'Most of our church family is gone' - Shooting

[Dribble]

The issue is...how can a person who has a long history of violence...kicked out of the military...escaped from a mental institution...a person w so many fucking red flags...walk in and buy a gun legally that by all accounts violated several existing safety checks all ready in place?

If i am a building inspector and i turn a blind eye...and people die because i didnt do my job....i can be held not just liable...but culpable. Until those that didnt do their job here are held accountable...nothing will change. This shouldnt have happened and denying this simple truth only pushes the 2 sides further apart.

What should be happening is both sides coming together and saying wtf? But no....my dick is bigger than yours. Thanks for proving my point so easily.

 

[coachdb18]

More guns in an area lead to more gun-related deaths -- that's documented.

Just the opposite, and THAT's documented.

https://i.imgur.com/LaM1PhZ.gif

 

[coachdb18]

Sorry for you. Those words were rhetoric, designed to justify rebellion in the eyes of countries other than the United Kingdom. The only country that accepted 'these truths' at the time was France. They did that because they were at war on and off with the United Kingdom and diverting the UK's forces across the Atlantic was in France's interest.

The writers even lied to themselves. At the time 'All Men' did not include slaves or Native Americans.

'self-evident' was and is bullshit wherever it is used. It means 'you'll just have to accept what we say because we say it'.

BWAHAHAHA... still can't accept the fact England lost the war, ehhhh?

lmao. You seriously believe that God specifically ordains the right to bear arms? ... so do you still have that right if, for you, God doesn't exist?

God still exists, whether you believe or not. Pick up any rock, and tell me about its creation... and by extension, the creator.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Meanwhile, far leftists still have no plan brainstormed to get rid of guns.

"REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! FEAR OUR MORALITY!!!!"

 

[KimGordon67]

BWAHAHAHA... still can't accept the fact England lost the war, ehhhh?



God still exists, whether you believe or not. Pick up any rock, and tell me about its creation... and by extension, the creator.

For someone who doesn't want to talk about religion or politics, I'm pretty impressed by your ability to bring religion into a fundamentally political discussion.

As was discussed at length, and fairly thoroughly in another thread on this topic, things that are 'self evident' are notoriously contextual. And bringing God into the argument is basically forcing your belief (not to be confused with fact) onto others.

 

[coachdb18]

For someone who doesn't want to talk about religion or politics, I'm pretty impressed by your ability to bring religion into a fundamentally political discussion.

ummm. the topic isssss.... 'Most of our church family is gone'

As was discussed at length, and fairly thoroughly in another thread on this topic, things that are 'self evident' are notoriously contextual. And bringing God into the argument is basically forcing your belief (not to be confused with fact) onto others.

You're always welcome to explain how the rock came into existence...

 

[KimGordon67]

ummm. the topic isssss.... 'Most of our church family is gone'



You're always welcome to explain how the rock came into existence...

Your first point is just ridiculous - at no point until just now has the location of the shooting been part of either this discussion or the wider debate about gun control.

So does your god just automatically trump all the other gods in establishing 'self evident truths', or do the gods get together and delegate that stuff ... 'you get self evident truths; you get allocating virgins to martyrs; you can sort out reincarnation' etc.

 

[coachdb18]

Your first point is just ridiculous - at no point until just now has the location of the shooting been part of either this discussion or the wider debate about gun control.

So does your god just automatically trump all the other gods in establishing 'self evident truths', or do the gods get together and delegate that stuff ... 'you get self evident truths; you get allocating virgins to martyrs; you can sort out reincarnation' etc.

It's really immaterial what you call 'the creator', it's just something that the very existence of the rock defies you to explain 'the creation' and the existence of 'a creator'.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's really immaterial what you call 'the creator', it's just something that the very existence of the rock defies you to explain 'the creation' and the existence of 'a creator'.

So your god and the Muslim god have the same self-evident truths?

 

[coachdb18]

So your god and the Muslim god have the same self-evident truths?

Our concepts of what God actually is doesn't change what we'll find when we get there.. and you still haven't ventured any explanation for a question as seemingly simple as 'how did this rock come into existence'. Should be easy....

 

[KimGordon67]

Our concepts of what God actually is doesn't change what we'll find when we get there.. and you still haven't ventured any explanation for a question as seemingly simple as 'how did this rock come into existence'. Should be easy....

This discussion is about self evident truths inasmuch as they support your supposed pre-discursive 'right' to gun ownership. The existence or otherwise of god is a different discussion - feel free to start a thread! (You might want to consider amending your signature first though.)

So you're saying we don't know who or what god is, or which religion is right about that - or, indeed, if any of them are ... but you're utterly confident you know what god says is 'self evident'?

 

[coachdb18]

This discussion is about self evident truths inasmuch as they support your supposed pre-discursive 'right' to gun ownership. The existence or otherwise of god is a different discussion - feel free to start a thread! (You might want to consider amending your signature first though.)

So you're saying we don't know who or what god is, or which religion is right about that - or, indeed, if any of them are ... but you're utterly confident you know what god says is 'self evident'?

My preference is now, and has been for quite some time, desirous of avoiding political and religious discussions... obviously you don't stay abreast of changes anyway, and I made the current change to my present signature some time ago... I find that conversations concerning politics and religion are just unproductive exercises in expletives and talking past each other.. nobody listens and nobody is flexible enough to ever change here.. a battle of mutual intransigence. But that's not to say I won't engage... and thus, my 'new' sig....

 

[KimGordon67]

My preference is now, and has been for quite some time, desirous of avoiding political and religious discussions... obviously you don't stay abreast of changes anyway, and I made the current change to my present signature some time ago... I find that conversations concerning politics and religion are just unproductive exercises in expletives and talking past each other.. nobody listens and nobody is flexible enough to ever change here.. a battle of mutual intransigence. But that's not to say I won't engage... and thus, my 'new' sig....

lmao ... that's some interesting avoidance of the actual and pertinent question.

