Please help dealing with feelings that I can't act on

[SubNebGuy]

What's going to make you happy in life?

a. Freedom to make choices
b. Being a slave to outdated religous beliefs

In other words, are you living life for YOU, or others?

Here's a tip: being content based on keeping other people happy is no way to live your life.

 

[pplwatching]

My issue here isn't that a mixed family will/won't work out, but rather that I am leaning towards agnosticism on the religious front and the thing stopping me doing what I really want to is my parents and the community where I live (they are also pretty religious where attendance in church is like 80%!)

I am tonight going to see one of our friends who is in sort of the same predicament - she is Hindu and dating a non-Hindu boy. I want to find out how it is going with her family and what she sees is the future for her relationship.

When I was a child my family raised me as a Catholic. In high school and then after, I drifted towards agnosticism. I don't think that I stepped into a church for the better part of 15 years, and my mom was none too happy about it. I became a minster in the Universal Life Church (and never told her about it) because I liked the idea of not being stereotyped by a religious brand name. I was what I was.

When my wife and I got married we planned a non-denominational ceremony (she isn't devoutly religious either). At that point I read an article on how new parents were flocking back to their parent's religions, because they didn't want their children to be raised without faith. New parents were returning to the religion that they knew. It really made me think and talk to my (then) fiance' about it.

It's one thing to live an agnostic life, believe what I wanted, and how I wanted. It was another thing entirely to contemplate the idea of asking my children to find their own way. I came to the conclusion that one of my obligations as a parent would be to teach my children about God and religion, regardless of my personal feelings on the matter. It was a very difficult decision but we concluded that while we weren't your typical church-going couple, that we were going to have to take it on faith that we were both the people we were because our parents gave us a religious upbringing. We did not want to deny our children that. In the end, we decided that we had to have faith that giving our children the gift of faith was the right thing to do. If that makes any sense. I guess in other words, we decided that we wanted our children to learn about God from us, and not a charismatic preacher that they happened to cross paths with some day.

So, my wife and I chose to raise them as Catholics. We were married in a Catholic ceremony (tho my wife did not convert). "Catholic marrying non-Catholic, but Christian, for this life only" they called it. A chain smoking former merchant marine was our pre-cana instructor. He had tatoos up one side and down the other, but he spoke my language and I knew that we had made the right choice. My wife won brownie points with my mom by asking her to help with the Catholic parts of raising kids. My mom told/reminded us when it was time for baptism, to start religious ed, and first communion. We do our best to attend mass, but honestly don't make it as often as we probably should. I try to answer my kid's questions about religion as honestly as I can, but I am careful not to confuse them with my own walk of faith. If they ask me again when they are older, I will tell them then.

I don't know if that helps you, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. You do not have to be "pro-religion" or "anti-religion". There is a beautiful spectrum of colors out there, and the only constant in life is that everything changes. You can only live for yourself but when you have kids you are living for them too.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't tell this gal that you're going to see that you're smitten with your lady-friend. Ask if she's heard from her, yes. Mention that you're looking forward to seeing her again, yes. But some ladies get a little miffed if you don't have the cajones to ask for yourself.

Good luck. I have walked in your shoes.

 

[Mac98]

Talk about it with your parents. If they're open enough, maybe they'll understand.

"You don't wanna' live your life wondernig what coulda' been."

-Peter Griffin-

 

[SweetErika]

When my wife and I got married we planned a non-denominational ceremony (she isn't devoutly religious either). At that point I read an article on how new parents were flocking back to their parent's religions, because they didn't want their children to be raised without faith. New parents were returning to the religion that they knew. It really made me think and talk to my (then) fiance' about it.

It's one thing to live an agnostic life, believe what I wanted, and how I wanted. It was another thing entirely to contemplate the idea of asking my children to find their own way. I came to the conclusion that one of my obligations as a parent would be to teach my children about God and religion, regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.

Interesting.

