Putting the Lust Back Into Love! (ty Bobmi)

[Phoenix Stone]

Hi, first thread newbie here. Sorry to make it so long. What an intro:/ Well, having lurked and read a fair amount here, I feel like I know some of you, can tell you are a nice bunch of folks, and hope someone has some ideas they can tease out that I haven't thought of. The problem behind this thread is the main reason I came to Literotica.

Recently I had what seems to have been a midlife-crisis-related return of libido, unfortunately due to email contact from an old lover -- feelings which I spent the last few months frantically trying to understand and sublimate elsewhere online -- hoping to ultimately bring what I learned back to my 23 year marriage. Well, I managed to avoid both adultery and divorce but not confusion, and am now almost back where I started again, wondering how to get that good feeling without breaking trust or getting involved in any way elsewhere.
This isn't just selfish because I know that if I got blindsided like this once, it could happen again. So, good as I am at squelching my high libido, in fact I seem to do it now automatically, I'm guessing this is a midlife issue that is going to come back in a bad way if I don't do something to make room for it. (Btw, I looked at the midlife threads already. Lots of warnings, not a lot of solutions.)

Here's what I've tried:
More sex -- in fact daily. Our sex life is very good, my problem seems to be about something different. About feeling lustful and passionate, rather than having good sex, per se.
Edge play -- this might be closer. I looked on the web and found I'm attracted to the edgier stuff, more like my fantasies (which I'd like to have be about lovely politically correct couples making love under a waterfall but just aren't) more submission/bondagey stuff, blackmail and others that are even darker. My husband will go along with this somewhat but it isn't his thing.
Communication -- everyone says this, and we work on it. That's how we made it thru the last few months intact. Part of the problem is that he is more visual, I'm more aural. I like reading erotic stories but only really get charged up when I feel like I know the person (so unlike my husband who can look at pics to get off, I'd have to violate our relationship and be interactive to go elsewhere and have it work.) My husband isn't going to be that person I can write stories with, and he doesn't like much talk during sex. (Makes noise though!)
Environment change -- music, sexier clothes, perfume, vibrator, and other stuff to get that lustful feeling every day. This helps some, need to do more.
And have tried Lots of other stuff.
Figured out that part of the problem is my husband and I have always had very diff styles in how we like to deal with sexuality. He likes to compartmentalize. For me, it feels more natural to feel lusty all day and to anticipate. A good anticipation, memory or tease is as important to me as the real thing.

In fact, I'm considering asking him to try writing with me as a two-week onetime experiment, because if he can hook me just once that way, I might be ok.
There was something that happened with my ex that got a hook into me in some way that lust stayed toward him for all these years. It was great to find it wasnt just him though, or the actual sex with him, as 'it' (that hook, or rush or lust or whatever you want to call it) happened with a guy I wrote with online, too, about something quite different, and we never even met or spoke.
It's kind of weird that in all these years with my husband and all the good, even great, sex we've had, nothing has sparked me in quite that way, that rush. Makes me wonder if we'd have to be separated for a while, and writing and anticipating, to have it happen. This is the part I still don't understand. Maybe it's that my husband doesn't tease. Or that I haven't been away from him for long enough to long for him and get myself all aching and stirred up like that.

I wrote about the whole silly delimma that sparked this soul-searching on another thread some. It's hard to write because there are always so many facets to the truth and to reality. My husband is the only guy I've ever been in love with -- had that whole walking on air, making other people sick by being so lovey-dovey and happy, Romeo&Juliet, the first people to ever love so deeply thing, going on for most of our first 5 years together.

There are various things that showed the problem was about me, and not my husband (or the ex-lover). Anway, I've had my warning, and need to act on it. Are there any other people in longterm relationships that managed to weather a sexually-related midlife crisis and survive marriage-intact?

I've just learned so much in the last few months that might be of help to someone else. Wish it was more help to me! Not there yet, but not giving up.

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking outloud here about what to try. It took the longest time to even define the problem. (I've seen people say that once you know what the problem is you're halfway to solving it.)

 

[Ms_Lilith]

I'm not married. Nor have I ever been. And my longest relationship is my current, 2 and a half years. So I have nothing like the perspective that you have.

But I do understand the mismatched libido and mismatched desire thing. I'm edgy, like you. I dig BDSM, edgeplay, multiple partners, etc. My honey is content to make love with me and only me, and before our big journey into each other, he was content with one of three positions: missionary, doggy, or me on top.

