New toplists

[Kelliezgirl]

I haven't thought about this before, but this is worth thinking about. Why should your chapter 1 of a 30 chapter story be able to appear on a toplist. Finish the thing and when it's done you're eligible.

From the standpoint of the reader, this makes some sense.

Why discourage a long running series?
Home for Horny Monstergirls Chapter 136 got 27k views... while the fact that the series basically owns the non-human top list is annoying, it shouldn't be excluded because the author is still writing.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why discourage a long running series?
Home for Horny Monstergirls Chapter 136 got 27k views... while the fact that the series basically owns the non-human top list is annoying, it shouldn't be excluded because the author is still writing.

Fair point.

We're spitballing. I'm not sure what the right answer is, although I think the current way that multi-chaptered stories are handled on toplists makes no sense at all.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Fair point.

We're spitballing. I'm not sure what the right answer is, although I think the current way that multi-chaptered stories are handled on toplists makes no sense at all.

I'd just like to see them treated as a single story, with their average score.
Is it perfect? Nope. But we're never all going to agree on perfect.
And it would be a massive improvement over what we have now.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Why discourage a long running series?
Home for Horny Monstergirls Chapter 136 got 27k views... while the fact that the series basically owns the non-human top list is annoying, it shouldn't be excluded because the author is still writing.

Because there is no guarantee that the story will ever be finished.

Why not allow any story that receives a five rating as its first score to earn a red H? Why not let chapters or parts be entered into contests?

There are eligibility rules for many things on this site that we all have to deal with. Personally, I don't think that a story being completely finished in order to be eligible for a top list is a bad thing. It's an incentive to keep writing and to finish what you started.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Because there is no guarantee that the story will ever be finished.

Why not allow any story that receives a five rating as its first score to earn a red H? Why not let chapters or parts be entered into contests?

There are eligibility rules for many things on this site that we all have to deal with. Personally, I don't think that a story being completely finished in order to be eligible for a top list is a bad thing. It's an incentive to keep writing and to finish what you started.

Should we not let a TV series win an Emmy until after the final episode? It's not "finished"?

I get that some people are really bothered by an unfinished series, but its obvious that many aren't.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Should we not let a TV series win an Emmy until after the final episode? It's not "finished"?

I get that some people are really bothered by an unfinished series, but its obvious that many aren't.

By all means, give a single episode a red H (their Emmy). That doesn't make it or the series the "best of all time" as implied by a top list standing.

It's not a matter of being bothered, its a matter of attempting to find parity in the work produced and equity in how that work is recognized.

To me, it's equivalent to awarding a restaurant a Michelin star because the dressing on their salad was excellent. Give us the whole meal to judge before being eligible for that recognition.

I will add that the confusion on Literotica caused by treating an episodic series the same as a serialized chapter story will remain a factor in distinguishing what would be eligible and what wouldn't. As @SimonDoom said, we're all just spitballing here.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

By all means, give a single episode a red H (their Emmy). That doesn't make it or the series the "best of all time" as implied by a top list standing.

It's not a matter of being bothered, its a matter of attempting to find parity in the work produced and equity in how that work is recognized.

To me, it's equivalent to awarding a restaurant a Michelin star because the dressing on their salad was excellent. Give us the whole meal to judge before being eligible for that recognition.

I will add that the confusion on Literotica caused by treating an episodic series the same as a serialized chapter story will remain a factor in distinguishing what would be eligible and what wouldn't. As @SimonDoom said, we're all just spitballing here.

I think using an average rating for the series so far makes it something different than your Michelin Star for salad example.

We're rating what we've seen, and people like it..

But yeah... just spit balling...

 

[THBGato]

Mmmm, but as has been said some series are basically standalone stories with reoccurring characters and setting, much like most episodes of, say, House or CSI. And, occasionally, one of those episodes is brilliant and a cut above the rest - surely it deserves recognition in its own right?
There's a couple of series I can see on the Lesbian toplist that are like that.

