Racial Fatigue?

[BotanyBoy]

I am a white man. I have been stopped and frisked by the police a number of times. They inspected packages I was carrying. It did not bother me. I hadn't been doing anything wrong. I did not have anything to worry about.

When this happens I behave respectfully. I move slowly. I keep my hands in sight.

I have also been followed and questioned by security guards. When this happens I ask, "Excuse me. Am I trespassing?" If they tell me I am, I apologize and leave.

If Trayvon Martin had acted that way when he was questioned by George Zimmerman he would still be alive. Instead he acted like the black ghetto thug he was, and attacked George Zimmerman from behind.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jPaFMIWelaM/UH2icGa5DjI/AAAAAAAAFAQ/PdVxMmRRoQg/s1600/113685686_iDontWantToLiveOnThisPlanetAnymoreLandscape_answer_2_xlarge.png

 

[The_Trouvere]

Off course it is. That's why you should keep that out of any political discussion. The social constructs people are in could always be overcome, it happened to white people like to asians like to orientals. There was a time when Arabs were more progressive than white European people.

You certainly have no right to tell me to keep out of any political discussion. I welcome honest disagreements documented by facts, however.

Racial differences have a durability that strongly indicates genetic causation. Orientals have low crime rates wherever they live, even when they are poor. Blacks always have high crime rates.

The superiority of the West over the Orient is a historical accident. Western supremacy was achieved by the scientific method which really began during the Italian Renaissance. While that was happening China was experiencing a xenophobic reaction from the Mongol conquest China had recently liberated herself from. The Chinese decided that they were the middle kingdom, surrounded by barbarians, from whom they had nothing to learn.

Right now the white West is in decline, largely because of the presence and immigration of inferior races. The Orient, which has the sense to keep the inferior races out, is in ascendancy.

The glories of Arab civilization are gone, never to return. The Arab world never recovered from the Mongol conquests of the thirteenth century. Moreover, the African slave trade contributed to the decline of the Arab race. Arabs castrated male slaves. They had children by female slaves. That is how Negro genes got into the Arab genome. Currently Europeans have an average IQ of 100. Arabs have an average of 85.

 

[The_Trouvere]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jPaFMIWelaM/UH2icGa5DjI/AAAAAAAAFAQ/PdVxMmRRoQg/s1600/113685686_iDontWantToLiveOnThisPlanetAnymoreLandscape_answer_2_xlarge.png

If that is the best you can do, I have won this debate. If there is a financial prize, please put it in a gift certificate.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I am a white man. I have been stopped and frisked by the police a number of times. They inspected packages I was carrying. It did not bother me. I hadn't been doing anything wrong. I did not have anything to worry about.

When this happens I behave respectfully. I move slowly. I keep my hands in sight.

I have also been followed and questioned by security guards. When this happens I ask, "Excuse me. Am I trespassing?" If they tell me I am, I apologize and leave.

If Trayvon Martin had acted that way when he was questioned by George Zimmerman he would still be alive. Instead he acted like the black ghetto thug he was, and attacked George Zimmerman from behind.

If Trayvon Martin had been armed he'd still be alive today as well.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The question is not if there are people who are jealous about other people. The question is: what's the reason they are better? Racism is if you make this a biological question.

The average IQ for the Ashkenazim is 115. The average for Orientals is 106. Those high averages can be explained by population pressures lasting for over a thousand years in each case.

If it is "racist" to point that out, then racism is true.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I told you much more about what I think what racism is than you told me what it is.

It seems like you can't imagine something like racism exists, though you're the best example.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it every generation with their performance and behavior. The discussion of black social pathology has been suppressed. Attitudes persist because black social pathology persists.

 

[The_Trouvere]

If Trayvon Martin had been armed he'd still be alive today as well.

In addition to attacking George Zimmerman from behind and beating him up, Trayvon Martin would have murdered him. Is this what you wish happened?