About 6 months into our relationship, I started learning more about BDSM, and about my own, edgier desires. Needless to say, this made him suspicious, and it made him a little worried. He felt that he didn't want to engage in those kinds of activities, and it put a strain on our young relationship. So we talked about it. He said that I could play online with people who shared those ideas, and that I could play on the phone. This way, I was at least getting those sides of my libido satisfied, and he and I made love rather often in the more vanilla style that he was accustomed to.

But that stopped being enough for me. I didn't want to share this stuff with some random person on the net. I wanted to share it with him. And after some time, we agreed to try it out. He's a wonderful lover in that he has been so patient and understanding, and I couldn't ask for better.

Some suggestions for you: you say that you and your spouse make love every day, but later you say that maybe you need to have some time apart to make the anticipation greater. Why not just deny yourselves the love-making for a couple days, and in that same time, deny yourselves masturbation, so that by the time you DO make love you'll be so pent up you can't keep your hands off each other. My SO and I have tried this, and it works wonders.

Secondly, he is of a visual nature, and you are of an aural nature. Perhaps you just haven't found the right visual. Maybe you two can rent some porn together that isn't just chicks getting fucked, but some great imagery that involves other things. My honey and I have a porn much like that.. it's a full-length movie (an hour and a half I think), and it's really erotic. I'll ask him for the title, later.. it has some of the things you'd enjoy (some bondage, edgeplay), and some of the things he'd enjoy as well, and none of it is super-hardcore.

Thirdly, how about you speak to your husband about allowing you to engage in computer play with someone, where it is no damage to your relationship?

That's all I've got, I'm sorry.

 

[Bobmi357]

I think Vixenshe's got a good point (umm two of them from the look at her av).

People often make the mistake of mistaking quantity for quality. I would rather make love 1-2 times a week, good long love making, than 7 quick rolls in the hay.

If I understand your post correctly, your libido has returned, but for some reason you find your lovemaking unfufilling.

Sex by itself is just sex. A mechanical act performed by two people in which, hopefully, both will reach an orgasm. Sex, when there is a strong emotional context between the two people becomes something special, something magical if you will. I don't mean to put words into your mouth (or your post), and I hate trying to read between the lines, but it sounds to me like you're trying to say that the romance has vanished from your relationship?

When you reply to that question I'll be better able to formulate a reply.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Thank you two for responding!! So sweet of you, especially when you dont know me and I'm still somewhat confused as to how to even label the problem. (Was considering midlife crisis for one, instead.)

And, btw, I was hoping other people would use this thread as a sort of general 'how to' thread rather than just a 'please help me!' (though, as we're both hurting, it's that, too.) So, please don't feel like you're highjacking the thread if you want to post your own questions/problems in this area -- or have solutions to how to put lust back into love relationships that don't happen to pertain to my situation.
One reason I'm hoping people will do that is that sometimes we stumble on to solutions accidentally when we're somewhere in the right general territory. Brainstorming can work wonders.

Bobmi, it seems to be more a lust problem than a romance one. We still do things like dance or sing together, and I know he loves me with all his heart. I used to think it was a romance problem, because he just doesn't do romance much (and didn't seem to get much out of it when I wrote him love poems or something). To give you an idea of how things stand in that regard, we were talking once in one of those hypothetical talks you have, about why we wouldn't have an affair, and after first explaining that it was so much work to have one relationship, he couldn't see going thru all that trouble to have another at the same time -- he then stopped, looked at me very seriously and said that he couldn't because he doesn't have anything left for anyone else, that he's poured himself into me, everything he is, into me. And gave me a deep hug. Wow. Later when I told him how moved I was about what he said, he responded diffidently that he had been afraid that I'd think he was stalking, for saying that. Stalking. Married 23 years and he's concerned about smothering me, or making me feel like he's stalking if he says something romantic. Do you guys out there get that?? Anyway, I knows that's inside, that that's how he feels about me, about us, so I don't think romance is the problem. (Wouldn't hurt though)

Vixenshe, I've just started exploring the edge stuff, and it may hold some help. I'll have to figure out what I can use pretty much on my own, though, and it's new to me.
The sex every day is very recent and was an attempt at solving the problem which I thought might be due to my stronger libido. My husband surprised me by being so willing! He really doesn't want to lose me, and also is more a man of action.
We've been thru dry spells before -- postpartum sleep deprivation, and my dealing with childhood abuse issues, were the biggies. And those times I thought I needed him to be slow and romantic, when maybe what I needed was fast, passionate, Caveman. He can go a lot longer than me without feeling like he needs sex, and is one who likes to kiss and snuggle just as much, though he is inclined to think about any of these only in bed.