True, there are others that are one story arc but run to 20+ chapters, but I don't get the sense writers are doing that cynically. And if they published as one submission we'd be talking about 300,000 word plus pieces...

 

[Britva415]

Should we not let a TV series win an Emmy until after the final episode? It's not "finished"?

Too bad long-ass, perpetually unfinished Lit story series aren't separated into "seasons!"

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Mmmm, but as has been said some series are basically standalone stories with reoccurring characters and setting, much like most episodes of, say, House or CSI. And, occasionally, one of those episodes is brilliant and a cut above the rest - surely it deserves recognition in its own right?

As I mentioned, the confusing way in which this site treats episodic series the same as serialized chapters would be a factor in establishing parity and equality.

I know that I would certainly want the completed episodes in my published series to be eligible. On the other hand, one 5K single chapter in a 300K serially published unfinished story should not be judged the same as my single 300K completed story. They are simply not the same.

 

[THBGato]

Too bad long-ass, perpetually unfinished Lit story series aren't separated into "seasons!"

I mean, you can. I sort of do: most of my stories have recurring characters but span 25 years, so exist in a continuity. Yet I didn't publish them as a series, because you don't need to read them in order to get what's going on.

 

[RoyalAuthor]

I have decided, after reviewing the all time erotic couplings list and finding seven of my stories (chapters from two serials and a standalone story) in the top 50, that I am very much in favor of the new lists.

Sure, I could debate pros and cons for hours, and whether chapters should be allowed (one of those serials is completed and the other is a sequel but stands separate), but I benefited, so I don't want to.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I disagree with average series score being equivalent to a score on a stand alone story. Scores on series invariably increase as the series progresses, raising the 'average' from a series in a way that doesn't happen with a stand alone

Make it a weighted average - the later chapters also have less views / votes (unless the work is exceptionally addictive).

 

[RejectReality]

What's actually in the works:

Multi-chapter stories will appear only once on any category toplist. They will be ranked according to the highest score with the minimum number of votes that would appear in that category, and be presented as a series card that shows info about the full series rather than any of the individual parts. ( Average score, number of parts, completion status, series description, etc. )

Stories that span multiple categories will appear in each category, but only once per category. They will be ranked according to the highest score of a chapter with the minimum number of votes in that category. So it may show ranked with the 4.9s in one category, and 4.86s in another. Or, it may show with the 4.9s in one category and not at all in the other if the scores/vote totals of chapters within that category are not high enough to place.

The all-time toplist will only display a series once, ranked according to the highest scoring chapter with the minimum number of votes, regardless of category.

A series will appear only once in the views toplist, ranked according to the highest views for a chapter regardless of category.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

What's actually in the works:

Multi-chapter stories will appear only once on any category toplist. They will be ranked according to the highest score with the minimum number of votes that would appear in that category, and be presented as a series card that shows info about the full series rather than any of the individual parts. ( Average score, number of parts, completion status, series description, etc. )

Stories that span multiple categories will appear in each category, but only once per category. They will be ranked according to the highest score of a chapter with the minimum number of votes in that category. So it may show ranked with the 4.9s in one category, and 4.86s in another. Or, it may show with the 4.9s in one category and not at all in the other if the scores/vote totals of chapters within that category are not high enough to place.

The all-time toplist will only display a series once, ranked according to the highest scoring chapter with the minimum number of votes, regardless of category.

A series will appear only once in the views toplist, ranked according to the highest views for a chapter regardless of category.

That makes sense. I rather like it.

 

[Rustyoznail]

That makes sense. I rather like it.

Yep, it does. But when?

 

[RejectReality]

Yep, it does. But when?

Just like anything else, it's going to take time. Laurel showed me the in-progress a while back during some particularly heated complaints about it here, because I've been advocating for this change to the toplist and contests for years. Some of the suggestions I've made have already been implemented. ( such as the completion marker ) It's an incremental thing.

