My second story: 'The Christmas in July Luau' - feedback requested!

[Bramblethorn]

That was NotWise, not me. Those terms weren't so much a problem for me, for the reason you stated: their use establishes character. I liked the fact that the narrator/main character has an over-the-top sense of naughtiness. Take that away and it's a different story, and I don't believe it's my place to tell the author to write a different story.

Whoops, that'll learn me to post before breakfast!

 

[Bramblethorn]

The difference in being in a competition and publicizing work with no effect on anyone else's? No comparison whatsoever. Compared with folks who play the morality police, scheme with stalkers by PM off the board, and have the need to research their fellow authors to be nasty? About the same.

Personally, I think that when a newbie author is accused of being "tacky", it's useful context for them to know that their critic is a guy who didn't think it was "tacky" to use an alt account to give himself reviews like these:

"this author could write the phone book and make it both sexy and fresh and interesting"

"I search for and read everything I can find by this author, and I'd put this story in the upper reaches of an astonishingly broad and well-written collection... he's a master at providing us a large world of sensual experiences"

"This is the most imaginative, wide-ranging author I've found on this Web site... No one else I've found here can take me so far in geography, culture, space, and time--with fresh, inventive, interesting perspectives--as this author does."

But YMMV. Feel free to discuss via PM with all the friends you've made on these boards in your years here.

 

[KeithD]

As I noted already, there is a significant difference in what one does in competition with other authors and what one does in promotion of their own work.

There's also a significant difference in an author keeping to their own work and their own business and one who is a nosey parker who sticks their nose in what others do to run others down in relationship to themselves and who schemes with others to stalk. Bet the latter ones are engaged in a lot of nefarious comment and voting work themselves to run others down. They'd certainly have to be on the attack to watch someone's voluminous file close enough to know what's going on with comments. Probably a nasty piece of insecure work for this to mean so much to them.

 

[NotWise]

That was NotWise, not me. Those terms weren't so much a problem for me, for the reason you stated: their use establishes character. I liked the fact that the narrator/main character has an over-the-top sense of naughtiness. Take that away and it's a different story, and I don't believe it's my place to tell the author to write a different story.

They had a use for establishing character, and once that was done I don't think they served much purpose. Removing empty words wouldn't make the story different.

Rather than thinking the character was over-the-top naughty because she said fuck and shit all the time, it made me remember people I've known who did that -- especially a middle-aged rancher in nowhere Manitoba who couldn't put three words together without inserting some kind of profanity. I don't associate those words with naughtiness. I associate them with limited communication skills.

In that sense, the character's constant use of fuck and shit was dissonant, because she was also an engineering student at Hofstra.

 

[KeithD]

They had a use for establishing character, and once that was done I don't think they served much purpose. Removing empty words wouldn't make the story different.

Rather than thinking the character was over-the-top naughty because she said fuck and shit all the time, it made me remember people I've known who did that -- especially a middle-aged rancher in nowhere Manitoba who couldn't put three words together without inserting some kind of profanity. I don't associate those words with naughtiness. I associate them with limited communication skills.

In that sense, the character's constant use of fuck and shit was dissonant, because she was also an engineering student at Hofstra.

But it would establish that the character has limited communications skills, wouldn't it--and would be in that character as long as they were on the stage, wouldn't they? They wouldn't suddenly stop putting a "fuckin'" word in every time they paused for breath like some do in real life. They'd just continue doing that as long as they were in the story.

 

[MelissaBaby]

This stood out to me when I saw it and I don't agree with it even half. I'm simply shocked--shocked, I say--that "fuck" and "shit" would occur frequently in an erotica story.

Where this thread hit me, though, is that I think it's tacky for a contest author to heavily push their story on the discussion board during the voting of a contest in which a lot of other discussants of the board have their own entries. It sort of points to how lame the Literotica contests are as a level-playing field qualitative competition.

