One-star trolls

[Voboy]

This post, PSG, just acknowledging the problem is real, is most of what I think most people want from the other writers on this topic.

There's a bottom line to everything, though, and on this topic it goes like so:

"Do you run the site? No? Well, the people who do run the site have heard SCORES of times that there are 'problems with the rating systems,' and have chosen to do absolutely nothing about it."

What does that tell you?

Some of us, frankly, do not bother whining. That doesn't mean we don't acknowledge the system ain't perfect: it just means we choose to put our energies into things we can control, instead of complaining endlessly about things we cannot.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This post, PSG, just acknowledging the problem is real, is most of what I think most people want from the other writers on this topic. Even fairly new writers like myself realize Lit ain't going to change, but we want to share our frustrations and have some recognition that it's not just us, alone, who is feeling the pain. Being told to get tough or denying it's a problem feels like gaslighting when we know people are 1-staring stories they haven't even read.

When did I deny that targeted downvotes are a problem? Of course they are a problem. They are a problem that can be improved but never solved. This is the asshat internet after all.

I have a lot of detractors here and many straight up haters here. Despite this, the most literary minds here would likely all agree, even if they do not care for the content of my stories, that my prose and story telling skills are in the 90th percentile and up compared to the rest of the litverse. Yet, none of my ten stories score anywhere near a Red H. This is just one small example of how the scores do not reflect the quality of writing on lit. Is that an issue? You decide. It certainly keeps the vast majority of random readers from ever clicking on my stories as they see a profile with zero Red Hs as a sign of shit.

I have had someone on this forum tell me straight up to my (virtual) face "Well I just checked your profile and you don't have any Red Hs and I have several, so obviously I'm a better writer." Do I care? I can tell you that I haven't shed a single tear.

You get downvoted. First, not all downvotes are trolls. You can get a legit 1. Don't let your ego fool you. But then sometimes you have been obviously targeted, like when ALL of your stories get exactly 1 new vote and all go down, within a few minutes, or when your story goes from 4.6 / 20 votes down to 1.8 / 50 votes in one day.

These are my options:

1 ~ suck it up and keep writing because I love to write and put my stuff out there

2 ~ leave lit, seriously, take my quill and go home (ha-rumpff)

3 ~ cry and bitch that the site isn't protecting my feelings

Option 3 is the only option that won't solve a damn thing. From time to time we get people here who do this. The site isn't waving their magic wand to make people vote 'properly' - boo fucking hoo! Well, they can hold their breath and pout, toss their toys out of the pram, and see where it gets them, or they can try option 1 or 2.

In the meantime, it's okay to discuss alternative ideas as we often do, but when we see this:

Allowing anons to read and comment is one thing, but why let them vote? Those who consistently rate one-star should be banned.

No offense, but you don't seem like the sensitive type to lose sleep over ratings.

There's an issue with one specific category whose poisonous arrows reach far.

I can feel the pain of those who dared to be exposed to LW and see their entire series affected; others apparently cannot.

Obviously, this is all about the writer's feelings getting hurt, and that literotica admin should be coddling them. Well in this case, the problem lies much more with the writer's attitude than the site.

Yes it would be nice if lit had a better system - and there are several good ideas put forth in this forum on a regular basis that would not solve but certainly greatly improve the system - but lit is not changing any time soon as far as we can tell. So, option 1, option 2 or option 3? The first two will get you somewhere. Option 3 gets no one anywhere.

 

[PrivateFirstClass]

Some of us, frankly, do not bother whining. That doesn't mean we don't acknowledge the system ain't perfect: it just means we choose to put our energies into things we can control, instead of complaining endlessly about things we cannot.

But you're whining about people whining. Same game, different color uniform.

Actually, it's a far worse game, because unlike people complaining about things happening directly to their creative works, you're complaining about something that doesn't imapct you and that you could easily ignore.

 

[PrivateFirstClass]

When did I deny that targeted downvotes are a problem? Of course they are a problem. They are a problem that can be improved but never solved. This is the asshat internet after all.

I have a lot of detractors here and many straight up haters here. Despite this, the most literary minds here would likely all agree, even if they do not care for the content of my stories, that my prose and story telling skills are in the 90th percentile and up compared to the rest of the litverse. Yet, none of my ten stories score anywhere near a Red H. This is just one small example of how the scores do not reflect the quality of writing on lit. Is that an issue? You decide. It certainly keeps the vast majority of random readers from ever clicking on my stories as they see a profile with zero Red Hs as a sign of shit.