 

[Sean Renaud]

The average IQ for the Ashkenazim is 115. The average for Orientals is 106. Those high averages can be explained by population pressures lasting for over a thousand years in each case.

If it is "racist" to point that out, then racism is true.

Or you know, differences in culture and opportunity.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it every generation with their performance and behavior. The discussion of black social pathology has been suppressed. Attitudes persist because black social pathology persists.

Bullshit, for starters racism doesn't exist solely against blacks. And reinforce it with every generation? We're literally what? Two generations (depending on how you measure) from being legally held down.

In addition to attacking George Zimmerman from behind and beating him up, Trayvon Martin would have murdered him. Is this what you wish happened?

Isn't that the entire argument for why people carry weapons? I would prefer that both of them lived and Zimmerman hadn't created a dangerous scenario by effectively stalking someone in the dark, but I I don't see why stand your ground wouldn't work for . . .oh wait. I do. He's black and we aren't actually allowed to stand our ground.

 

[CandiCame]

Or you know, differences in culture and opportunity.



Bullshit, for starters racism doesn't exist solely against blacks. And reinforce it with every generation? We're literally what? Two generations (depending on how you measure) from being legally held down.



Isn't that the entire argument for why people carry weapons? I would prefer that both of them lived and Zimmerman hadn't created a dangerous scenario by effectively stalking someone in the dark, but I I don't see why stand your ground wouldn't work for . . .oh wait. I do. He's black and we aren't actually allowed to stand our ground.

Jesus Fucking Christ, are we quoting Toul now?

 

[PoppingTom]

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it every generation with their performance and behavior.

No no no, my dear, you are the racist, don't blame Blacks for your racism. And don't demand any change in a biological question. That's the point of racism.

I'm ready for discussions about solutions, not about race competitions. Fuck off with that.

 

[CandiCame]

No no no, my dear, you are the racist, don't blame Blacks for your racism. And don't demand any change in a biological question. That's the point of racism.

I'm ready for discussions about solutions, not about race competitions. Fuck off with that.

There's a race competition? Are we talking "who made out the best" or "Who's the most oppressed" or "Who has the most gold medals" or what? Because those are all very different competitions.

 

[badbabysitter]

from the Rationalwiki about the bell curve which The_(stuck in 1953)Trouve swears by...

Drawing on author Charles Murray's background in statistics and Richard Herrnstein's background in psychology, the book uses a variety of analyses of such factors as crime rate, pre-teen pregnancy and income in order to point to the success of what the authors call the "cognitive elite."[1] Such claims are already suspect, as many experts argue that the correlation between low performance on IQ tests and poverty is indeed causal, but it's the poverty that causes the poor IQ and not the other way around.[2] The book was also criticized for its selective use of research on education.[3]

According to the authors, the heritability of IQ is about 60%. This constitutes one of the foundations of their argument that society is becoming more stratified by intelligence and the "cognitive elite" is separating itself from the rest of society's rabble through (self-)selective breeding. In his review, philosopher Ned Block noted that Herrnstein and Murray conflated genetic determination with heritability. He also demonstrates that differences in a trait that is 100% heritable within a group may not be at all heritable between groups.[4] In spite of the large volumes of scientific literature establishing heritability of intelligence, none of the many attempts to find a predictive genetic correlation to intelligence have found any, except those genes known to cause learning disabilities[5]

The public furor over the book led the American Psychological Association to assemble a task force on the validity of intelligence testing. The APA reaffirmed the basic usefulness of IQ testing, but pointed out a number of shortcomings and limitations in the way it was used by Herrnstein and Murray.[6] One issue the APA review notes with using IQ testing is the "Flynn effect," in which IQ scores were found to have been rising over the 20th century by psychologist James Flynn.[7] This is a rather ironic criticism, as The Bell Curve actually coined the term "Flynn effect," though the authors claim that the effect merely represented rising IQ scores but not an increase in general intelligence ("g") and that the "real" average IQ of the American population was declining. This is despite the fact that the nature and cause(s) of the Flynn effect are still unknown and debated to this day.

