plausible human sexual behavior

[Statius]

I absolutely agree. I was speaking less to the reader plausibility issue, and more that it's pretty hard to outbonkers the universe. She's a tricksy beast who, just when you think you've come up with maximal unlikelihood, throws a meteorite that blows up 1500 square miles of Siberia and kills almost nobody.

Humans are much the same. Just when you think it can't get any crazier than two girls, one cup, a guy decides to do one guy, one jar...

https://tenor.com/bBj1T.gif

 

[TheLobster]

someone's probably topped your crazy scenario,

Or bottomed, given we're talking about sex.

Something like a heptapod (from Arrival) is more plausible than going halfway across the universe and finding an alien that's a human with slightly pointy ears on a planet almost nothing like Earth.

Strictly speaking, you don't know that. We only have a sample size of one when it comes to studying how evolution works on a planetary level and how it can produce technological species. Human intelligence and our success in dominating the food chain is very much related to our body, not just brains (upright posture, opposable thumbs, dextrous limbs in general), so it's not too far-fetched too think that other technological species which evolved on land in vaguely similar conditions would be similar to us.

And from what we can discern, based on life on Earth, the "land" part is pretty important. We got animals here who are probably just as intelligent as humans, but their oceanic environment stunts them in terms of what they can do technologically. Aquatic heptapods who communicate using blotches of ink and yet manage to progress technology all the way to interstellar travel therefore seem less plausible to me than pointy eared humanoids who evolved on a slightly more arid, slightly hotter planet than Earth with a bit less dense atmosphere.

But you could set it up where this alien grew up watching Earth as part of an observation post and in her free time watched football games, so she really comes to appreciate the sport. (...)

Heh, I got an alien intern who comes to an observation post in my story and gets a little too fascinated with human sexual behavior These are fun ideas to explore.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Strictly speaking, you don't know that. We only have a sample size of one when it comes to studying how evolution works on a planetary level and how it can produce technological species. Human intelligence and our success in dominating the food chain is very much related to our body, not just brains (upright posture, opposable thumbs, dextrous limbs in general), so it's not too far-fetched too think that other technological species which evolved on land in vaguely similar conditions would be similar to us.

Strictly speaking, if the universe is infinite, given there's only a finite number of possible particle configurations, the universe completely repeats on extremely large scales, and given that in this scenario, as mentioned, space is infinite, that means there are an infinite number of versions of us and other aliens that are almost identical to us, thereby making my statement not only demonsterably false, but monsterably false.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Heh, I got an alien intern who comes to an observation post in my story and gets a little too fascinated with human sexual behavior These are fun ideas to explore.

I liked that one.

 

[anthrodisiac]

https://tenor.com/bBj1T.gif

Oh thank God! There was a moment I thought you'd linked to one guy, one jar, and I was so scared that I had to click to find out if my panic was for naught.

Fucking PHEW!

 

[Whanmore]

I'm fine with real world implausibility, fantasy and sci-fi, but I'm pretty sensitive to whether or not a human body can do the things described. If I can't figure out how you can get this part in that part while simultaneously caressing in this way, that takes me right out of the story.

I do spend alot of time on that. Making sure the reader can figure out what the hell is happening. How often you yall mention a left hand or right hand grabbing a tit as oppsed to just saying "a hand? DO you specify which side a person is sitting on? Sometimes I think I'm doing too much. Other times I'm halfway through a scene and I'm like "Can my reader even follow these movements?"

 

[anthrodisiac]

I do spend alot of time on that. Making sure the reader can figure out what the hell is happening. How often you yall mention a left hand or right hand grabbing a tit as oppsed to just saying "a hand? DO you specify which side a person is sitting on? Sometimes I think I'm doing too much. Other times I'm halfway through a scene and I'm like "Can my reader even follow these movements?"

We should be writing, not choreographing a play.* There was a woman in my writers group like that. He went to the kitchen, opened the cabinent, pulled out the glass, brought the glass to the sink, turned on the faucet, filled up the glass partway...

Then, finally, twenty paragraphs later he took the damn drink. Even Bob Fosse was like, "Rebecca, chill."

I forgot to mention Bob Fosse was in my writers group.

*I'm just as guilty of this.

 

[TheLobster]

He went to the kitchen, opened the cabinent, pulled out the glass, brought the glass to the sink, turned on the faucet, filled up the glass partway...

