Oh Hell No

[KingOrfeo]

Paul Krugman writes:

For generations, Republicans have impugned their opponents’ patriotism. During the Cold War, they claimed that Democrats were soft on Communism; after 9/11, that they were soft on terrorism.

But now we have what may be the real thing: circumstantial evidence that a hostile foreign power may have colluded with a U.S. presidential campaign, and may retain undue influence at the highest levels of our government. And all those self-proclaimed patriots have gone silent, or worse.

Just to be clear, we don’t know for sure that top Trump officials, and maybe even Trump himself, are Russian puppets. But the evidence is obviously enough to take seriously — just think about the fact that Michael Flynn stayed on as national security adviser for weeks after Justice Department officials warned that he was compromised, and was fired only when the story broke in the press.

And we know how to resolve the remaining uncertainty: independent investigations conducted by officials with strong legal powers, insulated from partisan political influence.

So here’s where we stood as of Thursday evening: 138 Democrats and independents had called for the appointment of a special prosecutor; just one Republican had joined that call. Another 84 Democrats had called for an independent investigation, joined by only six Republicans.

At this point, in other words, almost an entire party appears to have decided that potential treason in the cause of tax cuts for the wealthy is no vice. And that’s barely hyperbole.

How did a whole party become so, well, un-American? For this story now goes far beyond Trump.

In some ways conservatism is returning to its roots. Much has been made of Trump’s revival of the term “America First,” the name of a movement opposed to U.S. intervention in World War II. What isn’t often mentioned is that many of the most prominent America-firsters weren’t just isolationists, they were actively sympathetic to foreign dictators; there’s a more or less straight line from Charles Lindbergh proudly wearing the medal he received from Hermann Göring to Trump’s cordial relations with Rodrigo Duterte, the literally murderous president of the Philippines.

But the more proximate issue is the transformation of the Republican Party, which bears little if any resemblance to the institution it used to be, say during the Watergate hearings of the 1970s. Back then, Republican members of Congress were citizens first, partisans second. But today’s G.O.P. is more like a radical, anti-democratic insurgency than a conventional political party.

The political analysts Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein have been trying to explain this transformation for years, fighting an uphill battle against the false equivalence that still dominates punditry. As they note, the G.O.P. hasn’t just become “ideologically extreme”; it is “dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

So it’s naïve to expect Republicans to join forces with Democrats to get to the bottom of the Russia scandal — even if that scandal may strike at the very roots of our national security. Today’s Republicans just don’t cooperate with Democrats, period. They’d rather work with Vladimir Putin.

In fact, some of them probably did.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Nobody is claiming Obama personally planted a wiretap, but the FBI does admit to tapping in on Trump Tower as part of an investigation of suspected Russian criminals. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story-fbi-wiretap-russians-trump-tower/story?id=46266198

Now, tell me about the circumstantial evidence against Trump, Senator McCarthy.

One person - Adam Schiff, a Dem. member of Congress - claims there is "circumstantial evidence" against Trump. His claims are included in leftist places, such as Huff Post. Nobody else, not even higher ranking members of his own party says anything in agreement with him.

Trump accused Obama of wire tapping him. He id not back up this foolish statement with any evidence at all. He doubled down on stupid as he always does and went looking for evidence.

As far as the circumstantial evidence that Trump has an unhealthy and probable illegal ties to Russia, you don't me to sight that evidence. You know what it is. You pay attention to the news. You read the facebook posts. Just look at the pictures of Trump with various world leaders.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

There are plenty of reasons to have an inquiry, but even if they were spelled out step by step to Box, they would not penetrate his empty head.

Trump accused Obama of wire tapping him. He id not back up this foolish statement with any evidence at all. He doubled down on stupid as he always does and went looking for evidence.

As far as the circumstantial evidence that Trump has an unhealthy and probable illegal ties to Russia, you don't me to sight that evidence. You know what it is. You pay attention to the news. You read the facebook posts. Just look at the pictures of Trump with various world leaders.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Did Trump say Obama had tapped his phone? Or did he say the phones at Trump Tower were tapped? Either way, he is obviously not accusing Obama of personally doing thee dirty work, but of having his minions do it. It makes a difference, because there was a wiretap at the Trump Tower. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story-fbi-wiretap-russians-trump-tower/story?id=46266198

As for collusion between Trump and the Russians, I have never seen or heard any evidence there was any. Has anybody else actually seen or heard anything reliable? I have read of Dems, such as Sen. Feinstein saying there is no evidence of any.