I have had someone on this forum tell me straight up to my (virtual) face "Well I just checked your profile and you don't have any Red Hs and I have several, so obviously I'm a better writer." Do I care? I can tell you that I haven't shed a single tear.

You get downvoted. First, not all downvotes are trolls. You can get a legit 1. Don't let your ego fool you. But then sometimes you have been obviously targeted, like when ALL of your stories get exactly 1 new vote and all go down, within a few minutes, or when your story goes from 4.6 / 20 votes down to 1.8 / 50 votes in one day.

These are my options:

1 ~ suck it up and keep writing because I love to write and put my stuff out there

2 ~ leave lit, seriously, take my quill and go home (ha-rumpff)

3 ~ cry and bitch that the site isn't protecting my feelings

Option 3 is the only option that won't solve a damn thing. From time to time we get people here who do this. The site isn't waving their magic wand to make people vote 'properly' - boo fucking hoo! Well, they can hold their breath and pout, toss their toys out of the pram, and see where it gets them, or they can try option 1 or 2.

In the meantime, it's okay to discuss alternative ideas as we often do, but when we see this:





Obviously, this is all about the writer's feelings getting hurt, and that literotica admin should be coddling them. Well in this case, the problem lies much more with the writer's attitude than the site.

Yes it would be nice if lit had a better system - and there are several good ideas put forth in this forum on a regular basis that would not solve but certainly greatly improve the system - but lit is not changing any time soon as far as we can tell. So, option 1, option 2 or option 3? The first two will get you somewhere. Option 3 gets no one anywhere.

For whatever reason, waking up today and seeing all of my stories getting 1-starred after posting a new chapter (the first one put in the LW genre) has stuck in my craw all day and made me pissy. Which is one me (although, seriously, not a good way for a site that relies on free labor to encourage more free labor).

But given your 3 options, why are you continuing to comment in threads like this? The system sucks for many people, a significant subset of those people come to forums to vent or hoping to see change, and that's not going to change. As per my point to Voboy, what do you get out of telling people not to complain? You surely know your words won't change anything. (And, yes, I would like to figure out why I'm bothering to respond!)

 

[pink_silk_glove]

For whatever reason, waking up today and seeing all of my stories getting 1-starred after posting a new chapter (the first one put in the LW genre) has stuck in my craw all day and made me pissy. Which is one me (although, seriously, not a good way for a site that relies on free labor to encourage more free labor).

Happened to me many many times, including a couple of weeks ago when some butthurt douche get upset with me in the forums and within minutes, my entire catalog was mysteriously bombed.

But given your 3 options, why are you continuing to comment in threads like this? The system sucks for many people, a significant subset of those people come to forums to vent or hoping to see change, and that's not going to change. As per my point to Voboy, what do you get out of telling people not to complain? You surely know your words won't change anything. (And, yes, I would like to figure out why I'm bothering to respond!)

Because it's good discussion. You are still engaging with me in the topic, and I with you, because it's a topic that we both wish to discuss. Notice also that even though we disagree, we are not flaming nor insulting each other. That shows that the conversation is meaningful to both of us.

And lastly, as to people stopping whining, that's a suggestion, not an order. Most people who choose option 3 (whine) either aren't aware of the other options or most likely have never tried the other options, and speaking from experience, I can say that option 1 works really well for me so why not give it a try? Either way, make no mistake though, this is a CHOICE. "I can't choose that, I'm too sensitive," is simply not true. It is 100% a choice to whine or toughen up.

 

[SimonDoom]

For whatever reason, waking up today and seeing all of my stories getting 1-starred after posting a new chapter (the first one put in the LW genre) has stuck in my craw all day and made me pissy. Which is one me (although, seriously, not a good way for a site that relies on free labor to encourage more free labor).

But given your 3 options, why are you continuing to comment in threads like this? The system sucks for many people, a significant subset of those people come to forums to vent or hoping to see change, and that's not going to change. As per my point to Voboy, what do you get out of telling people not to complain? You surely know your words won't change anything. (And, yes, I would like to figure out why I'm bothering to respond!)