I'm sure we would have a terrible time teaching our kids something we didn't believe in.

My husband was raised much like you're raising your kids, from what it sounds like, and he's a pretty firm atheist now. From about 16 on, he started learning about different belief systems and decided organized religion wasn't for him on his own, even though his parents continued to force him to go to church. And because his parents made him do the church thing all those years (just like their parents did, even though one of Hubby's grandpas was an atheist), he refuses to go now unless it's absolutely necessary (like a wedding or funeral).

I was raised agnostic, with infrequent visits to different churches to learn about various religions. I'm no fan of organized religion for myself, but I'm not opposed to it like my husband is. I think being raised to have faith in myself and people in general, explore different belief systems, follow some basic rules about being a good person, think critically and keep an open mind about all sorts of things made me more spiritual and open to finding the right path for myself at any given point. Because I wasn't forced into any belief system in childhood, I've never felt the need to conform or rebel, unlike my husband.

At any rate, our child will undoubtedly be raised very much like I was, and we'll likely make Sunday a day of learning and family time.

 

[pplwatching]

I'm sure we would have a terrible time teaching our kids something we didn't believe in.

I am a walking contradicton, I know. Every conversation that I have about religion with my kids is a challenge. However, it's not that I don't believe (which would make me an athiest). It's just that I can't prove or disprove the existance of God or of any particular miracle or event in the bible. So I put on my Catholic hat and teach them as best as I can. All I can say is that I lean on my faith a lot more than I do my religion.

 

[RuneBlade]

You don't see that as lying? If I'm in a dark room with a box, and I was told the box is red even though I've never seen it, and you tell someone that the box is red, then you're passing on something that isn't necessarily true.

Granted, the example makes about as much sense as tits on a bull, but work with me here.


This is a bit more serious than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

 

[SweetErika]

I am a walking contradicton, I know. Every conversation that I have about religion with my kids is a challenge. However, it's not that I don't believe (which would make me an athiest). It's just that I can't prove or disprove the existance of God or of any particular miracle or event in the bible. So I put on my Catholic hat and teach them as best as I can. All I can say is that I lean on my faith a lot more than I do my religion.

Why not teach them just that, then?

If you did the religious thing and found your way to agnosticism, then why not teach your kids to have faith in a variety of different things while you're educating them about different religions, including Catholicism?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just trying to understand your POV (and, perhaps by proxy, why my in-laws did the same kind of thing).

 

[pplwatching]

You don't see that as lying? If I'm in a dark room with a box, and I was told the box is red even though I've never seen it, and you tell someone that the box is red, then you're passing on something that isn't necessarily true.

If I knew for a fact that the box wasn't red and told you that it was, then I would be lying. If I didn't know the color, but someone I knew and trusted had previously told me the color then I have to choose wether or no to pass on that information. "Trust" being my observation of their beliefs, their faith, and the positive impact that religion has had on their lives.

Why not teach them just that, then? I don't expect anyone to understand it when I don't completely understand it myself. I don't know if it's a red box or a blue ball, but I have a responsibility to my children. I firmly believe that my kids will benefit from sharing what my parents, grandparents, brothers, and sisters and some pretty incredible people that I've met over the years believe. For them faith is knowing that the box exists and is red without having to see it or even touch it. I hope that my kids will learn to have that kind of faith. I believe that kind of faith will help them in their personal relationships. I feel that I can best instill it in them by raising them this way.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Once again, thanks for the input everyone.

My issue here isn't that a mixed family will/won't work out, but rather that I am leaning towards agnosticism on the religious front and the thing stopping me doing what I really want to is my parents and the community where I live (they are also pretty religious where attendance in church is like 80%!)

I need to start living my life for ME, not for everyone else BUT me.

I have now a 2 month period of time where she is gone away to where she lives for the summer, and I want to use this time effectively to sort out MYSELF and what I want.