Detailed narration of mundane actions can be a great way to show a character trying very hard to ignore or not to think about something that's nagging them. But yeah, if you're just writing like that all the time, readers gonna nope out when they realize you describe the character cooking a meal in such detail, it's practically a recipe.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Detailed narration of mundane actions can be a great way to show a character trying very hard to ignore or not to think about something that's nagging them. But yeah, if you're just writing like that all the time, readers gonna nope out when they realize you describe the character cooking a meal in such detail, it's practically a recipe.

There's detailed narration of the mundane as a device, and then there's Rebecca.

I actually do know some writers who have done basically how to cook a meal in their book, and their readers friggin' loved it. Raved about it.

Two guesses whose book it was...

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Heh, I got an alien intern who comes to an observation post in my story and gets a little too fascinated with human sexual behavior These are fun ideas to explore.

I'm now envisaging a guy being kidnapped by aliens and failing to hide his disappointment at the lack of anal probing, leading the alien to try psychoanalysis to figure out what is it with humans and the anal alien probe obsession. Which may of course lead to some orifices being probed.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think what bothers people is logical inconsistency. There's an example from Game of Thrones. Everyone was fine with their being dragons, but there were complaints when one guy somehow managed to run several hundred miles to get help in a single day. You establish dragons are real in your universe, people will accept it. What they often won't accept is if you break your own rules.

There are definitely people who won't accept anything unrealistic from real life though. I stated up front that my story universe has no STI's. And I've gotten comments complaining about that. You can't please everyone, but you should strive for logical consistency.

I think logical consistency is part of something broader here. In storytelling, miracles can happen, but they have to be earned, and often "this is unrealistic" actually translates to "this is unearned".

There's a story I read recently, where a woman escapes an abusive relationship and moves to a desert town somewhere around New Mexico and discovers that spirits are real. She interacts with a powerful spirit or maybe a small god that becomes hostile, things get bad. She ends up asking some of the other local spirits to intercede, and Scorpion (among others) goes in to bat for her.

Presented like that, it's a pretty unsatisfying deus ex machina: she can't save herself, so this powerful spirit that she's only just met comes in to help her.

But back in the first couple of chapters, when she's just moving into this town and still emotionally wrecked by her past relationship, there's a scorpion in the stove of her new house. Rather than just light the stove and kill it, she picks up this scorpion with a spatula and lets it go outside. A couple of other times along the way, she finds another scorpion in the house and takes it outside; even though she's barely functional enough to feed herself she still has time for kindness to a creature that will never understand it. So when she gets to that scene later in the book, Scorpion remembers that she was merciful to its children, and takes her side.

One can frame this as making it more "realistic" that this spirit would help her, and at one level that'd be true. But at a deeper storytelling level, what's happening here is that her salvation is earned through her own actions and that's generally a much more satisfying resolution to the reader.

In fantasy you can have dragons. But a hero who wants a dragon buddy, they can't just go down to the dragon shop and buy a pet dragon all trained and ready for heroics. They'll have to put in a lot of work so the reader feels they've earned it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If the OP is asking whether there are certain kinds of sexual experiences or behaviors that are just too outlandish to be the basis for an erotic story, I would say No. In that regard, I think there are no limits. If you want to write a story about a guy with a sexual fetish for women's ear wax, do it. You probably won't have a large appreciative audience, but that doesn't mean you can't write an effective story.

But if he has a fetish for men's ear wax, it still needs to go in GM.

 

[AG31]

My current library book is annoyingly full of contrivances, adults who were friends in childhood happen to end up in the same remote location for unconnected reasons, where one is investigating a murder; the police woman MC's parents are connected to the murder in totally unrelated ways; MC's awful father wants her to clear him. I'm sticking with it because I'm interested in the characters.

This got me thinking about this thread and "implausibility." Here's what I came up with.

- Frankly non-realistic stories, sci-fi and fantasy. No problem with implausibility here as long as the story sticks to the internal logic of the set up.

- Contrived stories (see above), where events and characteristics are clearly plunked into the narrative just to create plot movement. I can tolerate it if there is some other reason to stick with the story. In talking about writing, is "contrived" the opposite of "organic?"