I don't think there's anything wrong with venting. LW is a weird category with warring camps of readers. It's understandable one would feel chagrin to see one's story bombed. Believe me, I've had plenty of "WTF?!" moments in watching the scores to my stories in that category.

I speak up when people go beyond venting and insist that the site should change the way it does things to accommodate their feelings. More often than not, these people are not thinking about things from different points of view and they aren't thinking seriously about the various disadvantages of changing things.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

For whatever reason, waking up today and seeing all of my stories getting 1-starred after posting a new chapter (the first one put in the LW genre) has stuck in my craw all day and made me pissy. Which is one me (although, seriously, not a good way for a site that relies on free labor to encourage more free labor).

But given your 3 options, why are you continuing to comment in threads like this? The system sucks for many people, a significant subset of those people come to forums to vent or hoping to see change, and that's not going to change. As per my point to Voboy, what do you get out of telling people not to complain? You surely know your words won't change anything. (And, yes, I would like to figure out why I'm bothering to respond!)

I'm sorry to say this, but you fail to understand that "suck it up" is the ONLY advice people here CAN give you.

As you've already been told, multiple times, people have been complaining about these things for years, decades even! But, at the end of the day, the only options you have are to either bow to what the majority of readers want you to write, learn to live with anonymous strangers on the internet taking offense in your work, or post somewhere else. It's that simple.

Yeah, it may "feel like gaslighting" if you're told this, but, again, it's the only thing we can tell you: Vote with your wallet, and all that.

Now, vent as much as you want. It won't solve your problem, or help you get some perspective on it, or even garner much attention because we really ARE getting threads like these on a semi-weekly basis and everything that can be discussed HAS been discussed to death, but, please, go ahead. Let it all out. Then, when you've cleared your head, make a decision.

 

[PrivateFirstClass]

I'm sorry to say this, but you fail to understand that "suck it up" is the ONLY advice people here CAN give you.

As you've already been told, multiple times, people have been complaining about these things for years, decades even! But, at the end of the day, the only options you have are to either bow to what the majority of readers want you to write, learn to live with anonymous strangers on the internet taking offense in your work, or post somewhere else. It's that simple.

Yeah, it may "feel like gaslighting" if you're told this, but, again, it's the only thing we can tell you: Vote with your wallet, and all that.

Now, vent as much as you want. It won't solve your problem, or help you get some perspective on it, or even garner much attention because we really ARE getting threads like these on a semi-weekly basis and everything that can be discussed HAS been discussed to death, but, please, go ahead. Let it all out. Then, when you've cleared your head, make a decision.

This falls into the "why did you bother to complain about people complaining" category for me. Clearly, you could suck it up and ignore these threads but you chose not to.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

This falls into the "why did you bother to complain about people complaining" category for me. Clearly, you could suck it up and ignore these threads but you chose not to.

Again, nobody is complaining about your complaining. I encouraged you to vent. And then I gave you the only advice you can get. If you prefer to be ignored and completely left alone with your problem, then, sure, I can "suck it up" and stop responding. Sorry if I misunderstood your public posting as a query for insight...

 

[Voboy]

This falls into the "why did you bother to complain about people complaining" category for me. Clearly, you could suck it up and ignore these threads but you chose not to.

Perhaps it's because we feel you could benefit from our replies?

We've been through this before, many many times. We're telling you things we've told many others. Some of them listened, stayed around, saw for themselves the wisdom in what we were saying, and have moved on with varying degrees of happiness. Some have continued to complain. Others have simply left the site.

You have options, but none of those options includes "fixing the voting system." We've got scores, perhaps even hundreds, of threads that all go the same exact way. You can feel free to search, if you'd like: it's all out there. Laurel and Manu are well aware of all those threads. They have chosen to do nothing. I think there's an obvious lesson to be gleaned from their inaction, which is why I'm advising you to do what I've done: change your mindset to appreciate what Lit can give you, rather than lamenting what it cannot. Whether you believe me or not, that advice is given sincerely and, hopefully, without rancor on either side.

 

[RejectReality]

If you're writing in LW, you really need to stop comparing those stories to those in any other category, whether yours or another author's. It is a completely different environment than anywhere else on the site. The normal rules of scores and readership don't really apply. So little gets good scores there that it's one of the few places where the readership largely ignores the red H bling. ( Except as a target for trolling ) If they were as mesmerized by that as the readership in most categories, they'd never have anything to read. What would be a devastating run of bombs anywhere else is a dawdle there, and won't affect your readership all that much.

