Remember The Words Of Joe Biden In 2019

[ll74]

Believe it or not, reality does exist, and it not kind to the port-side view of the world:

The United States on Friday pulled out of the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty to develop its own new missiles after the Russians refused to destroy their new missiles NATO says violate the pact.

“Russia failed to return to full and verified compliance through the destruction of its noncompliant missile system, the SSC-8 or 9M729 ground-launched, intermediate-range cruise missile,” said Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. “Russia is solely responsible for the treaty’s demise.”

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_us-leaves-inf-treaty-says-russia-solely-responsible/6173090.html

Let me know if you acknowledge it.

A country failing to meet it's obligations is not reason to eliminate the policy....it's a reason to better enforce it

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Let me know if you acknowledge it.

A country failing to meet it's obligations is not reason to eliminate the policy....it's a reason to better enforce it

Brilliant....and how do you propose we do that?

Let's just stipulate here that your contention that leaving INF was "going soft on Putin." That is false...it's the opposite. In practice, the treaty only bound us, not Russia, so leaving it allowed us to counter Russia, not capitulate to them.

 

[ll74]

Brilliant....and how do you propose we do that?

Let's just stipulate here that your contention that leaving INF was "going soft on Putin." That is false...it's the opposite. In practice, the treaty only bound us, not Russia, so leaving it allowed us to counter Russia, not capitulate to them.

So your answer is that it's too hard?

 

[Bud_Spencer]

So your answer is that it's too hard?

I'm asking you how we hold them to it? Do we go destroy the missiles ourselves?

 

[ll74]

I'm asking you how we hold them to it? Do we go destroy the missiles ourselves?

My position is not that I know answers to all the problems of enforcement. My position is that the treaties are worth being a part of and working to improve.

I'm sorry that you would prefer to just duke it out on the playground to settle your grievances.

Certainly leaving a treaty worth having only leads to more instability on the world stage, which is bad for everyone

 

[Bud_Spencer]

My position is not that I know answers to all the problems of enforcement. My position is that the treaties are worth being a part of and working to improve.

I'm sorry that you would prefer to just duke it out on the playground to settle your grievances.

Certainly leaving a treaty worth having only leads to more instability on the world stage, which is bad for everyone

I'll help you out here: There is no way to "better enforce" the INF because there is no international cop to sic on the Russians, no court to adjudacate the dispute and no way to enforce any judgement against them short of war. The threat for non-compliance is that the other party will also stop complying, and thus make the treaty moot.

Treaties may be good, they may be bad. If they bind both parties, they're likely to be good. If they ae cynically used to "freeze" one party while the other proceeds apace, they are bad. The latter is what happened here, and Trump was right to pull out. It's the polar opposite of giving Putin a pass.

 

[ll74]

I'll help you out here: There is no way to "better enforce" the INF because there is no international cop to sic on the Russians, no court to adjudacate the dispute and no way to enforce any judgement against them short of war. The threat for non-compliance is that the other party will also stop complying, and thus make the treaty moot.

Treaties may be good, they may be bad. If they bind both parties, they're likely to be good. If they ae cynically used to "freeze" one party while the other proceeds apace, they are bad. The latter is what happened here, and Trump was right to pull out. It's the polar opposite of giving Putin a pass.

You'll never help me out with anything. You believe diplomacy is a wasted effort and that strength is the only deterrent and we'll never see eye to eye on that. I also believe that the only way forward to better.global stability, a staple of strong capitalist markets, is through strengthening of global diplomatic channels.

Trump was never right to withdraw from any of the agreements he chose to do so on.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

You'll never help me out with anything. You believe diplomacy is a wasted effort and that strength is the only deterrent and we'll never see eye to eye on that. I also believe that the only way forward to better.global stability, a staple of strong capitalist markets, is through strengthening of global diplomatic channels.

Trump was never right to withdraw from any of the agreements he chose to do so on.

Diplomacy is only as good as the force to back it up. Period. In domestic affairs, negotiations are backed up with the power of the State to enforce legal contracts. Parties have a strong incentive to comply with what they have agreed to lest they be dragged into court and wind up making their deal partner(s) whole, plus court costs, plus possible punitive sanction. And courts have the ability to compel compliance.