I am tonight going to see one of our friends who is in sort of the same predicament - she is Hindu and dating a non-Hindu boy. I want to find out how it is going with her family and what she sees is the future for her relationship.
I think also I am going to tell her (my friend tonight) how I am feeling and see what she thinks is good to do since she is best friends with the girl I can't stop thinking about. . . . .

Wish me luck!
Jay

I hope it all goes well.

You're young and just starting out with your life. You can take any path you choose. There's no reason for you to live out your days in the 80% churchgoing area you're in. If things do progress with your girl, a little distance from your family might be a good way to keep tension to a minimum. If you stay in the same town, you'll be on their mind and defying their way of life whether you continue to attend church or never set foot in the place again. I think that to be out of their congregational catchment area at least would be a very wise move or you'll continue to be a subject of local gossip.

If you do decide to date this girl, you need to take steps to become self sufficient. The less you rely on your family, the less they can hold over you in order to make you toe the line. Get financially independent and get your own roof if you don't already have one. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, it just has to be yours so that your life choices are outside their influence.

Read around other philosophies, science and evolutionist's theories about how life came about an evolved. Make your own choice about what you believe because only then can you make a definitive choice about how you will handle the issue of religion in the future, as pplwatcher said.

 

[cowboy5]

You have all been so helpful for me the past few days.

It was not my intention to kick off some sort of religious argument since everyone seems to have the same proofs and counter proofs so I leave that for the religiously minded.

Myself, I just think that religion is an old coping mechanism that humans developed. If you believed that when people die they go to heaven, it is a lot easier on you when they die than thinking about them decomposing and being eaten by bugs.
As for organised religion. If that is your cup of tea then go right ahead! I'm not gonna stop you doing what you want (free country etc).

I didn't get a chance last night to speak to our friend since her roomate was around and I didn't want to get into it with her too. I did have a brief discussion with my roomate though and he was quite positive about the whole affair.
I think the real reason this is bugging me so much now is that I dropped her off at the airport the other week for her to catch her flight home. There was so much that I wanted to say, and yet I bit my tongue. I said almost nothing even though there was a lump in my throat as I watched her leave for 2 months. I can't really describe it, but it is possibly the closest I have been to crying in about a year.
For right now I cannot call this girl and speak with her. I mean, this needs to be done face to face and I am NOT going to do it online or on the phone.

I think my plan of action is to sort out myself (I have booked a holiday to get away from all of this and the complications) and just figure myself out. Then, face the music when she comes back here. I can see a bit of a long conversation in our future, but hopefully it will allow me ot know esxactly where I am standing.

I'm still going to be talking to our joint friend some time this weekend, and I hope that maybe she can work another angle and provide some inout into this.

Once again, thankyou all so much for helping. Just typing out my responses in some way helps me to deal with this situation.
You're the best!
Jay

 

[ScottyS]

Getting in touch with yourself alone is a great idea. I hope it works out.

The whole not talking to her for two months thing doesn't sound like such a great idea to me, though. I mean, you two might have some kind of rapport, but that only goes so far. She could possibly take it the wrong way if you make no effort to contact her at all. Now, I could just be a little paranoid about this because once made the mistake of dropping off the face of the planet at exactly the wrong time and ruining what could have been a great relationship (there were other factors beyond my control, though, but the last thing you want to do is lose your VOICE when there are so many voices in people's lives, affecting their judgement). But that's just my opinion.

 

[rainbowgirl1028]

I agree with the last poster; I don't think it's wise to not talk to her at all. I think you should try to find balance between having time to sort things out for yourself, and communicating with her. the last thing you want, I'm sure, is for her to think something is wrong.

 

[cowboy5]

oh, I think I must have just not explained myself properly.

We've chatted on skype and email, but I'm not bringing this up when it's not face-to-face

 

[midwestyankee]

Cowboy, you're getting way ahead of yourself here. If she's half the woman she thinks you are, then she'll accept your request for a real date at face value. It won't ruin your friendship if you ask and she says no thank you.

