Plan B available "over the counter"

[cloudy]

SEV - he's entitled to his views, but I am entitled to mine, including having the right to tell him to fuck off. He called me a murderer, hon. He doesn't deserve my respect or another moment of my time.

His rights are mine as well.

Indeed...including comparing sarahh and I, along with others, to people like Andrea Yates.

Sarahh and I both have children, and we both are good parents...then here comes this guy who wants to say that people like us scare him, that we're not good parents.

He can kiss my ass. I've raised two GOOD kids completely by myself, and am raising a third. He doesn't have a friggin' clue.

 

[Lisa Denton]

SEV - he's entitled to his views, but I am entitled to mine, including having the right to tell him to fuck off. He called me a murderer, hon. He doesn't deserve my respect or another moment of my time.

His rights are mine as well.

I got your back babe ......................

ooooh, a nice backside it is ..............


I also got your quote in my sig line.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Will someone please point out the passage where he said that you are murderers, personally? I don't recall reading it. I just took it as an honest difference of opinion, albeit with some harsh language on his part.

Not that I agree with him on 1st trimester. I see no reason to think that life begins at conception myself. I just don't think that he meant it personally. After all, if he considered you murderers, why would he say that he [/I]liked you? Sounds like an odd contradiction to me. If he does like you and still deems you murderers, then he is just a raving lunatic and you don't need the aggravation of ranting at him.

Not ready to put him on ignore just yet. Every other viewpoint that he has expressed on every other subject has made perfect sense to me. He is just evidently a militant anti-abortionist. Note that he referred to you as "pro-death", not pro-choice. The "pro-death" part is militant anti-abortion rhetoric. I should know. I was once a rabid supporter of Randall Terry and his Operation Rescue. Either the man is a principled, but perhaps too harsh-sounding right-to-lifer, or he is just a nutcase. I doubt that he is the new Hitler.

 

[Guest]

Laughing -

cloudy and Lisa, love you both!

I'm going to laugh out loud whenever I see your sig line, Lisa baby!

 

[Guest]

He said it quite a bit, SEV.

So, some of us are opposed to murdering unborn children, and that makes US irresponsible? Is it not MORE irresponsible to kill a child, simply so that your own life will be easier? Isn't that the sort of thing that we send sociopaths to prison for? Just a thought.

I don't mean to malign anyone, but I believe in calling a spade a spade. I still think that many of the pro-death camp are prudes who can't live by their own rules and must therefore cover up the "sin" by murdering a child. And what is with punishing an innocent child for the rape or incest committed by parents? Is that not savagery? Who else will you propose to punish for the crimes of fathers and mothers?

This whole thing reminds me of an employee murdering an inconvenient colleague to rise to a higher position or a man or woman murdering an inconvenient spouse to avoid the expense of divorce. That's how sick and selfish it seems to me.

Someone else's baby is THEIR responsibility and moral duty to raise instead of killing, to protect, and provide. This shows a distinct lack of maternal instinct, in my opinion. I, for one, am glad that, unborn and unwanted or not, none of the most rabid pro-deathers are my mother. I wouldn't want anything to do with such parents. Not trying to be cruel, but I'd be afraid for my life until I turned 18 and safe. Even then, I might worry. They might murder me to spend my college money on a cruise. What kind of mothers are we talking about here? Where is the famed feminine compassion and love? Where is the nurturing side? I don't see it in women who murder their kids. These women are no better than Susan Smith or Andrea Yates.

Irrelevant. I don't mean to be cruel, but there ARE female pro-lifers, you know. They have to go through it, and yet, they are willing. What do you have to say to them? They hold many of the same views that I just expressed. Are they lacking in empathy? Are they male chauvinist pigs too? Does it follow that anyone opposed to the 21st Century Holocaust of the unborn is automatically a misogynist? Food for thought.

Having lurked for a while, I like you guys. You might hate me now, but I like you. I just have strong ethical qualms about infanticide.

That's debatable. 2nd and 3rd is less so. All of the data that I have indicates that is infanticide beginning at least in the 2nd trimester, because the unborn at that stage are probably alive and conscious.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

He said it quite a bit, SEV.

