Question about punishment options for subs

[timberwolf05]

my online sub
-------------

you ARE kidding right?

on line?

oh c'mon
it aint even real

how are you going to make someone DO anything...*******?

 

[LunarKitten]

my online sub
-------------

you ARE kidding right?

on line?

oh c'mon
it aint even real

how are you going to make someone DO anything...*******?

I would think, like rl relationships, you would have to have trust in the other person to do what you tell them to do. Just because you can't spank them doesn't mean you can't have a D/s relationship with them, in my opinion.

 

[raven2]

I would think, like rl relationships, you would have to have trust in the other person to do what you tell them to do. Just because you can't spank them doesn't mean you can't have a D/s relationship with them, in my opinion.

That is the way I look at it. If you can't trust the person you don't have much of a relationship. If you have to be present all the time to make sure they are doing what you tell them and check up on them, it seems to me that you are insecure about your relationship.

 

[FurryFury]

my online sub
-------------

you ARE kidding right?

on line?

oh c'mon
it aint even real

how are you going to make someone DO anything...*******?

How sad that you and others have this attitude. "It ain't even real." It's just as real as the two people involved make it.

As secure and superior as you may feel making such a pronouncement because you can and do, have scenes in real life, that attitude is still a stinker. It's very condescending. You should know that. Since you've never participated in it a more reasonable attitude would be to either ignore it or learn about it.

I wouldn't put down people who do real life scenes or people who do online scenes. For some online seems to be the only option. I've done it and it's very real. There are real emotions and sensations involved regardless of if you choose to believe that.

He can "make" her do things online because she is submitting to him. She has handed over control to him and wants to do what he says because she wants to give that to him.

Fury

 

[shy slave]

That, unfortunately will have to stay between us. I am also sorry you feel that I did not have any genuine concerns for her welfare. Just because i did not mention it in the first post does not mean I wasn't worried about her.

Thank you Raven for taking time to explain that the orginal reason is private.

Its easy to make all aspects of our BDSM lives public on here.

As for my saying you did not have genuine concern for her, either I wrote my post badly or you misinterpretated my wording. Whichever, i was not implying you did not have concerns only that you had not mentioned them.
The difficulty with any post in a forum is covering all bases so people can see exactly where your thoughts are.

You don't have to justify whether you were worried about her to me or anyone, if I gave you that impression I apologise.

Now Timber wolf I won't apologise for this next bit.
Again and again I read your posts and wonder why you give the impression your way is the only way. I know everyone has an opinion about something, but your opinion always comes across, to me, as either negative or you have somehow found the keys to the Kingdom but your not willing to share. If you don't agree with online, please remember not everyone is like you.
We have discussed this in private and frankly I don't want to waste my time doing that again. I accept we are unlikely to ever agree. This is a free speech board but in a show of blunt honesty I would rather read Bytors posts than yours, as least he appears to have a sense of humour with his nasty posts.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

waits.........

 

[RJMasters]

my online sub
-------------

you ARE kidding right?

on line?

oh c'mon
it aint even real

how are you going to make someone DO anything...*******?

You know I was going to just pass over this and ignore it, but then changed my mind.

When I read Catalina's post earlier in this thread, I could at least nod and see how she makes a logical appeal about online relationships and how there are vailid concerns about issues of accountability. Being able to verify that things are infact being done. Some things are very obvious in that you can see if they are standing in the corner or not, however anyone would be hard pressed to prove it would be any different in RL or OL for a Dom to know if their submissive had broken orgasm denial. While a Dom is away at work, their RL submissive could have an orgasm and not tell just as easily as an OL submissive could.

When I look at your posting here, I read...."make someone DO anything..*******".

I then ask myself, what percentage of the time do you as a Dom in RL spend "MAKING" your submissive do things? I wonder honestly if you tell her to go to the store and buy food, if you have to physically drive her down there and force her to put things into the cart and make her check out and bring them home and put them away? I wonder if you tell your submissive to wear the black underwear today, if you infact have to go in there and MAKE her do that?

If you are "making" her obey you at every turn, then I question the sincerity of her submission to you.

I am not a big fan of forced submission, though I would agree that there is a time and place for everything(within consenting limits). I would be willing to bet however that the majority of any D/s relationship, is the submissive offering her obedience because she chooses to submit to someone in RL or OL. She does this not because she is forced or made to do it, but because she wants to offer it to that person who has earned their trust and respect.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

If indeed one required punishment, which btw doesn't work nearly as well as positive reinforcement, and the situation is online. I would think that a cretain period of withdrawal time might be in order. Not corner time for her which btw sounded rather enticing, but withdrawal of you presence, you dominance might have the hoped for effect. I don't have much experience with online relationships but can imagine this would work and no trust is involved for those who doubt.
Thank-you for listening.

 

[FurryFury]

If indeed one required punishment, which btw doesn't work nearly as well as positive reinforcement, and the situation is online. I would think that a cretain period of withdrawal time might be in order. Not corner time for her which btw sounded rather enticing, but withdrawal of you presence, you dominance might have the hoped for effect. I don't have much experience with online relationships but can imagine this would work and no trust is involved for those who doubt.
Thank-you for listening.