My entry has been getting 1-bombed all day today, there's a lot of problems with contests that rise far above the level of someone promoting their own work.

If someone promotes their work more than another author does and gets better results from their hustle, good for them.

 

[NotWise]

My entry has been getting 1-bombed all day today, there's a lot of problems with contests that rise far above the level of someone promoting their own work.

If someone promotes their work more than another author does and gets better results from their hustle, good for them.

I read the first few lines of the story. Now I have to go back and read the rest.

The treatment you're getting on EC probably has nothing to do with the contest. It's a tough crowd. There aren't many readers, but there are a lot of stories.

I've put quite a few stories there. My last one did okay, partly because of folks from AH who went there and voted. The one before that? Twenty-two votes and a score of 4.23. The results from EC seem fairly arbitrary. My twenty-two vote story was one of my six "Pixie" stories, which are all very similar, but the ratings are scattered across the board.

I think you can count on your score going up through sweeps and through readers picking it off the contest page instead of the EC hub.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

They had a use for establishing character, and once that was done I don't think they served much purpose. Removing empty words wouldn't make the story different.

Rather than thinking the character was over-the-top naughty because she said fuck and shit all the time, it made me remember people I've known who did that -- especially a middle-aged rancher in nowhere Manitoba who couldn't put three words together without inserting some kind of profanity. I don't associate those words with naughtiness. I associate them with limited communication skills.

In that sense, the character's constant use of fuck and shit was dissonant, because she was also an engineering student at Hofstra.

I'm not going to defend my own stuff to anyone, that's a black hole into nowhere. I just can't believe someone on Literotica is above curse words.

 

[KeithD]

My entry has been getting 1-bombed all day today, there's a lot of problems with contests that rise far above the level of someone promoting their own work.

Yep, I think I mentioned that Literotica contests don't stack up well as standard writing contests. The voting system sieve is one of the major problem areas with that. That doesn't mean that heavily promoting your work in the same venue that other contest authors are participating in is being very sensitive. After the contest is over is a good time to ask for your work to be hashed about, if you are interested in that.

As far as 1-bombing and the contests, as is noted each and every time on the contest discussion page, there's little to be said on the actual vote rating of a contest story here until the end when the sweeps are done. There's massive gaming going on in the interim. I had contest win come up from below 4.5 the night before once.

 

[Bramblethorn]

There's also a significant difference in an author keeping to their own work and their own business and one who is a nosey parker who sticks their nose in what others do to run others down

You dropped into a newbie author's feedback thread to tick her off for asking for feedback. Something which she has every right to do, something which she did openly and honestly - unlike your self-reviews - and something which doesn't even guarantee a boost to the score of her story, a story which is in any case unlikely to place because she's not writing to category expectations.

Had you not done so, I wouldn't have brought up your sockpuppet shenanigans. In case you haven't noticed, I only raise that issue when you're being a dick to other authors, in particular when you start throwing around accusations of "insecurity", "tackiness", and other such behaviours exemplified by your own fake reviews.

If you can abstain from doing that I will happily shut up about your self-reviews and let you pretend it never happened. I am not interested in winning an e-peen measurement contest with you; I just want you to stop being a jerk, in particular to new authors.

in relationship to themselves and who schemes with others to stalk. Bet the latter ones are engaged in a lot of nefarious comment and voting work themselves to run others down. They'd certainly have to be on the attack to watch someone's voluminous file close enough to know what's going on with comments.

I'm sure you've heard this before, but: sometimes it's not the size of your file that matters ;-)

Reading through a thousand-plus stories and checking the comments manually would take a long time. But only a schmuck would do it that way when there are vastly more efficient options available.

Probably a nasty piece of insecure work for this to mean so much to them.

I've seen your self-reviews. You're projecting here.

 

[NotWise]

I'm not going to defend my own stuff to anyone, that's a black hole into nowhere. I just can't believe someone on Literotica is above curse words.

You have a lot to learn.