I did play online -- and got myself in trouble, when I started getting confused, emotional, attached. On the other hand, I felt sensual and alive all day, in a way that felt like it was natural to me, that somehow I'd squelched in my marriage, to better fit my husband's style, and because he just doesn't respond well to flirting and teasing (acts disconcerted, jumps, gets silly or ticklish).
It felt so great to write and get flirted with and such, until it got too serious. We cut all that off, and now I feel kind of numb, like part of me is missing.

Am I just spoiled and expecting too much? I hate to admit that while my husband is the love of my life, is a considerate enthusiastic lover, etc. I've never gotten the physical rush of lust from him I've had for others, I guess. I have this deep yearning to feel that again. And somehow, this online guy managed to get to me in that way. I only started corresponding with him to distract myself from what got me into this whole mess -- hearing from an old lover for whom I can feel that same physical lust. My husband is handsome, adorable, loving, can make me cum, is all kinds of wonderful things and yet.... why haven't I gotten that same heat for him? I miss it so. Those kisses where you just feel like you can eat the other person from the inside, that rush of heat that spreads from your pussy to up under your chin or to your ears from just a sentence or a touch.
What is wrong with me? Can I fix this? I've decided not to go anywhere... but if all this lust is dormant in me, I worry a little at the midlife crisis tendency to get onesself in trouble 'accidentally.'
And I miss flirting, dancing on tabletops and being in touch with my lust.
I don't want to spend it 'out there' either, I want to feel it for my sweet, sexy husband.
Best I can do at explaining this right now. It feels good just to get it off my chest.

 

[Bobmi357]

OK, I think I understand where your coming from here.

To begin with, and in order to even talk about this, we need to consider "lust" and "love" as seperate entities. According to most popular literature on the topic, there are three phases to falling in love. Attraction, lust and attachment.

The second phase is briefest, but is extremely intense. Sexinfo101.com describes it thusly;

Remember when you first started dating? The excitement, the passion, the intensity that accompanied every touch and kiss. This feeling is often referred to as ecstasy; a surge of euphoria that sends you soaring, bursting with life, soaking in anticipation and desire. These moments generally occur amid the thrill and excitement of fresh love or lust: in the rush of recklessness, in the abandonment of routine, lost in passionate moments. Or, in the sleepless nights laying awake beside one another touching and talking until the sun peaks over the horizon.

source;
http://www.sexinfo101.com/da_passion.shtml

In reality, this particular phase is caused by the release of neurochemicals in your brain. Its not something you can buy in a pill form, nor is there a tonic or over the counter medication that can replicate it. Its something that happens in our brains that we are only beginning to understand.

The period of lust varies from person to person, but most scientists agree that it cannot continue for more than a year or two at the most. The brain just isn't setup to handle such long term exposure to these chemicals without becoming temporarily or partially immune to their effects.

These feelings are triggered when we experience something new that we find pleasing. The downside of all this, is that initial "lust high" we all feel when we meet up with our lovers eventually fades into a "comfortable" feeling.

Some people get addicted to this "lust high" and waltz through life making and breaking relationships as soon as things start to get stale. Others settle into the comfort zone and never look back.

I think that we all would like to recover that "lust high" from time to time, but its a goal that we can at best, only briefly recapture. Who knows? It may not be possible recover those feelings with the same person you've lived with for the past 2, 10, 20, or 50 years. I am not a neurobiologist with a specialty in neurochemistry, so I can't say for sure. But everything I have read seems to say it might be possible to recapture that feeling for brief durations.

The url I cited above strongly suggests altering your routine as much as possible. Bringing in new situations and new sensations.

From reading your posts Pheonix, I would say that maintaining your relationship is more important to you than just having a casual fling to feel some "lust". Thats an admirable quality in you and I will applaud you for it.

So what then is a solution for you? Well thats going to depend, but I think its going to hinge on obtaining your husband's cooperation to fan the flames.