Further tests of verbal ability have also challenged the book on this front in terms of its claims of increased "cognitive sorting."[8] In addition, the claims of "cognitive sorting" often commit one of the basic fallacies of eugenics: Conflating genotype and phenotype. The overarching thesis concerning the "cognitive elite" boils down to their deep concern that the smarties are being out-bred by the idiots. This was a perpetual claim of the eugenicists of the 19th and 20th centuries, most famously summed up in Cyril Kornbluth's short story "The Marching Morons" and recycled in the movie Idiocracy.[9]

Murray would later revisit this foreseen fate - a division between the elite and the rest - in his 2010 Coming Apart: The State of White America,[10] which argues that a vast cultural gap has appeared between wealthy and lower-class Caucasians, deriving in no small part from these groups' respective genetic inheritances.


Far more crankish, though, was the The Bell Curve's further conclusion in the third and fourth parts of the book that innate intelligence plays an important role in the different socioeconomic statuses of differing ethnic groups in the United States. Arguing that intelligence is inherited in large part, and that the average intelligence of different ethnic groups can thus be assessed, the book then concludes that different ethnic groups have varying levels of intelligence, and certain groups are poor or unfortunate mainly because they are not as smart as others.[1] (Many early, knee-jerk criticisms in the media latched onto this point without addressing the rest of the book.)

Further compounding the errors made earlier on, this section of the book rather clearly hearkened back to the long tradition of "scientific racism." Herrnstein and Murray here rely on the biologically invalid concept of race, building on their already shaky neo-eugenic foundation of the "cognitive elite." A Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) review noted:
“”Anyone who flipped through the footnotes and bibliography of Murray and Herrnstein's book could see that there was something screwy about their sources. And there is hardly a proposition in their book that had not been thoroughly debunked more than a decade ago by Stephen Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The Mismeasure of Man.[11][12]

A good deal of research cited in this section of the book was found to have been funded in part by the Pioneer Fund, which was infamous for its advocacy of eugenics.[13] There's really no subtlety to this. Notably, one of the sources cited favorably multiple times was J. Philippe Rushton, a psychologist who claimed "Mongoloids" were the more intelligent "race" (followed by the "Caucasoids" and then the "Negroids") and believed penis size to be inversely correlated with intelligence.[14] Herrnstein and Murray then took a page out of Thomas Malthus' playbook and used this "research" to call for the end of welfare programs that would cause the moochers, looters, and parasites to reproduce at an increasing rate.

 

[CandiCame]

from the Rationalwiki about the bell curve which The_(stuck in 1953)Trouve swears by...

Drawing on author Charles Murray's background in statistics and Richard Herrnstein's background in psychology, the book uses a variety of analyses of such factors as crime rate, pre-teen pregnancy and income in order to point to the success of what the authors call the "cognitive elite."[1] Such claims are already suspect, as many experts argue that the correlation between low performance on IQ tests and poverty is indeed causal, but it's the poverty that causes the poor IQ and not the other way around.[2] The book was also criticized for its selective use of research on education.[3]

According to the authors, the heritability of IQ is about 60%. This constitutes one of the foundations of their argument that society is becoming more stratified by intelligence and the "cognitive elite" is separating itself from the rest of society's rabble through (self-)selective breeding. In his review, philosopher Ned Block noted that Herrnstein and Murray conflated genetic determination with heritability. He also demonstrates that differences in a trait that is 100% heritable within a group may not be at all heritable between groups.[4] In spite of the large volumes of scientific literature establishing heritability of intelligence, none of the many attempts to find a predictive genetic correlation to intelligence have found any, except those genes known to cause learning disabilities[5]

The public furor over the book led the American Psychological Association to assemble a task force on the validity of intelligence testing. The APA reaffirmed the basic usefulness of IQ testing, but pointed out a number of shortcomings and limitations in the way it was used by Herrnstein and Murray.[6] One issue the APA review notes with using IQ testing is the "Flynn effect," in which IQ scores were found to have been rising over the 20th century by psychologist James Flynn.[7] This is a rather ironic criticism, as The Bell Curve actually coined the term "Flynn effect," though the authors claim that the effect merely represented rising IQ scores but not an increase in general intelligence ("g") and that the "real" average IQ of the American population was declining. This is despite the fact that the nature and cause(s) of the Flynn effect are still unknown and debated to this day.

