Religious difficulties

[Ms_Lilith]

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[SweetBrat73]

Re: Reply to SChoolteacher

You wrote that I should admit that, under my religion what I"m doing is wrong, and that I should just go and confess. It's not that easy. I've been to confession many times before, but there are two MAJOR things about confession that have to stop me now:
1) You must truly be sorry for what you've done
2) You must have the intention to stop what you're doing that is wrong.

Told ya so!!!


vixenshe...I wish there was something I could do or say to you to make you feel better...but you and God will have to work that one out on your own...I will ya all the best of luck hon!!!


Brat

 

[sigh]

i was raised catholic but am not much of a follower these days...i find the whole notion of cafeteria catholicism that most american catholics practice unappealing...or at least my logical sense of the world won't allow for it

that said, it always distresses me to see the ultra-ignorant bad-mouth and bash catholics...

for instance, are there boy-molesting priests? sure there are, just like there are doctors, nurses and pharmacists who abuse drugs, but the percentage of priests who abuse and the percentage of pharmacists who toke are about the same as society in general...we are all human, after all, and share the same weaknesses

and then there's the other prevailing theme that catholic priests somehow make money off every sacrament they perform...well you know, i went to communion hundreds of times in my youth and never once did i pay for it...not once...and praying for the dead? tell me, todd...how exactly does the church make money off of that? my mom still does it and she doesn't pay a cent

sorry to burst your bubble, todd, but most priests i know don't have enough money to buy a decent bottle of wine for their dinner table, and the sisters are even poorer

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't know... I guess my basic question is this: Has anyone else out there struggled between their religion and their sexuality? If so, please shout out, it'd be nice to know that there are people out there who understand.

You're not alone. I went through a "crisis of faith" when I was about 21. In my case, it was my experiences in Vietnam that triggered it, but the trigger really doesn't matter -- the conflict between what you instinctively believe, and what you've been taught has come to the fore and needs to be resolved.

Rand McNally tells me there are four Provinicial Parks within 30 miles of Victoria, BC. I don't know what those parks are like, but I do know what the forests in that part of the country (Oregon, Washington) are like. I found that God doesn't live in fancy buildings -- He lives out in the beatiful things He created.

At least that's where I found Him -- in a stand of rain misted Douglas Firs shafted by rays of sunlight at dawn.

I've since found him in the dark and quiet starkness of a desert night, far from the obvious intrusions of man into His perfection.

I can't promise that you will find him in one of those provincial parks, but you've got a better chance than you do amidst the noise and bustle of a city -- or worse yet, inside of a church in a city.

Spring is just over 11 hours away, and I can't think of a better time or place to find your true faith than in the quiet beauty of a Pacific Northwestern forest in the springtime.

 

[sigh]

harold, has anyone ever told you you're a pretty cool guy?

if not, let me be the first...

 

[freescorfr]

i was raised catholic but am not much of a follower these days...i find the whole notion of cafeteria catholicism that most american catholics practice unappealing...or at least my logical sense of the world won't allow for it

that said, it always distresses me to see the ultra-ignorant bad-mouth and bash catholics...



...and praying for the dead? tell me, todd...how exactly does the church make money off of that? my mom still does it and she doesn't pay a cent

sorry to burst your bubble, todd, but most priests i know don't have enough money to buy a decent bottle of wine for their dinner table, and the sisters are even poorer

Yes sigh, I know some priests who are geniune saints. The charge against the Church and parying for the dead is not so much that there is a charge for praying for the dead, but that in the middle ages the scandal of indulgences has left so many scars that even centuries on.

Indulgences

In the times of the crusades – c. 13C – the Pope at the time had the simple idea that if the faithful contributed something to the war effort then this would be a positive sign of contrition.

It worked like this. When you commit a sin, even after it is forgiven, there remains a debt to be paid. The bigger the sin, the bigger the debt.

When you commit a sin either it is a mortal sin – which means eternity in Hell – or a venial sin, which means a period in Purgatory. Purgatory is as painful a torture as Hell, except it is not for ever.
If you confess all your sins and receive absolution, you will go to heaven, only after a period of Purgatory.

Now the Pope, to whom God had revealed a few tips on marketing, decided that he would issue indulgences which gave a remission from fixed periods of time in Purgatory, 5 years, 10 years and so on… Purgatory being temporal, unlike hell which is permanent. These were not bought but issued and lay folk made a contribution.

Now like all products you have to improve them after a bit, so eventually a later pope thought up the idea of the Plenary Indulgence. Jackpot!! This one didn’t get you off simply a number of years in Purgatory – it got you off the lot. Get a Plenary Indulgence, die before you sin again and you go straight to heaven, no questions asked on the way. You don’t just buy the Indulgence, of course, you confess, get your absolution and give a decent contribution for the indulgence.

You can imagine how that went down with monarchs who had killed their brothers for the throne, merchants who had cheated their way to success, rich women hiding a silent guilt that their child wasn’t their husband’s – there was a fortune to be made.
Furthermore, such people did not change their ways as a result of buying the indulgence, the sinned again – and again. It was a gold mine.


Then it was the Renaissance and Michaelangelo and the rest had to be paid. St. Peter’s was not cheap. So the Pope had another brilliant idea – another product. The market for indulgences and plenary indulgences was saturated, but he decided you could buy – and by this time it had become a trade in indulgences – indulgences for you granny who had died, or your son, killed in a duel. These sold well and the tourist attraction in Rome remains.

Hence Todd’s comment about paying for praying for the dead.

 

[Weird Harold]

harold, has anyone ever told you you're a pretty cool guy?

One or two people, but I try not to give too much consideration to the obviously insane. (I'm modest too.)

It did take me a couple of days to find the right way to say what I wanted to on this topic. I'm usually a bit faster with the answers.

 

[sigh]

yes, freescorfr, i know the history of the church and it's not always a proud one, but the church of the middle ages is not the church of today

then again, i'm obviously not too attuned to the church of today either since i no longer practice, so go figure...usually i don't react so sharply but for a self-proclaimed religious man todd has a nasty habit of hate-mongering at times...gets under my skin is all...one person he was putting down is my mother and i take offense to that...she happens to be a pretty wonderful woman

i'll refrain from more outbursts...time to chant my mantras anyway

 

[SweetBrat73]

harold, has anyone ever told you you're a pretty cool guy?

if not, let me be the first...

I just wanted to say ditto to that


Brat

 

[sch00lteacher]

SweetBrat73, I want to apologize for that last post of mine, I went a bit over the top. I didn't mean to attack you so strongly.

You know I count you among the few friends I have here, and I should not have treated you that way. So I want to make this public apology.

Carry on kid.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

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