If you take the time to talk with him and just ask, ask, don't demand, that he and you both make a concerted effort, it may be possible to get those flames to burn hotter. At issue here is if you can get him to open up to you concerning your sex life, and what you would both like to try.

From a man's point of view, any time a wife comes along and says "I want to improve our sex life", as long as you don't mean, "Damnit all, you've been doing it wrong!", he's gonna jump at the opportunity.

Unfortunately I can't say do this, or do that. I don't know either of you, your likes or dislikes. Try new things, what they are is up to you, but a really good source of inspiration can be found here on the boards and in the stories at Lit.

I will suggest that you stay away from anything online or offline involving other people. You have already played with that trap once and have nearly been caught by it. If your relationship is that important to you, and your tone suggests it is, then its simply not worth risking it.

 

[honestone]

Bob I think that you have it clinically nailed.

Pheonix, I have a similar situation but the opposite. I have a relationship that is significant and long lived (more than 30 yrs).

We have been around the block more than a few times and have tried to work through around and on top of our differances. We have come to this conclusion..... My wife is a highly passionate woman and she is also shy and inhibited. She came with baggage that damaged her self image and although I cannot "fix" her, I can feed her in a positive manner. The more I engage iin the act of building her up and relentlessly letting her know how much she means to me the more responsive she is becoming and the more heat there is in our relationship. I have to tell you it is hard for me to do this even though all of the things I do and say are the truth I sometimes feel that I have to force myself to say and do them. The hotter she gets the more thrilled and excited I become. This feeds the dominance in me.

The hardest part of this process is getting that I can not change the way she is. The only thing I can do is fully engage myself and allow her the space to come to the table herself.

Life is great and wonderous. Sometimes it's hot and sometimes it's not. That is called perspective.

Good loving !!! The thing that I know is that you care.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

"So what then is a solution for you? Well thats going to depend, but I think its going to hinge on obtaining your husband's cooperation to fan the flames...

Unfortunately I can't say do this, or do that. I don't know either of you, your likes or dislikes. Try new things, what they are is up to you, but a really good source of inspiration can be found here on the boards and in the stories at Lit.

I will suggest that you stay away from anything online or offline involving other people. You have already played with that trap once and have nearly been caught by it. If your relationship is that important to you, and your tone suggests it is, then its simply not worth risking it. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wish this was it but I suspect not, because I'm not sure we ever really had that lust thing going. Well, my husband did and does. I fell in love but can't exactly say I fell in lust. I chose love for my husband over lust for someone else - the guy I heard from after all these years just a few months ago. It hit me like a brick on the head the way I used to feel, the feelings I've missed for so long. The body has a mind of it's own:/ iykwim
I keep thinking if I examine those feelings, that I'll figure out how the other guy stayed in my, well, wherever you save lust, all those years. And how another guy online was able to hit that same lust button. It's not that our sexlife is boring, or that he didn't learn good skills (we started young) or that I don't get wet, etc. Arrrgh, this is really hard to talk about, especially knowing that my husband is likely to come looking at this sometime and these aren't things I want to say to him, not wanting to hurt his feelings but wanting to solve the problem more than i want to stay silent.

He's very cooperative, and while his tastes and prefs are pretty vanilla and sweetly romantic rather than intense (the online pics he looks at tend to be partially dressed women and people kissing, while my fantasies are dark and have me looking at bdsm sites, for instance, now that I've finally, after 23 years, started looking) he's been willing to try a few more hardcore things.

YOu are right that I care about him and don't want to mess this up. Until a few months ago, when I started sublimating online, I hadn't even flirted with anyone in at least 15 years (early on in our marriage I did some mild flirting but cut it out when it bothered him.) I've never done anything more serious than that. So, when this thing hit me, after 23 years, it was a real shock. And now, with ending the online relationship and cutting off online (and a little phone contact) with the ex-lover from before my marriage, it's all gone.

So I'm sifting through the mental pieces (df deleted the email) to figure out what pushed my buttons and how my husband can push them instead. Which was the original plan when the sublimating got started. I tried all sorts of things -- reading and writing stories, looking at pics, even chatroom cybersex once -- gave a stranger a cyber blowjob. Interesting but not ultimately fulfilling. And that was a far as it went. Never quite got to the point of having serious online sex with someone I knew. My ex and I got to the point of talking about some of the things we remembered that we'd done together. The online guy never quite made it to cybersex with me either. Learned a lot of things, among them, that for me to feel lust I have to have a fair amount of intimacy with a guy.