No such mechanism exists in international affairs. Short of war, the aggrieved party's only recourse is non-compliance on par with the violative party's non-compliance. Diplomacy is wondeful, but not an end in itself. If one's foe never complies with the agreements it makes, you're just a sap for continuing to adhere to a one-sided agreement.

 

[ll74]

Diplomacy is only as good as the force to back it up. Period. In domestic affairs, negotiations are backed up with the power of the State to enforce legal contracts. Parties have a strong incentive to comply with what they have agreed to lest they be dragged into court and wind up making their deal partner(s) whole, plus court costs, plus possible punitive sanction. And courts have the ability to compel compliance.

No such mechanism exists in international affairs. Short of war, the aggrieved party's only recourse is non-compliance on par with the violative party's non-compliance. Diplomacy is wondeful, but not an end in itself. If one's foe never complies with the agreements it makes, you're just a sap for continuing to adhere to a one-sided agreement.

Diplomacy takes time effort and fortitude. Patience as well. There will always be times where one party pushes the boundaries....we should always stay the course.

Good international diplomacy takes investment and allies. The US has always led that effort and will continue to do so, because we should.

Have fun on the playground.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Diplomacy takes time effort and fortitude. Patience as well. There will always be times where one party pushes the boundaries....we should always stay the course.

Good international diplomacy takes investment and allies. The US has always led that effort and will continue to do so, because we should.

Have fun on the playground.

An odd closing, given how child-like your view of international diplomacy is.

Answer me this: What's to keep anyone from violating the terms of a treaty? Any treaty?

 

[ll74]

An odd closing, given how child-like your view of international diplomacy is.

Answer me this: What's to keep anyone from violating the terms of a treaty? Any treaty?

Tell us all you don't understand diplomacy without saying you don't understand diplomacy

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Tell us all you don't understand diplomacy without saying you don't understand diplomacy

I have an MA in International Affairs with specific training in diplomacy and negotiation from a 33 year vertan of the State Dept.

 

[Rotadom]

I have an MA in International Affairs with specific training in diplomacy and negotiation from a 33 year vertan of the State Dept.

No, you don't.

 

[ll74]

I have an MA in International Affairs with specific training in diplomacy and negotiation from a 33 year vertan of the State Dept.

Of course you do. And I care also.

 

[Rightguide]

He's getting it from TownHall.

So, Are those quotes inaccurate?

 

[Bud_Spencer]

No, you don't.

His name was R. Clayton Mudd. Most of his experience was in the Balkans, but also in the Middle East. A good instructor, too.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Of course you do. And I care also.

Just add this to the pile of things you're wrong about.

 

[ll74]

Just add this to the pile of things you're wrong about.

Whatever makes you feel good.

You learning that you can't enforce international diplomacy so it's not worth doing international diplomacy is probably engraved on your certificate of completion

 

[slutindianwife]

lol
and u threw Trump out!

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Whatever makes you feel good.

You learning that you can't enforce international diplomacy so it's not worth doing international diplomacy is probably engraved on your certificate of completion

Remember that you said all that, not me. I wa reasonable and logical, you spun off into fantasy and falsehood.

 

[ll74]

I can see it now
"Honey, I got my MA in international studies!

Wife: what will you use it for?

bud: mostly to argue about CRT online and at school board meetings

Wife: we're rich!"

 

[ll74]

Remember that you said all that, not me. I wa reasonable and logical, you spun off into fantasy and falsehood.

Whatever makes you feel good.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

I can see it now
"Honey, I got my MA in international studies!

Wife: what will you use it for?

bud: mostly to argue about CRT online and at school board meetings

Wife: we're rich!"

You take your L's like a real pussy.

 

[ll74]

You take your L's like a real pussy.

You take victory laps as if you won something.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

You take your L's like a real pussy.

You're a pussy who gets caught in fuckloads of lies, Dud. And 74 is right, of all the accomplishments "you" have accomplished (lol) you spend your days and nights here arguing about shit that is totally out of your control. It just proves that you're a lying little bitch of an oxygen thief.

Dud's them song

Probably 'cause I gotta tell myself another lie
'Cause that's what helps to get me by
'Cause I'm in Hell
This is my goodbye, farewell