- Lazy/sloppy writing, where physically impossible things are posited. See my reply in this thread. "If I can't figure out how you can get this part in that part while simultaneously caressing in this way, that takes me right out of the story."

- The author demands a willing suspension of disbelief. As in the number of murders occurring in Midsomer County or Cabot Cove, or the way Lincoln Rhyme can locate the source of trace material in Manhattan. It's pretty easy to suspend disbelief if the story is told well.

Have I overlooked some?

 

[Britva415]

We should be writing, not choreographing a play.* There was a woman in my writers group like that. He went to the kitchen, opened the cabinent, pulled out the glass, brought the glass to the sink, turned on the faucet, filled up the glass partway...

Then, finally, twenty paragraphs later he took the damn drink. Even Bob Fosse was like, "Rebecca, chill."

I forgot to mention Bob Fosse was in my writers group.

*I'm just as guilty of this.

Nice.

This is along the lines of what I mean when I talk about the "police sketch artist instructions" version of describing a character.

 

[Britva415]

often "this is unrealistic" actually translates to "this is unearned".

That's a great insight.

"Plausible" is a synonym for "authentic."

 

[AG31]

My current library book is annoyingly full of contrivances, adults who were friends in childhood happen to end up in the same remote location for unconnected reasons, where one is investigating a murder; the police woman MC's parents are connected to the murder in totally unrelated ways; MC's awful father wants her to clear him. I'm sticking with it because I'm interested in the characters.

This got me thinking about this thread and "implausibility." Here's what I came up with.

- Frankly non-realistic stories, sci-fi and fantasy. No problem with implausibility here as long as the story sticks to the internal logic of the set up.

- Contrived stories (see above), where events and characteristics are clearly plunked into the narrative just to create plot movement. I can tolerate it if there is some other reason to stick with the story. In talking about writing, is "contrived" the opposite of "organic?"

- Lazy/sloppy writing, where physically impossible things are posited. See my reply in this thread. "If I can't figure out how you can get this part in that part while simultaneously caressing in this way, that takes me right out of the story."

- The author demands a willing suspension of disbelief. As in the number of murders occurring in Midsomer County or Cabot Cove, or the way Lincoln Rhyme can locate the source of trace material in Manhattan. It's pretty easy to suspend disbelief if the story is told well.

Have I overlooked some?

I would add - Flimsy motivations

 

[anthrodisiac]

I would add - Flimsy motivations

Deus ex machina.

Unless it's a literal god hand that you set up as part of in-world logic, where you foreshadowed it, then it's clearly a, "Uh-oh, I backed myself into a corner. Quick, uh, uh... someone left this über-powerful laser gun lying right here and it just so happens to be the only thing that cuts through the bad guy's force field! ZAP!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

My current library book is annoyingly full of contrivances, adults who were friends in childhood happen to end up in the same remote location for unconnected reasons, where one is investigating a murder; the police woman MC's parents are connected to the murder in totally unrelated ways; MC's awful father wants her to clear him. I'm sticking with it because I'm interested in the characters.

Getting back to my "gotta earn it" argument, I think a coincidence that sets up a storyline (inciting incident) feels very different to one that resolves it.

Suppose I were to write a story about a guy who's travelling far away from home, decides to hire an escort, and she turns out to be his long-lost cousin/childhood best friend/whatever. If the meat of the story is in how the two of them react to that unlikely encounter, I don't think many people would object to it.

But if I write a story where somebody needs a kidney transplant, and then it turns out his best friend is his long-lost sibling who got adopted out and they're a perfect tissue match, then readers are much more likely to call bullshit.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Getting back to my "gotta earn it" argument, I think a coincidence that sets up a storyline (inciting incident) feels very different to one that resolves it.

Suppose I were to write a story about a guy who's travelling far away from home, decides to hire an escort, and she turns out to be his long-lost cousin/childhood best friend/whatever. If the meat of the story is in how the two of them react to that unlikely encounter, I don't think many people would object to it.

But if I write a story where somebody needs a kidney transplant, and then it turns out his best friend is his long-lost sibling who got adopted out and they're a perfect tissue match, then readers are much more likely to call bullshit.