Since I don't have those emails anymore, I can only remember a few posts that really got to me and not the lead up to them. One was a great description of a devouring kiss. My husband is more a tender kisser and has a very short tongue. He knows I like deep kisses and works on it but it'll never be his natural bent.
Another post was just one that said, if I recall, 'suck me. Now.,' but I think it was the timing, that I was ready for it, as much as the command that got me so hot. And the surprise. And the flirting that had come before. I do have a subby part to me, though, so this one bears some looking into.
Another was written to someone else but written to get at me, sort of insinuating and tender, yet almost menacing, about how I was being tricked, how he would play me, learn my secrets, then written oh so evocatively of how he'd lick up the inside of her (my) thighs, ending with 'you know you want to....' So, a real game, a brain-fuck. If I can figure out one to play with my husband, I will.
Another was as series of images from the past from my ex, ending with one that was a little more of a shock, a kind of 'wish you were here, and what I'd do' if I remember right. So, maybe it was about the buildup, the mental images, then taking it to the edge a little. Something possibly useable there, too.

Probably the things that most moved me that my husband did when he figured out how deep I'd gotten myself in (unintentionally, and with him understanding that I Was trying to sublimate some lustful feelings online but not where they were coming from or me keeping him up like I should have with it) was that he read ALL of my messages, not only email but every single post he found. And a lot of it several times. He doesn't like to read much, other than books about tennis, so this really impressed me that he cares. And that he put my suitcase back in the garage.
It didn't take us longer than about a day to make up. All I could feel was how sad I'd be without him. His smile. I love the way he smells and tastes and he has the prettiest set I've ever seen -- I'd like to paint it. I know every inch of his body. He's a great dad and a funny guy. sigh
You have no idea how much I miss my passion though. It's not something that comes and goes, I never found both love and the kind of lust I'm talking about in the same package. It's something that rises up on it's own, or doesn't. So I want to figure out how to put it in, where it belongs. hmmm
Makes me sad just thinking about it. The sex is good and I love him. I just So miss that intensity and it felt so natural, such a part of me, like my body has been aching for it all these years. Like a piece of me is missing. does anybody understand this? (And is this a midlife crisis? I'm about to turn 45.)

 

[herecomestherain]

Phoenix Stone I think you are brave to so eloquently present your issue as you have and generous to allow it to be opened up as an exploration more widely.

One reason I'm hoping people will do that is that sometimes we stumble on to solutions accidentally when we're somewhere in the right general territory. Brainstorming can work wonders.

Here's a few thoughts not in any order of importance but as they came to mind over the last few hours, they are just opinions of course and I've tried to think about my own experiences and how they may relate:

Mid life does have a way of getting you to reflect on what is happening in your life and if you're happy with it. I think that it serves a valuable purpose, it's that kind of "How do I want the rest of my life to be?" Thinking time. It's also a good time to reinvent yourself into whoever you want to be for the next 40 years or so. I've personally chosen Sex Goddess/Sexual Adventurer for my next career.LOL There are quite a few vacancies and the position description sounds like heaps of fun!

"Squelching your libido" is a toughie, I'm probably up for more than he is...this is some weird little trick that happens to some women, you know, you get over being Mum, reinvent yourself,hit 40, mad rush of hormones and confidence, your gorgeous long time lover starts to slow down just a little (hey all you guys don't get offended I'm generalising okay...oh and personalising too) You get hyperalert, everything is sexy,all of a sudden you need to masturbate twice a day and you're still frisky by the time evening comes around, all the while thinking you've lost the plot or you've become obsessed!

Phoenix Stone wrote

I did play online -- and got myself in trouble, when I started getting confused, emotional, attached. On the other hand, I felt sensual and alive all day, in a way that felt like it was natural to me, that somehow I'd squelched in my marriage, to better fit my husband's style, and because he just doesn't respond well to flirting and teasing (acts disconcerted, jumps, gets silly or ticklish).

I believe that one of the very exciting elements of online play in the many forms it takes, is that it is intellectually stimulating. In his book "Love Online;Emotions on the Internet", Aaron Ben-Ze'ev talks about giving a lecture on emotional intelligence online -"what I argue is the combination between emotion and intelligence is much greater online than off-line because the relationship is based on conversation, which is an intellectual activity. Those who are more intelligent can seduce better."

