PBS Poll: 95% Oppose Gun Control

[Que]

Well, then, it would be easy for you to back this up with links.

I realize that historically, Germans have been big fans of law and order through gun control. We have gone a different direction in America, I hope you don't mind?

Since apparently Google is broken for you and none or your domestic news sources that tell you all about crime in America have bothered to mention that violent crime is down 50% over the last 20 years, let me help you out with links:

Crime down in Florida as I said. You could find this by googling "crime down in Florida:"

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/state/fla-firearm-violence-hits-record-low

This from paper owned by Bloomberg living in New York who spent millions of his own personal fortune to tell other people across the country what sort of gun laws they should live under. They admit that crime is down while gun ownership is up. Everyone that owns a gun knows this and everyone who hates guns does not...why is that?

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-12/firearm-sales-up-plus-crime-down-equals-gun-control-dead

I hate debating this because all you anti-gun nuts get your misleading, parsed and conflated statistics from Mother Jones and Slate. Who get it from the Brady campaign that uses them mostly for fund-raising. I tire of debunking them one by one. Like "children" including 25 year-old gang members.

Go to NRA.org. Find one single statistic in any article there that is not carefully vetted and documented.

Since I am going to hazzard count a guess that you wont do that because really smart people tell you the NRA is "full of it" so lets continue our google journey:

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide/

http://dcgazette.com/fbi-legal-gun-ownership-soars-and-violent-crime-drops/

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/murder-down-gun-sales-up-proof-that-guns-dont-cause-crime-saf-79852892.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/07/nation/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/07/nation/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/17/1049079/-RKBA-Crime-down-gun-ownership-up-that-can-t-be-right#

http://www.richmond.com/news/state-regional/va-gun-crime-drops-again-as-firearm-sales-soar/article_a9a3cd36-dc50-5192-9b97-e14258e6168a.html

OK I was wrong, 49% not 50%:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304914204579393493981280048

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/18/gun-ownership-up-crime-down/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

http://news.yahoo.com/semi-annual-fbi-report-confirms-crime-down-gun-183300510.html

 

[Liar]

Eliminate all stats from about 7 major American cities and your per capita gun death is lower than the UK.

Can we eliminate all stats from about 7 major British cities too?


(Edit: If there are that many? )

 

[PoppingTom]

I realize NAZIs were big fans of law and order through gun control. We have gone a different direction in America, I hope you don't mind?

We're no Nazis since 1949, and I don't mind your criminal problems, as it's not mine. Berlin is the third most dangerous city in Germany, with a homicide rate lower than Maine or Montana.

One explanation might be this one:

I really think the main thing is that our government doesn't allow guns in everyone's hands, and most of all: We have one single federal law that regulates the possession and use of guns, not like in the U.S., where state laws differ. To own a gun, you must be member of a firearms club ("Schützenverein"), and/or must have made an official test that you are physically fit to handle the gun. Furthermore, you are not legally allowed to buy or possess sharp ammo, unless you have a special reason for that, like when you're a hunter, or a cop on duty.

But this is only one side of the story, and might explain why there are so few murder cases here. (2006: 818; 95.2% of them cleared)

The other side is that Germany is densely populated, and the villages, small towns, and even the "townships" in the larger cities have a neighborhood that's not just curious, but really interested in you. I moved around a lot throughout Germany, and the neighbors really take care of you. This also applies to quarters mostly inhabited by immigrants; i lived in Berlin-Kreuzberg for a while, which is mostly inhabited by Turkish immigrants. I wasn't afraid in the streets at night. There's no better protection than neighbors who take care of each other.

Furthermore, minor crimes are usually not reported to the police. At least, people from my generation don't. We work that out on a personal basis, if we can guess who it was, or live with a loss of 20 euros. I was robbed once (the guy showed me a knife, what should I do, I gave him my money), he took the 20 and ran away. There was enough in the other pocket, but he and his three friends didn't even search me for that. It didn't happen in a village, but in Berlin. I really had to laugh about it; a "street gang" would have acted otherwise.

I don't think it's the law or its enforcement that keeps our crime rate so low. It's the people. It is general consent that killing a person is a "no-do", under no circumstance. (Hurting one, e.g. for reasons of jealousy, is another topic.) And I think even immigrants learn that pretty fast. 60 years without war: I think the Germans have become a very peaceful people.