And if you start dating, it could easily be a year or more before either of you is in a position to begin wondering about the other as a life partner.

Hold your horses and just enjoy the ride, pardner.

 

[cowboy5]

Hey again!

I think it's time for an update.
I have now called my friend and had a bit of a talk. I think it went well, and I felt pretty good about things the other day.

Tonight I sent her an SMS message which basically said
'You are now far away, but close in my heart'

I can only think (hope) that she has gone already to sleep since I didn't get a response and it IS the middle of the night for her.
Now I'm a bit concerned that I may have crossed a line. . . . .

I'll let you know tomorrow how it's gone

 

[shiny5437]

Goodluck mate!

Let us know how it goes. I hope it works out for you.

 

[cowboy5]

Well, it's been quite some time and it is time for an update I think.

So, I've been away for a week with some time taken to clear my mind and just relax a bit.

The progress is like this so far. The girl is just now dating someone else we were at university with who is in the year above who is christian - this has me thinking two things.
One, she is not into me (and therefore now I have all the fun of getting over her )
Two, she has no issue to date non-Hindu.

This has me now a little bit in a pickle. I've got to get over her before we restart university in the middle of September else this situation will clearly drive me mad. However, I don't want to be the one there who is basically her boyfriend but we don't go out. To explain, some of our friends think that we actually WERE dating in the past few months. It is a situation that makes me so MAD inside!

So, are there now some tips for getting over this girl from a romantic standpoint and yet remain friends with her since we will be always together again from next month on.

Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me

 

[ScottyS]

In situations like this, there are just so many things you can't know. You could ask, but then you risk making things awkward. But from what you said, you have no reason to believe that she was never into you or still isn't. I tend to think that the less you say in pickles like this, the better. I'd let it play out, keep being the same person around her that you always were, though it is damn hard. but if she doesn't get into a serious relationship with this other guy, after the skies are clear again inside you, then try to smoothly turn the heat up in your relationship.

Like I mentioned before, I was in a somewhat similar situation. Basically I'm living out the advice that i just gave you, only i have the disadvantage of having made a serious mistake; i let it slip to a friend how hurt I was by the girl seeing someone else, and this friend happened to be her cousin, and a bit of an overexaggerator. he led her to believe that I was absolutely heartbroken. I was heartbroken in a way, but her knowing that didn't help my cause. if i had realized that before, i would have done as i advised you just now. but that's just my advice.

 

[gloriann]

What's going to make you happy in life?

a. Freedom to make choices
b. Being a slave to outdated religous beliefs

In other words, are you living life for YOU, or others?

Here's a tip: being content based on keeping other people happy is no way to live your life.

I really could not have answered this better myself (the living life for yourself part.) Live your life so YOU'RE proud of it. On your last day on earth, is anything else going to matter?

 

[cowboy5]

In situations like this, there are just so many things you can't know. You could ask, but then you risk making things awkward. But from what you said, you have no reason to believe that she was never into you or still isn't. I tend to think that the less you say in pickles like this, the better. I'd let it play out, keep being the same person around her that you always were, though it is damn hard. but if she doesn't get into a serious relationship with this other guy, after the skies are clear again inside you, then try to smoothly turn the heat up in your relationship.

Scotty:
I was thinking that this is what is gonna hapen either way. I don't think that she is serious with this other guy since they are going out now only that she is in another country and he is still here. We have talked once or twice about the situation with him (ie, that she is far away from him and next year he is moving to another town quite far so they won't be together even when she comes back here).
The number one thing is that I don't want to screw up the friendship with her. We've had a lot of fun together and before I started to hang out with her so much and have such strong feelings for her I really enjoyed it.

I just don't want to miss this chance at finding someone special - it has happened to me once before about 3 years ago and in this case the girl was killed in a road accident. Since then I've not been out with anyone else and not even really considerd going out with people. I have mostly concentrated on work and studies, to such an extent that my mom has been concerned that I don't get out enough!