Do we love to talk,are we good at talking, is it so unusual that we should find an online "talker" attractive? Do we all fall in love with Bobmi because he "listens" and can string a great post?What do we often complain is lacking in even good, loving longterm relationships? I'm not suggesting Phoenix that there is anything amiss in any way, shape or form in your marriage in this area, I'm just saying "talk" can be damned sexy. A "brain-fuck" indeed.

I could be way off and maybe possibly even projecting a little but I get a sense that you are still to forgive yourself completely for having indulged online? Could be something to think about.

Flirting can be fun. Possibly potentially "dangerous" but fun. Many partners probably reap the benefit of highly stimulated partners as a result of a little harmless flirtation. I'm not too sure where I am with the honesty side of that but it too could be worth thinking about. I don't know whether it's useful or even healthy to reveal every source of stimulation or every turn on you encounter in a day. Personal privacy is something I cherish. Seperateness and individuality are important to me.

In my experience unfulfilled desires can eventually make for dissatisfaction/resentment. Even so called darker desires deserve exploration. You know this thought..."If this person really loved me they'd know what I really want (even if I'm not 100% sure myself) they'd know that I want---------insert so called kinky item here and if they really loved me they wouldn't think I'm totally weird." Even so called gentle loving men have darker sides than we sometimes know and desires that they are scared to express too. The gentle ones always seem so uncomplicated. They can be complex souls too. I'm only just starting to discover this after 15 years of marriage!

I need to feel loved and enjoy affection in the knowledge that it is not necessarily a lead up to sex.

Before this post becomes a novel, I would like to recommend probably the best book I've ever read on this and related topics,"The Erotic Mind" by Jack Morin. A life changing book that goes into lots of detail about the nature of attraction, passion and sexual excitement. One of the ideas he explores is the notion of distance. That some distance is necessary for erotic enthusiasm to exist. To paraphrase; sparks can't fly when either there is too great a distance or if the "poles" continually touch.

A couple of other thoughts...sometimes I'm not sure if one other person can meet all my needs. Fantasy sometimes fills gaps. Passion is sometimes fueled by obstacles that need to be overcome.

Good luck Phoenix Stone, the folks around here are kind, my ramblings aside, I know of no other place where you could ask for help, discussion and exploration and have that request met with such genuine enthusiasm.

 

[Bobmi357]

I think you missed my point.

a) The grass always seems to be greener on the other side of the fence. (when its really just a trick done with lights and mirrors)

b) Love you can build a life on, lust dims and fades.

Think about it.

I don't mean to belittle your posting or your problem. But I think you're chasing an unobtainable fantasy that doesn't exist except in your mind. Even if you could restart that relationship, the lust doesn't last....

Life isn't a romance novel with heaving bosoms and dashing bodice-ripping men. A sad fact perhaps, but its true nonetheless.

 

[Bobmi357]

Do we love to talk,are we good at talking, is it so unusual that we should find an online "talker" attractive? Do we all fall in love with Bobmi because he "listens" and can string a great post?What do we often complain is lacking in even good, loving longterm relationships? I'm not suggesting Phoenix that there is anything amiss in any way, shape or form in your marriage in this area, I'm just saying "talk" can be damned sexy. A "brain-fuck" indeed.

ACK! You trying to get me in trouble? My wife reads these boards. I don't really need any more women in my life. Unlike some of the other guys here, I know my limits and have my hands full trying to keep one woman happy, let alone a bevvy of lit readers.

 

[herecomestherain]

Sorry...

Sorry Bobmi357 and Mrs Bobmi, absolutely no trouble intended! I perhaps shouldn't of mixed the posting to Lit process with the engaging in some kind of online experience in that example. I do enjoy your postings though! Don't agree with everything, but I do like civil debate.

I suppose what I'm trying to say that is Phoenix Stones' case it it not that surprising that an online experience should be so exciting at the time. In a sexual situation,when someone says exactly what you want to hear, in the "tone" you want to hear it in, it's going to be hot.

I get a feeling that there is a sense of mourning or loss over the online stuff that still has to be literally put to bed. Speaking of bed that's where I need to be...

I think that certain elements of lust can be regained if you felt them in the first place. I would definitely say we have a lusty relationship, it's always been so with a few technical glitches ( two sweet children) along the way.