Source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071217205930AAyau78


But let's take a look at your stuff.

Crime down in Florida as I said. You could find this by googling "crime down in Florida:"

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/state/fla-firearm-violence-hits-record-low

And you read that?

Because this is what's written there:

Florida statistics show murderers are increasingly using firearms. Between 2000 and 2005, Florida's firearm-involved murder rate never topped 3.5 per 100,000 residents. Every year since, it's exceeded that number. And in 2011, for the first time on record, guns were used in more than 70 percent of homicides.

Mirroring the 33 percent decline in gun violence since 2007, the violent crime rate also dropped 26 percent during that time, which could suggest other factors at play in causing fewer criminal acts.

Which is verifiable: Just go to the FBI, check "Florida","violent crime rates", and between 1990 and 2012.

You'll see that robbery saw a decline. Rape, too, but just in the overall tendency. Homicide rate hasn't changed much. Thing is that robbery was already on decline over the years, but pushed up in 2006 and 2007 and was still higher in 2008 than in 2005.

tl;dr: your article debunks your opinion.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-12/firearm-sales-up-plus-crime-down-equals-gun-control-dead

I hate debating this because all you anti-gun nuts get your idiotic, misleading, parsed and conflated statistics from mother jones and slate. I tire of debunking them one by one.

What can you debunk?

Colorado had more gun restrictions in 2012-2013, and 15% more homicides, but 8 % less robbery.
Kansas loosened their restrictions after 2012, and had 31% more homicides, but 9% less robbery.

Funny thing is, your article says following:

. In December 1993, 70 percent of Americans supported stricter gun control, according to pollsters at CNN (TWX). Then, beginning in 1994, for reasons that still perplex criminologists, violent crime began to decrease, falling roughly 50 percent over the past two decades.

and mention the 1994-2004 federal assault weapons ban.

This is no Slate, man, this is YOUR source. Mine are the FBI.

Shall I continue?

 

[Bad_Doggie]

None of that is true if you are neither involved in drug trafficking or a gang member.

Despite your desperate attempts to massage down the figures to fit your preconceived conclusion it remains true.

It is true that your murder rates with a firearm will drop dramatically if you exclude drug trafficking or gang members killed.

But, you don’t get to do that in isolation; if you also remove the same from all other westernized nations the average American is still approx. 3-4 times more likely to be murdered than in any other westernized nation.

Mall shooting? Really, this is a concern? More people are killed by cows.

It ought to be and given the frequency that indiscriminate shootings in a public place happen in the US is yet another indicator that your lack of gun laws don’t work and don’t prevent such instances happening.

Logically, if your ideas were true there would be less incidences, but, there are substantially more; now what? Re-evaluate?

Don’t worry; we can get over this by hand waving it away and ignoring this too!

More Americans are killed by guns because we have more guns More Salvadorians are killed by machetes because they have no guns.

Um well yeah that’s kinda the point, and yet murders due to all other methods are similar to all other westernized nations so there is no net benefit to your lack of gun regulation.

Not considering all of the crimes that did not occur or were interrupted by the presence of a firearm is incomplete. Comparing murder rates country to country is silly when as I said, if you are not a gang member it happens rarely in our armed society.

Ahhhhaahhaaa “Not considering all of the crimes that did not occur” I’d love to know how anyone thinks they can collect usable data on that; because if they did then we’ve finally been able to prove a negative! Hooray!

How about instead of comparing other countries to America, you compare America to America, or any location in America to itself.

What an utterly ridiculous idea and yet another attempt to corrupt data in your favour.

The only way this scenario would have any validity would be compare a city, county, state with gun regulation AND A SECURE BOARDER with one that has no regulation. That would involve a city, county, state surrounded with a natural barrier or wall with entrance/exit check points. Does any such thing exist?

If it doesn’t this is just downright dishonest.

And what’s wrong with comparing countries…..doesn’t fit your preconceived conclusion?

Crime is demonstrably down as gun-ownership is up. There is no way to parse that into anything but what it is. More guns not only does not equal more violence, more guns happens to coincide with less violent though of course you cannot show that that correlation is causative.
Correlation is not causation, but complete lack of correlation proves the opposite. If there had been more guns and more crime it proves nothing, but more guns and less crime proves at a minimum that there is no correlation between increased gun ownership rates and increased crime.