 

[KeithD]

You dropped into a newbie author's feedback thread to tick her off for asking for feedback. Something which she has every right to do, something which she did openly and honestly - unlike your self-reviews - and something which doesn't even guarantee a boost to the score of her story, a story which is in any case unlikely to place because she's not writing to category expectations.

Had you not done so, I wouldn't have brought up your sockpuppet shenanigans. In case you haven't noticed, I only raise that issue when you're being a dick to other authors, in particular when you start throwing around accusations of "insecurity", "tackiness", and other such behaviours exemplified by your own fake reviews.

If you can abstain from doing that I will happily shut up about your self-reviews and let you pretend it never happened. I am not interested in winning an e-peen measurement contest with you; I just want you to stop being a jerk, in particular to new authors.



I'm sure you've heard this before, but: sometimes it's not the size of your file that matters ;-)

Reading through a thousand-plus stories and checking the comments manually would take a long time. But only a schmuck would do it that way when there are vastly more efficient options available.



I've seen your self-reviews. You're projecting here.

Speaking of being a dick to others . . . Congrats on being a shill for a stalker. I'm flattered that you all work so hard to monitor my 1,200 plus stories here to attack me. I'm fully aware that there are those who feel the urge, need, and self-righteousness to monitor and attack my file--which, of course, is why I sometimes take defensive measure there when the personal attacking is so evident.

I don't really know much about your file. Haven't read any of it; never will. Just guess producing so little yourself gives you plenty of time to stick your nose in what others are writing and doing with their files and waxing indignant.

Sorry, babe, I've been writing and publishing for decades. The gnats don't get to me. You can keep on with the priggish hallway monitoring as you like.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Speaking of being a dick to others . . . Congrats on being a shill for a stalker. I'm flattered that you all work so hard to monitor my 1,200 plus stories here to attack me. I'm fully aware that there are those who feel the urge, need, and self-righteousness to monitor and attack my file--which, of course, is why I sometimes take defensive measure there when the personal attacking is so evident.

I don't really know much about your file. Haven't read any of it; never will. Just guess producing so little yourself gives you plenty of time to stick your nose in what others are writing and doing with their files and waxing indignant.

Sorry, babe, I've been writing and publishing for decades. The gnats don't get to me. You can keep on with the priggish hallway monitoring as you like.

Keith just wondering if you can move this convo to PMs, I got your point about the contest. Thanks. I'm still trying to get whoever to comment on it, so.

 

[KeithD]

Keith just wondering if you can move this convo to PMs, I got your point about the contest. Thanks. I'm still trying to get whoever to comment on it, so.

This isn't my initiated conversation and I don't engage in PM backchanneling. I made one comment posting--that this sort of contest author-initiated detailed discussion of their contest entry on the board where other contest authors are participating and during the contest voting is, I think, bad form--and, at the same time, I noted that what someone else objected to in your story wasn't something I thought should be objected to.

You'll have to talk to someone else about what transpired from there. I won't be engaging in PM backchanneling on that or anything else attacking or scheming against a site author, though. Bring that up with Bramblethorn and friend.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Sorry for dropping in like this.

The only reason Keith gets away with crap like this is because enough other people still engage with him like he's a decent human being when he's not pushing around new authors. You were all new once too. Those of you watching and lurking should consider putting him on your ignore list where he belongs.

This is who he is.

 

[KeithD]

Ah, the self-proclaimed critique guru who doesn't like that I don't buy her amateur "expert" schtick arrives from out of left field to pile on.

And, as far as attacking a new author is concerned, she has noted she takes my point on contests and I'm not among those who have dumped on her story. I'd say it's AWD who is taking advantage of a new author to pursue her nasty agenda.

 

[AlinaX]

I've tried twice now to read the story, and have failed even to get past the first page. For what it's worth:

1. Maybe just tell the story? Telling the telling of the story with a prologue and insert paragraphs ("This is a comment I'm adding during my last once-over of this piece." - because why? If you're editing it, edit it.) is ultimately a distraction.