 

[coachdb18]

lmao ... that's some interesting avoidance of the actual and pertinent question.

Well, I'm a Christian, so by saying that I also am saying I believe we've had the benefit of personal contact with part of the trinity that is God....

In the same sense that a man can be a father, and at the same time a son, and possessing of a spirit, God has the spiritual trinity of father, son, and holy spirit. My question was simply at the most basic level of his existence as the creator .... and again I say, you can feel free to call him whatever you wish, so long as you acknowledge his existence as well.

 

[KimGordon67]

Well, I'm a Christian, so by saying that I also am saying I believe we've had the benefit of personal contact with part of the trinity that is God....

In the same sense that a man can be a father, and at the same time a son, and possessing of a spirit, God has the spiritual trinity of father, son, and holy spirit. My question was simply at the most basic level of his existence as the creator .... and again I say, you can feel free to call him whatever you wish, so long as you acknowledge his existence as well.

So your god trumps the others in terms of self evident truths? Because he's talked to you, or communicated your right to gun ownership to you in some other way?

 

[coachdb18]

So your god trumps the others in terms of self evident truths? Because he's talked to you, or communicated your right to gun ownership to you in some other way?

I realize from this that you'll never think anything more of God than a cell phone conversation from the sky, and I'd have to say it's far more than that, and far more complex. But we're venturing to a place you neither care to understand, nor have the capacity to open yourself up to the possibility... and there's where my point of not feeling discussing religion or politics is a worthwhile conversation to engage in.

 

[KimGordon67]

I realize from this that you'll never think anything more of God than a cell phone conversation from the sky, and I'd have to say it's far more than that, and far more complex. But we're venturing to a place you neither care to understand, nor have the capacity to open yourself up to the possibility... and there's where my point of not feeling discussing religion or politics is a worthwhile conversation come in.

So people with religion just 'know' what truths this ambiguously defined god says are self evident through some process that can't be explained, so the rest of us just have to trust y'all are getting it right?

Seems like a pretty shakey premise for a Constitution, don't you think?

 

[phrodeau]

Well, I'm a Christian, so by saying that I also am saying I believe we've had the benefit of personal contact with part of the trinity that is God....

In the same sense that a man can be a father, and at the same time a son, and possessing of a spirit, God has the spiritual trinity of father, son, and holy spirit. My question was simply at the most basic level of his existence as the creator .... and again I say, you can feel free to call him whatever you wish, so long as you acknowledge his existence as well.

Sounds like God must have high testosterone levels.

 

[Hypoxia]

Sounds like God must have high testosterone levels.

Lord {JHWH} managed to rape only one human woman, or so she said. "No no Yusef, I never cheated on you! Lord {JHWH} took me!"

Some folks here believe strongly in their god. That's nice. Their god tells them to shove their beliefs down the throats of others. That sucks.

Their god's word variously does and doesn't glorify murder, mass or otherwise. Don't murder, except when smashing an enemy's infants against the rocks (Psalm 137). As Col Chivington said, "Kill them all; nits make lice."

Their god protected the guy who fired on the shithead shooter but didn't protect the 26 victims. How many of those victims prayed to their god for life as they died? Sounds like that's a pretty undependable, even sadistic god. "But he has a plan!" Yeah. Suffer.

 

[KimGordon67]

I realize from this that you'll never think anything more of God than a cell phone conversation from the sky, and I'd have to say it's far more than that, and far more complex. But we're venturing to a place you neither care to understand, nor have the capacity to open yourself up to the possibility... and there's where my point of not feeling discussing religion or politics is a worthwhile conversation to engage in.

Also, you've yet again made a raft of assumptions about me. I don't disbelieve in a god - I'm fairly agnostic about the whole situation, because I personally don't feel there's definitive evidence one way or the other. I'm just proposing that, given what even you admit is a fairly diverse understandings of who/what god 'is', and that the different faiths seem to have some divergent views on what 'self evident truths' are (and, in fact, even Christian based religions have shifted in this respect over the centuries), we maybe really need to wonder if your understanding of what your version of god says (keeping in mind that you can demonstrate how this god says these things) might not be the best basis for 'Constitutional Rights'.

I've seen some fairly convincing arguments for the existence of pre-discursive natural rights. This is definitely not one of them.

 

[Hypoxia]

Well, I'm a Christian, so by saying that I also am saying I believe we've had the benefit of personal contact with part of the trinity that is God....

Voices in your head, then? And outsiders see the strained and unbelievable Xian concept of a 'trinity' as polytheism.

In the same sense that a man can be a father, and at the same time a son, and possessing of a spirit, God has the spiritual trinity of father, son, and holy spirit.

A model family consists of a father, mother, and child(ren). The Xian trinity, "god in three persons" (*), has a father, son, and... ghost, the ghost of the son's spiritual mother, whom the father killed in a domestic rage. And in this family, the son is also the father. That's almost as good as Heinlein's ALL YOU ZOMBIES.

(*) Persons are distinct entities. A pregnant woman is not two persons.

My question was simply at the most basic level of his existence as the creator ....

Genesis in Hebrew starts with 'elohim' (deities, plural) not 'el' (a single deity). "In the beginning, the gods formed heaven and earth." It was a team effort. The Decalogue notes the existence of other gods, who are not to be worshipped till Lord {JHWH} gets first share. ('Worship' then involved offering edible sacrifices. Yummy.)

 

[sr71plt]

Well, I'm a Christian,

You certainly can't evidence that by the garbage you post to Literotica.