I have read of communication between Trump and Russian officials, and have read of Hillary having such communication also. Apparently, this is a normal thing, for a presidential candidate to communicate with ambassadors and others from major countries.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Like I said: stupid.

Did you read your own article?

It says there was a (legal) wiretap of Russians within Trump Tower (hardly a surprise; a lot of them live there) between 2011 and 2013.

It does not say Trump himself was wiretapped. It does not say Trump was surveilled.

Trump did not announce he was going to run for Pres until June 2015, two years after that wiretap ended. In fact, in 2011, the year the wiretap on the RUSSIANS began, he declared that he would NOT run for office.


And yes, he did claim that OBAMA had his wires tapped:

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found.

Just before the victory. That would be October/November 2016. Three years after the "tap" you cite.

Did Trump say Obama had tapped his phone? Or did he say the phones at Trump Tower were tapped? Either way, he is obviously not accusing Obama of personally doing thee dirty work, but of having his minions do it. It makes a difference, because there was a wiretap at the Trump Tower. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story-fbi-wiretap-russians-trump-tower/story?id=46266198

As for collusion between Trump and the Russians, I have never seen or heard any evidence there was any. Has anybody else actually seen or heard anything reliable? I have read of Dems, such as Sen. Feinstein saying there is no evidence of any.

I have read of communication between Trump and Russian officials, and have read of Hillary having such communication also. Apparently, this is a normal thing, for a presidential candidate to communicate with ambassadors and others from major countries.

 

[sr71plt]

Did Trump say Obama had tapped his phone?

Yes, Box, Trump charged that Obama personally directed that Trump's phone be tapped. That was covered over and over again at the time--the tweet was constantly replayed in the media. You're being an idiot again. No, I won't cite it for you, because you are being an idiot to pretend it didn't happen and wasting time on you is just that--wasting time.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Mr Trump had tweeted: "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October...

 

[phrodeau]

Technically, every phone in Trump Tower belongs to Donald Trump, even the lobby pay phone.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Seems to me that Trump/Russia has about the same amount of evidence as Trump/bugging. Which is to say, none at all.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I believe there was some sort of surveillance on the Trump Tower, and Trump associates in the course of the Trump administration/Russia connection. Trump does/did have some slightly shady folk in his entourage with Russian connections. Trump himself is slightly shady in a few of his business dealings.

You want squeaky clean POTUS candidates don't go for multi-millionaire real estate developers or ex-high ranking politicians. Get yourself some backbencher senator out of Illinois that no one outside Illinois has heard about. There is/was your outsider to try shake things up.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I believe there was some sort of surveillance on the Trump Tower, and Trump associates in the course of the Trump administration/Russia connection. Trump does/did have some slightly shady folk in his entourage with Russian connections. Trump himself is slightly shady in a few of his business dealings.

You want squeaky clean POTUS candidates don't go for multi-millionaire real estate developers or ex-high ranking politicians. Get yourself some backbencher senator out of Illinois that no one outside Illinois has heard about. There is/was your outsider to try shake things up.

In his business dealings, Trump went beyond shady to outright crooked. I have always disliked him, but he is the only POTUS we have, so we should learn to live with that.

I believe I first read talk about impeachment during his inauguration, which was ridiculous.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Seems to me that Trump/Russia has about the same amount of evidence as Trump/bugging. Which is to say, none at all.

Are you conceding their point?! You realize that makes you a stalker sex offender who thinks they're in a relationship with liberals, right?

YOU FREAK!!!

 

[Chris_Michael]

In his business dealings, Trump went beyond shady to outright crooked. I have always disliked him, but he is the only POTUS we have, so we should learn to live with that.

I believe I first read talk about impeachment during his inauguration, which was ridiculous.

No, you voted for him. So, you MUST agree that he is just, correct, and pure in all his actions. Your vote means that you believe this man's every word.

There is no room for free thinking here in this country! *cracks whip*