I see what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that if you don't have trust between the two of you, you have nothing at all.

Fury

 

[raven2]

You know I was going to just pass over this and ignore it, but then changed my mind.

When I read Catalina's post earlier in this thread, I could at least nod and see how she makes a logical appeal about online relationships and how there are vailid concerns about issues of accountability. Being able to verify that things are infact being done. Some things are very obvious in that you can see if they are standing in the corner or not, however anyone would be hard pressed to prove it would be any different in RL or OL for a Dom to know if their submissive had broken orgasm denial. While a Dom is away at work, their RL submissive could have an orgasm and not tell just as easily as an OL submissive could.

When I look at your posting here, I read...."make someone DO anything..*******".

I then ask myself, what percentage of the time do you as a Dom in RL spend "MAKING" your submissive do things? I wonder honestly if you tell her to go to the store and buy food, if you have to physically drive her down there and force her to put things into the cart and make her check out and bring them home and put them away? I wonder if you tell your submissive to wear the black underwear today, if you infact have to go in there and MAKE her do that?

If you are "making" her obey you at every turn, then I question the sincerity of her submission to you.

I am not a big fan of forced submission, though I would agree that there is a time and place for everything(within consenting limits). I would be willing to bet however that the majority of any D/s relationship, is the submissive offering her obedience because she chooses to submit to someone in RL or OL. She does this not because she is forced or made to do it, but because she wants to offer it to that person who has earned their trust and respect.

I must agree with you. I would never try to force anyone to do anything.. The act of submission and trust between the two, is what allows the relaionship to flourish.

 

[raven2]

If indeed one required punishment, which btw doesn't work nearly as well as positive reinforcement, and the situation is online. I would think that a cretain period of withdrawal time might be in order. Not corner time for her which btw sounded rather enticing, but withdrawal of you presence, you dominance might have the hoped for effect. I don't have much experience with online relationships but can imagine this would work and no trust is involved for those who doubt.
Thank-you for listening.

Thank-you BB. I agree with you in most (esp in Positive Reinforcement and in the no trust for doubters) but I feel withdrawal eliminates communication at a time when it is needed most and so I would prefer to do more face to face (so to speak) communicaton and correction.

:rose

 

[cati]

Raven..I too am guilty of not offering enough information in some of my posts. Perhaps I expect people to read between the lines..shrugs. Most of the time I just didn't want to go into the gory details of a situation. I would pose a general question and expected a general answer. Often I got more than I bargained for.

It's been a long time since my Dom and I were online and I missed those times believe it or not. If he did punish me for some minor infraction of the rules, he usually requested that I write an e-mail to him outlining my mis-behaviour. I was asked to ponder my submission to him in writing and what it meant to me. I disliked doing this just as much as I disliked writing a daily journal.
In RT I receive a lengthy lecture for small things and a genuine paddling with a 14 inch wooden paddle for big ones. One is just as painful as the other.

I suggested earlier that you might use the no-contact method, as it seemed to work for me. There was nothing worse than not hearing from him either by phone or online. You might find an article on the web on what it means to be a "good submissive" and ask that she read and write down her thoughts in an e-mail.

You wrote:
I'm not so sure about the no contact strategy, because I feel strongly that communication should be kept up in a relationship.

I agree that communication is definitely the key, but by not contacting her you are communicating your disappointment as well as the fact that she needs to be disciplined.

 

[raven2]

Raven..I too am guilty of not offering enough information in some of my posts. Perhaps I expect people to read between the lines..shrugs. Most of the time I just didn't want to go into the gory details of a situation. I would pose a general question and expected a general answer. Often I got more than I bargained for.

It's been a long time since my Dom and I were online and I missed those times believe it or not. If he did punish me for some minor infraction of the rules, he usually requested that I write an e-mail to him outlining my mis-behaviour. I was asked to ponder my submission to him in writing and what it meant to me. I disliked doing this just as much as I disliked writing a daily journal.
In RT I recieve a lengthy lecture for small things and a genuine paddling for big ones. One is just as painful as the other.

I suggested earlier that you might use the no-contact method, as it seemed to work for me. There was nothing worse than not hearing from him either by phone or online.

Yes, it is hard to make sure that people understand what you mean.
I was just asking what i thought was a simple question, but I think everything is cleared up now. I do appreciate all advice and will keep it and draw upon it for future reference.

 

[cati]

...hugs

 

[raven2]

...hugs

Back attcha.

BTW I like your signature.

 

[Richard49]

Last weekend I had punished my online sub for disobedience with orgasm denial. Tonight, because of I was very pleased with her, I lifted the ban and made arrangements to phone her so that I could have phone sex with her so she could cum (this is something she likes very much). When I called her at the appointed time. I got no answer. Half an hour later and 3 more tries, still no answer. My question is what type of punishment do you think this type of behavior deserves?

I have been told the worst punishment is to ignor them

 

[cati]

On being ignored.