Hmmm...I didn't really take that as him personally calling you murderers. I just took it as calling abortionists and those who have abortions murderers. Not merelly those who support the pro-choice position.

Maybe you're right. In which case, he is either crazy or just reckless with his rhetoric. Perhaps in anger. Perhaps in haste. I don't know. Now, the man just has me confused. Why personally attack people that you claim to like? Very odd conduct for an otherwise seemingly reasonable man. Very strange.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm...I didn't really take that as him personally calling you murderers. I just took it as calling abortionists and those who have abortions murderers. Not merelly those who support the pro-choice position.

Maybe you're right. In which case, he is either crazy or just reckless with his rhetoric. Perhaps in anger. Perhaps in haste. I don't know. Now, the man just has me confused. Why personally attack people that you claim to like? Very odd conduct for an otherwise seemingly reasonable man. Very strange.

Exactly.

Especially as his comments on the Women's Career thread were congenial.

This murderer rant seemed to be a hate-spewing attack from out of nowhere.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Exactly.

Especially as his comments on the Women's Career thread were congenial.

This murderer rant seemed to be a hate-spewing attack from out of nowhere.

Which, coupled with his being a lurker, suggests something else: he is an attention whore, who belongs at the GB rather than the AH. Next time he shows up, that might be the best suggestion to him. Save your vitriol for GBers. You'll fit in there better, yevy boy.

 

[Oblimo]

Personally, the abortion debate was settled in 1971 when Judith Jarvis Thompson published her amazing article, A Defense of Abortion, wherein she assumes the pro-life position that abortion is murder and shows why it still should be legal, anyway. No pro-life argument has ever been able to defeat it.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Which, coupled with his being a lurker, suggests something else: he is an attention whore, who belongs at the GB rather than the AH. Next time he shows up, that might be the best suggestion to him. Save your vitriol for GBers. You'll fit in there better, yevy boy.

I never saw anything like this in the AH.

So, some of us are opposed to murdering unborn children, and that makes US irresponsible? Is it not MORE irresponsible to kill a child, simply so that your own life will be easier? Isn't that the sort of thing that we send sociopaths to prison for? Just a thought.

I don't mean to malign anyone, but I believe in calling a spade a spade. I still think that many of the pro-death camp are prudes who can't live by their own rules and must therefore cover up the "sin" by murdering a child. And what is with punishing an innocent child for the rape or incest committed by parents? Is that not savagery? Who else will you propose to punish for the crimes of fathers and mothers?

This whole thing reminds me of an employee murdering an inconvenient colleague to rise to a higher position or a man or woman murdering an inconvenient spouse to avoid the expense of divorce. That's how sick and selfish it seems to me.

Someone else's baby is THEIR responsibility and moral duty to raise instead of killing, to protect, and provide. This shows a distinct lack of maternal instinct, in my opinion. I, for one, am glad that, unborn and unwanted or not, none of the most rabid pro-deathers are my mother. I wouldn't want anything to do with such parents. Not trying to be cruel, but I'd be afraid for my life until I turned 18 and safe. Even then, I might worry. They might murder me to spend my college money on a cruise. What kind of mothers are we talking about here? Where is the famed feminine compassion and love? Where is the nurturing side? I don't see it in women who murder their kids. These women are no better than Susan Smith or Andrea Yates.

He starts off saying rape is a crime commited by the parents, I can only assume he means the stupid woman got herself raped.

He then "mumble, mumble" rambles on about how the stupid woman should protect and provide and show maternal instincts for any child by any man who rapes her.

And then he "mumble, mumble" rambles on about how if his mother was pro-choice she might murder him to spend his college money on a cruise. Not realizing it is not his college money but her money she set aside to send him to college and if she wants it there is no reason to kill him for it.

Then he spews his hatred comparing a raped woman who chooses abortion to Andrea Yates.

The final straw, he pissed sweetsubsarahh off.

He has the right to say it, he also has a right to walk away before somebody writes "pro-life" on a banana and shoves it up his butt.

 

[Guest]

I never saw anything like this in the AH.