Anyway, thanks for listening to my rants and any more help would be greatly appreciated.
All the best

 

[NightL]

Cheers to all who contributed to this thread with sensitivity...

I can not imagine your dilemma at all... the situation of having others imposing values would and have had me running in the opposite direction hard and fast.

The one person you should have talked to before any was actually your uncle. The very first question could have been "Are you happy?".

If the opportunity arises, it is still not too late to tell her how you feel and how you agonised over the situation. You may even regain the friendship... It might be the very thing she was waiting to hear all along. You will not embarrass yourself by telling her "I wish the outcome was different, I regret not acting on my feelings earlier".

The very fact you mentioned that you are attending university indicates you are young, and in my world it is actually very unlikely that relationships of such an age develop into life long unions. She will no doubt move on from her current relationship and you will most certainly fall in love again. I also realise what I have just written will be of no consolation for you right at this moment of confusion.

 

[ScottyS]

there's always a tradeoff. i've been on the same path, just focusing on other more important aspects of life, not thinking at all about women, relationships, etc. one day i realized, though, that staying snuggly in our little safe zones can fuck us, big time. with more experience comes more pain. with more pain comes more experience. but you may realize eventually that you're strong, you can deal with emotions without them affecting your behavior.

 

[BertrandRussell]

My issue here isn't that a mixed family will/won't work out, but rather that I am leaning towards agnosticism on the religious front and the thing stopping me doing what I really want to is my parents and the community where I live (they are also pretty religious where attendance in church is like 80%!)

No. The thing stopping you is YOU. Your parents cannot stop you. Your community cannot stop you. Only you can stop you from doing what you really want to do.

Twenty years from now, you will look back and ask yourself why you gave a damn about their silly self-rightous opinions.

As several previous posters have said, you usually regret the things that you did not do.

I need to start living my life for ME, not for everyone else BUT me.

A good step in the right direction.

Why do you have to do this face to face? You know what I think? You're just using that as an excuse to put it off.

Your several posts here are a litany of what you think you cannot do: you can't do it because of family...you can't do it because of community...you can't do it because she isn't there in person. Next you'll tell us that you can't do it because of the phase of the moon.

Write to her. Or call her. But do it. Tell you how you feel. For all you know, she has the same feeling for you but can't bring herself to say it either, so she settles for second best.

I want you to think for a minute about the following scenario...

Suppose she does have reciprocal feelings for you. And suppose, some day, twenty years from now, you meet her and she has kids and family and is permanently lost to you. And further suppose that she confides in you how she felt for you, but says that she could never manage the courage to tell you.
How would you feel?

 

[cowboy5]

BertrandRussell

This is the kind of thing I am concerned about. That she is settling for someone else.

The thing is, I love her enough that as long as she is happy with someone (even if it's not me) then I can deal with it. The thing that DOES get to me is that we both have the same feelings for each other and that she is going out with someone else just because we can't be together.

I did call with her again this week just to see how things are going with her and ended up spending about an hour talking about things [the subject of 'us' wasn't brought up though]

My sister gave me a piece of advice that was to just find someone else to go out with. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with this idea since I am trying to fill an emotional hole with someone else and to be honest, the people I am going out kinda feel like a stop-gap until I can go out again with the girl I like so much.

I'm sorry that this is so rambling, I'm just a bit confused about where I am standing and my thoughts are all over the place

 

[ScottyS]

Yeah, very normal feelings to have. About dating other people, though...my opinion would be that right now you're really hurt, so maybe it is best not to go out. But sooner than you probably think, you might find yourself in a middle ground where you still love her but you're not as hurt as you once were, and then you should find people just to go out and have fun with...not necessarily for sex, not necessarily for love, just meeting new poeple and enjoying yourself. That can be good medicine.