2. All the sort-of implied erotica pre-18 (internet porn, motel sex intent, discussion of sex work) skirts the threshold of what's permissible on Literotica so closely that again it's a distraction.

3. The description of growing up in New Jersey feels meandering and repetitive, and really could be tightened.

4. The mom's 'inoperable' cancer: Odd choice of word, really, since it's being used to imply untreatable. Also, the later reference to smoking: if your mom died of cancer, wouldn't this impact a decision to start smoking?

5. The whole 'I guess I better describe my awesome bod' or whatever. Just don't.

6. Oh dear god. Glamorising a brothel with Eastern European / Ukrainian girls. This just screams human trafficking.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

I've tried twice now to read the story, and have failed even to get past the first page. For what it's worth:

1. Maybe just tell the story? Telling the telling of the story with a prologue and insert paragraphs ("This is a comment I'm adding during my last once-over of this piece." - because why? If you're editing it, edit it.) is ultimately a distraction.

2. All the sort-of implied erotica pre-18 (internet porn, motel sex intent, discussion of sex work) skirts the threshold of what's permissible on Literotica so closely that again it's a distraction.

3. The description of growing up in New Jersey feels meandering and repetitive, and really could be tightened.

4. The mom's 'inoperable' cancer: Odd choice of word, really, since it's being used to imply untreatable. Also, the later reference to smoking: if your mom died of cancer, wouldn't this impact a decision to start smoking?

5. The whole 'I guess I better describe my awesome bod' or whatever. Just don't.

6. Oh dear god. Glamorising a brothel with Eastern European / Ukrainian girls. This just screams human trafficking.

All I can say is... sincerely, thanks for trying twice! It's clear this story isn't at all your taste, and you tried twice. That's cool. I won't defend any of my story choices, I just think we're on different wavelengths. Sorry you hated it!

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't have an issue with someone posting a contest story in feedback, its been done before. I suppose there's a case to be made its a slight advantage over people who just put their story up and and don't push it, but I doubt its that much.

I do have an issue with the OP begging for feedback in every thread she posts in-most recently favorite incest story thread-and she all but stalked AwkwardMD to get a review.

I was going to check out some of this story, enough to get a feel for it, but her self congratulatory author's note calling her first taboo story an epic and telling everyone she nailed it...no thanks.

Some confidence and swag is fine, in fact its necessary to a degree, but telling the reader how good your own story is...

Now I'll use the word tacky.

 

[AlinaX]

All I can say is... sincerely, thanks for trying twice! It's clear this story isn't at all your taste, and you tried twice. That's cool. I won't defend any of my story choices, I just think we're on different wavelengths. Sorry you hated it!

It's not that telling the telling is necessarily wrong, but it should serve a purpose. Based purely on the comments in this thread, suggesting it's almost two separate-but-connected stories, it might have been interesting to have the narrator setting out journal-style to write about how she became a sex worker, with casual asides about what's currently going on in her life, but the asides gradually take over the story in a grand narrative twist.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

I don't have an issue with someone posting a contest story in feedback, its been done before. I suppose there's a case to be made its a slight advantage over people who just put their story up and and don't push it, but I doubt its that much.

I do have an issue with the OP begging for feedback in every thread she posts in-most recently favorite incest story thread-and she all but stalked AwkwardMD to get a review.

I was going to check out some of this story, enough to get a feel for it, but her self congratulatory author's note calling her first taboo story an epic and telling everyone she nailed it...no thanks.

Some confidence and swag is fine, in fact its necessary to a degree, but telling the reader how good your own story is...

Now I'll use the word tacky.

Touche, sir. I believe I was just very excited. I haven't written much before in my life, and I'm just discovering it. It's just really my own mania over the joy of writing, that I didn't know about before. That will die down.

I honestly didn't realize until this thread how wildly important and divisive the contests were. That's my bad. Won't make that mistake again.