Further tests of verbal ability have also challenged the book on this front in terms of its claims of increased "cognitive sorting."[8] In addition, the claims of "cognitive sorting" often commit one of the basic fallacies of eugenics: Conflating genotype and phenotype. The overarching thesis concerning the "cognitive elite" boils down to their deep concern that the smarties are being out-bred by the idiots. This was a perpetual claim of the eugenicists of the 19th and 20th centuries, most famously summed up in Cyril Kornbluth's short story "The Marching Morons" and recycled in the movie Idiocracy.[9]

Murray would later revisit this foreseen fate - a division between the elite and the rest - in his 2010 Coming Apart: The State of White America,[10] which argues that a vast cultural gap has appeared between wealthy and lower-class Caucasians, deriving in no small part from these groups' respective genetic inheritances.


Far more crankish, though, was the The Bell Curve's further conclusion in the third and fourth parts of the book that innate intelligence plays an important role in the different socioeconomic statuses of differing ethnic groups in the United States. Arguing that intelligence is inherited in large part, and that the average intelligence of different ethnic groups can thus be assessed, the book then concludes that different ethnic groups have varying levels of intelligence, and certain groups are poor or unfortunate mainly because they are not as smart as others.[1] (Many early, knee-jerk criticisms in the media latched onto this point without addressing the rest of the book.)

Further compounding the errors made earlier on, this section of the book rather clearly hearkened back to the long tradition of "scientific racism." Herrnstein and Murray here rely on the biologically invalid concept of race, building on their already shaky neo-eugenic foundation of the "cognitive elite." A Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) review noted:
“”Anyone who flipped through the footnotes and bibliography of Murray and Herrnstein's book could see that there was something screwy about their sources. And there is hardly a proposition in their book that had not been thoroughly debunked more than a decade ago by Stephen Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The Mismeasure of Man.[11][12]

A good deal of research cited in this section of the book was found to have been funded in part by the Pioneer Fund, which was infamous for its advocacy of eugenics.[13] There's really no subtlety to this. Notably, one of the sources cited favorably multiple times was J. Philippe Rushton, a psychologist who claimed "Mongoloids" were the more intelligent "race" (followed by the "Caucasoids" and then the "Negroids") and believed penis size to be inversely correlated with intelligence.[14] Herrnstein and Murray then took a page out of Thomas Malthus' playbook and used this "research" to call for the end of welfare programs that would cause the moochers, looters, and parasites to reproduce at an increasing rate.

The book was written before the IRB was formed and therefore wasn't peer reviewed. It doesn't need to be debunked. It debunked itself by not being reviewed.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

For whatever racist bullshit the Nazi shitstain here keeps returning to repeatedly floss because he's pressed that way, Madame Morrison will always have his number on target, for him and all his privileged shitstain ilk.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b0b5c52361a885283e056acd230f698/tumblr_n8cshb6Pmc1slblyeo1_1280.jpg

All that needs to be said.

 

[CandiCame]

I just choked myself and it's Truve's fault. I took a long drag and scrolled through and saw that he called people "Orientals" and it was very ill timed.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If that is the best you can do, I have won this debate. If there is a financial prize, please put it in a gift certificate.

There was no debate dip shit.....there was just you being racist as fuck and defending it like it was still 1950 thinking your derp will fly.

The average for Orientals is 106.

Furniture has an IQ now? Since when??

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

from the Rationalwiki about the bell curve which The_(stuck in 1953)Trouve swears by...