Bullshit!
Crime rates in nearly all westernized nations have been falling steadily over the past 20-30 years.

In the UK we are now recording the lowest crime rates for 30 years, despite far tougher gun regulation than 30 years ago. How do you explain that?

The one figure that remains constant is the relative murder rate when the US is compared to any other westernized nation. How do you explain that?

You believe what you believe so you look for support by only cherry picking the crime stats (murder by gun) that suits you despite a huge difference in culture compared to the areas in America where you are likely to experience gun violence.

Eliminate all stats from about 7 major American cities and your per capita gun death is lower than the UK.

What the fuck do you think you’re doing here if that isn’t “cherry picking”?

And no that is not my methodology; that is yours. I look at whatever data is available and make a conclusion from there, not the other way round.

Lemme get this straight, you believe you have lower per capita gun deaths if you don’t count drug trafficking or gang member killings and then go on to exclude 7 major American cities and then compare that to the UK INCLUDING, drug trafficking or a gang member killings and all major cities. Really?

Tbh I’ve never seen any stats that have that level of bias and corruption in them, are there any, from a verifiable independent source?

Hey, let’s make this easier for ya and not count deaths of individuals with bullets in them in the US and compare that to the UK with bullets. There you win.

Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

I hate debating this because all you anti-gun nuts get your misleading, parsed and conflated statistics from Mother Jones and Slate. Who get it from the Brady campaign that uses them mostly for fund-raising. I tire of debunking them one by one. Like "children" including 25 year-old gang members.

Go to NRA.org. Find one single statistic in any article there that is not carefully vetted and documented.

Go to my thread and post where I used one data set from an un-independent, source.

And then you link us to the NRA.

You are a comedian!!

Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

We're no Nazis since 1949, and I don't mind your criminal problems, as it's not mine. Berlin is the third most dangerous city in Germany, with a homicide rate lower than Maine or Montana.

One explanation might be this one:


Source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071217205930AAyau78


But let's take a look at your stuff.



And you read that?

Because this is what's written there:



Which is verifiable: Just go to the FBI, check "Florida","violent crime rates", and between 1990 and 2012.

You'll see that robbery saw a decline. Rape, too, but just in the overall tendency. Homicide rate hasn't changed much. Thing is that robbery was already on decline over the years, but pushed up in 2006 and 2007 and was still higher in 2008 than in 2005.

tl;dr: your article debunks your opinion.




What can you debunk?

Colorado had more gun restrictions in 2012-2013, and 15% more homicides, but 8 % less robbery.
Kansas loosened their restrictions after 2012, and had 31% more homicides, but 9% less robbery.

Funny thing is, your article says following:



and mention the 1994-2004 federal assault weapons ban.

This is no Slate, man, this is YOUR source. Mine are the FBI.

Shall I continue?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/Bad_Doggie/LaughingDog.gif
Brilliant.

Woof!

 

[PoppingTom]

Go to NRA.org. Find one single statistic in any article there that is not carefully vetted and documented.

Since I am going to hazzard count a guess that you wont do that because really smart people tell you the NRA is "full of it".....

You don't need to be smart to realize that perhaps the NRA is partisan.

Example:

“Assault weapon” and “large” magazine bans have not reduced crime. After its 1989 ban, California’s murder rate increased every year for five years, 26% overall. California banned more guns in January 2000 (and thereafter imposed a variety of other gun control restrictions) and murder has since averaged 12% higher than the national rate.

This sounds like an argument, but if you take a deeper look, you'll find out that the homicide rate was on decline since the federal assault weapon ban. It was 13 % in 1993, and 6.0 in 1999.

Thing is that most arguments from the NRA aren't arguments supporting their position. They've been mentioned because they don't support the gun control positions either, but not debunking them.

That's what they say, too:

Even the radical anti-gun group, Violence Policy Center, said “You can’t argue with a straight face that the ban has been effective.”16 The FBI does not list guns or “gun control” as a “crime factor” and California doesn’t credit its “assault weapon” ban for the state’s recent decrease in crime.17 Studies for the CDC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Library of Congress have found no evidence that “gun control” reduces crime.

No evidence that it reduces crime. Also no evidence crime rises.

I lived long enough in a propaganda state to know how it works. The NRA don't need to lie. It's all about the representation.

But feel free to cite them to back your arguments up.