Thanks kindly for the compliment sweet black bird.

I have to agree with Richard when he states that ignoring ones sub is a viable means of punishment. I have heard the same thing said by many, many subs here and in other forums. It seems that "ignoring" is an almost too easy and passive form of punishment.
My feelings on the subject...Ignoring someone is a form of emotional abuse and in my opinion a non-consensual act. At the same time I have to ask, are other forms of punishment considered non-consensual?
In this situation a Dom makes himself emotionally unavailable to his girl....depriving her of his affection and the attention that they so need and crave even if it is only for short time.
This form of punishment may be especially hurtful to those individuals who have suffered in a similar way in the hands of parents or caregivers when they were small children. I'll bet any money that a cord is struck deep inside the submissive, who in turn may feel a myriad of negative emotions... that they are unloved, emotionally abandoned or rejected by their partners.
Even the most loving Dominant may be unaware of the effect that this form of punishment may have on their sub. The sub in turn may wonder why this form of punishment is so hurtful... yet effective in curbing undesirable behaviour.

Granted, I may be talking out of my ass here.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I have been told the worst punishment is to ignor them

 

[raven2]

Thanks kindly for the compliment sweet black bird.

I have to agree with Richard when he states that ignoring ones sub is a viable means of punishment. I have heard the same thing said by many, many subs here and in other forums. It seems that "ignoring" is an almost too easy and passive form of punishment.
My feelings on the subject...Ignoring someone is a form of emotional abuse and in my opinion a non-consensual act. At the same time I have to ask, are other forms of punishment considered non-consensual?
In this situation a Dom makes himself emotionally unavailable to his girl....depriving her of his affection and the attention that they so need and crave even if it is only for short time.
This form of punishment may be especially hurtful to those individuals who have suffered in a similar way in the hands of parents or caregivers when they were small children. I'll bet any money that a cord is struck deep inside the submissive, who in turn may feel a myriad of negative emotions... that they are unloved, emotionally abandoned or rejected by their partners.
Even the most loving Dominant may be unaware of the effect that this form of punishment may have on their sub. The sub in turn may wonder why this form of punishment is so hurtful... yet effective in curbing undesirable behaviour.

Granted, I may be talking out of my ass here.

No, I don't think you are talking out of your ass. I agree that ignoring may be much more harmful to a relationship than other forms where communication exists. When communication exists there is a much better opportunity for both parties to understand why things did not go the way they should have. Less chance of really hurting someone through misunderstanding and ruining what might be a long and enjoyable relationship.

 

[cati]

Raven, I remember you saying that this not your ideal method of curbing your sub's behaviour and I respect you for that.
If I haven't mentioned it before, the Master and I are great supporters of online relationships, regardless of what anyone else says... online has it's place...it's called "the beginning"
See ya 'round the forum *s

 

[FurryFury]

No, I don't think you are talking out of your ass. I agree that ignoring may be much more harmful to a relationship than other forms where communication exists. When communication exists there is a much better opportunity for both parties to understand why things did not go the way they should have. Less chance of really hurting someone through misunderstanding and ruining what might be a long and enjoyable relationship.

I agree with you both.

Cati you have said a great deal there that I find to be intelligent and thoughtful on the subject.

Fury

 

[raven2]

I agree with you both.

Cati you have said a great deal there that I find to be intelligent and thoughtful on the subject.

Fury

And I agree also.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/rebecca000/040120_fire2.gif

Why on Earth would any Dominant/Domme intentionally destroy one of the most valuable tools we share in D/s relationships (online, real or the Bermuda Triangle for that matter ) and that is COMMUNICATION ?

Removing communication as a manner of punishment is both trite and destructive in every possible application I can think of. The word 'abuse' also certainly comes to mind , I feel very strongly about this.

Did Ya notice ........smiles​

 

[brioche]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/rebecca000/040120_fire2.gif

Why on Earth would any Dominant/Domme intentionally destroy one of the most valuable tools we share in D/s relationships (online, real or the Bermuda Triangle for that matter ) and that is COMMUNICATION ?

Removing communication as a manner of punishment is both trite and destructive in every possible application I can think of. The word 'abuse' also certainly comes to mind , I feel very strongly about this.

Did Ya notice ........smiles​

My mum always taught me that "the silent treatment" was immature and that there were more adult ways of solving problems, if one was willing to look for them. I've always agreed with that.

 

[cati]

A bit off topic

Thanks guys.

I have to ask myself why, when I'm annoyed with the big guy do I prefer to use the silent treatment. He always asks "whats wrong with you" and then I am forced to talk about it...argghhh.
Am I punishing him...no, punishing myself more than anything. This just my way of dealing with an uncomfortable situation and avoiding confrontation.
Hmmm... have to think about what I've just said here and what brioche said in her post.
Yanno, sometimes I just don't want to talk about what's bugging me and hope things clear up on their own. You know and I know that this doesn't work.
Yeah, I have a bit of a problem expressing anger, hurt and disappointment. I promise I will work on that...sigh.