He starts off saying rape is a crime commited by the parents, I can only assume he means the stupid woman got herself raped.

He then "mumble, mumble" rambles on about how the stupid woman should protect and provide and show maternal instincts for any child by any man who rapes her.

And then he "mumble, mumble" rambles on about how if his mother was pro-choice she might murder him to spend his college money on a cruise. Not realizing it is not his college money but her money she set aside to send him to college and if she wants it there is no reason to kill him for it.

Then he spews his hatred comparing a raped woman who chooses abortion to Andrea Yates.

The final straw, he pissed sweetsubsarahh off.

He has the right to say it, he also has a right to walk away before somebody writes "pro-life" on a banana and shoves it up his butt.

Lisa, I love you.

Here are some bananas if you need 'em.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/bananabunchprolife.jpg

 

[Huckleman2000]

Well, about the Plan B thing...

If I had a teenage daughter, at the right time I'd buy her some to keep in her dresser or purse or whatever secret place she has, and I'd tell her that they're for emergency use only. Either for her, or for 'a friend'. If it had to be used, she should tell me and I'd buy her another one, and I'd try not to ask any questions.

It would be the same speech I'd give about drunk driving - just call me and I'll come and pick her up.

My son was unplanned, and his mother and I weren't married or considering it seriously, but neither of us could come up with any convincing reason not to have him. He turned out great, much better than the marriage did. His mother had an abortion previously, after she was taken advantage of on a business trip by a senior guy in her office at the time. Not too bright of her, but shit happens when you're a young up&comer, and get wined and dined on your first trip to NYC.

People get carried away and do stupid things all the time. Or sometimes, they get carried away and people do things to them that fall into a grey area. A couple of drinks too much, and someone is being kind of forceful, and the next morning you realize that you'll destroy not just that guy's life, but that of his family, and your own career and reputation, and you don't even know if your accusations will hold up...

A lot of people do a lot of stupid things all the time. It's an ugly world sometimes. True, a miscarriage or abortion or a fertilized egg that doesn't implant or an egg that isn't fertilized or a sperm that misses it's mark might have been an Einstein, but it could have also been a Jeffrey Dahmer or Adolph Hitler or any other of the singular villians of the last 100 years. If the child is unwanted, the chances of the latter are far higher. JMHO.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Will someone please point out the passage where he said that you are murderers, personally? I don't recall reading it. I just took it as an honest difference of opinion, albeit with some harsh language on his part. ...

Ummm..., just because women are loving mothers doesn't mean that they've not had abortions or other medical procedures that resulted in the loss of a pregnancy in the past.

I think that in calling women who had abortions murderers, it's probably safe to assume that women who may not have had abortions but support the right are the moral equivalent, in the eyes of the accuser.

 

[Guest]

Well, about the Plan B thing...

If I had a teenage daughter, at the right time I'd buy her some to keep in her dresser or purse or whatever secret place she has, and I'd tell her that they're for emergency use only. Either for her, or for 'a friend'. If it had to be used, she should tell me and I'd buy her another one, and I'd try not to ask any questions.

It would be the same speech I'd give about drunk driving - just call me and I'll come and pick her up.

. . .

Yes - so very wise.

We have the drunk speech already planned, kids are pretty young yet. But that is our same talk - we don't care, we'll fight about it later, but if you are drunk, or if the people you are with are drunk, do not get in the car, call us and we'll get you. We don't care what time it is. We may be annoyed about the circumstances the next day but we want you home safe.

I will probably wind up buying some of the meds when daughter starts dating. I guess. We've already discussed contraception (after they began the sex ed talks in school). But certainly by college age she should be on the pill, I would imagine. This would negate the need for this anyway.

*sigh* for all parents

 

[Lisa Denton]

Well, about the Plan B thing...

If I had a teenage daughter, at the right time I'd buy her some to keep in her dresser or purse or whatever secret place she has, and I'd tell her that they're for emergency use only. Either for her, or for 'a friend'. If it had to be used, she should tell me and I'd buy her another one, and I'd try not to ask any questions.

It would be the same speech I'd give about drunk driving - just call me and I'll come and pick her up.

JMHO.