Drawing on author Charles Murray's background in statistics and Richard Herrnstein's background in psychology, the book uses a variety of analyses of such factors as crime rate, pre-teen pregnancy and income in order to point to the success of what the authors call the "cognitive elite."[1] Such claims are already suspect, as many experts argue that the correlation between low performance on IQ tests and poverty is indeed causal, but it's the poverty that causes the poor IQ and not the other way around.[2] The book was also criticized for its selective use of research on education.[3]

According to the authors, the heritability of IQ is about 60%. This constitutes one of the foundations of their argument that society is becoming more stratified by intelligence and the "cognitive elite" is separating itself from the rest of society's rabble through (self-)selective breeding. In his review, philosopher Ned Block noted that Herrnstein and Murray conflated genetic determination with heritability. He also demonstrates that differences in a trait that is 100% heritable within a group may not be at all heritable between groups.[4] In spite of the large volumes of scientific literature establishing heritability of intelligence, none of the many attempts to find a predictive genetic correlation to intelligence have found any, except those genes known to cause learning disabilities[5]

The public furor over the book led the American Psychological Association to assemble a task force on the validity of intelligence testing. The APA reaffirmed the basic usefulness of IQ testing, but pointed out a number of shortcomings and limitations in the way it was used by Herrnstein and Murray.[6] One issue the APA review notes with using IQ testing is the "Flynn effect," in which IQ scores were found to have been rising over the 20th century by psychologist James Flynn.[7] This is a rather ironic criticism, as The Bell Curve actually coined the term "Flynn effect," though the authors claim that the effect merely represented rising IQ scores but not an increase in general intelligence ("g") and that the "real" average IQ of the American population was declining. This is despite the fact that the nature and cause(s) of the Flynn effect are still unknown and debated to this day.

Further tests of verbal ability have also challenged the book on this front in terms of its claims of increased "cognitive sorting."[8] In addition, the claims of "cognitive sorting" often commit one of the basic fallacies of eugenics: Conflating genotype and phenotype. The overarching thesis concerning the "cognitive elite" boils down to their deep concern that the smarties are being out-bred by the idiots. This was a perpetual claim of the eugenicists of the 19th and 20th centuries, most famously summed up in Cyril Kornbluth's short story "The Marching Morons" and recycled in the movie Idiocracy.[9]

Murray would later revisit this foreseen fate - a division between the elite and the rest - in his 2010 Coming Apart: The State of White America,[10] which argues that a vast cultural gap has appeared between wealthy and lower-class Caucasians, deriving in no small part from these groups' respective genetic inheritances.


Far more crankish, though, was the The Bell Curve's further conclusion in the third and fourth parts of the book that innate intelligence plays an important role in the different socioeconomic statuses of differing ethnic groups in the United States. Arguing that intelligence is inherited in large part, and that the average intelligence of different ethnic groups can thus be assessed, the book then concludes that different ethnic groups have varying levels of intelligence, and certain groups are poor or unfortunate mainly because they are not as smart as others.[1] (Many early, knee-jerk criticisms in the media latched onto this point without addressing the rest of the book.)

Further compounding the errors made earlier on, this section of the book rather clearly hearkened back to the long tradition of "scientific racism." Herrnstein and Murray here rely on the biologically invalid concept of race, building on their already shaky neo-eugenic foundation of the "cognitive elite." A Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) review noted:
“”Anyone who flipped through the footnotes and bibliography of Murray and Herrnstein's book could see that there was something screwy about their sources. And there is hardly a proposition in their book that had not been thoroughly debunked more than a decade ago by Stephen Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The Mismeasure of Man.[11][12]

A good deal of research cited in this section of the book was found to have been funded in part by the Pioneer Fund, which was infamous for its advocacy of eugenics.[13] There's really no subtlety to this. Notably, one of the sources cited favorably multiple times was J. Philippe Rushton, a psychologist who claimed "Mongoloids" were the more intelligent "race" (followed by the "Caucasoids" and then the "Negroids") and believed penis size to be inversely correlated with intelligence.[14] Herrnstein and Murray then took a page out of Thomas Malthus' playbook and used this "research" to call for the end of welfare programs that would cause the moochers, looters, and parasites to reproduce at an increasing rate.