Can't apologize for being proud of my own work, though. I thought I did nail what I was going for, not nail what everyone was going for. It's that thing where you have this idea, and then you spend countless hours trying to get that idea on the page, and then you read back through and realize yes, you got the idea down--that kind of nailed it. It's a great feeling, and I'm sure it's something we've all experienced.

But yeah, whoa. My bad.

 

[AlinaX]

The really great thing about being an author is when you write something amazing and no one can be bothered to comment, so you sit there heartbroken wondering whether you should beg for attention because surely someone can understand the beauty of what you've poured your heart and soul into...

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

The really great thing about being an author is when you write something amazing and no one can be bothered to comment, so you sit there heartbroken wondering whether you should beg for attention because surely someone can understand the beauty of what you've poured your heart and soul into...

Yeah I don't know. It was a moment for me. Won't do it again! Haha it's not like I can get my friends in real life to check it out! I see everyone's point, going behind the shed now to get my punishment.

Actually I don't have a shed, we have all that stuff on the back porch. I need a shed. That's my takeaway from this.

 

[AlinaX]

There's a story in that...

 

[8letters]

8letters has given some great advice for category-first authors, but I'm pretty sure you're a story-first kind of writer. Your scores will take a hit for that

I view this much differently. Holly has posted her erotic fantasy to LitE and it's done well. There's definitely an audience for that kind of story. It kind of reminds of silksockingslover's stories, which don't get the greatest ratings but Jasmine is hands-down the most popular author on this site.

Let me digress for a moment. I am very much a plotter and to me, writing is like downhill slalom skiing. Before I start writing, all map out all the essential scenes in my head - the gates - and I make up the connections to them - the approaches - as I write. So I write a "gate", then start writing my approach to the next "gate".

So what kind of advice is Holly looking for? If what Holly wants to do is to get a better rating on her sex fantasies she publishes on LitE, there's little I can offer. Her style is so different than mine. I'm sure an expert wordsmith could help her tighten her prose, but I'm not an expert wordsmith.

If on the other hand, she wants advice on how to take her sex fantasies and tweak them to get more LitE candy (higher rating, more views, etc.), then I think I can give her some good advice. I think her essential scenes are for the most part fine. It's the approaches that need to be done differently if the story is going to get more LitE candy. SimonDoom has already given lots of good suggestions.

From Holly's responses, she wants to publish her sex fantasies. That's fine. They'll do very well. There's definitely an audience for them.

I'm not very familiar with I/T but from forum discussions, I get the impression the reader expectations are a mite rigid there.

I/T has a huge readership, and each of them bring their own likes/dislikes. I view them as each having a list of story attributes with different levels of importance and some level of like/dislike. One of things that I think is highly important and highly liked to a lot of I/T readers is hot sex between two family members where both partners are loving getting down and dirty. I think Holly did a really good job of writing that, and that's how her writing reminds of silksockingslover. Colleen comes across as someone who loves hot sex.

But what is probably the most important attribute of most I/T readers is for the story to be an old-fashion romance, where the two main characters talk, flirt, develop feelings for each other, fall in love, have sex, and then walk off hand-in-hand to the sunset. With the slight twist from the old-fashion romance in that the two main characters are blood relatives. My stories get top ratings because I provide that type of romance. Holly didn't provide that in her story. At the end, she doesn't have hot sex with Glen, the guy she's fallen in love who just so happens to be her dad. She instead creates her version of the Christmas luau sex show with her dad, who is more of a role than a person. If you look at SimonDoom's suggestions, you'll see they are about how to create a romantic relationship with Glen.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Holly's ending. There's an audience for that kind of thing. If she wants to keep writing sex fantasies like "Luau", the more power to her.

Note: I quoted just a small part of a long, thoughtful post from Bramblethorn under the assumption that people who are reading this have read it. If you've not read her full post, you should read it to get the full context of what she was saying.