 

[freddyandeddy]

There's a book called "Passionate Marriage," by David Snarch that I recommend ALL people in long term relationships/marriages read. It focuses more on realigning the mental processes responsible for passion and sexuality and has some amazing practical advice for getting there.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I think you missed my point.

a) The grass always seems to be greener on the other side of the fence. (when its really just a trick done with lights and mirrors)

b) Love you can build a life on, lust dims and fades.

Think about it.

I don't mean to belittle your posting or your problem. But I think you're chasing an unobtainable fantasy that doesn't exist except in your mind. Even if you could restart that relationship, the lust doesn't last....

Life isn't a romance novel with heaving bosoms and dashing bodice-ripping men. A sad fact perhaps, but its true nonetheless.

Hi, I think you missed my point, as well!

I recognize a.) and b.) which is why I originally picked love over lust. And while the fantasy may exist only in my mind, I'm betting that it's easier to put lust into a love relationship than vice versa. Thing is, restarting the relationship wouldn't work, as lust was never really a part of it. Passion yes, and I'd hoped over the years that we could build on that. Instead, when my attempts didn't work, I smothered that feeling, that urge, that sense of aliveness, bit by bit until I didn't even notice what I'd done. That is, until I got reminded and felt like 20+ years worth of lust all came to the surface at once. I'd laugh but it hurts to much. Especially as I managed to slam the door back on it again. I didn't even know I Could feel like that anymore, let alone that I'd been stifling it.
No, I don't want to live in a constant state of True Lust to go along with Love, just to get that kind of buzz once toward my husband, toward whom I feel passionate about would sustain me -- the way the memory of magic and first love floating still carries me now, still keeps me tied to him (along with all the work and deep friendship and understanding, of course.)

As for your last comment about life not being a romance novel, I don't mean to be obstreperous but... if 23 years of marriage, lived like a Girl Scout, doesn't suggest that I'm well aware of this fact, I'm not sure what would.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Phoenix Stone I think you are brave to so eloquently present your issue as you have and generous to allow it to be opened up as an exploration more widely.


Thank you Thank You thank you for your whole post, 'rain!!! Just reading the first few paragraphs this morning I already felt like I'd gotten some of myself back. It really helps to feel understood.

The following bit about losing the plot is terrific, it so feels like that.

"...and you're still frisky by the time evening comes around, all the while thinking you've lost the plot or you've become obsessed!"


"I believe that one of the very exciting elements of online play in the many forms it takes, is that it is intellectually stimulating. "what I argue is the combination between emotion and intelligence is much greater online than off-line because the relationship is based on conversation, which is an intellectual activity. Those who are more intelligent can seduce better."

All of the above, about the online stuff, is Exactly what I was feeling and thinking. My man is a doer and a visualizer, not a talker. I was 21 and he was 23 when we married, for so many reasons that still stand, including the most important ones -- that we both wanted a longterm relationship and were in love. He married me despite my being a talker. I'm not even sure I knew there were men who Liked to talk, lol. I think I'd rather my husband played with my brain than my body (at least until my brain catches up, if that makes sense.)

"I could be way off and maybe possibly even projecting a little but I get a sense that you are still to forgive yourself completely for having indulged online? Could be something to think about."

Definitely haven't. I went farther than I intended. Farther than I said I'd go, if I have to admit that to myself. Write sexual stuff in emails wasn't okay. I let myself fall into it, extricated myself but was wishy washy about it. Mostly because nothing else worked to get the lust going (and to get it away from focussing on my ex) and I was really trying to figure out what does it for me, so I can figure out a way to make it work between my spouse and me.

Everything you said was food for thought, and this is so true, over these many years: "The gentle ones always seem so uncomplicated. They can be complex souls too. I'm only just starting to discover this after 15 years of marriage!"

I'll definitely check out the book you recommended, and the one Freddy recommended, both of which sound very to the point. Thank you both!

"One of the ideas he explores is the notion of distance. That some distance is necessary for erotic enthusiasm to exist. To paraphrase; sparks can't fly when either there is too great a distance or if the "poles" continually touch."