I read THE BELL CURVE twice and threw away my copy of the book. IQ has as much relevance with intelligence as height is relevant to basketball talent. 60% correlation is prolly high. Real intelligence is an aptitude for innovation and significant creativity, and that's how natural selection culls morons from the herd. Mental shufflers get eaten first. Asians haven't hatched a new idea in a 1000 years, Africans.....10,000 years.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8zoSEXIAAA-poS.jpg:large

You'd think shitstains would stand by their words and not be so chickenshit to delete them afterwards, but the internet is forever for those "racially fatigued."

#Fatigued
#SoFatigued
#PrivilegeIsFatigued

 

[unregistered]

 

[phrodeau]

In addition to attacking George Zimmerman from behind and beating him up, Trayvon Martin would have murdered him. Is this what you wish happened?

Maybe Trayvon would have shot to disable, not kill as George Zimmerman did.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

Maybe Trayvon would have shot to disable, not kill as George Zimmerman did.

Outside the movies shooting to disable is bloody stupid.

Maybe a unicorn might have intervened.

I'm not sure why Trayvon wouldn't have been perfectly in his rights to shoot a man who got out of a car and followed him anywhere. Where I grew up that looks like a mugging getting ready to happen.

The bitch of it ultimately that in a "civil" society (since you seem to like that word) both parties should do what they can to avoid violence. But once someone officially feels threatened it's a combat scenario and nothing resembling morality can be accurately applied.

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

Outside the movies shooting to disable is bloody stupid.

Only so far as shooting at all is stupid. Once you kill another person, regardless of the reason, you never get a peaceful night's sleep ever again.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

#ZumiIsTiredHisMessageFatigued

#LooksLikeVette'sPressed
#WhoIsTheThreadOPAgain?
#LivingLikeHeWantsAPairInsteadOfActuallyHavingThem
#CarryingAThreadWhereTheRacialNarrativeRunsAwayFromHimEveryDayIsSoFatiguing
#LastTimeVetteSawAnyRealFatiguesHeWasWearingThemInSoutheastAsiaTradingCannedCornForSexWithGirls

http://media.tumblr.com/94c3fa480aa7e94194b8f515152993b2/tumblr_inline_n05nm1HDel1srurt1.gif

 

[Littlefinger]

Okay, so, it is pretty clear that blacks in this country do not feel safe, they do not feel respected. There IS an issue, vette. Although I do not personally agree the Mike Brown case was an example of such treatment, I do not believe you'd have so many people all crying out the same message if the issue were fake. It's real. As a race, black people in this country feel threatened and mistreated.

However, I also understand that a lot of times, government instituted "fairness" doesn't actually make people feel like things are fair. Although it's ignorant of small girl to deny the existence of a problem while being a white woman in her 40's and somewhat successful, she does bring up the point that it does not foster a sense of respect to watch someone be handed rights and dignities based on their skin color rather than merit. Two wrongs don't make a right and I don't believe in continuing to foster animosity with a "do unto you what you did to me, see how you like it" attitude.

I admit there's a lot I don't know. I'm not black. I've not grown up with that struggle. How do we achieve peace? How do we encourage respect for people and unite everyone? Because even with the system in place to give blacks an even playing field, it's not enough. The tension is growing on both sides of the fence, as shown by the protests during the past few months. I genuinely would like to hear people's thoughts on how we might heal relations. Quit denying that there is an issue. There is, so, I don't want to hear that. Just turn on the fucking news and quit telling people to "get over it" like a callous prick. How do we unite and heal people and relationships between the races that have been wounded and hurt to this point? Where do we go from here?

Thank you, Trouv. Anyone else? Solutions? Actual discussion minus ad hominem? Sean R, I'd like to hear what you think.