pic-a-thon II

[darkerdreamer]

It's a matter of opinion, I realize, but to me an illustrated poem is a hybrid of a poem and a piece of visual art. When I started doing illustrated poems about three years ago (after a suggestion by Senna Jawa to try it), I noticed that the way I was using words was different than if I wrote an "un-illustrated" poem. At first I thought I was just editing to visually fit the words in the space better (which would support your position), but then I realized that I was also editing to try to make the words and photo complement each other--to make a cohesive piece of art. I don't see that as writing a "lesser" poem (necessarily), but rather as creating a different kind of art.

I think my position may have come off wrong due to poor wording. I completely agree with you and WS1, that both the art and the words should be integral to each other--in a way that neither would have the same impact if missing each other.

It would be nice to get some more opinions though; I have always been confused about the public perception of mixed-media poetry.

 

[Angeline]

I think my position may have come off wrong due to poor wording. I completely agree with you and WS1, that both the art and the words should be integral to each other--in a way that neither would have the same impact if missing each other.

It would be nice to get some more opinions though; I have always been confused about the public perception of mixed-media poetry.

Forgive me if I misunderstood you--could as easily have been my reading of your post.

Sometimes I think of the marriage of these art forms--and not just illustrated poems, but the whole range of possibilites technology offers, too--as digital performance art. Lauren Hynde has a great example of this in her poem hear my name. And are you familiar with Born Magazine? They publish "poems" that join words, visual art, and sound. Very interesting stuff!

 

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[Angeline]

Then ahem, RainMan's comment here, can be used to make reference to later when discussioning the of value illustrated poems with him again.

HeeHee.

 

[Tzara]

It's a matter of opinion, I realize, but to me an illustrated poem is a hybrid of a poem and a piece of visual art. When I started doing illustrated poems about three years ago (after a suggestion by Senna Jawa to try it), I noticed that the way I was using words was different than if I wrote an "un-illustrated" poem. At first I thought I was just editing to visually fit the words in the space better (which would support your position), but then I realized that I was also editing to try to make the words and photo complement each other--to make a cohesive piece of art. I don't see that as writing a "lesser" poem (necessarily), but rather as creating a different kind of art.

I'm not sure if that adequately explains it. Maybe others who do both "normal" and illustrated poems can weigh in on this. Lauren? Eve? Neo?

That's an interesting way to put it, Ms. A. I've tended to be more of TRM's mind about illustrated poems, but perhaps I need to think of them as something different, more like how I think of concrete poetry or Apollinaire's calligrammes—not as "weak poems with interesting typography" but as something quite different from a "normal" poem, with different goals.

It seems to me that the language of the poem would almost need to be different in an illustrated poem as the image carries part of the overall meaning. So perhaps the language would normally be "dialed down" a bit. Certainly you wouldn't want to have the illustration evoke an image that would be at cross-purposes to the language.

I do think that doing illustrated poetry well is very difficult. It often seems to be too overbalanced on the illustration (the author writes a short poem about a picture) or on the poem (the artist takes a picture that illustrates a poem). That's what makes that example of Lauren's so interesting—it takes a different approach to the problem that melds well with the verbal nature of poetry.

 

[Angeline]

That's an interesting way to put it, Ms. A. I've tended to be more of TRM's mind about illustrated poems, but perhaps I need to think of them as something different, more like how I think of concrete poetry or Apollinaire's calligrammes—not as "weak poems with interesting typography" but as something quite different from a "normal" poem, with different goals.

It seems to me that the language of the poem would almost need to be different in an illustrated poem as the image carries part of the overall meaning. So perhaps the language would normally be "dialed down" a bit. Certainly you wouldn't want to have the illustration evoke an image that would be at cross-purposes to the language.

I do think that doing illustrated poetry well is very difficult. It often seems to be too overbalanced on the illustration (the author writes a short poem about a picture) or on the poem (the artist takes a picture that illustrates a poem). That's what makes that example of Lauren's so interesting—it takes a different approach to the problem that melds well with the verbal nature of poetry.