Hey Huck, we were gettin sidetracked off the subject, I never thought this would turn into what it did.

But like you, I was wanting to hear from peoples that had ideas like that. I never thought about what a really good parent with a really good daughter might do. And it makes a lot of sense.

What I always got told and remembered, about drunk driving or being with someone who was drunk driving, was that I could call and face no questions and get a safe ride home that night ........... but catch hell the next day.

He, he. It was nice to know I had that option, and always made me think "responsibly" before having another drink.

I suppose it might be the same with Plan B for a young daughter to have that option from her parents.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Yes - so very wise.

We have the drunk speech already planned, kids are pretty young yet. But that is our same talk - we don't care, we'll fight about it later, but if you are drunk, or if the people you are with are drunk, do not get in the car, call us and we'll get you. We don't care what time it is. We may be annoyed about the circumstances the next day but we want you home safe.

I will probably wind up buying some of the meds when daughter starts dating. I guess. We've already discussed contraception (after they began the sex ed talks in school). But certainly by college age she should be on the pill, I would imagine. This would negate the need for this anyway.

*sigh* for all parents

OMGosh, the same quote, the same time, the same context!!!!

Gosh, its telepathy, or you have a camera in my room, LOOKIT THIS!!!!!

 

[Oblimo]

My daughter's twelve. Once a year, for the past two years, she has come back from school, eyes rolling to the heavens. I ask her what's up, and she says, "We saw..." and she spreads her fingers, palms flat, "...the film today. Even dumber than last year's. I never want to have sex."

"That's because you watch too much Maury Povich."

"Shut up, Dad."

 

[Huckleman2000]

What I always got told and remembered, about drunk driving or being with someone who was drunk driving, was that I could call and face no questions and get a safe ride home that night ........... but catch hell the next day.

He, he. It was nice to know I had that option, and always made me think "responsibly" before having another drink.

I suppose it might be the same with Plan B for a young daughter to have that option from her parents.

Well, you know how you behaved when you were young, and you try to play the odds. (When I was young, 18 was the drinking age, so I think there was probably a lot more shit going on. Still, the shit seems to have been a lot more innocent than what goes on nowadays, but I don't know if that's really the case.)

I will probably wind up buying some of the meds when daughter starts dating. I guess. We've already discussed contraception (after they began the sex ed talks in school). But certainly by college age she should be on the pill, I would imagine. This would negate the need for this anyway.

*sigh* for all parents

I had a son, but I tried to instill the same ideas. People can think, "Oh, he's a boy, he doesn't have to worry." But who wants their son to father unwanted children?

My ex took my son and his girlfriend on a vacation when they were just out of high school, both 18. They stayed in a one-bedroom condo, and she put the two of them in the bedroom with the twin beds pushed together, and just told them not to get busy. (I guess she thought that most relationships were like hers with me. ) Anyways, it kind of bugs me, but they're all adults, so I can't intervene too much except to express my own opinion, but I told my son early on that if he needs to get condoms and felt embarrassed, just let me know. He thought that was funny. His mother still thinks he's a virgin. I'm concerned, but how intrusive can I be?

*sigh* for all parents indeed.

 

[Huckleman2000]

My daughter's twelve. Once a year, for the past two years, she has come back from school, eyes rolling to the heavens. I ask her what's up, and she says, "We saw..." and she spreads her fingers, palms flat, "...the film today. Even dumber than last year's. I never want to have sex."

"That's because you watch too much Maury Povich."

"Shut up, Dad."

ROFL. At least she tells you what's up! I'd take that as a very positive sign.

 

[Liar]

Two thirds of fertilised human ova don't come to term under the most ideal of conditions.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9773/bearkd6.gif http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9773/bearkd6.gif http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9773/bearkd6.gif http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9773/bearkd6.gif http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9773/bearkd6.gif

(bears repeating)



This is why I can't find any argument for "people begin at conception" reasonable, unless possibly for religious reasons, which doesn't require logic.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Well if I had a teenage daughter she'd be locked up in a convent (with very strict nuns) until she's thirty, and then some. {insert own Lit story here}

Thankfully, I don't, but I don't see the downside of offering Plan B to knocked up sluts. Maybe it would divert them from making the bad choices that plague our society. I don't want to pay for another welfare mom that thinks she has the "right" to state money just because she can spawn. Do you?