I think my idea of trying daily sex was partly an attempt to bridge this gap.
My husband is a very private person, who can be by himself for long periods, lives in the present, seems very transparent, though he isn't, light, kind of a Dick Van Dyck tennis-pro type -- married to an angst-ing Seinfeld-ish, self-styled tragic romantic. Think one of us walked onto the wrong set? Anyway, he would find it easy to be distant, to come together just for sex and tennis. I could spend all day drinking coffee and solving the world's problems. lol. sigh

Thank you all for taking the time out to look under my personal rock with me. (It's not like I've got anywhere else to go with it:/)

 

[Phoenix Stone]

oops, I interspersed my responses between your quotes above. Still don't have the hang of that.

 

[herecomestherain]

Food for thought

Phoenix Stone, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad in any small way if I've provided an outsiders perspective. Sometimes just knowing you are not the only Seinfeldesque character on the set can be reassuring. I actually find it very useful to have a big wallow around in all those mucky uncomfortable feelings and thoughts for a while, churn them over, feel the angst they cause and then to try and move on to the next thing. Denial of those uncomfortable bits about ourselves just makes them linger longer and in me they tend to grow into strange proportions or bite me on the bum in the form of really strange dreams. Hate to say it but in some way these posts are a public wallow if you like.

I do believe there is something in the opposites attract notion, you've been married 23 years, could you have done this with another Seinfeldesque character? Imagine living with Woody Allen? In our house, not so much any more, but in the early years of our marriage we'd argue, I go in to high drama mode...my husband would do the "you're so emotional" routine, I'd fling my arms skyward "I'm allowed to be emotional, I'm Italian, we wrote operas for God's sake." Sometimes I don't want to live a steady life, I like drama, little peaks and troughs of passion and intensity with a few smooth plateaus in between. Terrible but the truth.

Distance for us seems to move in cycles, you know, you feel like ships in the night, not really even doing chit chat, getting further and further away for the detail of each others life, then I get all out of sorts, discontented, go seeking some level of connection, cross paths a bit more, affection and connection build, dinner, big catch up with each other,whammo lust emerges triumphant and back we go to being together until the cycle of distance slowly starts again. This cycle can be just a couple of days mostly. Hope that doesn't sound dismal because it's not, we have wonderful and highly satisfying marriage. What I'm trying to say is that I think the distance is useful. The trick is not to go too far away from each other for too great a length of time.

Good luck!

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Yes, I can identify with so much that you're saying again! I'm a bit of a drama queen (though I prefer to think of it as being intense and sensitive). My husband has said that the most important thing for him in a partner was not being bored -- so he got that in spades. (Always glad to please!)

There are lot of practical reasons why it's been harder this time around -- small children, work problems, etc. And it was Very lucky that we had our first date in about 6 months already planned the day just before we had our blowup around my personal cybering, so we were able to close some of that distance quickly when we needed to.

It just feels like there is more to it this time, either that midlife thing or... something that never got dealt with -- which I guess amounts to the same thing, as that's why we have midlife crises.
And I'm worrying it to bits because it's either that or start taking chocolate intravenously. Or find some way of closing my eyes and backing myself into trouble again -- which I don't want to do.
My sexuality is such a big part of who I am. For instance, a year ago, when I was still dormant, I took an evening class about doing the work you love, and during the intros we were supposed to give our first impressions of one another. The other two people in my minigroup were reserved looking business people. You should know I was wearing a dark boring work blazer, baggy pants, glasses, headband, no makeup. Very nerdy/intellectual, I thought. When the other two had to describe me, they both agreed, quite smugly I thought, that the first word that came to mind for me was Passionate. Sheesh. At the time I felt shocked, exposed, even angry. Thought I was in disguise. Now, I'd like to reclaim it, and don't quite know how.
Anyway, one thing I'm beginning to get from this board and thread -- and thank you all for this, it's really helping to clarify things -- is that I need to do more playing, more intellectual foreplay, more flirting and teasing and being teased to feel satisfied sexually. Last night I asked my husband to write more with me. We've played with this a little. It seems like a good direction to try.
I've noticed there are couples who respond to one another on these various threads and flirt here. Maybe that's next.

Anyway, thank you.

Anyone else reading this want to talk about your Putting the Lust back into Love needs?

Ive gotten a couple of PMs so I know there are people out there who are thinking about it. Am betting there are a fair number of us coming to these boards for that reason. (The other big categories seem to be youngsters who want to learn how, bored college kids, and lonely singles who aren't ready for rl dating.)