The factors that drive readership there are completely different. The scores can drive more long-term readership if they're higher through exposure on toplists and such, but in that crucial first week or so when the bulk of the activity happens, it's largely irrelevant. Beyond that a story can spike out of the blue because someone leaves a comment and a dozen others have to read it to either pat the commenter on the back or spit venom at them for their stupidity. I get the feeling that a large portion of the readership in the category is driven by word-of-mouth more than anything else.

The only good reason to care about scores is how it affects your readership. Trolling is a fact of life in LW, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage there for that very same reason. Ask yourself whether that run of bombs is really affecting the activity before you freak out over it.

 

[SimonDoom]

Trolling is a fact of life in LW, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage for that very same reason.

This is the thing people need to understand. I've published three stories in this category, and they're some of my lowest-rated stories. But so what? One of them, with a score of only 3.73 (my lowest of all my stories) has over 95,000 views, 59 favorites, and 68 comments, mostly favorable (although there have been some negative doozies). I received comments ranging from "Outstanding!" to "UTTER TRASH." The most memorable comment was "Here eat my used condom." By "Anonymous" of course.

I wouldn't want to get rid of the anonymous votes and comments for anything.

 

[Plathfan]

For whatever reason, waking up today and seeing all of my stories getting 1-starred after posting a new chapter (the first one put in the LW genre) has stuck in my craw all day and made me pissy. Which is one me (although, seriously, not a good way for a site that relies on free labor to encourage more free labor).

Scores, red signs, commentary, contests, events, forums—this entire ecosystem has one primary objective: to keep people engaged. For writers, the goal is to push them to write more—some even compulsively.

Once you gain this eagle-eye perspective, you can either fly away or land and accept your small role in the machine.

People don’t change, so growing a thicker skin isn’t an option. However, choosing to accept a certain amount of discomfort and frustration is within your control.

 

[MiaBabe23]

I’m kinda surprised that a good portion commenting here think giving a one star rating is inherently spamming… unless there’s an indication that people are instantly leaving that without reading it, why is it inconceivable they genuinely don’t like it?
Or course there will be trolls, but also those who genuinely didn’t like the story for whatever reason. I used to only leave ratings where it was a 4 or 5 in my view, because it seemed unkind to leave a rating if I wasn’t keen
Once I received a full range of ratings and feedback for my first story, I realized honest feedback is just as important as positive; might not always agree with what’s said, but everyone is entitled to give their view - which is one of the things we’re asking them to do when we publish

 

[Tomh1966]

I’m kinda surprised that a good portion commenting here think giving a one star rating is inherently spamming… unless there’s an indication that people are instantly leaving that without reading it, why is it inconceivable they genuinely don’t like it?
Or course there will be trolls, but also those who genuinely didn’t like the story for whatever reason. I used to only leave ratings where it was a 4 or 5 in my view, because it seemed unkind to leave a rating if I wasn’t keen
Once I received a full range of ratings and feedback for my first story, I realized honest feedback is just as important as positive; might not always agree with what’s said, but everyone is entitled to give their view - which is one of the things we’re asking them to do when we publish

I give a 1 star VERY rarely. The story actually has to offend me in some way. Usually it is explicit violence against women.

I dont like hotwife or cuck stories. Note actual cuck stories, not just stories where the cheated husband extracts insufficient revenge. I do this really weird thing when I see an obvious cuck or hotwife story. I skip it 99% of the time. The 1%. yeah, I read CindyTV Hotwife Fantasy Fulfilled. Yeah, that was a rough read and ya know what I did? I did not vote it down. Shes one of my favorite authors so I did not rate it. I appreciate the work.

 

[MiaBabe23]

I give a 1 star VERY rarely. The story actually has to offend me in some way. Usually it is explicit violence against women.

I dont like hotwife or cuck stories. Note actual cuck stories, not just stories where the cheated husband extracts insufficient revenge. I do this really weird thing when I see an obvious cuck or hotwife story. I skip it 99% of the time. The 1%. yeah, I read CindyTV Hotwife Fantasy Fulfilled. Yeah, that was a rough read and ya know what I did? I did not vote it down. Shes one of my favorite authors so I did not rate it. I appreciate the work.