 

[yevkassem72]

Furiously Defending My Own Views.

So, I offended you guys? Well, that makes two of us. I was a bit angry and offended yesterday at Lisa's suggestion that I was irresponsible for opposing abortion, yet not wanting to adopt. As far as I am concerned, we are even.

Severus, you first attempt to defend me, then you try to dismiss me as a "lunatic", after which you complete your two-faced approach by suggesting that I go to the GB. As I am an aspiring writer, I see no reason to do so. With defenders like you, who needs attackers?

Did I call you people murderers? Not unless you have had abortions. Perhaps it is your guilty consciences at work. I don't know. I think that Mr. Zack's post just confirms what I think. Many in the pro-death camp are prudes in their own way, or at least adamantly oppposed to the procreative principle for some odd reason. Anything to avoid pregnancy and preserve their materialistic pursuit of the Almighty Dollar. Not that I have anything against money or wealth, but when you will take a life for it, how are you better than any other criminals?

It is clear that I struck a nerve. However, when you start a thread like this, Miss Denton, you invite strong controversy and opposing views. Especially from what Severus so perceptively called a "man of character and strong convictions".

For the record, my "congenial" post on the Career Women thread is because I am mostly liberal in my politics. My only opposition is to abortion. It is not a religious thing, as I am an agnostic (despite a brief flirtation with Islam). It is simply a firm belief that life begins at, if not conception, somewhere very close to it. Your own President Reagan issued a Proclamation to this effect in 1988, I might add. Many great people oppose abortion on principle, including some prominent women.

For the record, I was noting that children born to rapists are not guilty of the rape committed by their fathers. Hence, they should not be punished (certainly not with the death penalty) for their father's crimes. Here is where I must part company with the "women's agenda", which seems to be in favor of ANYTHING that will inconvenience women in any way. That seems to include motherhood. Well, there are more important things than convenience, damn it! Human life, for starters!

No, Sarah, it was not a "hate-spewing attack" on you, or anyone else. Nor was it from nowhere. It came from what some might call "righteous indignation" at the defamation of the pro-life camp by militant pro-deathers, to paraphrase what Sev said earlier.

I regret that you find my principles offensive. I also regret that you saw fit to offend me as well. It is too bad that my previous affection and respect for you is neither deserved nor returned. Such a tragedy. Too bad.

But I WILL NOT "go back to lurking". Nor will I retreat to this infamous "GB". I am an aspiring smut writer with my own principles and passion, and I intend to use that to present some dissenting views, whether you or others want dissenting views or not. Because it IS a free country and I have a right to my own damned views, thank you very much!

No Soup For You!

 

[cloudy]

No Soup For You!

oh, gee....that hurts.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

oh, gee....that hurts.

Drumroll for the sarcasm...yeah, me too. I have plenty of my own soup. LOL.

So, I am "two-faced"? Well, suck me sideways! What the fuck do YOU know about me, you venomous, vitriolic villain! (Sorry, folks, couldn't resist the use of Vs like that.) Your asinine remarks to Sarah and Lisa strike me as frankly a product of a thwarted crush. You realize that some of the women that you've mooned over while lurking don't share your views on abortion! And that's somehow a tragedy! Get over yourself, fool. Like I said, go to the GB, if you haven't already. They would welcome you with open....jaws.

So, you're offended. That's one thing. But you didn't indicate that or stipulate that you weren't personally attacking them. That strikes me as unwise and impolite. But that may just be your style. I don't know. Just, go fuck yourself and leave the AH the hell alone. Maybe you have some talent as a writer, but I wouldn't recommend coming back here for a while AFTER you've posted a worthwhile story (preferably one that shows some common sense).

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Just, go fuck yourself and leave the AH the hell alone. Maybe you have some talent as a writer, but I wouldn't recommend coming back here for a while AFTER you've posted a worthwhile story (preferably one that shows some common sense).

Maybe you shouldn't be speaking for the AH...