Missouri voters missed, two of them were quite recent: 2008 and 2012. Even when Barack Obama managed to pick off blood-red Indiana from John McCain, he couldn't come close in Missouri.

Missouri hasn't gone blue since Bill Clinton in 1992 and '96, and it's fair to say that two dismal Republican candidates, plus the presence of Ross Perot on the ballot, had a lot to do with those two Dem victories. Even more telling, like Ohio, Missouri has gotten out of the habit of electing Democrats to statewide office. Both chambers of the Missouri General Assembly swing about 2.5 Republicans for every Democrat.

I like to call what happened the Gephardt Effect. As the national Democratic party drifted away from its blue-collar/culturally conservative voters, local Democrats had to make... certain changes. If you'll recall, Dick Gephardt was a long-serving Democratic Missouri congressman (1977-2005), representing union-heavy areas in south St. Louis County, and down the I-55 corridor. While reliably left-leaning on economic issues, Gephardt was pro-life and very much a part of the area's historic German and Polish Catholic cultural conservatism.

But then he decided to run for president in 1988, and thew all that out the window. His flip-flops that year on abortion and other issues so important to Deep Blue State voters was so legendary that he became a running joke in Berkeley Breathed's "Bloom County" comic strip. After being abducted by aliens, 30-something permanent frat boy and womanizer Steve Dallas underwent a process of Gephardtization:

Stephen Green, PJMedia



https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/sayonara-ohio-the-democrats-buckeye-blues/

 

[SpeareChucker]

If you hate this economy and companies like GM, then divest your stocks and vote Democrat.



https://reason.com/2019/04/22/2020-democrats-election-stock-market/

The you will get a green economy in the red. Whoo-bouy, guuuaaaaarrrranTEEEEE!

 

[RobDownSouth]

If you hate this economy and companies like GM, then divest your stocks and vote Democrat.



https://reason.com/2019/04/22/2020-democrats-election-stock-market/

The you will get a green economy in the red. Whoo-bouy, guuuaaaaarrrranTEEEEE!

Oh look. Investment advice from AJ. You might remember AJ, he's the man that timed the last 4 market crashes, getting out at the tiptop of the market each time, locking in phenomenal profits. No Wall Street Trader has ever done what he'd done, and they longed to know his secret...

....but there were customers to greet at Wal-mart, and the trucks that arrived there daily weren't going to unload themselves.

You might recall AJ's greatest stock gamble: On January 20, 2009, AJ solemnly announced that the end was nigh. A Negro usurper was in the White House, and the world was going to hell. He sold off all of his stocks and bonds, liquidated his positions, bought yet another gun, a pallet of Glenn Beck's Freedom Seeds (for the post-apocalypse) and used the remainder to buy gold. Precious metals would outlast the upcoming shitstorm.

But then....

But then....

The stock market roared to an all-time high instead of crashing, and lo and behold AJ revealed his masterstroke: He'd actually kept his portfolio, the one he'd swore to Skyfather he'd sold, and now was poised to make great profits.

As a Glibertarian, he saw no contradiction in telling people what to do, as opposed to actually doing it himself. "Practice what you preach" is a luxury we can no longer afford in this Age of Terror.

And now, once again, he's telling us to divest.....