Well explicit violence I would be more inclined to report, or comment clearly if it seemed somehow within the rules
But you also highlight the different approaches everyone has to one star - everyone will mean something different with it
To me, one star means badly written / awful plot/ message etc
Violence etc is unacceptable and a different response is needed from my pov

 

[PrivateFirstClass]

I’m kinda surprised that a good portion commenting here think giving a one star rating is inherently spamming… unless there’s an indication that people are instantly leaving that without reading it, why is it inconceivable they genuinely don’t like it?
Or course there will be trolls, but also those who genuinely didn’t like the story for whatever reason. I used to only leave ratings where it was a 4 or 5 in my view, because it seemed unkind to leave a rating if I wasn’t keen
Once I received a full range of ratings and feedback for my first story, I realized honest feedback is just as important as positive; might not always agree with what’s said, but everyone is entitled to give their view - which is one of the things we’re asking them to do when we publish

There are one-star ratings because people didn't like the story. Then there are ones where you have a fair degree of confidence that the person/people didn't even read the story due to timing.

I'm very unlikely to leave a rating under 3 because if I reacted to it that poorly, it probably just wasn't for me, rather than it being a bad story. Also, a star rating is a terrible feedback mechanism for problems since it doesn't say anything about what wasn't working. It is, however, an effective tool in trying to police what other people get to experience—smash a style of story you don't like (common in LW), and it will show up less frequently for others to see. It's why the star rating is so maddening.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well explicit violence I would be more inclined to report, or comment clearly if it seemed somehow within the rules
But you also highlight the different approaches everyone has to one star - everyone will mean something different with it
To me, one star means badly written / awful plot/ message etc
Violence etc is unacceptable and a different response is needed from my pov

I'm more like you. I'm extremely tolerant of other people's kinks, even if I think they're disturbing, and I almost never downvote on the basis of objectionable content. I downvote because I think it's poorly written.

But there's nothing obviously correct about that way of voting, and obviously some people feel very strongly about registering how much they dislike certain themes or categories of content. That's the way people vote "out there" in the real world, and that vote helps convey information to potential readers who think the same way.

 

[Plathfan]

Violence etc is unacceptable

That excludes all action genres and most suspense/drama genres. Should I be ashamed for enjoying Tarantino and Westerns? Your statement is pretty broad.

 

[Cuckwannabe111]

Late to the conversation here. I would never down vote due to a kink I didn't like. (I think that seems to happen in Loving Wives stories a lot lol) My down votes are always for either: a..bad content. The story is forced or just doesn't flow. B...bad writing. Full of grammatical errors and switching back and forth from first to third person view in the same scene

 

[MiaBabe23]

There are one-star ratings because people didn't like the story. Then there are ones where you have a fair degree of confidence that the person/people didn't even read the story due to timing.

I'm very unlikely to leave a rating under 3 because if I reacted to it that poorly, it probably just wasn't for me, rather than it being a bad story. Also, a star rating is a terrible feedback mechanism for problems since it doesn't say anything about what wasn't working. It is, however, an effective tool in trying to police what other people get to experience—smash a style of story you don't like (common in LW), and it will show up less frequently for others to see. It's why the star rating is so maddening.

Well - maddening for us as authors perhaps. But that’s feedback isn’t it. They didn’t like it
One person, even ten, probably even one hundred doing that will have no impact on that story or genre appearing - unless it’s genuinely less popular
Like my unpopular view here - you guys can all insist that you disagree, I can see you do. I’m considering what you say, but still do
This is my reasoned view. So I would still give the idea that one star ratings inherently equal trolls a one star rating

 

[MiaBabe23]

That excludes all action genres and most suspense/drama genres. Should I be ashamed for enjoying Tarantino and Westerns? Your statement is pretty broad.

I’m talking specifically about erotica - the theme of the conversation here

 

[Plathfan]

I’m talking specifically about erotica - the theme of the conversation here

Spanking, pulling hair, and choking are forms of violence...

 

[MiaBabe23]

Spanking, pulling hair, and choking are forms of violence...

Not sure what debate you’re seeking here

 

[Plathfan]

Not sure what debate you’re seeking here

You stated that violence is unacceptable, and I wanted to remind you how easily people downvote fine writing simply because they deem it "unacceptable."