I like to think of it in terms of fictional multiverses. There are a near infinite number of variations on the story (limited purely because there are a finite number of physical configurations before the story variants repeat perfectly), but the one you decided to tell has a particular set of circumstances that came together just right to make that particular story. The vast majority of them are not going to be that interesting, and so wouldn't make for good stories. But the handfuls that do work, it's possible they aren't very likely.

So while it may seem implausible, as long as it's possible within the universe's in-world physics, I'm willing to suspend belief if the story is well done.

I completely agree that a coincidence that just happens to resolve the main tension feels more wavy-hand deus ex machina than something, and is thus very likely to be unearned, which also makes it uninteresting.

Butchanging story beats and event sequence can also impact what people are willing to suspend disbelief for, and make the same overall narrative with the same level of unlikelihood go from eye-roll deus ex machina to narratively compelling and satisifying.

Let's use your example:

But if I write a story where somebody needs a kidney transplant, and then it turns out his best friend is his long-lost sibling who got adopted out and they're a perfect tissue match, then readers are much more likely to call bullshit.

Now for that particular story, you could still have that outcome, but if you were to frame it differently, that negates some of the wavy-handedness. Rather than BFF turns out to be his long-lost sibling who was adopted, he finds out, and then decides to give him a kidney.

Story: Guy needs kidney transplant, his best friend offers to give him his if it's a match. They go in, it turns out he's a perfect match, but there's something else. Not only is he a perfect match, but their DNA is incredibly similar (I get that's not really how it works, but we're just doing this as an example of how changing the circumstances with the exact same plot can turn it from "okay, sure, dude" to "oh, wow, how unlikely, but interesting."

Granted, this is all still fairly unlikely and wavy-handy, but I think:
BFF > Guy needs kidney > BFF immediately offers to donate his > They get test, turns out he's a match > But wait, we did some extra testing for whatever reason, and it turns out you're long-lost siblings > Kidney transplant; family reunited

is more narratively palatable/interesting than

Guy Needs kidney > Surprise, I'm your long-lost sibling; family reunited > Cool, now you can give me your kidney! > Test just to make sure; yep, all good > Kidney transplant

Doesn't change the unlikeliness or the overall story of guy finds out BFF is long-lost sibling, who gives him his kidney, but the sequence of events makes it more narratively compelling. It also puts the reunion at the end, which is a nice wrap up of both guy gets to live and he's found a sibling he never knew he had, making their bond even stronger.

Hence we go from deus ex machina "you're my sibling, how fortunate, now you can give me your kidney, thanks for the kidney" to a sweet "you're going to give me your kidney anyway, and it turns out my BFF is also my family, and now our bond is even stronger for it." It's more a story of selflessness leading to discovering that the BFF is your sibling, and yet that changes nothing because you always felt you were family the whole time.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Why not? I have done stories where people behaved as normal people would, and received great feedback. People enjoy a story where nothing too LIT happened. A husband and wife are out and have an adventure and don't fuck anyone else, having a great time on their own. It's a fun story and readers liked it.

There is room for everything in erotica and readers who will appreciate it.

And yet, there are still those who can find fault with anything you write.

Note: I did this one the way everyone likes them. Will anyone give me an attagirl for it?

 

[anthrodisiac]

And yet, there are still those who can find fault with anything you write.

Note: I did this one the way everyone likes them. Will anyone give me an attagirl for it?

Attagirl!

Interesting historical tidbit: Attagirl is a contraction of Attenborough Girl.

 

[MillieDynamite]

OIC

Attagirl!

Interesting historical tidbit: Attagirl is a contraction of Attenborough Girl.

Curses, I'm back to old habits.

 

[Statius]

And yet, there are still those who can find fault with anything you write.

Note: I did this one the way everyone likes them. Will anyone give me an attagirl for it?

PFFFTTT! On conformity. Do it your way.

 

[Rob_Royale]

And yet, there are still those who can find fault with anything you write.

Note: I did this one the way everyone likes them. Will anyone give me an attagirl for it?

Well Mel Brooks taught us that right after the first artist was born the first critic.

 

[TheLobster]

Doesn't change the unlikeliness or the overall story of guy finds out BFF is long-lost sibling, (...)

It does. In the second version, you need some additional precipitating incident at:

> Surprise, I'm your long-lost sibling;

to force reveal of this unknown family relationship without the DNA test. That's an extra contrivance in the form of independent event, so it does, in fact, make the second variant more unlikely.