It's a way of thinking about illustrated poems that I came to after constructing a number of them. Of course, there are "bad" (or maybe ineffective) poems in any medium. And I agree that it is difficult to make a good illustrated poem--a piece of art that is balanced with words and image equally supporting the theme. It's much easier to throw a poem together with an image. The fit doesn't work and it's clear to a careful reader that the poet didn't really think about creating a cohesive piece of art. I ought to know, having done my share of illustrated poems that don't work.

It is (to me anyway) a fascinating process to put one of these things together. I don't choose one of my poems and look for a photo to go with it. My experience has been that that doesn't produce a good illustrated poem--it's like trying to force two disparate things to come togther. I look at photographs for inspiration, then write the poem, then put the two together. As I do that last bit and edit the words and play with the features of the program I use (Photoshop Elements), the hybrid "artwork" comes together (or not lol). Even when the end product isn't what I might have hoped to achieve, I feel I've learned something about editing poetry from (for me) a wholly different perspective. And I do love to learn.

You should try it. It really is fun and thought provoking. If you don't have your own photographs or drawings, you can find scads of "free use" photos at The Stock Xchng.

 

[Eluard]

Wow, such great stuff here — loved some of these and think that they work so well.

I agree about the problems of getting this right. If you have some strongly visual imagery in the poem then any actual picture can just interfere with it. Just as if you have strongly "musical" elements in a poem, like metre and rhyme, then any accompanying music can interfere with that. I think there are the same problems, on a different scale, with adding illustrations to a book — they can just interfere with the visualisation already implicit in the reading process.

Making a new, autonymous work requires a constructive interplay between all the elements, but after it is acheived no one of the components should really work by itself. Or at least, it need not.

 

[Liar]

First poem I've written in months, it seems.

Illustration ain't mine, just something I found Googling and pasted in, so I think it'll survive being posted post here, but will stay off the main site.

 

[Angeline]

First poem I've written in months, it seems.

Illustration ain't mine, just something I found Googling and pasted in, so I think it'll survive being posted post here, but will stay off the main site.

It's lovely and wistful, and the words fit well with the spare image.

Nice to see you poeting again, L-man.

 

[Liar]

Shades of White

 

[wildsweetone]

Shades of White

i saw this earlier today and ran out of time to comment ( i recall i enjoyed it). when i came back to re-read it just now it opened in a new page in my existing firefox browser to a blank 'white' page. coincidence?

 

[Liar]

i saw this earlier today and ran out of time to comment ( i recall i enjoyed it). when i came back to re-read it just now it opened in a new page in my existing firefox browser to a blank 'white' page. coincidence?

let's hope so.

Here it is again, perhaps more readable:

 

[Liar]

Script for a Supermarket

 

[Angeline]

Script for a Supermarket

Good stuff L-Man. A poem that I can really relate to my mommy years.

 

[wildsweetone]

Script for a Supermarket

lol that is one quick child!

which goes to show, your writing dragged me right along through the whole poem. very realistic. well done Liar.

thanks for posting up your Shades of White. yes, i really do like it too.

don't forget to add a signature to your work. it's good and deserves your name.

 

[annaswirls]

Good stuff L-Man. A poem that I can really relate to my mommy years.

Yes, it is a good one! But I wish I got away so easy with all those yes Mommas.... mine is already practicing for the debate team. I am working on the Yes M'ams but t'aint easy.

 

[Angeline]

Yes, it is a good one! But I wish I got away so easy with all those yes Mommas.... mine is already practicing for the debate team. I am working on the Yes M'ams but t'aint easy.

LOL! Mine are still practicing; well the 15-year-old is. My big boy (19) now agrees with everything I say, which I know means he is doing exactly what he wants.

 

[Liar]

LOL! Mine are still practicing; well the 15-year-old is. My big boy (19) now agrees with everything I say, which I know means he is doing exactly what he wants.

Hah, I learned that at 12.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

 

[Guest]

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[jushorny]

Yea, I'd have to agree with you there. Although I might add that the words on top of the image certainly add to the reader's interest

 

[Guest]

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[Angeline]

~Bump for Jamison~

 

[WickedEve]

Oh, I forgot about sp's pic-a-thon threads! Glad you found them.