Still pushing to get a bright line drawn between chapter stories and actual series of complete but connected stories, because they're very different things.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Just like anything else, it's going to take time. Laurel showed me the in-progress a while back during some particularly heated complaints about it here, because I've been advocating for this change to the toplist and contests for years. Some of the suggestions I've made have already been implemented. ( such as the completion marker ) It's an incremental thing.

Good to know, thanks.

Still pushing to get a bright line drawn between chapter stories and actual series of complete but connected stories, because they're very different things.

Agree, they're different, but you can get sub-series within a broader collection of connected stories - I do that quite a lot myself, now that the Series Manual function exists - so how would the system know that?

 

[RejectReality]

Good to know, thanks.

Agree, they're different, but you can get sub-series within a broader collection of connected stories - I do that quite a lot myself, now that the Series Manual function exists - so how would the system know that?

What I'm trying to get is a simple user-directed designation, which would then be policed for bad actors by other users via reports, the way virtually everything else is done on Lit.

What type of series is this?
() Chapter Story
() Connected Stories

That bit could then be used to allow us to group stories on our profiles without subjecting complete stories that just happen to share a setting/characters/timeline/etc. to the restrictions that chaptered stories have, such as in the toplists. Without that, grouping stories on your profile produces negative outcomes once the changes to toplists ( and should monthly/annual contests ever come back, those as well ) go into effect. You lose exposure by grouping connected stories together under those conditions absent the bit.

 

[crookedletter]

I try not to dwell too much on these things. But I did have one story bobbing up and down its category’s top list, especially the 12 month one, since it was published last August. I got a kick out of seeing it occasionally break into the top ranks, though it often didn’t last.

Now it seems to have vanished from the lists entirely, despite its rating still being well within range. I’m not sure what to make of that…

 

[TheLobster]

Still pushing to get a bright line drawn between chapter stories and actual series of complete but connected stories, because they're very different things.

This absolutely has to be done. Otherwise, the proposed system will be a great incentive to create fake “series” under flimsy excuses, then cram as many of one’s stories that wouldn’t have a chance to make it onto a toplist along with the story that did make it.

 

[RejectReality]

This absolutely has to be done. Otherwise, the proposed system will be a great incentive to create fake “series” under flimsy excuses, then cram as many of one’s stories that wouldn’t have a chance to make it onto a toplist along with the story that did make it.

Or, to stick a story in there in a high-scoring category that gives you an advantage with the new date-weighed toplists. There's always going to be a way to manipulate things, but this makes a few of them more difficult.

Mainly, it's because there's a distinct difference between a series and a chapter story, though. Having a marker would eventually clue readers in that they're not committing to a 10 part series, but rather reading one story out of 10 that share some commonalities. You can do this in the series description, but having that marker displayed as part of the series card would make it more accessible.

You ideally also wouldn't have to mark the series complete every time you add a new story, or leave it listed as "incomplete" until you run out of story ideas for it, which would eventually lead to readers not ignoring story groupings thinking they're an incomplete chapter story when they're nothing of the sort.

 

[onehitwanda]

I used the toplists when I first started reading Lit* back in the age of Brontosaurus. It gave me a feel for the authors I liked, the genres I liked, and from there a fan-out to nearest neighbours etc...

these days, I go via the opinions of a couple of other trusted writers and readers. I don't have time to spare for stuff that won't grab me.

If the change gives new writers more exposure, bravo. From my view, though, the lists on the landing page seem fairly static, so I'm not convinced they're working correctly. The inner engineer would love to get her grubby little mitts on the database views and some test harnesses and a nice statistical modelling package...

 

[Bazzle]

One day I will write something worthy of a top list

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Just like anything else, it's going to take time. Laurel showed me the in-progress a while back during some particularly heated complaints about it here, because I've been advocating for this change to the toplist and contests for years. Some of the suggestions I've made have already been implemented. ( such as the completion marker ) It's an incremental thing.

Still pushing to get a bright line drawn between chapter stories and actual series of complete but connected stories, because they're very different things.

So I did remember right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could swear that you mentioned those changes being in the works like two or even three years ago?